Colour Schemes & where to draw inspiration from

Mini matters, a mini chat painting podcast. Booyakasha. I think I nailed that intro on the timing of the record. But like, when I hit did I hit record? Yeah, when I hit record and when I clicked the audio. Welcome everyone. Episode 5 are now. Yeah. Hello, Martin. Hello. And myself, Jamie Huppa, I gave more importance. I, I subconsciously added my surname there to make me seem more important than these two guys, which is interesting.

I think I didn't introduce you with your surnames. I belittled you in a way. No, no, that's fine. That's fine. I. I'm sure my name, yeah. Yeah, I'm OK with first names. We don't want to end up in like a kind of sports team situation where we're just the last name. Well, I I actually commonly coined myself Hubba. In fact, my website is. Hubba yeah, I know that's. True, and that's true. I'm doing that unless I keep doing it. So we have a bloody good show planned, actually bloody good show. So what you don't know is we don't we in the week, right? I message her now and they're like, look, we need to plan the week, the episode and they are now. It's like, look, I don't, I just want to turn up. I'm not fucking fussed and I'm like, whoa, oh, now. I don't.

Yeah. And I'm like, can we just please just spend a little bit of time planning the show? And he's like, look, Jay, too much to do. I just, it's beneath me, he says. And it's tough. It's tough running the show by myself, I'll be honest. But yeah. I hope. I hope someday people learn to to understand Jamie. It's convincing, though, I hope I don't want to admit I'm gonna. Have to predict you. Yeah. The stuff that you makes up, the stuff that you make up about are now, it's not like it's not things that no person would do. So, so, so it's not obviously made-up. That's why.

The last, the last few days I I made the decision that it's changing our relationship and my life, which is I'm not going to contradict anything that Jamie says. I think that's healthy. I don't think that I think that's a terrible idea. I think you're going to get in hot water. So basically I I guess you know. We already are. We already are. I guess this is you're alluding to Arnow and I had a rather entertaining Miss Miss Misjudgment in So I don't know how to for weeks. Arnow and I were on a different page, OK? And this isn't about the podcast. It's about a piece of artwork that Mister Arnow Lathov bought OK, and he bought a piece of artwork from an artist, right? And he he he shared a message in the in a WhatsApp GroupMe ABBA and are now and he was like, oh, I think it'll get in this piece of artwork.

And I was like, oh, fuck. And he was he was like from Karl Kopinski, right, the legend, the myth, And I was like, oh, crap, from Tara, right. And he said no from a pilot you. Didn't. That's not how it went. You're changing it. Let me, let me. Let me, let me. I'll finish mine quickly then. Right? OK. OK. And then you. Would come in with two whole versions of the whole story then. So, so I was like, OK, so he's buying it from some dodgy guy. And I was like, like, do you really? Is it safe to buy from him?

And and I was like, it's like, it's fine. And I was like, I don't know if that's true, but all right, fine. And are you? I was like, you sure it's not from Tara? It's like he was like, no, some Greek like pirate guy, like it's not a big deal. And I was like, yeah, that's annoying because I quite wanted to, I quite wanted to buy some more artwork. I haven't got any money really. But you know, if there's a cheeky elder artwork, I'm going to. So but he was like, it's a part. I was like, Oh yeah, I don't really want to risk. And he, and he hasn't got any other work because he's only got these pieces of work, right? These like 3 pieces or whatever it was one piece. So that was it.

And then and then like every week would go by and I'd keep asking right now I'd be like, is it from Tara? Right. And he'd just ignore it completely ignore it and tell, OK, well, that's, that's the story. And then we can get to how we unravelled what went wrong and now this is our now side of it I guess. You know what? What's scary is that I'm sure that in your head that's that's real. That's more, more or less what happened. It's not, it's not a lie. It's just delusion. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, no, no, this is not my fault. On this one I I think you hold because he didn't respond anyway. Go on, go on.

You 2 of yours are now you could view us. So I, I, I said that that I, I wanted to buy the artwork. And then you said is that is that Tara? And I said, no, I think that's a pirate because I was joking saying, because joking like you are saying that the pirate is Tara and. We should allude to the fact actually that the the artwork is a pirate, OK? Yeah, the artwork is a pirate. Now I didn't realize it was a pirate and also he said. It doesn't matter. OK, well, well, it does matter a little bit, but it's clearly obvious. A pirate like there's, there's nothing else he could be. We will share the artwork in this in the It's a pirate. Have you seen it now on?

I have seen it in fact, ha. It is a pirate in like, there's absolutely no doubt about it. And then I said, no, it's, I think it's a pirate. I think Kopinsky can do better or something like that. Or no, no, I'm sure Kobinski just. Goes it's from a pirate, it's it's a pirate issue or something like that. He's I literally don't. I literally think you said I said is it Tara and you said a pirate or something. I don't mean you said it's a pirate in Italy. I I mean, look, I could read it to you.

I. No, no, no, because we can't. We can't. We can't do. We're learning from last week. We don't want to do stuff that. Oh, I suppose you could look it up while I talk. Martin, have you worked out what's gone on yet? No, definitely not. I'm, I'm hoping that our listeners are enjoying this, this spinning of a young, Yeah, this segment. Yes. So I, I what what is the word here? Tara, Tara. Tara. What is that? Tara, Tara. OK, I'll, I'll, I'll sum it up because you might be right. This might be it's. A person or a miniature. It's a person. Now this person sells artwork for Kapinski. It happens to just be his wife, basically a really, really nice, I've been talking to her for like 6 years, seven years or something, right.

And, and Arnaut was like, I'm buying from Popinski. And I was like, oh, from Tara. And then he said it's a pirate. And I assumed he was buying from a pirate cause 'cause it made sense. And then, and then I think he sent a link, right? And it had and, and the link preview had a like an old like Greek looking guy. It turns out he's actually 1 of Kopinski's artworks Anyway, so but so I assumed he was buying from the thing. I mean, we've probably not done this as much. We we, it might have been a case if you had to be there to find it funny. But for weeks now our now and I have been, I've been like, and I've kept asking him.

I'm like, is it from Tara? And he's just ignored it and it turns out he just thought I was talking about random girls names. That's fair. What? What would you do with the information, James, if it was from Tara, like what I would have? Just messaged her and gone oh you're back selling because she wasn't selling for a while. Oh, OK, so you were curious because you are also in the art in the art by. Attention. OK, potentially, yeah, I don't know necessarily if I can afford anything. So that is that is, yeah, I guess it was less entertaining than we hoped, but. Yeah, no, it's fine. We just we needed to.

So where we are now in the story is how you guys reconcile. So I understanding and are now also has the receipts. Yeah, I have the receipts and I'll, I'll, I'll give you the full truth about it. So I, I sent a link first. The first thing I did I know was send the picture, the picture of the of the piece the pirate. The pirate right, which I didn't know was a pirate just just for the. Record. I mean, it has it has a sword, it has I as. I said I thought it was an Empire bloke. So I have the the the text here and I'll let you judge that, Martin.

First thing, what was, what is Martin trying to judge here? If I'm right, or you're right, or there's no right or wrong, well. No, I'm trying to find facts. The facts, yeah. Yeah. What the facts are. There was a great factor. You're wrong. No, no. Go on. Sorry. No. You were you. Were you were pretty sure that Arnaud was buying artwork from a pirate? Which makes total sense, No. And then you were trying to. Figure out not a real pirate. I thought it was like a colloquialism, Like a He's explaining that he's buying it from some dodgy bloke basically. The best thing is that it's a Greek pirate and I've never in the conversation ever said the word Greek or nothing related to Greece or anything. So Greek, you said Greek pirate.

I'm yeah, I got, I got like talk on that, if I'm honest. So I think there's definitely something there that we're trying to, we're trying to get to the bottom of. Are there in fact Greek pirates selling Karkinsky artwork or is it just his wife? That's that's I send. I send a picture of the artwork and then Jamie said how did you find it? How much and why? All good questions. And then I said Facebook, he's selling now. Right, knowing that he doesn't sell, knowing that he he would never sell right.

This is key information, she said. He so he's already he's already like left me thinking, Oh, so he's not buying from tar. He go carry on carry. On you cannot justify. You cannot I, I I didn't justify your version. He didn't justify. That even in just saying that's true, that's true. Like lying motherfucker. Yeah, OK. So I said the price, etcetera. And then you said out of the blue his wife, but you didn't say anything else before. So you just said his wife, right? And I said nothing. I think it's a pirate dude.

Like surely his wife is nicer. And then you took that as a serious answer and you said, I see, I don't know how nice this dude was. Then here obviously I start to not understand what's happening. So I just kept going and I sent the link to Cal Kopinski's page, which I know you didn't check. It's better than I thought. And then and then I said, he's selling those. There's a few I would instantly buy, but I'm touching Hoboness if I do.

And that was that was the official Cal Kopinski's Facebook. And then, then that doesn't matter the next few weeks. But I asked what I asked twice between then I did. I did I, I think I even just brought it up in the last time. You're asking at that time was just saying, is it from Tara, his wife? No, no, he didn't say Tara. He he said. Is this his wife? OK. OK. All right, interesting.

And then I said. For buying from his wife. And jokingly, I said no, that's a pirate. Yeah. And he took it like I was selling it from a buying it from a Greek pirate. Dude, what the fuck? That's totally. And I understood this like yesterday, I think it was or two days ago. We had a, we had a. Why did it come up again? We had a, we had an amusing. Albert literally pissed himself, I think. And it all came about because. Because I received the artwork.

Aha, yes, and he said. You realize the artwork, right? Yeah, you realize that I was actually buying from. Well, I, I think I was originally surprised that it it actually arrived and you weren't scammed by the pirate basically, because obviously, Yeah, so right what you're saying. I mean. Well, I I I see where the confusion is definitely. No, no, the confusion is clear, yeah, but he feels a lot of gaps. I will. I will say that the thinking referring to someone who sells pirated artwork as a pirate is a little far fetched, but not. Completely.

