Too Much of a Good Thing: At what point do you stop appreciating art

Mini Matters, a miniature pending podcast. >> Welcome guys. It's been a while. I just noticed actually that that audio clip is um it only is that the the baby is on the right earphone and not both. Never noticed that before. Um well, okay. You guys obviously aren't as excited about that as I was. >> The what? The what is on the right earphone? >> The It's cuz you're not wearing headphones, right? When you wear headphones, you will notice that the baby going is on the right ear. >> Okay. You're saying the very first and that sound. >> It's not mono. It is mono. It's not. >> I've noticed that when I've listened to the podcast, which I've done in in on headphones.

>> I found that >> because obviously as as our listeners might not know, we obsessively listen to each episode several times. >> Probably every day actually before I go to bed, >> so I can mull over it. >> We are back. Um, I have to be totally honest with you. Uh, this I missed you. Uh, maybe not as individuals, but I missed the podcast. That's the less intense way of saying it, I think. Um, >> yeah, I missed you personally and and collectively both. >> Yeah, >> I did, too.

>> It's It was tough. It was tough. And and and now we are recording with our inside of Spain. >> Yeah, >> inside. Yeah, I'm literally inside the earth. That's why I sound like >> Arnell has been sequested to a country estate in the Spanish countryside like a like a mansion a manor either a country >> I don't know if that's like maybe tax reasons you're not allowed to mention that are now because obviously this is public domain >> and I was either that or or it's like a safe house >> because now that's true that is true and it is um like Texas like desert kind of vibe so Breaking Bad comes to mind basically cuz it's >> Yeah. And I mean, we should also mention like as far as we know it's Spain, but it could very well be literally anywhere on Earth.

>> That's so true. I mean, it's extremely true, actually. >> So, yeah. So if by far now sounds like he's in well I mean Guatemala, Slovenia, Sicily, that's where the reason why >> some people still think that that Spain is like uh we have cows and and and goats in the streets, but we don't. >> We are normal. >> I don't know if that's a slur on those crap other countries or uh that like everyone's perception. Spain to me is just like a super corrupt country that has nothing really going for it. Not as bad as Italy. Not as bad as Italy, but like you've got you've got like a good basis, but people just bring you like the government bring you down a bit. Do you know what I mean? Like also not as bad as France.

>> Yeah. I didn't really have that impression of >> my impression of Spain is that like 75% of the population works in the miniature industry one way or another. Either the miniatures or painting >> uh there's about 6 or 700 companies that produce paint that are all Spanish. >> Yeah. And they're all the best. >> It is a fascinating um Right. Let's get quickly into the what we're going to give the listeners some reason to stay tuned. But yeah, the um the Spanish quartet. Don't know what that means by the way. to the meat of it today is too much of a good thing. Semicolon.

At what point do you stop appreciating art? I don't know if that's grammatically correct. It doesn't matter to me. >> No, I think I think it is. I think that's great. >> I've been trying I've not been trying. Right, we've got >> I'm not sure about the semicolon, but I I do appreciate a good brand. >> Maybe it's may Right. Slow as a race car for those of you who do not know. Well, first of all, the meat of it is actually just the topic that we talk about. Slow as a race car is the opposite of fast as a race car. >> And fast as a race car is where we ask our contestants 10 questions. They have two minutes to answer them. And then the public, the all now six listeners. Um we have got a little bump in our listenership in since the last week. Uh vote on uh which one they would like the contestant to dive into more deeply. So uh we have two questions. One of them for our now you might not want to answer. So, I've given you two options.

Um, then we've got news, of course. We've got Q&A, a beefy Q&A, I must say. Actually, we've got four questions in there. Some are probably quick answers. Maybe some are diving in. We gotbusters. We had one person calling in. I don't think your brother did now. So, I'm very fucking disappointed by that. Um, >> that was difficult to think. >> So what? So what? If you're not going to win, you don't message in. That's a defeist attitude. I don't like that. don't like it. Right. Then we've gotten agree.

