Painting Courses: Why most people fail to learn

Mini Matters MHN painting podcast. Right boys, we're back week 5 myself, Martin and on. Now I'm skipping the intros. I think people find it boring. Basically I listen back to the podcast and I found it boring. I have to say that the intro I think is is genius. It's a really good intro. Like it's way better than the than we are the. Cast the the that the the literal. Yeah, everything. Like, yeah, Tina talking and whispering and, you know, it's like, it's like, yeah, it's great.

I literally take no credit for that. That was all on her. I did add the Jingle, obviously. Jingles are my remit and that Jingle is actually the first words my daughter ever spoke weirdly. Really. I wouldn't say their words then, they're just harmonic. That's great. A. Little bit of inside of that that's. Clearly this podcast is a case of come for the Jingles day for the podcast but. But jingles first, yeah, Lionel used to have a big, in fact, Lionel used to say, Jamie, are you even?

Do you come up with the name 1st and then come up with the thing that matches it? I haven't, I haven't got, I haven't got really into the really creative rejigging of the of the not jingles segments yet, but it's certainly something I want to do. But at some point we will all have individual jingles as well. I would like that our now our now is in a few. So for anybody who doesn't know, first time listing, we are the mini matters, a miniature and painting podcast, a painting miniature podcast and we are now firmly back in the the realm of miniatures. I do believe. I think, I think that's fair to say, right? Yeah, I think so.

I think, I don't think we ever talked as much as miniatures of miniatures as we did in the last five podcasts in three or Four Seasons. Yeah, well, 22 this is the third two, but yeah. And then what I particularly like is that we expunged our now and eyes little foray into our own That's gone. You can't hear those anymore. Like if you heard it, it's it's like it never happened. But for the for the show, we've obviously got the well, the meat of it actually is AQ and a from 2 weeks ago or last week.

And it's basically our painting course is worth it. I think it might be more nuanced, but that's the this is. Slightly more nuanced, but yeah. And the Q&A is filling up actually I'm I'm pretty happy with that. So we're getting more Q&A's from the boys for people. Well, I don't think we've got any Q and as from any girls, we've got GD hype. Of course. We've got things I hate, which is always there, and then we've got the things that we never do. Rebel Moon Elder Project, Down to the land and the release cycle someday. Someday we'll do it, maybe, maybe it will be the cliffhanger for the season like we'll we will about to do it and then we will leave it for the fourth season, Episode 1.

Or we'll do like a Christmas special and that will just cover the do you know what I mean? Or so we've been. Or it will be a patron only like end of season special special super secret podcast in it. Endlessly end of season 3 hour. Just rebel moon. Jesus. We might do a watch along. Actually, just watch those extended. Like 7 hours and then seven hours and just comment semi wasting your life. Please let us know if you want us to watch things and comment them live for hours on them. I think our Lionel, our now and I, who is he? Lionel?

And I did one of them because he hadn't seen the starties video when it came out. And I was like, Lionel, mate, you've got to fucking watch this. And he was like, what is it like? I don't care. I was like, no, you've got to watch it. And then we watched it. But I don't know if that's true. I do think it's a, it's a pretty good class that we do have planned today and it's just nice to be back with you 2 to be honest, you know? Yeah, I was looking forward to it, yeah. I did message on now in the week and I said oh shit, there's another topic we're going to discuss is the elder model shit.

Well, that's that's about that's on the things you hate. No, Oh, OK, no, I don't hate that, that that doesn't count. That's that's something I really hate. That's like. Those things you really hate? Yeah, I can't put that in there. That's like the the things I hate. Where do you want it? Where do you want it? In the list of topics then. It could be an extra right, It could be an added because because we, we, we things got a bit heated on WhatsApp. I insulted Albert a few times and he wasn't even in the conversation. And then Arnaut and I discussed, I think I private messaged him. I just said, look, Albert, you're a piece of shit. What did I tell him?

I can't remember. Wasn't it the wasn't it the Golden Demon group that I did it? What did you That was it, that was it. Lionel's discussing if he's going to come without going into details on Monty. And yeah, there was a whole. Discussion about Lionel's like training regime that seems to have spiralled from the elder conversation but was definitely not related. No, but al al al, Albert took some shots there, didn't he? Oh, and also Albert and fucking unbelievable. Oh, now.

And Albert don't like good comedy, right? So they, they, they prefer like The Muppets or like something slapstick, like a really obvious joke. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Wait a minute, see, I, I, I want to say right now, without knowing anything else about our now, I know that he likes It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, which is the peak gold level quality comedy show of all time. The office you want to like that? Is. You cannot. You cannot call this. Man, man of. Culture that that that might be why I don't like, I mean, I mean, I've never seen it. So I can't actually, I can't actually discuss it. The fact that you don't like it is probably because you've never seen it I.

Yeah, well, I've seen some some crappy little like segments in in. Yeah, that's that's that's not the show that you can watch in the segments. You need to binge it. You need to weather the first few episodes, even the first season, and then as soon as Danny DeVito comes in and you get. Oh, Mr. Danny's not in there, is he? Not the first. Season, it's not. But then when Danny DeVito gets in, everything spirals. Like, yeah, everything gets weird. Then I'm weird. I did like, I liked District 99 and I assume it's like that. You mean Brooklyn 99 Brooklyn?

9 We've been have we've been through this before? I feel like we've been through this before. 9 is a movie about shrimp, aliens and. I was so I was thinking, I don't, I don't see it. More of a regulated com. It just doesn't have a life track. What were you saying right now? I don't see Danny de Vito with aliens like. Nothing. I mean, he looks a bit like an alien in fantasy. Like, yeah, a little bit. He, he what was the point here? Oh, yeah. Is it anything like Brooklyn 9/9? I I imagine it to be very really. No, Brooklyn 99 is is quite. There's a lot of gags, it's easy to watch, but it's kind of tonally similar to like Parks and Rec and.

I've never heard, although I've had. A crazy guy that does all the show it's. Very very weird, very over the top and and very. What sunny in Philadelphia? Eccentric. Yeah, because the characters are absolute trash. They are worst pieces of shit ever. And and that's the fun thing. They they are very likeable at the end, but they are awful as a human beings like. Yeah, they would never want people and you can't stop watching them just fail at everything. So our lives, basically. I should have said you're.

I should have said you're. Now I I don't, yeah, I don't really need to lump myself in with you guys. I think I should have. I should have said I'm going to retract us. I'm just going to go with you too, like you guys, but. Some somehow this all started with you saying that Albert and Arnow don't like good comedy. It's. True. Yeah, they yeah, Yeah. Well, yeah, Yeah, well. It's something to do with the Eldar. Or have we left that behind? No, that's because we we like the office, the the the the American office better than the UK one. Which is it's, it's like, it really is. I don't think I could have, I don't think I could have like made it like a better.

It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's like, it's like liking a fucking OK. It's like liking McDonald's versus liking like an amazing meal cooked by a professional chef. It's like, yeah, I think the analogy was it's being you're spoon fed. If you like the American office, you like cheap shit basically, like you like you like McDonald's. I do, actually. It's in fairness, I do. It's a bad analogy for me specifically. I went there. I haven't had McDonald's in a long time. And I was like, oh I love chemicals and I really like fake shit like.

I like both the UK and the American office, but they're very different. I think the first couple episodes of the American office are trying too much to be like what they I mean, it's literally the first episode. It's like word for word the same, but then once it starts to be its own thing is kind of fun, but it's very different. I think what one thing about the American American office, they want there to be like good characters and like happy endings. And there's some some feel good aspect to it, like the especially the last couple of seasons and the whole end with Michael Scott and everything you want. They they want you to like feel good about the show. The UK office definitely doesn't want you to feel good about anything.

It's just real life. You or Nicole? Yeah, exactly. And I I really like that. Oh, now Albert said. They've never found anything less funny and. Yeah, we didn't say that obviously. They did. They said. It I, I I read it between the lines right? Like it was like they both said this isn't funny. So what else can you read into that? Do you know what I mean? There's no like it's anyway. So for me, the office is, is one of the greatest like 2 season shows ever produced in terms of quality, not quantity. You know that.

Like for example, it's it's I'll never be able to do it justice. The boss walks in, the girl's eating cheese and he just goes found a lump. Because it also the context right, of the UK office is it's a documentary, it's a mockumentary. So the concept is they literally filmed for like 7 weeks in an office and then they cut together this. So they made like caricatures of each character. You know what I mean? Like if you filmed me for seven weeks and you just put in the one liners probably looking like a racist, sexist, bigot kind of vibe, right? And and you didn't give anyway.