I'm laughing too loud or my audio's fucking up, but yes. I mean, because that's what it is. Someone sells bootleg artwork and you're like, I got it from a pirate. I I would take any opportunity to refer to anyone in modern times as a pirate. Yeah. And. He literally would be a pirate stealing artwork. Would be an actual pirate but but then the fact that the image was also a pirate I think should have sent a little bit of an indication to Jamie that you were not in fact buying pirated artwork or buying it from some dodgy guy out of the back of a van. Also the fact that you're you and you literally link to Karl Kopinsky's website and Facebook.

Page, the fact that they link twice, actually twice the the link to Karl Kopinsky's page, it's an indication, but Jimmy, Jimmy told me that he didn't take the the link so so but. This happens sometimes. This happens sometimes with people when you when you have an ID in your head and that idea gets so stuck that all other ideas and suggestions, well, either just bonds bounce off of that idea or they you know, they'll go like around it or on top of it. But you're still stuck on this. Arnow's bought this thing from a dodgy guy out It's out of the back of.

The bank, yeah, agreed. Potentially agreed person. And then and then at 3 past 9:00 PM on on Tuesday, I'll start now, but it's from Tara as very specific. It's it's, but it's from Tara. I said. Ignored it two days later. Yeah, who the fuck is Tara? Yeah, but that's a question I'll ask. Don't just side note it and just be like, well, I don't know who the fuck that is so I'll just carry on with my life because he's. Right. And then and then the next day he actually said it's arrived, right? And then I asked again, who?

I'm still confused if Tara did it because I didn't know it was by Carl properly, I guess or no, or Carl shipped it. Obviously ignore it again. Oh no, I'll now write What? And then I laugh because would you mean what? Like would you mean what? Like obviously you know I'm asking if it's from Tara, his wife, right? Anyway, we got to the. Can I just say here, can I say one thing though? You just said the word. Obviously, I, I think nothing about this entire anecdote is obvious and, and you will have noticed in our chat that sometimes I'll just write what, or I'll just want one of your messages and go, huh, Because I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. And I would like you to clarify.

That's, well, I think sometimes it's important to not assume and to not be like, well, I guess he's buying things from pirates again. It's classical now. I have, yeah. I mean, I get that, you know, freelancer. Albert did right before. Before Alan Al did, by the way, who I was specifically asking, he wrote. What the fuck are you talking about Jamie? Basically so. And I said I asked ages ago where they are being sold and I'll now share it and said he just bought it from a random dude online and he was like no what he's been. He was, and then, and then it unravelled.

The the. Magneto man knows, understood everything exactly as it was and you didn't. I think you make a private message or something like you've had the yeah, sure, sure. You're like, oh, by the way, I don't know why you're whispering when you're private messaging, but yeah. That works. So that was that was enjoyable. I enjoyed I enjoyed that segment. Thank you too for. And all this, all this went because I, I that came because I made the oath of not contradicting Jamie.

Yeah, so. That's what you were saying. That's where we started. And I think a very good, it's a very good philosophy to never contradict Jamie unless you end up in legal troubles, which I think is impending. Highly possible. Highly possible. Well, you'll have to contradict me on a new segment we have today. It's called contradicting Jamie and it's Nah, not really, but there is a, there are two new segments. OK, so today's episode, going back to the intro, we've got the meat of it obviously, which is going to be on inspiration for colour schemes.

I think that's what you 2 would want. Good, good, good headline. Then we have news, because obviously I just like to fill in news. You guys could do news, but mine's more important, I guess, is the new elder model. Just a brief conversation on that, not a long one. We've got Dan to the Dan updates. Obviously some feedback. I can't say they don't like listening to anything talking about anime because they fucking hate it and they wish it didn't exist, which I think's a little bit extreme personally, but we are still going to nab on a little bit about that.

We've got the release cycle for GW, which has been on the roster now for three weeks, and we probably won't get to it because I think the other stuff's better. Rebel Moon, which we can't do now because our now's not watched it. Golden Demon because it's this. We're on the road to Golden Demon because it's only a month away, right? Oh, it's two months or a month and a half. Fuck, you guys are struggling. Then we've got a the new segment. OK, it's called Grot Busters and I don't want to give you too much. It's very good. It's it's. Really. It's called Grot Busters. Yeah, I'm Buckle up, listeners.

Grot Busters then we have the new segment, right? It's called Things I Hate and it's just a small segment and I'm just going to give you something that annoys me basically and then we can talk about it if we want to. And the elder project's nowhere, but I will give you an update on the other projects. So that is our I. I realise three of those are centred around me and that's fine as as the heart and the soul of the podcast, what I like legitimate. Yeah. What I quite like is the concept of someone listening to this for the first time and they don't know what satire is because they're autistic. And then, you know, they'll, they'll think Jamie has. So goodbye.

Did you have a? Did you have an end to that sentence? What's that is not what satire is. And anyway, yeah. And for our list tires, if you're wondering what ADHD is like, do you want to go to your your list of subjects now? Well, we've already. Yeah, we could go. So we're in the inspiration. Are we? No, no, no, I mean actually go down the subjects. I've already done it like. At least one At least one. Let's do 1. What subjects? What I did at school? What do you mean subjects? Are you actually this confused? Podcast. Let's start doing the things that we want to do you want to talk about the things that were on your list of things to talk, but I. Have already did.

I told everyone what they were. Do you mean they've heard it? I'm saying I'm not talking about reading the list, I'm talking about doing the things that are on the list to do right. Right. So yeah, one second, wait for it, Topic of the week. That's of course the Jingle for topic of the week, which was superseded by the meat of it. But oh, actually I wanted to talk about yeah, that basically I think I'm going to have to pay for the what the hell is it called? The Nitro on the server, the server boost, because we've only got 6 audios, so I couldn't do the meat of it audio, which is terrible.

I might look at that price. So yeah, that's just a side note. So yes, the meat of it. Oh God, half an hour. In I can't just step in the in the palette. With paint in it, yes. Fucking hell. Did he do this with his foot? The little flick thing. No, I cut. I cut here before that. But yeah, I'm surprised. He. Hasn't learnt or she. So the meat of it this week is inspiration. Now. We were talking, I wasn't there, but I walked in on you 2 talking about stealing people's pallets, right? I don't mean the physical palette. You're not pirates, but but I for the longest time, and I'm I'm only keying you 2 off and then you can talk about your shit, right?

But for the longest time I felt like I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm almost like learning or, or cheating by stealing somebody else's like inspiration, like a color palette, you know, colour. Well, I don't know what to call it. What's it called? It is a palette, right? Sure. Cutter scheme. Cutter ways, Yeah. Color palette, right? Exactly. So, so I've always, I've always felt like if I start or if I, if I go online and, and do a lot of research and steal palettes, then I won't learn how to do it myself, right. And that's why I always avoided it. It felt like using AI before AI was around. So yes, that's my input.

That's an interesting thought. And I've, I've, I've had the same thought actually about coming up with your own shit as opposed to doing what someone else did. And it's, it's kind of weird because I, I, I think I would have always said that like it's, it's good to base anything you're doing off of someone else's work. And then, yeah, I mean, this is a whole whole discussion about like originality and and kind of being creative. But I think what we, what me and I were talking about specifically is artwork. So like illustration, basically.

I was asking or now about the Dante diorama that you did. And like you mentioned that that was based off of an artwork. And then another thing that you did was also based off an artwork. And the thing you're working on now is, and it's, it's something, it's weird because I, I've literally like once specifically looked at a piece of art for something I did in the hobby and tried to, if not replicate, then take as much from that, like any kind of questions that I needed answer, any ideas for conversions and things. And that was a Black Templar squad that I did based on the 3rd edition cover, John Blanchard work. Other than that, I just, I feel like I forget that side of things.

But I know other people who will go really far with like the, I know one thing that Andy Wardle does that's really good is like get the photo out in Photoshop or the illustration and use a pipette to pick out the exact tones and you can really see like how they work together and try to translate that onto your wet palette. It just it makes a lot of sense and I need to maybe get better at being that kind of methodic with it. Yeah, for me, it's not even. It's not, it's not that I that I, I have to think to go to search for artwork is that it just inspires me to do stuff.

So it's actually the, the, the root of my, my journey, right? I see something that motivates me and I want to do something with it and I just translate it to figure or, you know, just adapt it or, or just to get get inspired a little bit by it. But I think for me, the the first thing is finding something that motivates me. So obviously, sometimes if I, if I have a Commission, then I will go Pinterest and search for a lot of artworks that fit my idea or something and then I will get inspiration from it. And I understand what you said, Jamie, about wanting to come up with your own stuff, but I think that this this comes from a wrong place, which is one thing to be unique or, or, or or, you know, important and somehow, but there's a lot of people that's better than you and that has

been doing this for a a very long time. And who where better to, to search for, for a learning experience than? Because it's not like you are copying line by line. You are absorbing stuff and you are absorbing colours and, and translating it in your heads because you are not literally copying and drawing, right? So you have to do a lot in your head to, to translate an image to a 3D. And it's, it's absolutely the best learning experience you'll ever have doing things like this. Obviously the, the, the more exact you adapt it, the less you process.

But still, it's a it's very important. So yeah, I think you cannot create by yourself if you do not have a lot of and a lot, a lot of experience. And all artists take inspiration from all other artists. All of them. I think there's, there's something to be said for like having again, having somewhere to start, having a foundation to stand on and I think copying someone else because this is, I was talking to a friend about this yesterday. It's it's kind of like if you look at music, no one really that kind of goes anywhere will start off just playing random notes and then eventually stringing them together into something that sounds good.