>> Yeah, it's cheap. We've got GD hype. Okay. Obviously, we're getting closer, boys. We're getting very very close to that. We've got a big big things I hate. It's a this this one is actually it it's I don't like it. Okay. But it's it's very specific. And then we've obviously got the things that we will cover one day. Rebel Moon, Elder Project, Dan Dan. I'm actually disappointed we've stopped Dan Dan. Um I've got anime stuff I really want to talk about, but >> not stopped. We're propo we're postponing it respectfully. >> Yeah. And then we've got the release cycle for GW basically. Um so we've got we've got those topics. They're good topics. Um now to go back to Spain quickly. My theory on this right is because they've got you've got nothing else to do in the day in Spain. It's too hot. Okay. You can't go out. You got pesos. Is that the old currency?

>> No. That was pettas. >> So close. >> Pettas was before the euro. When did you adopt the euro? I think it was in the 2001. >> I was going before that. >> 25 pesos um was not much money, but it had a hole in the still. >> Oh, sorry. Yes. >> Pesos is still the Mexican currency. >> Oh, really? Oh, so you're both speaking Spanish then, >> right? >> Oh, Mexicans. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, that's why it sounds very similar. Pathos. >> Well, yes, it's a >> There you go. Uh, and I've had my first ever crunch chocolate bar in Spain with the uh the the blue and the white and the red. I think it was >> Yeah. I mean, for people who don't know what it is, right?

>> Uh, it was it was electric. >> So, how have you boys been in the two week absence that we've had here? >> Well, it was only a week. Well, >> no, mate. It was a week a week since we did the podcast. I mean, ages. It's It feels like an eternity. I feel like I don't know you anymore. Like I didn't even know I wasn't sure if I should come back really. >> I was I was just thinking like even just having an episode and saying like how have you been is going to be 3 hours of of endless adventures cuz we've not seen each other like this for so long.

>> Well, I'll be honest. I I we've >> gone. >> Yeah, I was going to say like obviously Arn Now is now in trouble with the law and has to leave the country. Like clearly loads have happened. Well, with the marvel of internet, I don't care where he is. >> Even in prison, he can get this podcast done. I don't I don't think there's much better things online than this podcast. It depends what you're into. If you're into um endless dril and completely disorientated um shite, then this is a great podcast for you. >> It isn't. >> Well, if you're into more like streamlined professional kind of vibe, then you don't want to be here.

>> I don't think. But after so long they they they wouldn't they wouldn't just listen. >> I mean if you're into a stream live professional vibe what are you what are you doing looking for podcasts? >> You're a lawyer maybe or you're a dustman and you really like order. >> Mhm. >> I assume they do cuz >> or maybe they want the contrast. Maybe the CEOs listen. Obviously we've got no CEO listeners. Like that's a fact. Um, but that you you know how you get those people who are they're telling people what to do all day long and then in their sex life they have to go and get whipped by like um a prostitute or something, right?

>> I do know those people. Yeah. >> Yeah. You hear about that all the time. So that could be PE we we could be though, you know, that outlet for people. >> Yeah. I really hope we are. I >> highly doubt it, but you never know. If you want grling shit, that that's we not the right word, but what Well, case in point. if you want some. So, uh, I went to, uh, LGD. >> So, I I did >> Oh, yeah. You went to a tournament. >> Yeah, it was >> shit. There's been some hobby activity for you guys. I've been I've been locked in a room painting and you've played an entire tournament. 40k are now went to Freak Wars, >> which I think is a bit of >> And they wouldn't let him leave the country. That's incredible.

>> Yeah. Is it >> is Freak War lost in translation or is it is it is that its real name? It's It's true. Maybe. Yeah. >> It's not like in Spanish and and it doesn't mean >> No, no, no. Well, actually, it's it's in spa in Spanish we use the word freaky, which is u something close to freak. It comes from freak, but it's it has not the it doesn't have the negative connotation. >> Yeah. >> It's more like a nerd or geek. >> So, it was it was a lost translation.