I don't need to explain the best show in the world to you 2 like you know. Yeah, we could go to the middle of it. Yeah, what? What is that again? Do you remember? The question on this card there. Was a question on this card so. Here's my question. You changed it to a question about whether or not it's worth going to painting classes, and you want that answered by two people who literally charge for painting classes. Yeah, we could. We could, I mean, yeah, a couple of we could treat, we could treat the, the. Question Yeah, I I did start so here's my question read. The actual question.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For that and the Jingle, obviously. Oh shit you're right, I'm slacking here. It's like 9 minutes of sleep. Where is it? Oh, I didn't re record it did I? How did you want to meet again? It's a medium rare right? Oh, well done, because no one likes well done meat, Albert. That's a little throwback to Albert. I guess there's. More than meat. It like it's ridiculous how well done he likes his meat. Extremely well done. He like. He tells him I don't want to be able to bite it, I want it to break apart in my mouth. That's what he says.

Like because it's so cooked, it's like a. Yeah, crumb crumble meat. Yeah, it's, it's, it's one of the most vile, disgusting things in the world. And then when he sees my meat, which is is medium rare, I'd get it rare. But like that, not only in a good place, it comes back and it's like slightly pink and it's like, oh, you can see the blood. It's disgusting. So let me let me read it. Here's my questions for those that have attended or hosted in COM in brackets like our now master classes, painting workshops.

What is one way to get the most out of these classes? And what are the common pitfalls you see that are common to your students at Jamie Hupper? Because obviously I'm a student and I'm, I'm, I guess he knows I'm shit. So he's like, what are the pitfalls, buddy? I guess so. So I did. Before we get into this, I I know that you've been to classes. Jamie, have you ever been to classes as a student or no maybe student is a big board. Have you have you been to like any seminars and stuff? I was 12 years ago into one, yeah, but it was a more of an airbrush class. OK.

It was, it was OK, but. Very informative answer there. Oh no thanks mate. No, no, in fairness, I. Was curious about like if we've seen it from kind of both sides because I know that you've been to classes to learn Jamie, I know you've done that. I've done a little bit of it as well. And then are now you now do regular classes as a teacher and guru and sensei. Yes, you do them as well-being. Yeah, yeah, I've been to a lot. Do you have a? Have you thought about, have you thought about an answer to this question?

Because we've had one whole ass week to think about it. Yeah, yeah. And actually this this question has been asked a few times this week in other places and. What are the odds of that? Yeah. In in the Git Good, Git Good channel was asked as well as Git Good. Yeah, it's some podcast guys and they have a Discord as well. Well, YouTube, Yeah, they are good people. So they're they're what they're basically they're trying to be us. Is that what you're saying by copying?

Absolutely. But that means they they, so they listen to our podcast, which is like weird because we only have like 4. No, no. No, it's, it was, it had nothing to do with us. It just that's. What they say No. Yeah. OK Enough, Enough said. Enough said. I, Yeah. It wasn't Discord, it's nothing to it wasn't Discord. It doesn't matter. I wasn't going to to answer the question. So I think that the main thing is that when people go to workshops, they expect to be taught and they expect to be thrown all this information and that you just have to absorb it. And I think it's not like that.

The I, I've seen hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of students and the ones who do really well not long after the workshops are the ones who ask a lot of questions, are very invested in it. They actually chase the knowledge. It's not like they, they wait for it to come to them and they, they really, really make use of you. Like they, they want to get all the information they can from you. They have questions, etcetera. Yeah, put my hand up because I have something to say on this. So any time I've been to a bit and I have, I've done quite a few courses in, in my like 1/18/19 months while I was into it, people get really pissed off when I ask questions like genuinely they would.

And also I'd ask a lot of questions, right? Because I wouldn't understand anything like and I would, I'd ask for explanations, I'd ask for demos and and for sure like visibly and audibly annoyed that I would ask questions. And it's possible. That the the person doing the class was annoyed. The teacher is normally all right with it. Maybe if. And then everyone else there is. Because it would interrupt that maybe the guys teaching, giving an explanation about hang on, how like, how would you do this? What about, you know, how this, how this effects this? And, and it's partly, I don't know, thinking like I hadn't thought of this before, But I'm, I'm wondering if it could also be, first of all, if people know my personality, they think I'm joking.

So they might just be like, ah, why are you trying to derail a lesson? Second of all, they might just, they might already know the answer. Or the third might be they want to hear him talk rather than the questions. So it's interesting that you would get on it. I think you're. Totally right about all of those. Sorry, just to because you, you mentioned like what the other people think of about that behavior. I think you're totally right about all of those. I think some people get annoyed because they're like, I already know the answer to this or they think like, I just want to listen to this genius artist talk and I don't want any questions. And I would say like consistently, all of those people are fucking wrong.

I'm more than happy to have questions of any kind from anyone. Every time the first thing I say when I go to a workshop is that I don't want that to be a talk. Like I don't want to talk. And then just you just listen. It needs to be a conversation because then it's when topics really expand. You know, you get nuances on the topics and most people think they know, but they don't know. So yeah, if if they get annoyed by by people asking questions then I'm really sorry that you don't want to learn but someone does. Totally agree.

I, I really am, I actually am very honoured when someone asks me questions. This guy in, in, in the Blackson workshop, he asked me like he, he was a, a machine gun of questions. He asked me so many, I don't know how many. And every single question was on point was really, really useful. And, and the guy behind, behind him said this guy is really asking the good questions. Like he, he was a very novice painter, but he was really asking the good questions and, and he was getting it at the end because, you know, he was putting the effort into it.

Never thought about putting effort in it's I know it sounds it sounds like it sounds weird to say, but I hadn't I think I might like I didn't enjoy the lessons. I guess we can go into this as a tangent because otherwise I forget it. Like I I never did any lesson where I came out feeling like it was worth it, except for the social side of things. So I love the social right? And here's the. Thing right, Sorry, what?

I think as a as a going as a student, what people get wrong. I've been to a couple of classes and I've seen some people do their thing and I'm just there to to watch and see if I can absorb something. My go to behavior for going to a class like that is the way I was in school. And any person on the planet knows that you, the cool kids, sit in the back and you never ask any questions. And if you sit too close to the front and you ask a bunch of questions, then you're a fucking goody 2 shoes and you're a teacher's pet. That behavior is ingrained in a lot of people when they go even to like painting classes.

And what this person in your Black Sun class obviously did is understand why he was there and you know. Change the behaviour accordingly. He wasn't afraid to ask a bunch of questions and for everyone to see him asking all these questions and being super engaged with the subject because he was honest about the fact that like, why are we actually here? While it like instinctively, lots of people will go to these things and try to be cool and try to just sit there and listen and nod and especially want to appear as if they already know everything you're talking about. So when you say something and they want to go like, yeah, yeah, totally.

I get that. I get that. That's a very important point because there's in workshops, there's a, there's a battle of egos and some, some painters need to display their, their knowledge and their might and skill and, and sometimes they, they, they don't, they can't, they can't. And then you, you teach them something new and, and they fall apart. And that's, that's, it hurts egos. And you know, if you go into a workshop thinking that you will excel and then then you will do what the teacher tells you and that you will do great, you are going with a really wrong mentality. Because the normal thing to do is do it wrong at the first time.

And if you do it right, awesome, absolutely perfect. But it's not, it's not what you're there for. You know, who are you? Yeah, I also felt like I was thinking I'd come out with something concrete, like I learned a lot on on the color theory course, like a hell of a lot. But it wasn't like I learned it in those two days or three days or whatever it was. I think it took time to bed in, understand concepts, reinforce it. But it opened a world for me that I didn't understand before. I did, you know, as I said, I didn't know what a color, a primary color was, not even as a concept. So, so there, looking back, I could understand why the questions, the people there weren't really annoyed in that class in fairness.

But those questions would have been like, I remember Alfonso just being confused. He was like, what do you mean? I was like, but what's the, what is the primary colour? He was like, I don't know, like, and then and then like on the third course with him, I asked what a tertiary colour was. I hadn't heard the word and he'd obviously said it, but I just didn't know what it was. And he was like, what the fuck? Like you've been on three courses and you don't know what a tertiary colour is. So, but so that I can kind of get, but yeah, I went in with, with having expecting. Like, you know, you go to a shop, you, you go in and you leave with something. I kind of thought you go on an M&M course, I'll be able to understand M&M.