You will start by playing someone else's songs. Like that's definitely how most people get started. Whether it's piano, guitar, drums, whatever, you're going to play something that someone else has done or created sort of for you. And, and I think even there, it's really easy to see the progression from doing playing someone else's thing and then sort of coming up with little variance of that. Or if you've only played tons of Blues, you're going to start to come up with your own kinds of Blues licks. And then the more you're exposed to, the more ideas you'll have. And eventually you might get really, really creative. And sure, I think there is in some people are kind of talent, the predisposition for that stuff. But it's really useful, I think, to look at other brands of creativity and translate that to our hobby, if that's what we're talking about, because that sort of explains things for me for myself where and especially stuff like this, you know, like the the equivalent of that would be basically like copy someone else's paint job.

Maybe, maybe don't copy like one of our now pieces for golden demon and entered into golden demon. But, you know, doing, doing exactly the same thing as someone else's date has done is not the worst idea because you're probably going to go through the method of creating it that process. But best case, you'll start to understand why things look the way they do and why that method looks the way it does. Because I think that's the biggest, always the biggest thing for me. It's like it's not just how to do it and what to do, but why. And the most important is that you will realize so many things that you didn't realize at the first glance.

Like when we see an artwork, we focus on some things and with some some other things and mostly the things that we don't understand, we just erase, like we don't even see them. But when you, you have to copy, you have to understand everything, the things that you already understand and the things that you don't. And because you have to do that effort of, you know, processing the things that you don't understand, that's where the difficulty comes from. Because if, if the person who did the artwork knows more than you, you will have to raise your level to even start comprehend comprehending, understanding the what, what they did.

So just just for that, I think it's, it's great. And I, I, I don't, I don't have fun copying other people's figures, obviously, because they already did that. So why would I do the same, right But copy, not even copying, adapting or or getting inspired by artworks that are another medium which is 2D. It's fun because you have a lot of challenges in the middle in composition, usually to the are a bit more forgiving with with space and 3D is not forgiving at all with space. So things like that are are fun and useful. Do you do?

Because copying a 3D it's going to give you less. Like you're talking about copying artwork, but you're talking about specifically 2D into 3D or it's not so important? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but I'm not even saying copying. Like, I know you may be not using the word copying as copying, but I don't. Even when I paint, I never have something in front of me. What my my process is when I look for an artwork, I try to understand the artwork. I observe what the artwork what what, what I like from it and then I put it on my finger, but not checking the artwork all the time. 11 Once the understanding phase is over, I will not look at that artwork again because it's, you know, it's, I want to do my own thing based on the inspiration of that artwork, but you know, I I don't want to replicate it.

You know, that's something interesting about color schemes that I've found. And this is something that I, I feel like I'm, I'm often like kind of recommending people with coming up with color schemes is that you can, you can really kind of get everything down from just one color because every other color needs to work with that color. So if you, whatever you're painting, really, if you know what one part of it is going to be and you're pretty sure about that. I mean, unless it's like a belt buckle in silver, but like a, a, a big maybe armor or a Cape or a tunic or skin or something. If you've got that down, then you should, you should be able to fill everything else in with kind of doesn't have to be a color wheel, but like color theory, just really basic color theory, things like contrast, you know, that's that's what we're usually talking about.

And I find I think what you're talking about kind of reminds me that because it is essentially what you're saying is you have your artwork that you're inspired by and then you start working on your thing, which is sort of Step 2. And once you have that, whatever that is, if you've built something, if you've just got like little unassembled plastic bits on your desk or whatever, then that becomes the new thing you're working from, right? That's essentially that's the new starting point. So then everything, everything after that. Now you've already got somewhere to go from. It becomes alive once once.

I start and it starts, it's almost like it you, you just need that first step to like push it along a little bit and then the rest will sort of fall into place. And that's definitely where experience comes into play because that's not going to be the same for everyone. That's where you might instinctively know what's going to work, what's not going to work. I know something I come up against a lot is like an idea will look very different because of my sort of limitations in converting. If I was a much better sculptor, I could have very different ideas.

But that's, I think that's where again, someone else might think what I've, I've never done anything like that. I have to base everything I do from a stock model or again, someone else might think, no, I'm totally fine with sculpting. So the idea can be literally anything. I can make this model do anything or shape it any way I want. That, I guess, again, comes from a little bit of like experience, but also sort of knowing, yeah, knowing your limitations, knowing where you're at. And, and I guess not, not sticking to them, because I think being ambitious will take you so much farther than than if you are not like some things you may not do well, but some things you will. And, and those things that you will do well, you wouldn't have discovered them.

Yeah, if you were not ambitious. So that's, that's the other thing, like really never feel free to like write it on a post and put it on your desk. But like, one thing I would say is never be afraid to fail at, you know, art or your hobby. I mean, if we boil it down to what it is like, we're painting toy soldiers because we enjoy it. Failing isn't really like it doesn't even exist. You can do something that, yeah, it is part of the process. It's literally something you have to. And, and definitely when I started out, I was fortunate in that I, I genuinely didn't care that what, what anyone else was going to think. I was very happy to show off my work to like the guys that worked at the Warhammer store.

And you know, they were encouraging because I was a little kid, but that, that feeling of like, I just want to do this stuff. It doesn't matter if it becomes good according to anyone else's standard. I'm, I'm really happy I had that because it really became this great driving force. And I'm really sad to see so many people like stuck with, well, what if this doesn't turn out good? And I think, yeah, last week we won't. Yeah, yeah. You have to go through that was it. Yeah, you really do. Yeah, Can't remember. Yeah, that's kind of where you were.

You were talking about Jamie with with sort of stopping because you you put this weird expectation on yourself. And yeah, again, to tie it into like inspiration, I think that's something that you have to just like our now is saying like don't, don't push yourself in the sense of I have to get better. I have to learn this. But just like don't, don't be too afraid. Actually. Like keep in mind that that might just be this sort of feeling of, yeah, feeling of fear and like a conservative sense of I might not do this very well. And I think, well, fuck it, just do it really badly. Then.

Then you can evaluate that and see what works next time. If it's obviously I'm in my new train of thought here so it's not hard anymore. But while I'm in that deep mode, it's hard because it's like learnt. I don't know what the word, there's a, there's a saying it's like learnt behaviour, like how a dog would be learnt, you know, to do the tricks and shit. So that's, that's what you need to beat as well though is, is, I think maybe culturally is not the right word, but in our community, we're all very much geared like that. I, I talk to other people as well about it and they've got the same things going on in their head and the same expectations.

I don't know if it's social media or what, Like we've managed to take away the joy of painting is how I feel. I, I, I talk to a lot more people. It might be that the people enjoy it, don't talk about it, but I talk to a lot more people to say I'm stuck on this. I find it too hard. There's too much. Like, I hear that more than I hear I'm fucking just slapping paint down and loving it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, definitely. I understand that, but I also think that it's not anyone's fault other than yourself. I suppose it's a journey that you need to go on to come back round and and have the the youthful joy of painting and not caring and and going for it. And then you'll get to this point where you'll question yourself and have an existential crisis on is painting worth it? And then it'll take six years out and then they'll come back and realise that actually, yeah, painting is worth it if you just don't put.

That for me it all comes down to why do you paint? To get girls how how you act like the only reason to get girls like it's. Of course, we all do that, yeah. It's like, why else would we do it? Fucking hell, look at those damages, Yeah. No one in this podcast is single. I mean, you do the math, listeners. Yeah, exactly. I think people paint more when they're they're they're actually in a relationship weirdly, because. You like, yeah, sorry, so or no, you're saying that it's not necessarily like a culture thing, but just down to any one individual getting putting that pressure on themselves? Oh, that's absolutely for sure.

But isn't that learnt though? Isn't that learnt from the people, from the social media, everybody sharing for likes? Isn't it much more? Love how how are this is This is very interesting because you we established that you hear what you want to hear and that you read what you want to read. Yes, I see. Yeah, OK. But But now social media is telling you it's not. That's not how it. Works. You do. It's not. Yeah, I'm not doing the social media. I talk about other people because I don't do social. Media, I mean, but I think everyone is the same.

Everyone hears really what they want to hear and and. Yeah, I'm not just using you as an example, but not necessarily a perfect example of this behaviour within the community, but yeah, people. And now you're saying I am literal again, basically. At the end of the day, if you if you paint because you enjoy painting, you will keep doing it no matter what. What if if someone else says shit it, you will not even hear it because you are painting it? It's more nuanced than that. It's more nuanced because I didn't. I genuinely didn't care if someone said I don't like that piece, if I enjoyed painting it, right. I was.

It's fine because I don't care. I enjoyed what I was doing, which, by the way, I put the magnets perfectly. It's quite cool on it. Yeah. So I didn't. I didn't. Well, I didn't enjoy the moment. God. The. Moment you changed that approach and you stopped painting because of because you liked it. The moment you changed the reason why you painted exactly is the moment you you lost it. Well, and yeah, that's like a boner, but that's what I mean. I only, I only lost it because I tried to get better. So I as in I actively thought in my brain, oh fuck, I want to get better at this, rather than I'll paint for five years and I'll naturally get better because I'm enjoying. Because your, your reason, your reason for painting was not fun anymore was learning, was it?

It was the. School. We should drop out of school really and just do subjects you want to do is what I'm hearing. Well, actually I I think the the educational system is not. It's broken. Really good, but yeah. But that's, I think, for another episode. Also that's probably not mini maths, it's it's. It's definitely related though. I think I get what you're saying Jamie, And to Arnell's point as well, it is true that the the motivation will be quite different if you're actually interested in it.

It's genius, R now that is. It's true. It means I'm not paying for fun anymore. I'm paying A get the bitches and B get better at painting because they're flowing. There's just there's so many that you've. Yeah. You. Were stuck. Did I did. I, I feel like, I feel like when I was getting into this hobby and I was hanging out at the warmer store and people came in with their armies. And this is, I'm probably making this up, but I feel like I saw a lot of random shit that people did with their armies that was quite fun. And I could see this real sense of like, yeah, just being creative.