>> Yeah. It's I don't think it's a great name because it in in in English it's not it hasn't that negative connotation. >> Freak. You're a freakazoid. You're a you're a you're you're a Billy. >> That's pretty interesting. So So it it so we're supposed to interpret it more like geek wars or nerd wars. >> Yes. Yes. Exactly. >> So I was actually on I was right basically. Not that you guys said I wasn't right. I'm not saying that I'm better than you. >> I'm just >> Yeah. Well, but but but what what I don't get is why instead of doing freak wars, they didn't do freaky wars with them. It would be more like our way of saying it because we don't we don't say freak. We say freaky >> freak.

>> It's a bit naughty though, is it? Freaky naughty freaky like you're freaky. I say like >> sex wars. >> Yeah. >> No, but it's not freaky with with E and and Y. It's freaky with two eyes. Well, it's not R I K I. >> That is That is freaky. >> Yes, >> Ricky. >> That's crazy. In fact, I wouldn't um I would never have guessed it would be such a weird Spanish spelling. >> I didn't even know it was spelled with an I actually. >> Guess that shows how little >> Yeah.

>> Um you know, invention. >> I guess spellings don't actually make a difference. >> So, Arno, do you want to talk a little bit about the event itself? no matter how it's spelled. >> Yeah, it was great. Actually, I think it's growing a lot. Uh there's there's international companies. There's there was um Byron was there with Element Games. Well, with Artis Opus, uh Neco Galaxy and Mind Work and stuff like that. So, it's starting to to feel like a real event, not like a re regional one. And that's pretty pretty cool actually because we we didn't have a good show in Spain for a long time which is surprising.

>> It's crazy actually >> considering how much painters we have and how much professionals we have >> because it's so expensive or like tax or there's no >> No, I think because there was no um no one to push for it, right? We had one before, but it was more like a historical one and it it shut down. >> So now that we have free wars, then it's more like a fantasy one gaming and bit of everything. So it's a little bit of everything. Is that it? There's there's and there's but you can also game there and there's a lot of vendors >> and there's cosplay contest >> there's artistally so it's more it's like a comic con miniature show so that's a bit of >> does sound really good >> I didn't actually realize that I assumed it was like 20 Spanish guys in a room sort of just circle jerking now I actually had I knew there was retail right I didn't realize there was painting competition. So, I thought it

was >> someone mentioned Oh, sorry. No, go. >> Someone mentioned that because the World Model Expo we went to I went to the World Model Expo in Paris this year and there were a lot of bad things about it, but never mind. And someone mentioned that because World Model Expo is sort of arranged by uh it it's like handled by different people depending on where they go in the world. The the next one which is supposed to be in Madrid is also supposed to be uh organized by the free course people. >> Oh, interesting.

>> The same way that the the previous one in 2022 was like the SMC people in in >> Yes. Exactly. >> Lindovven. Yeah. Uh and so for that reason, I mean, not that it's a massive thing, but it uh I got the impression that Frequ was really well organized and really good, and that makes me more excited for the expo as well. >> It is. It is. There's a lot of there's a lot of um uh people who you know work there. Um how who's it called? People with no pay. >> Volunteers.

>> I can find report volunteers of course >> and yeah it's it's pretty good actually. I think they are improving a lot every year because they take a lot of feedback and they they really improve upon it every year. So it's it's great. Yeah. >> How long has it been going? Not that this is a competition podcast, but >> maybe seven years or >> quite a while. Fucking hell, eight years. >> Yeah, that is like how long has Monty been going? >> Not that it's the same. It's a long time. Like Yeah. Okay. So, not much longer actually.

>> Yeah. >> Probably that. No, I think it's more >> 22. I have no idea. Someone will tell us in the comments. We don't know. >> I think it's less than 15 years. But yeah, someone will just correct. We can just look this up, but we won't. >> No, I mean Albert will probably be on WhatsApp the instant he listens and he's he'll have a big go at he's talking shit. Um, so I mean it's a staple now. You go every year basically, but you go there to retail as well, right? >> Yeah. Even if it's not the the best place to sell because it's not only about figures. So there's there's gamers, there's people who don't know, you know, at SMC, you know that every single person that goes there is there because of figures, but in in frequ gamers, there's people who just like nerd stuff. And so it's not that much about selling, which also helps, but it's more about being there and making the the event larger, you know, and present.