I'll go to, you know, colour theory. I'll just know colour like the expert. I'm trying to think of the other ones. I did the the it's a stupid expectation. It's a. It's a good example, but because if you go to to a non metallic workshop, have you ever tried non metallics? If you, if you have, what's, what's the thing that you didn't understand? Why didn't it click when you tried it? You know, if you, if you go to a course and you haven't tried anything or, or had any, any, you know, training or, or test subject, like you haven't even explored your painting, the teacher cannot do that for you. You have to do it yourself.

And obviously they will give you information, but all these comes to reinforce your own exploration. And, and that's, that's a hard truth. That's an awful truth that before the the the information that a teacher gives you, you have to search your own and then you have to explore your and wow, it's 99% you're on exploration and on top 1% what someone can teach you. It's it's just contrary to what everything else is in life except for things that you need practice, for example.

I don't know. I don't know. I think it's, I think it's also the fact that, you know, if you do go to a class in person, if you've got someone like Arnow in the same room as you, like remember what the try to remember the whole point of why you're there and why Arnow is there. It's not just so you can listen to him. You can watch a bunch of YouTube videos of people just describing something and that can be literally any topic. Like you can have someone run down the the fall of the Aztec Empire and still have questions. And if that person is in the room of you, you know, you can, you can, you can get into a conversation.

I just think it's kind of obvious to me that one of the points of having an in person class with someone, whether it's one-on-one or in a group or whatever it is, is that you can like our now says, you can turn everything into a conversation. Now, a conversation doesn't necessarily have to be as it may sound to be derailing from the topic of like, oh, let's just chat that. It doesn't have to be that. But it's great to have questions on the topic that you're discussing and to have. And I mean, I think about this a lot when I'm trying to explain something. Someone asks a question almost like a, you know, like a footnote in a book where someone's like, oh, can you just explain that term? We're like, why is that the thing? And I'll go, OK, quick sidebar.

I'll explain the, I'll answer your question and then get back to the topic. That's actually really good because it probably means it maybe means that I missed something or that I could have explained it a bit clearer. So I, I really like that. I think that's great. And I think again, like it. It's really an, an attitude that more people should remember. It's like, it's fine to ask questions. And I think I was thinking about this, if someone was being really like maybe asking too many questions or maybe the wrong kind, or they seem like they were really not getting it, maybe I would eventually go, you know what, let me just chat to you after I've done this and I'll go through it. And you know, that's totally fine. Everything will work out.

Just it's there's no reason for you to just sit there quietly and hope that like whatever this person says, I'm going to know exactly the same as they do now. I'm going to have all the information. Well, I think you you, I never had expectations or a goal when I went to these things, except for the aforementioned title of the thing, right build bases Eminem. But I think knowing I'm I'm I'm more likening this now to 40K because I've played enough of it recently and I don't know where I felt down in painting anymore.

I'm just a sea of confusion. But for for 40K, like if if I went to a course at the start, which most of the courses I went to, I was when I was starting painting, I wouldn't really know where I need to ask or where I need to improve, right. So most of the questions that were getting asked are from myself. Yeah. I was like, it would just be he'd say something and it just wouldn't make sense to me or I didn't understand it. I didn't have the context in my own experience. Yeah. And now I think maybe if I go like, let's say a gaming course, I'd have, I've got so many specific things that I know are weaker in my mind or I don't understand how to resolve them or if you understand, yeah.

So I'd I'd know more what I want to get out of it rather than what they're going to give me. Exactly. That's absolutely the the the point. When you when you know what you're missing, you can ask for it. If you don't know what you're missing, then you have a, a whole, whole discipline, artistic discipline that you don't know. Then it's very difficult because the person that you have in front hopefully knows a lot, a lot more than you. And he will give you a lot of information that you will not be able to take in. It's it's literally impossible.

I did find the last time I had a class of a bunch of people that the people that asked most questions were the ones that did know what they were. Yeah. Usually, that's usually the case when someone asks a bunch of questions. It's kind of what Arnell is saying about NMM. If you've tried it a bunch of times before and you go to an NMM class, you're going to have built up a bunch of questions, a reserve of things that you can't quite figure out. Or maybe you're the best in the world at NMM, but you still want to bounce that off of someone else. Whereas if you're, you know, someone sitting there completely quiet, my instinctive thinking is like, you probably don't really know what I'm talking about. That's why you're quite.

I'm always very relieved when I see when I see someone with a certain degree of not necessarily knowledge, but experience at least trying things. And then you can see how how they are not afraid to try and test. Because then I know that this this person will not be afraid of asking, will will really be familiar at least with with the topic etcetera. It makes me excited to do courses right. I don't paint and I don't have anything that I like.

I'm so far away from knowing where my shortcomings are. I have a rough idea. I don't understand volumes. I feel like that's a that's a course that's like a 10 week a project where you're learning rather than teach me volumes. Do you know what I mean? It's. It's actually, but it's also something that you've got to practice yourself. Sorry, I think I now can answer this much better. But I would say with volumes as with a lot of things you you're never going to get to and like and there's no on and off switch of getting that, yeah. Yeah, That's that's, that's the hard truth. Yeah. But I, I think it's, it's a somehow easy topic. I think it's, I mean, it's, it's an extremely complex topic. Extremely for me, it's probably the most complex topic of all. But the principles of it are, are quite simple. And every time I do a worship and I explain this, I always say this is extremely complex, but you will get it. But then you will not apply it because because getting it is very simple.

It's, it's actually, if, if explained in a recent way, it's extremely simple to understand. But then translating it and processing it in your head is very difficult. And that's when practice comes in. Because you will not, you will get, the first time you try, you would get 1%, the second of five, the third of 15. And then every single time you get more and more and more. But you, you still need that seat, you know, And then you have to put some water on it, I think. I think that's the interesting part of it, the, the percentages are, I don't want to go too specific in volumes and how frustrating I found it, but I was trying to do N&M right when I didn't understand volumes. So it's like you're, you're basically trying to jump off a, a jumbo jet with, you know, bird wings, but you're a person. Basically.

You'll hit the floor and most likely, yeah, you won't. You won't fly. Yeah, but also. But also, this is the thing like you're it's, it's going back to what we were talking about like 95 episodes ago of expectations. You have to know what to expect and what to expect from yourself. If you you're talking about like failing at NMM and yeah, it's probably going to look a bit shit. But like, how else are you going to learn how, what else this practice if not failing? Yeah, yeah, I find this with my own work all the time, even after 25 years of painting. It's like I have to be OK with doing something and and it being shit.

There's no other way. Actually no, literally no other way of of getting better is just just do it and have it be shit and then see how you can improve it. Well, the good I find this all the time. Sorry, go. On no go. On I, I find this all the time when people don't want to try something and then it's like, yeah, but I always tell them that if you want to learn something, you have to do it. I mean, you are not going to learn non metallic painting skin. You are going to learn skin painting skin and non metallic painting non metallic. But people are, are very afraid to fail.

And, and it's, it's like it's very difficult to understand sometimes that if you don't fail, you don't, you don't progress. It's, it's an integral part of learning. It's like, it's inevitable. Like do you think you will get your whole life succeeding at everything you try? It's like almost. Yeah, it's stupid. Even stupid thinking about. That that's why the Epiphany episode came in so poignantly, Was that because of the teachers I had around me?

I say teachers, they, they want you to do well when your mates OK align and want you to stop Elder and you, you, you want to see this fixed progression or at least some progression rather than, you know, a wall. A wall isn't really a rule. It's just you. You're, you're, you're just learning more slowly or you're, you're trying to do something so big and hard and you're used to the expert. We, we, we've been through this. We literally had this conversation right. So it is still relevant. Is it, it definitely relates to this going to courses because it's, it's the same thing about where, what, how do you see learning? How do you see that working?

I do think people sometimes expect to learn something and then be good. Like there's a 2 sort of 112 step, you get good at it and then you just do it and you're great. But like, no, that is a organic growing process and you will never be like, oh, this model is terrible. And then I'm going to learn a bunch of things and then the next one I do is going to be perfect. Like never. That's it's never going to be perfect. And that's totally fine. None of us will ever paint anything. I mean, you know, not to be that guy, but like we're never going to paint anything.

Go wow, this is perfect. There's nothing I could ever have done that's. Bailey knows his own daughter. It's not like it's not like every single model will be considerably better than the next one. You probably not even that you. Probably will not see the difference between 1 and the next. And will you maybe even do worse in some at some point? That's absolutely normal too. It's it's about the the long process. It's like going to the gym, which is something I don't do. We do so why we'd go to the gym of the mind. It's like not. The gym of the mind, yeah. The painting team.