There was always like everyone had for their army a heavenly what not not heavily, but like a converted hero that was their leader. And I remember at some point thinking like, well, that was the standard in like the the armies in White Dwarf. That's kind of how people were were told to do. And I think there is something to be said for what we're told to do now and by whom, because part of it is Games Workshop, if we're talking about Warhammer specifically, like they have, you know, their version of what armies look like and what they constitute as a conversion and whatever else. And even in Golden Demon now we're sort of being discouraged to convert too much and too interesting. Yeah.

And but also again, from like social media and I, I think it's an interesting line of thinking like what, what, what is, what is the, the general attitude for creativity And again, for like failing or doing something that isn't really cool. Or I mean, I guess if I'm being honest, I do also see a lot of random shit on social media now and things. And also also also I don't go to tournaments and I understand that people still do really cool things with their armies. So what the hell do I know? But I feel like I just think maybe there is a difference there.

Yeah, I think we need to learn from this, all of us. And it's fascinating. It's I do like the the concept. I was also always pissed off when people did shit conversions. But now thinking back, I shouldn't, I shouldn't have. I've really hated it. I was like, why would you fucking do that to your model? It'd be like a guy with a gun for a hand, right? And it's just like he's cut it off at the bottom and put it in like, it's like fucking shit. OK, but looking back now I probably shouldn't have been so harsh because they were having fun doing it. They're just having fun, yeah. Yeah. And I, I just couldn't, I could not conceptualize why they would live their lives that way.

I before, before my I, I was very, I was very non judgmental. But when I did judge, I was extremely binary. I couldn't comprehend that there was anything other than my way of thinking, if that makes sense. I just couldn't get my head around it. And that's why having an addiction has really opened up my view that actually everybody's fucked and completely ruined and just dog shit basically, because I never thought I'd perform. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

I I'd like I'd. Never. That's that you can. You're going to be. You're a free man once you understand that. Yeah, it's just fast. It's just weird, isn't it? The work like and, and and it's worse, right, Because anybody in power has to be narcissistic by default, I believe. OK, so like because why else would you spend your entire life to live a shit life? But you have control and everybody knows you and talks about you and has to listen to what you're saying. Basically a a Prime Minister or a politician or or or the The only exception there might be like an Obama vibe where he's still narcissistic but he decises it as he's charming enough to make it not seem that way. Basically, yeah, it's weird.

Yeah, the politics is another another episode. That's why I thought we could. Well, I don't do politics really, except for knowing that it's all fucking shit. It is all fucking. Shit, that that's as far as my politics goes, yeah. Right at this very moment, I'm inclined to agree, actually, Yeah. So I built, I built. I didn't know you could build like a flat bed of magnets. It's cool, wouldn't it? So. Jamie's had a delivery to his House of magnets and it is definitely the event of this day. It was I was remarkably pleased.

And I'll tell you what's fascinating also is now I didn't know this happened, OK? But if you do build a bed of magnets, because they've got poles, they go to one end or the other depending on which where they are, right? And if I keep adding to this pile, that pole will get bigger and then I have to push them in to do that. And then it stays like. Fuck. Imagine right? Have you the floor? It's a floor mosaic. People make mosaic floors, right? They they fucking Christ.

Imagine a mosaic of magnets on the floor. How much fucking you could fuck people up? Powerful magnets. A dog walks in with his collar on the floor. You're fucked, mate. Yeah, drop your phone. Oh no, it's broken. Shouldn't have dropped your phone you twat. Trying to pick up your keys. Nah, they are N1 magnets, the most powerful in the world. Try to use. Try to use a compass in that place. It happened. No chance. Put them on the ceiling. Metal boots, right? Everyone has. No one has thought of that.

A floor of magnets. Not one person. Why? Make sure you make sure you apply for a patent before you post this podcast because I think that's going to be a real rush. It's expensive though because these magnets are not cheap and it was like 100 for £20 so. Where'd you get them? EBay. No. Amazon. So no. Pirate Oh, now it's the pirate expert here. Oh, when in the middle, Right. I've killed that segment. So yeah, I, I, I, I do find inspiration. I mean, with my new found ability to paint without worrying about the results. Like, because I remember before I met this guy, now I tried to copy one of his paint.

Oh, fuck. That's interesting. So two. Yeah, right. No, go ahead, go ahead. I've got many things going on. I've ruined it right before I met Arnow and I didn't know how to paint it. I I was trying to copy one of his paint jobs. OK, couldn't do it for the fucking life of me. Couldn't do it right. And I had it in front of me and I was like, how is he? It was the bone man with the. The Bone Man. He's a normal person, but he's going on.

That was it, yes. Bad paint job. No. Yeah. OK, Well, one big problem with the magnet floor, just to go back to it, sorry, is one small one tiny. Like you fuck it up, What's 1 imperfection and the whole thing turns into a magnet row. They all like a pound strip where you have all the pound coins sort of thing. We'll be funny to be there, yeah. That would imagine that and you spent like £1,000,000 building it anyway. Are you going to magnetize all the elder weapons? Is that what's happening?

No, it's for the bases. For the bases. Yeah, so I can transfer. I have a metal tray, right? Isn't it quite easy to magnetize the weapons for the war walkers and race Lord? Yeah, probably. I I I did do it on my Wraith night and I did do it on some of the AL talks. But on the normal foot guys, I'd rather just have two squads with double because the elder project OK, well, let me finish the R now, but so. You were trying to You were trying to copy R Now's paint job before you. So I just couldn't.

I couldn't do it right, But that was inspiration. But I was trying to do a one for one copy. I was trying to not quite true. I was trying to recreate his bone because I liked it right. Oh, I did know you are now when I copied. I just didn't know you painted it. Yeah, big difference. I know what that looks like. I did. Did you ask her now for the colour that for the paint recipe and. It was the same time on now that you were painting the morning. That's when I and I was trying to paint him as well and I was using that artwork. So you did know me. There was this tiny crossover, but we didn't know each other that well for the morning.

We don't need. Yeah, not that long. Yeah, no. Anyway, and then on Martin, so this was the link. So I knew I had our Now's artwork before I knew him. And then you. I've had your artwork saved in my computer for like 12 years, right? And only now do I realize that you're the guy that painted one of my favourite UTHWE armies. Isn't that weird? That is weird. They do save me, Queen. Heroes, yeah, it is weird, but it's it's fascinating honestly, because they're the they're some of the best. Well, this brings back to the inspiration, right. This is why I'm talking about anyway. Like they they're some of the best Wii since 3rd edition. Like inspired but upgraded right? Like that kind of ready black red gore. And whenever I paint Warhammer, I always feel like a cheat because I want to recreate the colour schemes or things that are the ones I grew up with.

And I always wondered how the heavy metal team come up with paint schemes, the first paint schemes, right? Because this is always always blow my mind. And I've always wondered, is it the artwork or is it you guys? So, and I'll, I'll say something about this which which I realized about experience and inspiration and all that shit because it's hard to. So OK, I'll, I'll say this first. It is hard. I, I think anyway, when someone's like, if you just do this thing 100,000 times, you're going to get good at it.

And it's, I can see that being the case with like bench presses and I can see it being the case with well, a lot of things really when you're just building and, and trying it again and getting better at it. But for whatever reason, that sort of thought process, I couldn't really see how that could get better. Like having ideas is not something that I could really see how that would improve just by having ideas, if that makes sense. Like, I've got this idea not for anything, for anything. Like I've, I've had an idea for a, for a, a movie, let's say.

And then, OK, well, what if you have 10 ideas and you write them down? Why would those ideas suddenly get better? It's not something I could instinctively understand now anyway. When I was working for the every metal team, I, I got a lot of experience coming up with and developing color schemes. And I realized after all these years of doing that, that I think my my knack for coming up with colour schemes is better. I think I'm better now at developing colour schemes and also like resolving ideas that I have to make them work better. If I'm, for example, right now I'm working on a squad and I think I'm a little more confident kind of developing that idea and turning into something that's going to work as a whole because of the years I did the W metal rather than or compared to when I was before I started working there.

And I can only really kind of see that now after like years and years. But that's I guess what happened. It's not just that. It's not necessarily that like I'm just somehow my ideas are better now than they were then. Clearly it's something that I've developed and I didn't quite see that happening, if that makes sense. You know, it's not something that you sit down at a desk and you whittle away at the same thing and now you're better at it. It's something that's happening in your brain from actually thinking about something and having to think about something and having to solve this in kind of problem. But also, you're not specifically saying to yourself at the start of of of XA period of time, oh, I want to be better at X thing. You're just doing your job and.

Yes, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah. And it's kind of an interesting and that was, and this is sort of to answer your question is it was probably my favorite part of working for every medal. And one of the, one of the things I really miss the most is getting to develop color schemes for new armies. So the way it works or the IT did when I was there is you'll have, depending on what project it is, you'll have more or less inspiration against again to to build off of. So if it's I mean, let's say the the Blood Angels, because we were talking about those last week, our beloved Blood Angels, you know, the the red armor is pretty much set the way they seeing us a lot. Sorry about that.

The the way the. Once GW always I guess. On a on a Space Marine, the way it breaks down is is pretty much set. It's written down somewhere. You know, the veterans have their gold helmets, the salt meat have the yellow helmets, the numbers and symbols and all that's already done so that no need to do that. The recipe for the gold armor, maybe that needs updating. OK, so maybe someone needs to have a look at writing some new gold recipes. I wasn't there, so I don't know. Because the paints change or something. Yeah, or maybe just because they're not going to really stand next to the old Sanguinary guard.

Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud here. That's where kind of how that project would look for me to sit down with a bunch of painters and go, OK, what do we need to update, if anything? So this is more than I. Would have imagined I like in my head it would just be like right mind go and fucking do them and you're like cheers mate. And then you come back a week later and they're done kind of thing. That's that that happens with, you know, Ultramarines or a lot of well, if there's like a one off random thing. So well, what would that be?