>> I just think it's it's good for that. >> I wish it would like I was just thinking, could I go? Like I was I was thinking ah could I go cuz Spain has some all right food sometimes. Um, so it would like be good to go, but then I was like, it's fucking it's such badly. Why do all the organizers decide to do the competitions within two months of each other? Like, >> yeah, that that's what I don't get and I will never get and I hate it so much. >> It's so annoying. Like, do some in fucking March or April and it's not hot yet, >> you know?

>> Yeah. There's a lot of weird uh choosing. Well, it's not weird, but it's frustrating that like >> Golden Demon now at Spiel and then SMC and Monty and this is all kind of pretty bundled together. Um, >> it means I don't look forward to it. >> That's one of the things I liked about Golden Demon being in May. >> Yeah, it was brilliant. >> I think it's perfect deal. >> It was I literally I'm quite conservative about Golden Demon being like the way it was for a while, I guess, with games days in end of Septemberish. like this time of year basically and in like Birmingham that's the way it should be forever.

>> The thing is I mean maybe I'm just >> Yeah, if it was in the UK it wouldn't be as bad but I don't live there so actually it's the same. Yeah, it's like h if if if you had it spaced out I think I'd really look forward to it. But right now I'm I'm I know I've got these two events and I'm slightly like uh I'll be whereas if there was a you know a decent gap I could really do that one savor that and then really look forward to the next one. >> Um >> yeah. So yeah, I don't know. It's a one more I guess like if Freak Wars was in a different time of year, I'd go to it and they'd probably have a load of people more go to it.

>> Um, >> next year they are doing it earlier. So I think next year it's in the at the start of September instead of at the end. >> Yeah, that's that is better. I appreciate that. How did they know? They haven't even listened to the podcast yet. It's crazy. >> Yeah, they do it because of >> it's the only explanation. Um, and then I was in LGTT, which is a tournament in London, which is literally like a 9-minute bus away from my mom's house. Uh, which is pretty crazy that it's so close.

>> And it's like the biggest in the world or something. >> I thought it was biggest in Europe, but it might actually be the biggest in the world. >> I don't It was biggest somewhere. It's massive. >> It says it's the biggest, right? >> It's a lot. And it doesn't feel like a thousand. I think that's the issue. It feels like 20 are there. It's it's a wellorganized it's a very wellorganized tournament. Um and it's it wasn't hot which is crazy like I suppose it's such a time of year maybe. I can't see how many people are in Nova though. Um I know the NOVA is like the it's the biggest one maybe in the the US. But anyway, it was amazing. I went with um with one guy I know um who I went with last year, Aston Aston Martin.

Interesting. Never thought about that. And uh and then three new lads who were also really good. And we went to Bengal Berties. I don't think I've taken you to Bengal Berties, have I? Have we been now? >> I don't think so. >> It's fucking >> Sounds like an Indian restaurant. >> It's an amazing Indian restaurant m I will add. Um and it was no like so all the tournaments I've gone to before like every single one except for once last year but except LGT last year but I didn't know them so I met them there. But every single tournament I go to I go by myself. Um, which is fine because it's kind of nice to have a chill. You go and eat, you go blah blah blah. But it was much better going with people who I liked. Uh, looking back retrospectively, like the uh I guess you're you you know, if you chop your leg off, you deal with it. Whereas before you chop your leg off, you're like, I couldn't live with a chopped leg off, you know? You adapt, right? So >> going to these tournaments, >> not quite seeing the connection with people you went to. going going to the tournaments. I'm like I like going by myself. It's fine. I get to watch TV. I get to read books. I get to eat whatever

I want. And no one goes to shitty like Five Guys, which is just awful. Um, and now I've gone with people. I'm like, "Oh yeah, okay. It is actually probably better to go with people, >> but I'll go again to another tournament by myself, chop my leg off, and have to just deal with it." I'm basically saying, you adapt, don't you? Like I you never would assume that losing your leg would you think your life would be over? >> So going with people is like chopping your leg >> by going by yourself >> by yourself is exactly like going without tournament without your leg.