So it's it's about the long, the long game, yes, you cannot think about short, short. Time, but it but it all still comes back to the expectations because if you're expecting like I need when I paint, when I start again, I'm going to paint for fun and I'm not going to paint for this. Learning by definition, by going on a course, you're telling yourself that you want to improve tangibly. So there's a slightly different mindset in that. Like I paint for pan, I paint for pan.

I've been painting for fun for a year. I want to get a bit better because I'm frustrated. I, you know, I'm enjoying my painting, blah, blah, blah, rather than I get and I'll go on a course and I'll just be happy and I'll try and improve the process of enjoying it and advanced techniques, whatever versus fuck, I'm, I'm really enjoying getting better at painting and I want to keep that curve going up. That's where I was at. I think, you know, I've had big breakthroughs where all of a sudden one model went from it's good to Oh shit, that's actually a really nice model and now I need to keep feeding that. It's not an addiction, but the feeding the the train of improvement. I think that's where I basically was at with my courses. Yeah, it's silly to get to make that toxic. That's it's well, you don't know it's I don't think that was the. No, no, of course it's not bad.

It's not a bad thing while it works, but then when it doesn't it becomes toxic and it it poisons you a little bit. Every, every learning curve has a plateau as well. Whether you're learning guitar or going to the gym, you're going to get to a point where you're much, much better than you were maybe six months ago, a year ago, two years ago. And maybe you're not seeing that incremental improvement every single time. I, I honestly, if anyone's kind of wants a good metaphor for this, just look at like you just mentioned going to the gym. Look at people on like Instagram telling you how to train, what to eat, what exercises are best.

And actually consider how much that's helping you versus going to the gym and just consistently going there. Like if you go three days a week and you do Bree, you would take it from something like Iron Hands. And if you wanted a high volume? I don't know anyway, right, sorry that's the second time it's happened right And and I know and and think you didn't hear. I had a YouTube on the computer and I've got Bluetooth headphones and I took one ear out because it was getting a bit tired getting a bit digging in there. What did? You. Learn a number of Thunder. White. Cavalry to act as the backbone to his list.

Very close combat. Enjoy that again. We're back. We're back. No, no, I just, I think, I don't know. I had it pause on the rock where they didn't. Cut off where was. I I don't know, I'm so bamboozled by it. And now the irony is the because it took so long, the ear doesn't hurt anymore. That's good for the listeners. Where are now? Come on, save it. Where were we? I have. No clue. Look, I was, I was trying to make an analogy about going to the gym. The whole point is that like, nothing will actually make as much difference as doing it.

It was a great analogy actually, because I feel like. The same kind of thing. It's like, I don't know if you want to make a parallel between army painting and like playing football with your mates and then training in the gym very, very consciously and read like writing down your weights and eating well as being, you know, up levelling up your painting or some, some bullshit. But like, the point is you're not going to get as much out of learning about it as just doing it, whatever it is. Yeah, that was kind of it. I guess maybe for someone who who is who is on Instagram and they feel like they're being bombarded with a lot of information all the time. Like there might be the occasional light bulb moment. Yes, sure.

And going to courses might give you lots of that. Because I was just thinking about what you said, Jamie, about that commitment. Like I really do think that going to classes and even, you know, courses over several days and all kinds of these different things that you can learn from is is it that might really be helpful for you. You might get loads of new information that you never had before, but nothing is like actually going to change in your painting from that. So I think it's it might help you do before you go. But you still have to do them. I had an interesting caveat to agree with with with what you were saying. I think it was about the so in the Warhammer I'm playing this guy who's probably the best Warhammer man in the world, right?

I spoke about him before He's he's definitely some sort of weird savant when it comes to 40K. Like he knows all the armies, he knows all the rules and he can picture like 5 rounds in his head because he knows that that unit can kill this unit. So he will have to move here to kill this. So I can predict three moves ahead and be in a position so that he, because he, I know he'll have to kill this unit that I'm going to expose and turn to blah, blah, blah, right. So it's easy to talk, but the, the to do it in a game, it's just bonkers. But, and I've been playing him now for a year and I'm, I've basically now realized in the last like month, two months that I'm not, I'm not learning anything because I'm getting destroyed early doors, right? He'll, he'll, he'll kill me turn two or three. So I, I, I can never get out of that cycle. And the not this is an analogy.

Maybe the point here is if you set your expectations to be. Competing with the world's best and you never have a, a chance to actually say I'm going to do what I can do. Then I think you're you'll hit a wall self-imposed quite quickly because I was looking at I was, you know, I was with Alfonso. I had social media whenever I was trying to find a reference to something that I wanted to paint copy. Like I said, I copied, tried to copy your stuff on now before I knew you painted it. And so I was, I was setting that as my expectation. If it wasn't looking like someone who's done it for the last 10 years and they're professionally painting, I wasn't happy, which meant I was always chasing and getting frustrated.

And so even, I guess the point here was even if you're painting or in my case playing, it's not enough to just do it. I think you have to do it in the right way with the right focus, like and, and and not focus on the wrong things. But it might take you a while to learn that you're focused on the wrong things, like it did for me. It's taken me six years to work a house for painting. But also I wasn't talking about it for six years. But yeah, I'm realizing now with the Warhammer, I'm I'm trying to pay people more my level and then play him as well, rather than only playing this guy. He's destroying me.

He gives me a brief explanation, which he can't explain well enough to my level because he's like, will you just do this? And I'm like, no, I I can give you the theory. I don't. I want to know. And I ask and I try and dig into it, but I'm trying to go, like, way above where I'm at. Yeah. No, but it's a good it's a good comparison because it's about kind of learning from people that you you can actually speak to, I guess getting answers from someone that is on your level. And that's not to say that someone who isn't painting as well as are now shouldn't ask him questions, but I I definitely I get the comparison. It's a it's useful to try to absorb information from people that yeah, you can actually get something from. Well, it's, it's when you're learning. Also, usually the learning curve is not a learning curve. It's a learning staircase.

So you, you, you need some plateaus where you get bored of your own stuff and then you want to learn. But having, being comfortable and doing your own things are also very important. So you, you need both, you need the, the plateau stage where you are comfortable and, and solidifying your, your own things. And then when you're bored of that, you just step up, but, and then you solidify that too. And then, you know, keep doing it, solidify it, solidify it and then step up again. And I felt that very much when I was when I was learning where some there were months that I just didn't want to push.

I was tired of it. I just wanted to paint without any need of real improvement. Obviously some things will improve naturally because you keep painting. But then other times I was just desperate to try new things and, and have a headache every time I painted just because I was bored of what I was doing. So I feel like this is also a natural thing and, and it's some people are afraid of plateaus and I, I think that's, it's a, a completely natural step and necessary to get bored of, of your own, you know, your own painting. You're probably also like really firmly, like screwing in that knowledge to your brain, making it second nature, if you get what I mean.

Like the boldness comes, I guess, a bit after you've done that. But like, if you are on the stairs and yeah, you've been learning and now you're like, shit, I need to subconsciously I'm going to just do what I'm learning and have, Yeah, fuck it. So shit's analogy. I'm just saying what you said. But yeah, I'm, I'm basically where I'm at that now with 40K where I'm like, I, I learnt for so long and I'm tired of losing every game and having to try and pretend to learn and I don't want to. I just want to enjoy the game for a while. It's your fault on now, by the way, that that happened. My fault.

Well yeah, when we played I was like oh shit, This is why I got into Warhammer, because we hadn't played in like 8 months, right? And I went from our first two games of me being in my serious mode without knowing it. Yes, yes, yes. And then I I had a subconscious deliberate, I didn't realize I was doing it break to I just want to enjoy it again. And I lost the next three games. I think for me, I don't know, like like it was. Yeah, but I see it now. It was pretty clear in, in, in that. And, and now I'm, I'm taking this guardian list, which is crazy to the tournament, which like I'd always thought, I never ever thought looking back like 6 months ago that I'd go to a tournament without the most serious list. So I'm, I'm quite happy about, yeah, I like, I'm going to go and I'm, I'm probably more confident in my own enjoyment performance because I'll enjoy it, if that makes sense. Like I don't need to take this extremely performant list that I'm going to have to really think every single turn and go out of my way to like play the

perfect game. Now I'm like I'm pretty sure I can perform OK. Like decent, not bottom, nowhere near the top. Like mid table probably. But I'll enjoy every game unless I play some massive cunt. I think this also relates to and I honestly think we should just table this, do a little cliffhanger here, not discuss this right now because it's a much bigger conversation, but this relates to painting competitions, which is a whole other discussion. I've got a dummy. It's not a mic, but mic drop there. Yeah, which again, we're not going to get into it now because it's a way bigger thing, but it's, it's that definitely, definitely relates to your expectations of yourself.