Something that's not specifically belonging to any range even. You know, we were going to talk about the new Eldar spirits here. That's like, yeah, yeah, that's there's a, there's a recipe for the Yandan color scheme. So that's probably there for someone to use. But again, is that definitely going to be stood next to a bunch of other Yandan stuff? Maybe not. Maybe you could go off a little bit and do that different. That's just the painted like. The color scheme would still have to be yeah. Yeah, it would still need to look like Yandin and that's more like that's, that's kind of connected to the IP, which is always going to be the basis for everything that UW does is where does it fit into the IP? And I think there's no real, I wouldn't say that I like, I'm looking for ways to, to change the, the way things have been done or like to alter the IP.

But I think there's always going to be that sort of quite wide frame of not necessarily what has been done before, but what could fit into this IP, which I think is is something that the golden demon judges ideally would be quite true. That as well, isn't it? So, you know, like the the diorama that are now did with the Space Marines killing the Chaos Space Marines, that that all to me instinctively definitely fits into the IP, even though those Space Marines aren't something that the heavy medal team have done much with. Maybe there's like one guy somewhere, but that's like, that's totally fine. You know what I mean?

That that definitely fits into the world of 40K, even though it's not necessarily been done before. So anything new that every metal designs are developed? You would have pre reigned to do that with you or you're doing those meetings and you'd be like right, I want to paint this bloke blue, but he's normally. Yeah, yeah. If it's if there's AI mean we can use a specific example, but like what's what's cool that's come out. I mean, you know, again, it depends on the army. If it's a brand new army, that's another discussion. Then that's something like the AOS stuff will usually be something brand new. So like the new I shoot chaos Dwarf dudes. That's that will have been something that's there's very little really to go off of where it needs to connect to something.

There's been some 4 troll chaos to wars. Do we need them to look exactly like that? Probably not. There's the old, old Chaos Dwarfs. Probably don't need to look anything like them. So that's more or less a blank slate. Or, you know, ease. Of paint, yes, I got. Is anybody thinking? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the other thing is once you've got an idea for how they need to or what they're going to look like. So some, some just like Photoshop sketches of where the colors are placed, you need to, you need to design all the recipes and that needs to be able to be painted by, you know, 10 people.

So that's another thing like when we did the Leagues of Otan, which is something that I was actually part of. So I can I know more about that, but that was a really long process of designing color schemes. I think Max did 80, no, maybe like 40. I think it, I think it was more than that like 60 or 70 or something color schemes at the very start and then so. Because the way I this is how I imagine the process, right? I'm GW. OK, Arnell or you are the right Space Marines got a new chapter. They're called Fiddly Diddlys.

Fucking just do something with that. Yeah, get it back next week. And then and then you guys go off. This is how I thought it was. You paint, you paint. Five of them come back and he goes, what do you think of this for a basic colour scheme? And then I'll give you some feedback. I'll be like blah blah blah blah blah blah. And. Then you go back and then you finish the stuff and then you do maybe one more paint and then you come back and then but you actually have to come up with what was it? Recipes. Yeah, so recipes is the the what I use and I think that's become kind of a common word for anything to do with every metal painting. It's just that that's just like an ultra means armor will be Mccrag blue, Calgary blue, shaded by mixing in Cantor and black.

That's the recipe. We don't release those recipes, do you? It's just internal. Now, it's not really something they allow, but you can find most of those recipes if you go to everyarchiveithink.com, probably. I mean, fucking Google it. But yeah, every archive.com has a whole bunch of recipes for all kinds of ranges, and that's collected by Dave Perriman. And how interesting. David Perriman.

Yeah, David Perriman, the genius himself, Slave Shot winner and a bunch of other people have helped to build that archive out into what it is. That's a good place to look for. How does the heavy metal do XYZ? Yeah. It's just that it's done and that's it's all kind of. Vague, isn't it? I like because we we were talking, I mean. Very much so, yeah. We were talking about it off air, which we we shouldn't do, right? We should save common. But I remember talking about how, for example, Fulgrim like that the new one, right? That's not going to be a recipe.

We weren't talking about Fulgrim. This is an example. I can't remember who we were talking about, but but but that's that's just that worse of going off and painting how they want to paint that Fulgrim right basically. Yes, but there will be, and this is again something I really liked both as a painter of something and as just part of the teams. I really enjoy the fact that it is teamwork. Always whenever you see something that you think this is really well painted, someone will have sat there with a brush. Yes, but there will have been, you know, other people involved in designing that color scheme.

And again, it'll it'll vary from project to project. Like when I was painting Angron, I got a ton of help with just like basically sense checking ideas, even though I knew like hey, he's going to have red skin, he's going to have brass armor. That's all over the lore. We know that. But like, what does that mean exactly? Like which brass when you know, brass is also like a weird word because people confuse bronze, brass, copper and gold bucket. I was just following brass. It's not exactly the same color. So is it copper armor?

Is it really dark? Is it really shiny? How do we weather it? And so on. That's it's good to have other people to check that with. So that most of that was before I started paying for money. Did you find it restrictive though in that regard? Like I can't imagine now, for example, like that kind of vibe, but but it's a different mentality, right? You're you're buying into my team. And I, I, you know, it's interesting because I know that that's what our now does every day with a lot of other box art. And I don't really envy that freedom so much. I think I would still want to check things with someone else if I was doing the box art for, you know, the all these busts and 70 mil figures that you do whatever it is, I would want to check like, is this a good way to go?

Is this a good color scheme? Does this make sense? And I guess that becomes again to to connected to like what you were saying about don't be too afraid to try things out. That does happen sometimes is you, you end up in a place where you, you're afraid that you, you can't actually do things yourself. You actually, you, you, you, you ask maybe questions that you do know the answer to, but you still want to check with someone else. That's what I was just. So yeah, a little bit of. But but then on a flip side, like in my work, we write all our code and then we send it out to two developers within the team and they have to fact, not Fact Check it, but just validate it, right? And then and then you learn stuff because someone like, don't get me wrong, some people write stupid shit and you're like, but you have to listen.

And then other times they write shit and you're like, oh fuck yeah, I didn't think about that. Like so you could learn from it. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's the best case scenario. You get some good ideas from other people and you get to give good feedback to them and you get to work again with like a lot of projects feel like you're all kind of working together. But obviously there's probably just going to be one person putting actually brush to model so. It's it's not, it's not as binary. You don't get stuck or you do get stuck, but you can ask other people.

Yeah. Because I literally have always wondered, like how the fuck did all these painters come up with so many good colour schemes, for example, the eye and in colour scheme that are now, this is Arnault's favorite colour scheme, actually just the yellow and blue. I think it is, yeah. What do you think? So I know the kind of the Swedish and or Ukrainian flags, are you? Albert hates it, but I don't, I don't love it or hate it. I think I liked Yandan as a as a as a thing because it's based on spectral.

Oh, you like the lore more than the colour scheme? Yeah, the colour scheme is what? The original album go way back so I would have no idea who actually designed them originally. It's probably like Mike McVeigh or someone from. It's older even. Yeah, it's even older. It's literally from the early, late 80s. They changed. They did develop MM brought some more modern calmerness like UTHWI used to be. Red and black. Sorry, black and yellow. Yeah, like, well, yeah, black and yellow, but they're still black and yellow, but they're.

Well, they went and then they went to black and red for like 10 years, and now they're back to, yeah, black and yellow. But yeah, it is interesting actually seeing all the old ones. It's like Dark Angels used to be red. Is that right? Blood Angels. What are they used to be Black. The green ones used to be black, right? There you go. Yeah, I think there was someone. Oh shit, I should know this better. I think actually what it is is someone, there's a there's a piece of artwork where the black was rendered as dark green. That's but it was sort of. Is that right? Yeah, and they turned into. Yeah, I know.

Yeah, exactly. And then that's. But I think that's how the the dark ingots became green. It was just black was rendered as dark green. I love that they like to look cool the same way that you might paint black with any kind of any color really, because you need to add highlights and like reflections to it. And this is just done as a dark green. And then it just looked really cool and they ended up painting them like that in in the miniatures. So it's a weird thing for GW. Like I feel like all of the Max creativity stuff came like a long time ago. Like, like I didn't have a specific but like early 80s, late 80s, early 90s, like those mistakes or like what the fuck was it? All of the artwork?

So every single sculpt for Elder that has come out in the last like 10 years, 15 years have all been from the early 80s, late 80s, early 90s, like literally every single one. You know, the new flying ships that they have for the Harlequins, the transports, and they look hyper modern and stuff. That was literally a dress sketch that he did in the late 80s that no one had ever, no one remembered that well. And then they take their inspiration. But but also Age of Sigmar is a lot more exciting because they are not stuck in the same things. If you don't, you don't you worry that that 8 of Sigma is slightly more exciting.

Absolutely not, and I think you're a twat. Would you so more? Exciting how than 40K just generally? They're not restricted to the whole law. The this is the predictability. You mean the creation of AOS right now? Now I, you know, I'm, I'm inclined to agree with our now, but go ahead, Jamie. ATV wise it's it's another leak like that's not even and and I I love 40K with all my life but sometimes it's boring as shit because they don't do anything new No it's. Because they do, yes, but that's by choice. It's because it's a safe bet it.

It I know, I know it's by choice and I think it's the wrong choice. Like why? Why release another Lieutenant? Why do it exactly? Why exactly? It's it's extremely frustrating. Yeah, I I that's all I've got to say on it. Actually. I because otherwise this just turns into a a GW. Yeah, yeah. But like, no, I, I, I I I could, I'm so close to going down that road. But yeah, I wish that they, I wish that they didn't. Just want to sell Arnow off.

I, I think this is a great conversation to have and I think Arnow is right. Almost by definition, AOS is more creative because there's just nothing there. They're like they, they, that's it's almost too creative. I mean some of the early. Why does they were like what are they called? Storm storm? What are the storm? Storm Tastic kernels. Why do they look like space breeds? That's not creative. They're making the poster boys look like the poster boys. I mean, that's a really they wanted, they wanted to replicate Space Marines in Age of Sigmar, which I understand. I don't agree.