Yeah. >> No, no, no. Not the tournament. Just your whole life. Okay. It it look at it like this. Um Oh, I shower every day. I I could never live I couldn't live without a shower. And then your shower's broken. You're gonna get on with it, aren't you? And you'll just you you'll you'll enjoy yourself. If you enjoy the day, that's what the tournament's like. Good. >> Yeah. It's a slightly unnecessary metaphor for just uh being being adaptable, being okay in a less than ideal situation. >> It's it's I mean it there was a guy at LGT with missing an arm basically and I thought that's so good he's got one arm because otherwise he's fucked. Like he could not play Warhammer at all with with no arms.

>> Yeah. The the argument it could be worse is is like true for absolutely every person on earth. >> Yeah. Unless >> including >> they're dead >> a onearmed warmer player I guess. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Wisdom in this podcast. >> He's very happy I assume. I mean he might be annoyed. I was watching a video the other day about um on YouTube about a guy with frostbite, right? And he just had frostbite on his fingers >> and he was talking about it so positively because he could have lost more but he lost he lost like seven fingers. But he was like, "Thank God I've got three." Um, >> Jesus.

>> Yeah, it was it was an amazing positive display of um resilience, man. Right. So, yes, the basically the tournament was fantastic. I really really enjoyed it. Um, it did get me thinking like if only there was something as I said to you guys on the what's like if only there was some way like we could all be competitive in a in a single event and and you know talk about it. But obviously I was joking but it I still am a bit sad that um like 40k like going to Golden Demon it's it's kind of passive right so we spend all this time alone and we paint right say 300 hours 400 hours in on our case probably like 700 800 hours um and >> in our now case like 20 25 hours >> yeah it's cheating um but you spend all this time alone, right? So, it's quite reclusive in that regard. Obviously, we catch up, we talk, we share photos and stuff, but >> and then we go to the event and you just give it in, right? And then you stand there and you socialize for two days,

which is really cool. >> And you very true. >> If you some people go around and look at the cabinets for literally for two days. >> Um, >> yeah, >> but the Warhammer tournament somehow >> you do a three-hour game and then you catch up for an hour and you talk about the game, you experience it, you you you talk about your lessons, etc., and then you go and play another game. It's a really like there's more camaraderie I felt in that tournament than I've ever felt a golden demon somehow. >> I can definitely see that. I >> Yeah, >> it is. Is it very um demanding? Like it must be exhausting to play so many games at the end. Don't you start going downhill energy wise? you just if anything you you get more energy and you're more galvanized and more excited to to play the next game. Like day two it was only two games. I was devastated we weren't allowed to play three. Don't get me wrong, the first few tournaments I did I was like I had chapped lips and I was like why the fuck are my lips

chapping and my feet hurt and I'm tired and I'm making mistakes and blah blah blah. I think now it might just be that I've played now a year of competitive and I've done a tournament for a year and I'm more used to it, but um I I think I found it amazing because you do something that you love most in life except for my family. Um and and Tina doesn't listen so I don't need to lie, but no, you do something that you you you love more than anything, right? And it and it really like the anticipation for a tournament is so high. I'm so so excited to do it. Like there's there's nothing I look forward to more than a than a 40 40k tournament, right? And then you get there and it's it's better than you thought it was. And you're like, "This is fucking amazing." And then you you have a quick break, you talk, you think how amazing they are, how amazing it is, and then you play another game. So, you've got three times of like brilliantness and then at the end, you know, you're going to spend

like an hour or two with the guys and you're going to go and get food and talk and and not just about the game, just life. Uh, basically are now I would love you to get into competitive Warhammer and I think you're a pussy for not doing it. So, there you go. That's there. I said it. Um, >> I I went to a couples tournament once. Uh, that sounded like it's for couples. I guess it that's what you call it, but it was >> it was >> Yeah. Okay. Teams then, but it was Yeah. Fine. Fuck it. Uh, it was like couples tennis. That's what they call it, right?