And also the whole idea of, I mean, comparing yourself and having yourself and your work be judged because it's always funny funny. But it's like weird to me when we talk about, you know, oh, you, you shouldn't compare yourself to someone, anyone else. And it's like, well, that's literally what painting competitions are. Literally that's what it is. It's impossible to not compare yourself to someone when you're having like a judge say, well, this is better than that, you know, But again, that's a, it's a very different it's, it's a whole other level. Because what we're what we're really talking about with regards to the painting classes is just you're kind of evolving in relation to what how good you want to be and how how good you want your stuff to look, which can still exist in sort of a not a vacuum, but just for yourself and for like showing off your work to friends or whatever.

Painting competitions are not for everyone. It shouldn't be. So if if you feel like you don't want to enter gold demon ever in your life, then kudos. Yeah, I. Love it. I do fucking love it. Right. Well, that was a nice meat of it. It was beefy, a beef meat dish. So do we move now to the veg of a bit? The veg of it, that's what I'm what, what is it? What's the veg of it then? Just everything else, right? Or it could be your your Eldar fight. Oh no, I know.

I don't have the energy for that. I'm I'm still too angry about our now saying that it's a good sculpt. We should do. We can do Q&A in a minute. We could do the things I hate, right? We don't have a Jingle for that. It's I've got to do the film review as well, haven't I? I'm looking forward to. That got to, I don't know. Yeah, what even? Which one even are you doing? The film review where I tell you I'd give you like a 22nd, like it would be something like this. Like I could do a film review on like Lord of the Rings, for example, something that we've all seen, right? And I'll do the fellowship because it's not shit, right? And I'll go basically, and it's important that everybody's seen the film or not possibly.

And I'll just be like, yeah, it's, it's fundamentally like 4 little basically hobbits because they're not dwarves who were like thick fast friends. They they've got to go on like a trip. Like that is really good at the beginning. Like it's how everything's happy. It's in like a little town and people are laughing and shit and you're like, how could this turn into And then they have to go on this bloody errand that they they don't really know about. They're not sure what they're getting into, right? They're like, yeah, we'll go because why not? And and then they go and then all of a sudden it just turns into a shit fest.

And they're like, fuck. And then there's like the best of every other races with them protecting them and they're running around and they're like, this is bit shit. And everyone's happy though, because they've got each other. And then they go into a dark dungeon. The dungeon comes, there's a guy with wings. He's pissed. He's like angry, him and the main guy have a fight, he falls down a well, they run away. Specifics, yeah. Yeah, so. It's the main. Part It's more than 20 seconds and it's not much of A review as a.

Just something no. And then I get I hadn't and and then it's really sad at the end because the whole thing of the whole film, that's been the cornerstone of it's gone. So the fellowship is now broken and it's good. I'd go and see it. There you go. That's what the film review is going to be like. So let us know in the Discord if you want to hear more film reviews of other films. I absolutely do so. Yeah, we should do one if you're.

Not that inside then yeah. Shout out on the discord if you want to hear more of that. And when we get our patron up and running, I'll do exclusive film reviews in there for you. Yeah, and grout, grout Busters as well. We can get. Exclusive drop Busters, of course. Yeah, exclusive God Busters and some really deep cut film analysis. Oh, I see. Oh, I see like a 20 minute explanation like that. You don't want. I don't. The thing is, film reviews. Doesn't have to be really highbrow, it's just there's more to say about films, I'm sure. You don't want you don't want you. Oh, OK, I was going to say normally you just don't want to hear that much about someone's view on something. You want to make your own mind up. So if you get the feel.

Kind of feel like this is a podcast though. I get with you. Yeah. All right. So that everyone listen to me talk about anything I I hear, I hear how weird that sounds. It's a fucking kidney shot right there. So we've got the things I hate, right? I don't know what the Jingle is. Fucking that. Could be like fucking, you know. So last week's for anybody who didn't know the things I hate is basically the the segment where I dive into things I don't like. And last week it was strawberries. Small strawberries.

Now it's the it's the centre of the white centre of strawberries. Because it means it's a shit strawberry to be trapped. Fair. So yeah. And this week is is on the same vein, but a little bit different. I hate it. I hate it when you get a tub or something and it has a cellophane wrapper and you go to RIP the cellophane and the corner comes off and you're like and you have to find a knife. Yeah. That's the thing. It's even worse when you when you leave all the edge of the of the thing with the wrapper and then you have to and it keeps breaking, which which brings me as well. When you have a label in something that you bought and then you remove the label and it breaks and it breaks and it breaks and you just spend like an hour trying to remove that fucking label.

Yeah. So. So actually, you should open up things I hate. Each week we get to do one thing we hate. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We should have one each. I I genuinely or generally feel with packaging design I'm I'm fucking done compromising. I like it's this 2025 that cellophane wrapping, tearing or those little fucking stickers on everything that you can't pull off in one piece. I've I've had it. I'm done. Yeah, good. I'm glad.

Absolutely unacceptable. I. Think this is probably one of the best segments I've actually thought of because it's it's probably the sweetest deliverable for something that everyone hates. Maybe some people might like it. Everyone should hate this and you don't need to be OK with this is what I'm saying. Everyone has this issue and we've had the same problem with these stickers for like 40 years maybe Maybe 1000 years. As far as I know I'm. I'm pretty sure probably 1,000,000. Yeah, 1,000,000 years of dinosaurs on Apple. Same quality stickers. Struggling. I think what we do is we rotate the I hate it then so each week we can put in WhatsApp that you've got something that you genuinely hate, right?

And then like because I also hate famine. That's a That's a weird one. Yeah, I hate that. I fucking hate. That can't. Can't really get into much of A discussion on that can. We no, and the important the important thing is about I hate things I hate is it's not meant to give conversation really. It's it's meant to be a quick a quick deliverable. We can all sort of nod and be like I fucking hate that. Or a little story about how they had that time when they also hated that. But it's really not meant to engage. You are not meant to talk about it. OK.

It's like when your wife bends about something and she doesn't want any advice. She just wants you to say, yeah, that's it. Yeah, but normally that's like stuff that isn't really annoying, like, whereas this, this is meant to be stuff that is annoying, you know? Sometimes it can be really fucking annoying stuff. I think that's a really, really useful lesson in any relationship because sometimes the other person just wants you to go, yeah, fucking sucks. Yeah, that is terrible, Sharon from The Bloody Cleaners. Oh God I hate her. That's the wife. That's not me. She's complaining. Yeah.

God, she's. Complaining about cleaners. The from the cleaners. Yeah, yeah. A launderette. I don't know. I don't know. Sharon's not real. And I mean. No, it's just it was AII, it sounded for a minute there like your everyday issues are to do with with your staff basically. The funniest cleaners. That was your that would like lowly for problems. So GD, where are we at boys? It's been a week. I know where I'm at. I'll start then.

I still haven't decided which one to choose, but I'm, I'm, I'm excited by it. I actually, I thought about Eldred yesterday. I, I've got an idea, but I keep looking and I'm like, that's a tough thing to do. You know, I thought I could start it and get like 80% and then just not bring it to GD, but at least I've started it. It's better than not doing. Everything I'm hearing is is the worst idea ever so if it's a really difficult thing to do then maybe don't do it. It is like 6 weeks out. Yeah, it's my expectations on it, right. It's it's like it has to look perfect and I sorry I don't.

Mean you literally just talked about it. No, it has to it literally. Like there's a lot of pressure on it to get it right. And I don't want to get it wrong. I'm jacked, but really, really it does have to look perfect because it's not my paint. It's it's, it's, it's not like it's perfect. It's like it's a recreation of something. So it does have to look like the right. Otherwise, there's no. Point to share or do you want to do you want to share of of? No, no, I won't even tell you. OK, cool. I'll tell her now. Or now, by the sounds of it, yeah, fuck, you are now said that you were getting maybe a second or third or fifth entry going and you haven't even started your first.

Yeah. What's the arrogance of this? I was, I was browsing through Element games and because I, I was about to buy the star cast, which will I will use for the conversion. Yeah. And I said yeah, now that we're here, let's just see if I have to buy something else just in case, right. So to shave and save and shipping. And then I found this, this little helping me that maybe I have time for two, which which probably is delusional.