I don't agree at all, but but it's clearly a decision. Yeah. So actually it actually, yeah, it actually gives solidifies this even more. The only thing that it's based on something that was already established is the most boring part of Age of Sigma. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, I do. I do. You're a piece of shit. I do. It makes it makes total sense. Yeah, OK, well, elder Elder is still no, I would absolutely love creativity. I would love them to create some sort of like beast rider randomly for elder, for example, or like some. But no, that's not even fucking creative if they did, because that's already in the law.

So. But a new, a new type of vehicle, a new type of yeah, a new character isn't there. Isn't there? Fuck sake. Isn't there a danger of sorry for all the beeping? It's my blood. Sugar first time. We've heard it. Yeah, well, won't be the fucking last. So isn't there a danger with with sorry, with Eldar, for example, of it being a bit stagnant of of it just being we need to we need to redo something that's been done before just because or we, we absolutely desperately have to come up with a new unit because this army just needs to have more stuff come out.

Yeah, but isn't there a danger of that's a good motivation. What? Like what I think you're saying is you're, you're only creating new units for the sake of creating new units, right? Yeah, Yeah. But can't you just? Create like a new sake of creating everything, but do. It good. Like just don't be shit. Yeah, Potentially. Potentially, yeah. I don't know, yeah. But I'm I'm OK with the hypothesis that that might happen, but I'm I'm skeptical of it actually happening again. It's a bit like Apple. Apple has to have a new iPhone every year. That will happen.

Yeah. That sounds like a shit like brief if I was a designer for Apple. Yeah, but you'd. Be like you're you can make 2 billion years by really seeing. What we've done for the next like 18 years and just do another one for next year. Cool. Like so they they like what I will say to to go out of the GW bashing is they have created some new cool units for elder. They did shroud runners, they did all the Harlequin stuff, but at the they did the Wraith night, they did. The the the no not XR Phoenix Lord for warp spiders was a really cool model and definitely a very nice neat little gap to fill.

Yeah, because they would have. They've still got to do the Rangers, Phoenix Lord and OF. Course they would have one. They're not aspect warriors. No, but they've got him in the law, Do they? Well, no, but he has a God, and that means they could easily do one if they wanted to. They've got the the creator of Elder, the father of elder. You have issue the it's the same as the Alvin law. Basically, it's identical. The monkey or whatever he's called. He's like anyway, he's not an aspect, but I'd still like them to get a character. He could. He could be like a Phoenix.

Oh, they could do a character for sure. They could do a character. It just wouldn't be a Phoenix story. My theory, I guess we're going to naturally over time go to GW products because we all love it so if you don't like it you are screwed. Not you 3 the listeners. The fuck? Ah my my theory is they're currently in the phase of no. What's that word innovation? That's what I think they're in. I think they're in the phase now of fix like they're they're hard resetting everything. They're fucking off all the old models. They're getting rid of metal, they're getting rid of old plastic kits.

They're they, they're they're going to a baseline of okayness, right? Is what I think they're they're making HD versions of stuff that was SD before and and 4K right? I agree completely with that. Yeah, and, and, and I, I like, so I hope that at the end of 10th, every army's got their refresh except for Grey Knights, Dark Elder, more or less every army's got their refresh and then I think they can introduce hopefully like a period of golden age you could say of, of Warhammer like. Yeah, let's hope. I think, I think they've done with that in mind, I think they've done good work with a lot of stuff I like.

I don't hate where Space Marines have been in the last couple of years, or maybe I do. No, I think it was kind of nice with like. I think they've been a middle ground. I think they've had some amazing, like genuinely really good, innovative, brilliant sculpts. And then they've also had some dog shit, which is fine because that's normal. You will hit and miss, won't you? I, I I. Don't understand that report, but I do really appreciate things like because obviously we want to talk about Elder as much as humanly possible on this podcast. I do like the fact that that range refresh was quite sort of straightforward, like new Guardians. Yeah, it was just an HD upgrade, was just a bunch of, yeah, exactly like you say, HD stuff.

I appreciate how how simple that felt, like it was just no one actually wants us to reinvent the order range. Let's just do everything nice. Yeah, it's a shame it was 23 years too late, but it wasn't too late because it was there and it was great. But it is interesting and I agree completely. I was. I had no real complaints. And, you know, I'm not a Blood Angel player, so I wouldn't know what that's like. So yeah, the news was we can go there quickly. The new I, I really like, obviously the new sculpt is great, I think. And I think the paint job's probably the best anybody could do.

I, I do, I, I genuinely find that inspiring. So I need to try and find that recipe for that yellow. I'd like to, although I do like painting my own shit, so maybe not. I like the blue, I like the sculpt, and I'm very glad it's an elder. I'm shocked actually that it's an elder for the warhammer plus like that blows my mind they they stepped up. The the So what? Yeah, sorry, Go ahead. Go ahead. Don't. Know the the old well the the other exclusive figures for Warhammer. Plus they were always quite boring and these two are mind blowingly good.

What about the Vinda care assassin? Yo that was good, that was cool. The 1st. Did you do it mine? I did paint that Brian Nelson sculpted. It, but you wouldn't ask in that way otherwise, yeah. I would not it I didn't need a base at all. I remember thinking I'm going to do the most nonsense minimal base imaginable so that they can crop it out of the photo. It shouldn't be there at all. But besides, that is a cool model. I quite like it now. I agree that it that these these models are really nice and beautiful, and I do like that they're moving to the like these.

The commemorative stuff is basically like little dioramas because I think it's really fun for everyone in the studio. I can only imagine, aside from having painted one of those myself, it's just great to work on some Oh, I did you know what else I did that Bayard's Revenge, the Black Templar and Christianity. That's having an work, right? Basically, several people have entered that into Golden Demon as a duel because that's what it is. It's a duel and what's awesome, it's not like the most easiest piece to play with, but it's great.

I love that they're doing things that are just kind of for miniature collectors and and cool bits as well. And so these two are really, really like that. I can't really see anyone putting that Eldar thing on a gaming table. Yeah, that was always a criticism of GW, they've forgot how to have fun. You know the orc scopes they used to have in the back of the day, blah blah blah. So yeah, I agree, these are these are much more relaxed as it were more artistic Y So anybody who wants to go and look can just look on the Warhammer community and just search for Warhammer plus I guess model or something and we can just put it in the fucking group because we've only got 5 listeners anyway, so and then they'll all be in there, right? The probably we can just share it with each other, be friends. Yeah, yeah, right.

They should just have a private WhatsApp, right. And we can just share the the video directly. There we are. I mean we we've got a lot of stuff to cover. We haven't got near GW release cycle yet. So that's for next week, right. Let's do the new segments. I still want to talk about Dan and Rebel Moon, but we might have to wait till next week. So I want to hear a quick. Update on GED, but yeah, go to your new segments. Oh, we can do. We can do. GDI have no update. Good, good and sweet. What about you are now? I do have a small update. I was doing some mock ups with pieces to do what's happening in the end because I thought, I want to do a fucking chaplain. So I'll do a fucking chaplain even if it's just a black armor. You know I don't.

I was almost almost falling into wanting to get a demon instead of wanting to to paint something cool and I realized where I was going and I didn't like it. Nice. So I So what we spoke about like the first episode I guess. Sure. Yes, that's right. Probably that's. Right, that's what it was. That's what it was. Right now I'm. Glad that you worked that. Out and and then yeah, I realized I just want to have a cool tablet, so I'm going to do a cool tablet. On the black, right?

Yeah, yeah. What's the Oh, the chaplain, The guy with his mask? Yeah, if I don't get anything because it's boring, then that's fine. So you're doing it for 40K single? Yes, well, there's another. There's another option. You entering 40K signal. I have not actually, but there's a lot of people on that list now. I'm just, it's going to be a cool category. Sorry, it's not. It's not 100% sure, OK, because if I have more time, maybe I'd like to do how's it called? That vampire thing, That scent, our vampire thing.

Yeah, I think I know the one that's like half dragon, half. Half wheel thing? Half, yeah. Yeah. I always like that. That's called very much and I it's something that I really see myself doing for fun. And in like 4 days. I mean, it's not a complex piece, so that's actually one of the reasons why I chose it. Can you find a photo and share? That so I know what the fuck you're talking about in the in the mini mounts group. Not now like just. Yeah, it should. Yeah, it should do, Absolutely.

I. Want to dictate to you how to live your life on that? What about you, Martin? I have, I guess I'm finished building most of my piece, my entry and I'm and I've airbrushed everything in a colour. I do base coats with airbrush so I've found that. How do you find that? Doesn't it? Doesn't it? Doesn't the paint rub off because it hasn't chemically bound to the model? Chemically bound. When you use airbrush it it melts itself visually bound.

What? It it, it fucking becomes the the plastic when using it. That was spray. It would be amazing. It does, but spray can. I see what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Not with the airbrush, no. Actually, I have found priming with an airbrush, it just doesn't give me the same durability as a spray can. It's true. I've heard people say that. Yeah, that's the one. I've heard people say that it's the same and that they they're absolutely fine everything Primer. Yeah, bullshit. I'm I'm obviously I'm doing something wrong or I'm I should apply 17 coats or whatever, but I'm.

Right. If it's not coming off on your, I found that when I did airbrush it is kind of coming off with my finger. Yeah, it's not quite that bad, but it was definitely like I was trying to do something and it was, it was yeah, it was a little bit shipping, but it'll be fine. So I've I've covered everything in in a color right now. One color for every week. That's more than last week, right? You. You didn't. Oh yeah, quite a lot more. I've been, I've been putting in some hours last week. I need to get on that schedule. I've got well, little under two months today to finish this shit so. Boy, that pressure was.