Doubles tennis. Double tournament. That's what it was called. Doubles. Yeah. >> Uh, >> I like couple though. It's good that you went with your misses. >> Well, now I'm thinking there should be couples. >> Yeah, that would actually be really cool. >> Doublesh World when I was working there and it was amazing. It's just what I was going to say. It was it was so much fun. And cuz I was thinking about Arnell said that like wouldn't the energy drop or something. I feel like sometimes when I'm playing it happens rarely, but now if I play like a game of Kill Team or something, me and the other person I'm at their house or whatever, we'll just sort of te like the the energy will just teeter out and we'll get a little bit fed up by, you know, 30 minutes into the game and just like hang out, >> right? Yeah. Like a social thing, right?

>> Yeah. And I feel like with this doubles thing, it was maybe because I was playing with someone else, but we we played uh just like you did. We played three I think three games in like an afternoon. It was amazing. >> It was so much fun the whole way through. It was great. >> So I guess maybe the tournament setting adds a bit of >> gives you that kind of energy as well. So I >> I will do a double star tournament that that I would do without >> the the only one I know of is Warhammer World and I signed up I actually recently unsubscribed like a week ago cuz event bright, right? So I was getting notifications about tournaments at Warhammer World and I didn't get a single fucking one in like two years of any an event that I wanted to go to. It was like I'd keep seeing Warhammer Sigma blah blah blah. didn't ever see one for 40k doubles. And I assume now looking back that it's because as soon as it was released, people would sign up, so they didn't bother sending emails out because it was full before >> their like scheduleulable bull crap goes. I don't know if it's true. I I wanted to just be alerted beforehand

that their tournament is going to go live. But then anyway, um I think the one good thing about tournaments um is you play your first game, you lose 200, you're going to play against someone else who's 200, right? Then let's say you lose your next game 200, you're going to play against someone who's lost 220. So basically, you find your natural rhythm and you start having competitive games. It's not like um you just get battered every game unless you're >> fucking dog shit. Like if you're the bottom of the barrel then okay you're gonna get bent over like fine but generally speaking uh it's pretty good at that. Like last year the same tournament I lost four and one one um so you can get beaten four times in a row basically. Um >> you might still have a good game.

>> They were competitive. Yeah. Yeah. You can lose and still still have fun, right? Um, but yeah, I'm I'm I'm more motivated now to to go to tournaments and try to have some friends that go. I'd never thought about it before, right? Like all the people in Austria, they're not my friends. As sad as it is to say, like they're they're people that play 40k and I talk to them and I like some of them, but they're not your friends. You know what I mean? Like I wouldn't be like >> colleagues. Yeah. Basically, they're four 40k colleagues. Um, and I think that's because Austrian people are weird. Um, so that is the intro of this episode and we can we can rattle into So, so this is the uh this is I don't even need to say it. This is the I'm vegetarian. The meat of it jingle. Of course, one more time for anybody who doesn't know the meat of it jingle. I'm vegetarian. There you go. So, by popular demand, I have to keep that as the jingle.

the >> by popular demand, we're not going to talk about the jingles anymore. So, let's just move on to it. >> The look, I'm sorry, mine. They said that that was their favorite jingle. >> Who said that? >> I don't remember. >> One name. >> Two people in the Discord were very adamant that that's easily >> So, like, so 70% of our listeners said that they like >> Yeah. Like based on percentages, that's an amazing return. Um, I really uh I really appreciate that they like that jingle. Um, I've actually done nothing for two weeks on the podcast. Ive I've been extremely lazy.