Probably I accept that, but but maybe not because I thought, what if I do something really, really simple and small, you know, no, no, no expectations, no nothing, Just a simple mini that I like, just doing it as best the best I can, just just fun, you know? And then I got to this model that I always loved and I painted many, many, many years ago when it came out actually, which was probably 1000 years ago together with the with the labels.

And it's the the Nurga Lord from Age of Sigmar that the fat guy with the. First one is like 2010 or 2011 something, yeah. Yeah, pretty, pretty good. One of the first single. Miniature, right? Yeah, it's a single miniature and it cost me £10 which which is a fucking bonkers how a character it's. Been it's been around that price since it came out. It is. It's the one of the best, like quality for money I guess. Yeah, I don't think you can get anything better than that. And I, I really love that model.

I think it's a very simple model, but you can do a lot with it. Like a lot. And everyone this this figure has been painted by. Yeah, it was. It was a sword, didn't it? A conversion, but a sword, I think. Maybe, I don't know. I think so, but with the one on the boat with tentacles coming out of it, no, that's that's another model. Really. OK, that was that trucks racist. Yeah, this is the OG. To be found this this model actually has three different iterations because there's another one with a shield and a hammer, which is mostly the same and then Guterres poom, which is slightly different. But then I went to to another hype train because I have this and this is after we talked about this. So you don't know I I was browsing through my box of sheet and I found this this old kill team the the Galerpox infected and the the big golem guys are amazing. I love them with all my heart.

They're fucking cool. So now I have a different different choice. Do I do the chaplain or do I do galerpox infected guy and. Both. I think, I guess. I think I'm probably going to do the chaplain and the age of Sigma guy if I have time. I don't know. Probably not. Probably yes. So essentially do you do the chaplain and the plague Lord which would be 140K single and one AOS signal, or do you do the Geller prox infected guy which would be 40K single but it would scratch the same itch because it's essentially an ergo guy. Yes, yeah, yeah.

And then it's quite a bigger plague. But that's not what it was. Yeah. Cool. Here's where I'm at, Yeah. Exciting, exciting stuff and whatever you decide to paint, you're going to start around October 15th, maybe a. Bit earlier October I come back from. It's actually not a joke because I come back from from Spain October 3rd at night, so at the very earliest I will start October 5th. That gives you 2 weeks and a bit weeks. Literally.

That's a long time, isn't it? Yeah, it's massive. Yeah, two weeks for a single minute. Well, yeah, with you if, if you're not doing a bunch of commissions, I guess I could also paint one miniature in that time. That would be, that would be fine, yeah. Same. Yeah. So that's why I'm planning a little. Yeah, yeah, you should do too. You should absolutely do too. How far away is the? Chapter. It is the 23rd of October. We leave on the 23rd. Is that next 20 February? 18 September, October. Oh, it's next month.

Correct. It's in about six weeks from today. How the hell are you going to do that project that you're doing now or now in in like 3 weeks? I have two weeks. Huh. Well, good luck, Good luck 7. Weeks. That's a lot more challenging than a single model. The sequence, yes, actually that's. Much challenging. It's the current project possible to start? That Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's yeah, it's. Possible that our tone takes me a bit longer so that I cannot start the 5th and I will I have to start later. I thought what's?

The. It's the week before the week before GD, yes. Oh, right, so if you actually finish it just before SMC, you're kind of fucked. You have one week even less, OK. Right, which is probably what will happen. Maybe. It seems like a very challenging. You could do the Nurga Lord in one week. Yeah. But then, like, is your heart really into it? Yeah.

It's interesting you told me about this project you're starting when we first went to SMC three years ago maybe. So it's been that long in the waiting. No, not that long it's been. Oh, no one I. Think. Right, yeah, the Archon. So it's not the other one that the secret one is the Archon. I didn't realize an Archon was a horse, by the way. Yeah, the ever chosen. But and that's just a single base, is it? It's not. It's not a backdrop and all that. It's a horse on on a base. So yeah, OK.

Oh, OK. It's not, it's not. You could do it in two weeks, 3 weeks. One of those cases that would have been in GD four years ago maybe. Yeah, before a cunt got in charge and then changed everything basically. Pretty much I. Mean I'm not, I'm not that delusional. So I I think I can do it. Maybe it it will eat some days from GD project, but you know it's doable. Yeah. It'd be exciting to see you the way. Wait, weren't we talking about Martin's duty? Or we had now she's. Talked about mine. Yeah. So my, my progress, I think I can, I can tell you how I'm doing.

Like I'll, I'll, I'll record a sound bite of how I'm doing and then you can just play that in every week for the next six weeks because it's going to be the same like I'm painting some space Wolves and I've, I've painted power armor and in the last seven days since we did this last, I've painted, what have I done? I've painted most of their bodies, legs, backpacks and I'm now on to some arms and I'm just doing just power armor. Just the same blue Gray power armor on. 1,000,000 you're really enjoying it. Does it sound like that? It's, it's actually fine.

It's actually fine. I'm, I'm very much doubting. It's a little bit. Yeah. I'm, I'm all I'm doing now essentially is I'm, I'm trying to walk a tightrope between like what I think is like straight up just every metal painting. Not in terms of like quality or anything, just the method, the technique, the style, all of that shit. And then trying to make it a little more interesting, a little more focusing on volumes and potentially, as we discussed last week, some sort of a light source. But mostly it's just a little more contrast, more volumes, make it slightly more yeah, interesting. And obviously, like I don't think heavy metals uninteresting.

It's just that I think anyone on that team would agree that there is like another kind of level where you can kind of try to push things for penny competitions. And I'm trying to find that level, make it as good as I can get it. But it's it's very much, it's very methodical now. I'm just like working through the same steps on every sub assembly. And then I'll probably go over everything again. And yeah. Yeah, when you were talking to I thought you're basically just trying to do what the characters did on the The Night Lord or the thing like Heavy Metal style with A twist of. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Enhancement, as it were. I'd say so. And I think ultimately I guess what that comes down to is I'm trying to paint as well as I can. That's probably the short version. I'm just trying to get as good as I can get it. But I know that my, it's almost like I'm sensing A slight like a plainness to everything I do not just like in terms of the, the highlights and like representing light and volumes and that stuff, but also like, you know, markings and freehand and just be a little more bold with how things can, how you can do things on like space walls.

So I'm I'm trying to remind myself to not be dull also. That's the good thing about the competitions, though, with all the shit we spoke about before, that external pressure does push you to to learn more, to to push yourself because it's a it's a tangible goal that you can actually push yourself for, if that makes sense. It's not just an internal clock, is it? Yeah, you're like. No, yeah. And there's a deadline which is really good. Yeah. I'm conscious all the time of and I, I, I, I'm genuinely not trying to think too much of like what is anyone else like judges or anyone going to think or anyone really, but like, what would I think was cool on a unit like this?

What would I appreciate someone else doing? What, what do I think would be cooler than just kind of the box art basically? It's pretty good. So we'll see. Yeah, it's a, it's a grind, man. I'm just painting every day, all day. Seeing do you do you feel? Do you feel like you have been done doing progress enough to not rush later? I think so, yeah. I do think I'm on certainly the first few days I felt like I was getting a ton of work done.

But I'm, I know that there's going to be a lot of tiny fixing and touch ups and stuff in the last few days. And what I would like is to have everything like painted and all, everything essentially done with like a week to spare just for touch ups. That would be really good to just go back and yeah, fix everything and change things and maybe pass around some photos and see what some, some other people think as well. That would be the best. Yeah. I. Always wonder if it's worth doing photos earlier in case of something drastic. Yeah, I tried to take some photos in the last few days just to to show some people and get an idea of again, this like the the volumes and the contrast and do I need to to go bolder with this?

But all I found was that the photos don't really represent what it looks like anyway. So maybe I'll try better photos. I don't know. But yeah, is it is again, that's actually something that I'm trying to improve is asking for feedback because I'm happy to do it when I can show people stuff in hand. But whenever it's photos, I, I find myself really like, maybe it's not excuses, it's actually, I'm actually saying like, no, it doesn't look like this. But I just find that it's not the most useful thing to send photos. And someone's like, well, that yeah, that looks a bit shit. They don't say that, but you know, it does. And I go, well, it doesn't actually look like that in hand, so.

Feedback is a whole nother deep. It is, Yeah. It really is. Because there's a there's a lot of things that feedback can can fuck you up or or help you. So asking the wrong people for feedback is bad for you. Obviously asking the the right people for feedback is the the right thing for you, for you as well. But it all depends on where you want to go and knowing, knowing that very little people can tell you better than yourself.