Piling I'm I'm I'm working with some insane sub assemblies. Like it's every model, every space me it's got separate arms, backpack, head, and also like all the pouches and accessories and shit. I've just left those off because I couldn't decide where they go. I've even painted a bunch of skulls, just skulls separately so I can glue them onto the base separately. You're going hard on the sub assembly, yeah. It's, it's not, it's definitely not the something I would recommend, but I kind of did that with my unit last year and it kind of worked because it just meant I didn't have to, Well, do basically I can, I can airbrush things and I can just work on them separately.

And yeah, you know, the whole thing is going to I'm sure it's going to work itself out in about six weeks when it when I've painted 1 Spaceman and. Then you've got two weeks. Yeah. I mean, what's the word that I was looking for? It's like. No, it wasn't a word. It was actually a phrase. But yeah, it's it doesn't. It would have been a very good antidote thing that I was coming up with. Then it would have, we all would have laughed. Actually, I think quite or, or or a smirk. It probably wouldn't have been an laugh. It it I'm I'm buying time to try and think of it in my head, by the way, while I talk to this. But yeah, I got nothing.

How's that working? It's it's really fucking annoying when you just have it in your brain and you can almost feel it like it's tactile that you and you just know that you just, you just need to get to that little reminder of what was. It was it a comment on the madness of my process? It was like you were, I was you and then you said this thing right where you were like you were like, I'm not even joking. That's what's so weird about this is even even the thing that I was thinking of that reminded me of the thing that was there. I've lost it.

There's a book I've been reading. It's called Mr. Forgetful. OK, That's what it's just happened now. It's a kids book by Mr. Men. Yeah. But it was really a fuck it. I don't even want to think about it. It's frustrating. I'm glad that you're painting again. Oh, cheers. Yeah, I'm glad I'm painting just this. I've got other projects like that. I'm sort of trying to maybe it looks like get a little bit of head head on so I so I'm not completely fucked after TD. But no, it's not. It's not the best idea to have several things going at once. I should put all of the other things in a locked suitcase somewhere and never.

Look at it again and enjoy it. Otherwise you'll start taking Ritalin SO. I think what I'm, what I am actually gonna do, which is again, a little bit connected to what we were talking about with like staying in the moment and all that stuff. Painting the thing that's right in front of you. I think if I do paint in sub assemblies, which I do and I will, I'm just going to put all the other pieces like literally where I can't see them when I'm painting. So I've just got the piece that I'm working on. I think this was yeah. And I'm, I'm just going to do the thing because now I've got like, it's still like a whole spaceman body.

So it's not like a Spaceman finger and then I can just do that and then finish it. A space room finger would I'd be genuinely impressed I I. Think that if they were, if that was an easy sub assembly and I could like pin it to something, I would pin it separately. Great. Yeah, my GDGWG. What is it? GD Golden Demon? I did. I did actually get the model at the basement. Nice. But I looked at it and I was like, fuck, I want to do this really well. I might, I, I can, I can't. I just know I'm not going to do it. I know I won't.

I I don't I I'm not even going to lie, I know I'm. Come again? No, no good. Oh. I just thought you stole your lips Smooth. Yeah. I'm not. We did it again. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not going to do it. I would like to. I like the idea of it, but the reality? Is. Do you want to see what model it is? No. OK, it's a surprise. It's like my my wife on the first night we met. She can wait till we get home. Yeah.

So just like, so that leads me to the Elder project. This is a quick update. OK, 90 Guardians. That's it. 990, Yeah, 90. I've been, I've, I've built them all now. Like as I started last week, right when I was on the and that's the last 10. And now I need to undercoat them and put the heads on, etcetera. It's fucking nice. And I'm going to a tournament on Sunday and I'm just going to unleash the. List. Do you have a list with 90 guardians? Yeah, I could.

If I had 120 then I would have done it, I think, but I didn't want to. I didn't want to build 90 or 120. I I had 20. So I will say I'm only building 70. That's all right then. And I've I've I've based I need to base them and paint them basically or something. Basing and painting, even if it's just with three colors. 90 Guardians makes me I don't even I I cannot explain it with words. Well, to to to to to to alleviate your, your like, so this bloke, right, blah, blah, blah. Don't show the video.

Fuck you, right? This guy, the guardian, he's going to be spray can. Holding up a guardian? Yeah, you spray can. Right red it's it's a samhine guardian. The head spray can white not on the model. Glue the head on. Fucking black. Black eyes black. Done. But. And that's what you're doing. You're not shading or anything. Nah. Fuck that shit. I ain't got time. I've got 90 guardians. But what I do have to do is I've had to glue obviously every single base with sand, and I'll have to paint every single base and I won't even use an airbrush.

How well have you cleaned mold lines on those? Sorry, what are they? Sorry, I hear you breaking up mate. Yeah, that's what you're saying. Because that that's always my big, well, not, not the only thing, but if every time I think, wouldn't it be fun to play like a tier knit army with like 700 gaunts or something? And then I think, you know, I could airbrush them and use contrast paints but building even like 5 would take me, I mean hours. You need to let go of your of any predisposition on this needs. This is not going to be shit. Yeah, for for gaming, it's another mindset. I wouldn't even consider removing more lines in my gaming.

Like that's controversial. Who cares? So what I've done here is you might notice basically to to summarize, these are not exactly. These are old models that like I'm using, it's a fucking mismatch. It doesn't matter. As long as you know what model they are, I don't care. And I'm quite proud of the fact that I've been using like this is a dire Avenger body. These are guardian legs from 1990 9 and the arms are from the new guys because in the kit you get the guardian store and the storm.

So you can, as long as you have the bodies, you can split. And so I've I've really, I think this is the closest to adventurous or inventorous. It's not a word. Inventiveness. Inventiveness that I've I I'm very fucking proud of my ability to use the bits I've had around the house to build 90 guardians. Basically very proud, so I'll let you know how that's when it goes in the next term. That's good. Though I can I can actually kind of relate to that level of fuckedness with how you're painting them, because that's that's below even what I would.

I wouldn't I wouldn't even show that to anyone. Wow, I would barely I would go like this. Is this is just painted enough that I was allowed into a tournament? Right, yeah, I let go of. Them you should be. Sorry, what? He should be ashamed of himself. Just no, what I'm wondering, I don't think that Jamie is ashamed and I and I respect that. I don't think you should be. I don't think that you should feel any shame or that you've done anything wrong because you're painting 90 guardians like a real and you found a way to do that.

But I am curious are now because you've you've got some Blood Angels that you play games with and you claim to have painted them to like a game and standard. As well the the audacity. It takes 3 gaming. Standards. Is it a gaming standard army? Is it something that you're like? Yeah. It's a public gaming standard army. You wouldn't. Have some positions with it. Not it's not. It's not. Share your sanguinal. No, that's enough. It's just one mini. But The thing is when when you are a professional painter, you know what works and what doesn't paint a lot of hours.

So you can do a lot with very little. And my the only appealing thing that my army has. Is that it's tiny? No. Maybe more any any any place are now when I play legitimately 5 people will come up and and more sometimes and just go fuck I saw your army from across the table. I just had to come and see it. Yeah, but but we agree that there's nothing else other than just shining. Right. It's nice. There's nice.

That stuff that makes it look old, like used weathering. Yeah, but there's, there's a couple of scratches literally done with one collar and if you're blind and then. You can be the judge. That's that's. Actually the best way the entire army, but I haven't really seen anything up close. I like the way I was chastised for getting up and both you fuckers have got up in this episode. I know we shouldn't do this, but you know, it's just, it's just that, right? Oh, is it? Is it actually shiny? It's metallic red. It's literally shiny. I see. I see.

But but everything else is just base coat and wash. There's not even a second highlight. It's just base coat and wash. And then there's obviously a few scratches and sheet, but but that's it. It's nothing else. It's a high end, yeah. It's not. Fuck you. And when you and you when and when you've painted that you're like very comfortable in what you're trying to do. You're not like, oh, this looks like shit, but it's OK, You'll have you'll have to do. What do you I'm? Super proud of my army, I mean. It's, I mean Jimmy could be as well. I'm not saying anything else.

It's just I know from. Saying that you, you, you, you would struggle to let go of your. This is a good thing, yeah. Yes, and I know this because I have painted stuff for gaming which I, I don't gain, but I've, I've let myself be tricked into thinking I'm going to play games and I've done that. And every time that I've been, I've come up against like, well, this doesn't look very good and I need to fix it. And having to convince myself that I don't every little detail. So everything that I painted for gaming is is better than it should be, and not in a good way.

In a way, yeah. I understand that. And I, I dealt with that many, many, many, many years. I always wanted to have painted armies and I always tried to do really good and I never had any painted armies because of that, right. So at one point I, I thought, well it's either having a painted army or trying, trying to do good. So I I prefer to have a painted army. We would pay a lot though as well so you need. It I don't have, I don't have to prove anything to anyone. It's just my gaming shit.

It's not even my, it's not even the same hobby. It's just, it's right. It's another hobby. Yeah, it's interesting. I've thought about exactly that thing of like not basically giving up on having like an heavy metal style painted perfect army where I can really be proud of every model and say like, yeah, this is just about as good as I can paint like it. It should be pretty obvious that that's impossible and insane. We we would all love to have that, but it's materially impossible.

But that was, that was my literally where I wanted to get and thought I I should get when I was like 18, I was looking at in, you know, White Dwarf and all these like the fewest sources of inspiration we had. It was like, well, that's what an army looks like. And it, it, it was literally it. I can still have a, a tiny remnant of disappointment from that time and of like, well, it sucks that I can't have that because like you said, it is literally impossible. And also I, I should probably remind myself, no, no one person has that army that doesn't exist.

That's like the studio army. My my realisation came from after 20 years of painting, so I literally started my army last year. Oh yeah. I just was completely fed up with not having an army and that overcame my necessity of impressing people. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. No, that's good. That's good. I did. I did think I'm going to try to maybe get into Kill Team and and try to apply that same we've we should.

We should do a kill team off, I would love that to say. I've played Kill Team. It's really fun. It's it's really cool if they. Release some sort of sorry mate, sorry, sorry. No, I was just going to say all the stuff that they put out for Kill Team. Now I I love it. I think most of the most of the teams are great, Yeah. If they release some sort of elder based kill team with a couple of models or something then I think I'll then we could. Definitely what's available for Eldar now it's the Striking Scorpion, the core affairs obviously, which are kind of don't count shit. Is that it? There's nothing with like.

Corsairs actually could be fun to paint if you actually treat them as models, not just. What could be? 60 points. The Corsairs, I actually think they're. Cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. If you if you want a little bit of a slightly up painting challenge from what you're doing with your 90 guardians, I think courses could be cool. They're quite detail. 40 Corsairs as well so. One thing I've found sorry this is just a last random thought about army painting. What I one thing I have found some armies if you paint every part of the model in just a base coat and you put no effort whatsoever but you just pick it out in one base coat, everyone model will still take 4000 hours because of how detailed they are. So this is Jean Steeler, Colts leagues of Voltan. Not if you do the color the.

What's the contrast? Paints no. Yeah, sure, sure. I mean, obviously you can paint like the armor and the pouches and the little cables in like 1 color that you know no one's going to kill you for it. But it's insane how many how much sculpted detail there is on those Jean Steeler cult compared to say you know, a tier need hormigant which is just. All organic, I thought. You were talking about technically, yeah. No, no, no. I mean, like the the Yeah, exactly. The genes are called hybrids, the people guys. But if you paint like a gene stealer, just an actual gene stealer, you could pretty much drown that in contrast paint and it would look OK.

It wouldn't have like a Why isn't this grenade painted a different color? I actually painted, we used to do some challenges here in the podcast, which were called taskmasters and no, yeah, nobody in this podcast. We did it. We. Did them other than me. Sometimes we did it and once I painted the hormone with contrast and I loved it and I have it in my cabinet because and it looks pretty recent. He did it in like an hour or some shit, right?

Right. First rule of the new podcast. No showing cameras. Exactly. Well, this you can't. It looks. Bad. Yeah, that's not bad. That is not bad. That's cool. You've got color transitions and and highlighting. It's really nice and if you had like 30 of those on a table, Bosch. But don't you think because every time I go to Warhammer world, although we are and I see like the lined up squads, you actually want less detailing on a unit of 10 mass times 10. You don't want to have every single one, I think painted to the highest standard, like not the highest standard. It's not the right thing to say.

If you were to paint every detail and highlight everything with a proper like Xenotaur, whatever, I don't know, like it would. The squad becomes easy, but it'd be harder to digest, I think, than when you see a squad. Yeah, you're full of shit. Yeah, cool. Let's put it to the test then. When we do our kill teams after Golden Demon, right? That's what we'll do. I would, I would absolutely love to the challenge or whatever if, if, if we follow through. Yeah, well, what we do is. We'll each of us about like 5. €100 into an Ischaban or something, right. And then if we don't paint that we so we're paying ourselves to paint and then as long as we finish in time, then we'll get that money back.

Just that that's actually smarter. Like how much more motivation could you need than like to? I don't have that much spare capital, but yeah, right. So this is the newest segment. OK. The things things I hate is we can do that next week because it will open up too much because, yeah, too much. Sounds like a four or five hour segment just on its own. So it's. Really good, right? So the the grot. What's it called? Oh, OK, here we go. Grot Busters, Right, This is it. And then the show's over. We're fucking right, grot Busters. Now what could it possible?

I don't, you shouldn't. I don't know what I'd make you guess what it is. Have you heard of ATV show called Blockbusters? English from the 70s? Yeah. Oh, well, basically, you would, you would you would get a screen and it would have letters and then you you'd get a clue. OK, a cryptic clue. And then you would have to guess what that thing is. So an example might be like, I fucking don't know, but I'll give you my example because I wrote an example. OK, shit, when did I write it? OK, here you go. So I give you the initials and it's all Warhammer 40K related.

I just will. I'll carry out. We can maybe branch out once you guys get your footing. So the initials are HT OK. And the cryptic clue is why is the leader of that hive so cruel? So what? Cruel. Hive Tyrant did. You get it on now, right HT Yeah, I thought I thought there'd be more like excitement for the new segment. Well, that's fine, That's fine, right. So I'm.

Excited that I I got a point, but really quick. Well, yeah. This this is actually, I don't think this is for you 2. I think this is you. Can you 2 think of the answers and come back next week and the viewers listeners will e-mail in or put it in the in directmessagemeinthemotherfuckingminimattersthingsojamie@hotbot.com is the e-mail address. We used to have a We do have a mini matters one but I can't remember. It's probably like info@minimatterspodcast.com or. Something, well, they could do it in this code, right? No, because then everyone else will see the answers. So nobody will e-mail you. Oh, now it's the rules, OK? And we're going to have you guys sort out the prize. All right?

Whoever gets it, whoever gets the correct answers. There's no price. We don't have any money. OK, So Are you ready? But don't answer. OK, so the first one cryptic clue is, well, the initials LR. OK, I've written them down. Where's the fruit going in such a hurry? OK, the fruit. Where's that fruit going in such a hurry? OK, the next one. He's not a good one.

He's not a good one. And that's the initial A OK, good. That's very cryptic. Both of these are cryptic clues for the same LR, no? No, no, no, first one was LHLR and it's where's that bloody fruit going? Tell him to slow down. Like, where's he going? OK. And the next one is is a oh. Just a. And it's he's a bad one. Oh, no shit. He's a good one. So he's a, he's a, he's not a good one, is the clue. He's not a good one.

Is that it? Yeah. He's a good one or he's not a good one. Yeah, that's not that's not terribly difficult. Now, Jamie, you've kind of. Yes, I know he's not a good one. You're the right one, right? That's fine. Yeah, OK. And the last one is LR and they're, they're shipping off to war like across the sea. They're going, they're they're going to war away, like far away on a different. Yeah, just like LR. SO2LR. Just oh, yeah, yeah, that's true. Look at that, right.

Are you? Should we write them down? I might write them down as well for people the. Clicks. I've written them down. I think this very seriously. OK, are now you got them all? We have to answer the next, next, yeah. Next week you can you 2 can answer well in the segment and and you could either write them down and then hold the paper up because I don't know if you 2 will cheat, OK, or just say it and I trust you, but I don't know if I do because you both want to win. And then you 2 can have a, you 2 can have a yeah, competition amongst yourselves. And we can have the listeners coming up giving us the here's the clues. All right, so that's it.

That's the that's the Grot Busters. I like it. I like the new segment. I think it's cool. Yeah, a little bit more attractive and and I'm going to come up with a new segment where you 2 are going to battle against each other. Pass this to the buzzer and it will be like, I need to think of it. I had I had a name earlier which was I maybe, but I forgot the name now. We we did one with Lionel that I think no, no, it was actually pretty cool. I think it was with Lionel that one of his daughters. Yes, yes.

Described. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Described a mini and we had to we had to guess. A Mini. It was, and that was actually pretty cool. Yeah. If you could do that with Poppy, for example, that would. Be where she describes it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She'd love that as well. Yeah. And then we play the audio back basically to the list. Yeah, that's exactly. What happened to you? And then and there was actually in the earlier days when we were more creative until we hit our, our, you know, Lionel was like, I fucking hate you all and I hate more.

We were on aquatic. We were we had a good creative like season 1 was. I think really it was good stuff, right? We weren't just run-of-the-mill. We were like, we were having fun. Lionel was smiling. You know. I started listening back to to season 1. Really. Do we sound happy? To see if we seem, we seem invested. Yeah, yeah, we were until it all went to shit. So yeah, I, I want to bring back these. I like these. These are the these are the reason why I do the cast for these X segments, right? I don't really care about the boring stuff, even though I've had two massive breakthroughs since we started.

I'm already on episode 3. Well that's it boys. We've broken the two hour mark if we stay on the call for another 5 minutes, so I don't think we should. Probably not call. Two hours. Yeah, easily. Yeah, crazy. That's fine. Well, we started the call earlier and then you all the bloody. Post sure how? How far down your list of subjects did you get? We we haven't done the release of G Cycle, We haven't done Dan de de Dan. We haven't done things I hate. That's three. That's fair. Neither ever moon.

And we haven't done read, but I'm fucking excited to talk about episode 7 that you've watched. Now Martine and I now can actually finish watching the Bloody Rebel Moon. Or we just pretend we because I've not finished episode film 2, I didn't finish it. So now you haven't finished it. I finished it this morning because we were doing the podcast today. And I now came out with a fucking I haven't watched #2 he's, he's English. Yeah, should should we work number 2 or not? Watch half of it like I have now. Yes, watch, yes, watch, watch #2 definitely. If we're going to talk about the because I, I was thinking I need to Google.

Obviously I should just look it up instead of talking about looking it up. But I I'm curious if there's going to be a part three he got, because this is one of those things that cruelly just has cliffhangers at every turn. It's like, well, next thing we need to. I just can't, no. I can't get down, I don't want to go there yet. I've got so much to say on Rebel Moon and it's it's not all negative. Yeah, we need that. Yeah. But wait, wait, wait. Why are you, either of you, desperate to talk about Rebel Moon? Is it? Because it's literally been on the cards for a month like our now's.

Our now or because of more activity or positive. It's just because it was something that I watched the Rebel moon a while ago. Not, not too long we're. Going We're going to be Rebel Moon now. Then well. Tiny little. And then I thought, why would? Because we were. We were not finding things to talk about. We we didn't know what to do with the podcast about. And I and I watched the movie and I said, oh, this movie fits very well. Like it's, it's a movie thing which we want to talk about. It's some, it has Warhammer related somehow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So we should really talk about. This not anything you're saying now because that's for next week, but this is good. Good shot, good shot, good shot, good shot. Well, thank you everyone for this illustrious episode. I'll see you boys in a minute when we hang up on the show and we talk outside of. Nice. Breaking the illusion. Cheers guys. Cheers. Bye, Thanks. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.