So because if you, if you ask me for feedback, I'll, I'll give you my opinion based on my preferences. Obviously, I'll try to tailor it to your style, but but it's inevitable, right, that I try to give you my, my own preferences. So the feedback is is a tricky thing. So don't give it or don't rely on it. Let's do that on another episode, then we should. Absolutely. We should absolutely do another, yeah, another maybe meet a bit just to talk about feedback because you're, you're right on now.

It's really, it's really quite difficult to to know what to do with it. Both giving and getting feedback can be a whole a whole thing. Yeah. So how's the Eldar project going, Jimmy? That, I mean that's an optional, we don't have to talk about that, but. I was just, we're always putting that on the optional and then like what is actually happening with it? I, I walked past my cabinet and it brings me joy. I also organized all my models so that I know like the ones that are painted.

It's great. It's great. It's, it's really good. It's it's the important point is that I know it's there for me and hopefully when I die, I'll have it finished. There you go. Also, we'd stopped doing this on now this was this. I enjoyed this segment. Hold on, you are mate. It's the white man, white van man. That's the segment where. What was it about this? I remember, I think this was a good I, I, I genuinely think this is a good segment. It's basically where you guys, you 2 privately come up with a few questions on current affairs or topics that are, you know, that that need an answer from the average man on the street. And that's me.

So you might ask me for example, like, you know, there's some reform of some bullshit or something that I don't understand. And then you'll ask me, do we need it? And then I'll go like, well, you know, they should just get over themselves and a good one in London, they're doing tube strikes, right? They're striking because they want 6 1/2 hours instead of 7 1/2 hours. And then I'd give you an answer on do I think the tube strikes are all right? So that's what white man fight white van man was. I see there's a way for you to get some interesting. You want to bring it back or it's just the passing?

Well, Lionel hated it. Lionel hated it so. But it's up to you. It's up to you. We could do that as a patron only. A patron only thing. I mean, I'm always a little concerned with with some of these things that it might just get into very serious politics. Well, again, it's the things I hate. You're not allowed to ask questions. You're not meant to start conversation, right? That that's the perfect. So even if you even if it triggers you, you've just got to be the bigger man and leave it basically.

Yeah, OK. So we are at next thing Grot Busters. Obviously the the the flavour of the week, the most exciting part of the show probably dare I say the best part of the show. What is the current score at the moment? I think Martin, you are one nil 2 are now, aren't you won last week. Well, we're 3 three to two, right? Yeah, three to two, yeah. But that's harder to remember. Let's take the aggregate of the win and add it to the score. So Martin's one nil. Mm, hmm.

But keep no, that's easier now. Definitely remembers the score from last week, which is saying something. Yeah, because yeah, I've been, I've been modifying myself. How did I lose? I couldn't sleep for three days. That makes sense, yes. And that's. What she was I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm completely confident on two of these. I don't. I don't even remember them. You piece of shit. Are you that's? Why? You'll never be a winner mate. Right?

So let's so the first one, OK? The first one is just reboot it and then give it to them OK. Yeah. I'll give this to her now. I mean, we both got the answer to this, but we wrote it down so we can't prove it. Yeah, I mean literally, said his. Name. So I changed it. Bobby G. Bobby G. So RG, his initials are. Yeah, Robert Gilliman. Robert Gilliman. What did you call him? Bobby G Is that his nickname? Rob. Yeah. Rob.

Oh, I didn't. OK so I've locked the door and it had a load of goo on it, had a load of like disgusting crap on it and B. And the initial was. BB So we had one contestant who has his written in and that is Jim from our discord and he got the first one so he's got that and B he said I've got no clue on this one. Tell me again. So I've locked the door and it had a load of like crap on it. It's disgusting. You should think about this during the week mate rather than now. Oh, oh, I should preface, not all of the things I do are characters.

They are things or. Stuff. From the 40K universe. Yeah. And I when we I assumed that just like last week, it's all 40K, it's not even the other ranges. Exactly. There you go. So it's something in the 40K universe, this one, I'll admit it's not a character because we obviously had Land Raider last week. That's not a character, is it? So. I don't know. So I don't know. I was trying to think. Of a lock on the door. Yeah, OK. And I had a load of crap on it. With BB. No idea. From balls.

Balls. Something it's balls. What I've done on now what balls are there in 40K? Should I should I, should I give you a hint? And you get half a point if you get it right. OK. OK, it's a weapon. It's AI mean I can only think of one, but I don't see the resemblance of the bolt gun say again.

A bolt gun. What did you say? Oh no, I said bolt gun, but it's bolt gun. It's not, it's a bolter. It's a bolt, and it's got loads of shit on it. You go because there's loads of goo on it and you're closing the bolt, right? It's a bolter. Well done. You actually, you actually both got it at the exact same time. That's kind of crazy. Yeah. So it's like you you're closing the door, right? So you bolt it closed and it's got goo on it and you go so it's bolter bolt. I like that. Yeah, OK, You should. I can't.

Oh, in fairness, you got it right. And then you've got the last one. So it shouldn't like it was proper scary or it should have been scary, but in the end, it was all like it didn't. It didn't matter. It was all for nothing. You. Didn't. Give R now, because remember, R now hasn't done these. But that's your own fault. I was. I was waiting for the letter. D You wouldn't have got it though, wouldn't you? I have no idea. Are you saying? That I remember.

I remember. I remember that last week when you when you said it, you said something close to Dreadnought. It was all for naughty, yeah? It was all for nothing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly, exactly. You said that and I thought, yeah, they're not. Wow, you should have written it down, mate. I think. I think you lose because you so so it's and and. Yeah. We essentially we got one point each and the middle, the the mid one we definitely didn't know. Yeah, but the Jim also didn't get the end and he got he got both as well.

So Jim, Jim is now 2 and we, we had Anna's brother had three. I think he was the only one to get it last week, was he? So this week. All three you did, Did he? Did Anna's brother get all three this week? He didn't message in because he's a piece of shit. So there you go. He's like, he's just like his brother, actually Arnaut, who doesn't play the game. In fairness, though, I enjoyed that he did e-mail in. So this week's, this week's. I think these are good. I think these are good. So I've, I've really have to struggle to not say what it is because he's written down with the clues. Oh, I put it in the.

I'll put it in the in the thing. Right. So the first one. OK, just leave it. Yeah, nobody bloody listens to it anyway. Just like just it's crap, don't worry. Like just, yeah, it's not happening, OK. And that is DP. DB. P DPP. PDP. Oh, OK. Good.

I said it then. OK, there's no one. The second one is you can't see him, and then another person says, look, he's right there. The dude's there, the old dude's there. OK. OK. And that is DDE. Say that again. DE. DE OK. OK, Oh, I just wrote the initial for this one. So I'll so this is S is the initial for for sugar and he sorry, he did what he he put a lizard in the oven. OK, he's cooked, he's cooking a lizard. And yeah, that's it.

That's that's this week's Grot Busters. It's a slightly slower week this week. I feel like we took maybe we're just buying into it because we're enjoying it. It's like the segment wasn't, we didn't cover the segment in about four seconds. So it's good we're it's. It's turning into a proper game show. Yeah, I think it's because because R now doesn't play until he he hears when he's on. He doesn't have them pre, but he's written on his phone now, so I can't take you know, it's it's right. So I'll put them in the group now. Writing. No more shooting from the hip from R now you're going to get. You'll get reeled down.

Yeah, next week, R Now it's going to come back with a vengeance. I have now, I'm just committed. They and I, I guess, I guess that sort of semi concludes the the beautiful show. We've had requests, we've got Q&A, but I don't have time. So keep those. I mean, were there any little ones? Could we do a little one like you've got to get back to the where is it Q&A. We've got a thing called Q&A. Here's one question from Bo or Boo Boo.

How do you say it? Mine. Fuck me, I'm a linguistic freak. How I got that right is bonkers. So we're only going to do 1. All right. Oh, I've got AQ and a question, actually. Shit. We're going to do 2. Did anybody? Yeah. And then and then ex vinegar El tenora. Brad Lux asked another question. Which is literally another meat of it. So yeah, we're not going to do that one. So how do you guys pick a colour scheme for a new figure you're painting? We've sort of covered this in the old shows. What's the process look like and what are some things to think about to try and incorporate? Yeah, maybe Arnout could take this one. Yeah, well, I always try to look for references of of things and, and try to find inspiration and, you know, graphic material that we can find in Pinterest or artworks that are already done or things like that.

It's the best way to just get inspired by things. Did you almost say that? We've done a whole episode on that topic. Yeah, I think so, yeah. Episode 2 maybe? Probably. I think it's it's in the title, right? Yeah, I think we need to improve our titles. I think it makes a difference. So and then we'll do the rest. We'll come back to them. It might be some of these questions. As you pointed out, some of them are really good suggestions for meat. Yeah, yeah, I don't agree. I did actually just bite my finger too hard. Then I was just testing how hard you can bite yourself, but now it hurts inside, not just on the skin. So it's a really.

Important test to the like. You. You bit your own bone. The fuck? So it's quite fast. No, I didn't. Yeah, right. I was just test. Yeah, I was just curious. Anyway, so the question I've I've literally wanted to ask you for four weeks, OK, is Martin, you don't use a wet palette. Do. You I do. Oh shit, you've changed. No, no, I've I've used one for 10 years. Holy shit now so my my wet palette that I've had for the last three years for is finally disintegrated to mold OK and are now told me that he doesn't use he uses something.

What is your wet palettes basically? My wet pilot is an oven tray that I I bought on Amazon. Some points that I bought from eBay. But what is this? An oven paper. This is This is the part I don't. This point is the, you know, the Gray blisters point, Yeah. So it's just packing foam basically. Yes, packing foam. It's that Gray medium range density foam. The same in in in Yeah, in, in miniature boxes. But where did you get it?

Because you told me this years ago and on eBay. You can buy sheets of it on in in my craft stores and on eBay and. I'll send you I'll send you the the eBay link. Well there's apps that are now using this. Holy shit. I've bought that kind of foam many times for sending miniatures, just packing them up so I know that it's. Terrible, I bought them for that as well and the baking paper fits the baking tray perfectly because they are made for each other so it's like it. Sounds like you're baking like it sounds like your wet pellet is huge.

Is it like a three? Mine's pretty big, how to say yeah, because of all my professional painting experience, Yeah. But what I've had to do is I constantly now buying like sponges and tea towels and cutting them perfectly to fit in this fucking paint and it's driving me nuts and I don't want it to go mouldy. Like if I had foam I could heat that up and and burn all the mould out, right? I can I. Put this in the in the washing machine every now and then and just coming out perfectly smelling. Black Roses? I don't think they tested washing machine. Dishwasher kills 99.9% of all bacteria. So that's dishwasher.

Yeah, fair enough. You yourself, Martin. Yeah, I use a red grass wet pellet. Does it look like not much to say about that. It's probably not big, you know. But there I see so not to go into really this. I really this sorry. Go ahead. What are you saying, Arna? I really dislike red glass paper. Like, like their paper? Yeah, I really dislike it. OK, I've actually thought about, just for simplicity's sake, just using baking baking paper, but it just doesn't seem to make.

A huge I got so annoyed. OK. Yeah, go ahead, Jamie. Sorry mate, yeah I got so annoyed I'm now ripping the paper and Alfonso from bacon like it's all messy and disgusting. Like the bacon trays that I I spent ages sourcing pre cut bacon tray sheets that fit perfectly to my bacon tray. That's fucking perfect, yeah. I, I do it every day, every day that I, I change it every day, probably sometimes twice a day and it's, I just take the thing out, cut it with, with, with scissors that I have literally and it's, it's literally 5 seconds or or less that I use every day it's.

So annoying. It's so annoying like. Why? Why do you hate the red grass? Paper, it's how it I, I don't know it kinds of it's too translucent in a sense, not not light ways, but moisture ways. Yeah. It, it treats the paint in a different way. And yeah, I, I, I cannot, I cannot paint with them. I really cannot. I know some people some some baking paper is much more hydrophobic so it actually the paint beads up on it.

Is that your the kind you use? I just I I use the one from Poland. So I've just literally this the only one I found that it's white. OK, but does it not it doesn't like the paint doesn't go like that when? You 2 minutes it it loses that so it just becomes a normal paper. It just, I don't know it it feels very different to the red rash paper. I guess you're gonna have to try. Yeah, don't swap now. I've used other pallets as well and I thought they were fine. I don't think it doesn't seem to make a huge difference.

I. Mean probably you're you are used to it. Obviously I'm not and now when I go back to it, I I just. So we can do an episode on this slightly because there's loads of different papers. We should all do this will be a great when we all live in the same country. We'll do like really professional YouTube videos, right, where we'll we'll do challenges and stuff like that and we'll have like perfect like gradient background and you know, and posters and shit and we'll probably get a female. Yeah, that's what we're doing. It's going to be good. I'm looking forward to it because basically what will happen is we'll earn like 100 grand a month each, right? Yeah.

So that's the plan. We'll have to live because because there's that much money in YouTube. It's just everyone knows that I've. Heard. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we have a, a whole building for for. It's because we, we need basically like, like Boo fans and listeners who are diligent and and loyal and ask loads of questions and are loaded just absolutely swimming. Yeah, and we'll do private the Patreon. There's a pledge which is like sit on a face or something. And yes, it's a metaphorical sitting where they give. Us Where is it?

Yeah, fair enough. I suppose for enough money, you can do anything, right? I would. Do you ever Have you ever heard of Veronica Mosia? What? Don't. Don't. I won't. We don't need to go into it. But if you haven't heard of it, it's fine. Don't worry about it. Mosa. Veronica Mose. Google it. OK. She she offered it a very exclusive service. I I, I first heard her about her like 16 years ago from my mate who who actually had a Prince Albert done while I knew him, which is the do you know it? Yep.

I mean, oh, now do you know the it's a penis? Nope, it's a penis ring. Basically it's a, it's a, it's a through the. So if that's your head, if like if you imagine you're holding up your finger for the listeners and then you get a big spike and you slam it through your penis through the side and then you then you have like a bull's nose ring through that hole and the top basically. I forgot he had that. I. Should message him and he said first time he went for a piss in the work office afterwards, obviously he said it sprayed blood from three different holes.

So it's quite funny. So he's the guy who told me I really like like I liked him a lot. I was sad he moved. He moved to Canada with his wife, his then wife, and he's the guy. Whole blood for sure. Yeah, he got me a Playboy ginger book because he knows how much I'll. Anyway, we do digress and that's the episode finished, is it? Wasn't there something? Sounds like it. Was something I felt like it was something very specific that I wanted to. I got sidetracked by the Prince Albert. You got sidetracked by yourself, yeah? That happens usually, yeah.

That's kind. We're not on the panda that I. Possibly been talking about nose. We were just talking about you. You asked us about our wet pallets and I was going to, yeah, whatever I was going to say as a very, very, very quick thing. We were talking 2 episodes or whatever ago about like all the gear, no ID, all that stuff, and like you can't buy skill and whatever. Having said that, it might actually be interesting to go through next episode or whatever what we do use because no, you don't need all the fancy stuff, but you should probably have like a decent paintbrush and not just a regular desk lamp. So that might be something we could just run down all the stuff we use if anyone's interested. Yeah, and that's easily and comfortable content for for for our patron.

Yeah, and also we're going to and we're going to get links for all the shit that we use, including such a good idea for now, oven tray. And then using our using our 200 then base because that's if, if you think about the increase in volume we've gone, we'd go from five people to 200, that's like 10,000%. Right. Exactly. It's amazing. And that that those stats in company terms. The the amount of people that will be inspired by your Clipper porn to buy new Clippers the fanciest Clippers in the world. I I think I could say. You could you could just do.

That market. You could do close up videos of you cutting slowly and soft. You know, now I think I'd do much more outrageous things if I was going to. I was thinking about this like for our GW cut her GD coverage. I'd really like to do like a very bland, awful video where there's like 0 emotion, but I'm and then I thought, how far could I take it? Like is it too obvious? I'll interview people and they also have to not have any excitement. So the whole point of the video, there is not a single smile or raised voice, right?

But it's, and it's like 3 minutes long. The award ceremony would happen, right? The award ceremony happens, but I'll ask everyone before I'll be like, look, guys, we'll pretend. We'll do a drive run. The guy with the sword will go up and he'll go like this, but he'll just do this and no one's allowed to clap. And we'll film some people's, like, close-ups of people just going like, oh, no, they're not to clap, just like. So, yeah, I had a whole, like, storyboard in my head of, of what I could do. And then the Clippers. No. And then the Clippers, like, I wouldn't cut anything. I'd probably take them out and do other stuff with them. And that would be my advertising campaign. Yeah.

I see, you know, the opposite of it's it's that sideways view that gets me no listeners and no no sales so. But I had fun doing it. So it's like painting in a way, isn't it? Yeah, except it's your job. Yeah, it's a. Good bookend for this, yeah? I love it. Thanks boys. Cheers, see you next week. We've got a discord if you're interested.