>> Why would you? We haven't recorded and uh >> No, but I normally >> we have so much to talk about. We're already >> too much >> two and a half hours in and we've uh we've discussed tournaments and precourse. And for those people that feel like it's not been two and an hour, that's how good the content is because you you are having so much fun. Um, so do you want to you you got a choice. Meet a bit slow as a race car. News Q&A. I haven't done Ghostbusters yet, so you can't pick that one. Um, or Gate or GD. >> Let's move on to Meat of It, I think.

>> Yeah, you did the intro, so we're doing Meat of It. >> It just feels too serious, right? I was actually about to start with it, so I take anyway. Um, so I don't I can't remember what like motivated or inspired me for this topic, but it is one that I'm I'm kind of vaguely interested in. I think it was artwork. That was it. So, there was a collector who collects Warhammer pieces. Okay. there was he exists still and he often gets models shipped to him like endless supply of models like top top quality 75 mil 28 mil every everything to do with modeling in fact that's probably a better way to sum it up um and I I it reminded me I was like shit isn't that guy just like he's just bored so when I was collecting my sealed collection it got to the point after about two years where I'd pretty much collected every uh box that I had aspired to as a kid, recreate my youth, blah blah blah. And I was just doing it then for the sake of it. So I was collecting because I knew how to I just it was it had gone past

the point of um joy and it was just that's what I do now. Um and then I also collect artwork, elder artwork, and the first piece of artwork I ever got was the second edition Elder cover, right? And I still hold that in high regard in in how I like how it makes me feel. I'm buying Elder artwork now. I do like the artwork, but it doesn't have the same impact anywhere near as the same impact as that first purchase I got. Right. So, yeah, when I heard, and I hadn't cognitively clocked all of that, but when I heard this collector was getting another piece that loads of people would like really, really appreciate, I was like, is he jaded like I was? Because then I realized I'm buying artwork because I like the artwork, but more to have it than to like have it on my wall.

and rever it. And so yeah, it got to me to thinking in artwork in general, like at what point do you stop appreciating it? Um, and is it worth it? And blah blah blah as a collector. I mean, I think I guess >> I think Yeah. So, so the first thing here is basically like this is inflation. It just it works with everything and the more you have something, the less worth it it it the the the less worth it has. That's I think that's just the case with anything. If if all you do is eat at >> three Michelin star restaurants, then that becomes less special.

>> Um the less you enjoy amazing things, the less worth they they have. And I think with regards to like collecting as well, it's uh it's never going to be the same as that first thing that you got. Um but that doesn't necessarily mean that you have to stop doing it either. Um, but it is, yeah, it's it's a it's a difficult thing to have like the the I guess you have like the resources to just keep collecting and keep buying stuff and then what is the like what is the point unless there is that kind of um completist mentality of wanting like everything of something because that's another issue then like I've done that with some of the limited edition uh horse heresy books. They released the Siege of Terror books and I wanted to buy all of them and I remember getting the first one and thinking like this is gonna fuck me up with having to buy all of them because they say it's going to be eight and I'm pretty sure it's going

to be more than eight. And then yeah, wouldn't you know it, it ended up being like 11 books in that series. And I I really did feel buying all of them is like I'm not I don't know where the enjoyment is in every one of these. I'm just I just have to have the full set. So um yeah I don't know >> I understand >> I understand collecting because at the end of the day collecting is um limited in a way. So for example you say collecting the the codeex artworks. Okay there's there's let's say 11 or 10 or eight uh codeex artworks.

That would be a good collection to have. Obviously, if you have endless things, like endless uh sealed boxes, then yeah, why why keep going? A limited collection can be cool because you you want to get to get them all, right? And and that completion is what what gives you the key. But then I think the problem goes way way further than that which not only in collections but in in how present it is in your life art. So, and and I think we talked about this the the other podcast where we are so used to seeing artwork in miniature form in our case obviously that we start to lose the kick that seeing something uh cool gives us for I don't have it at all. Um, for me maybe once a year or twice a year I see something that I say, "Oh, wow. That's really cool." But before it was easily once a week or or you know, and now it's

like, "Oh, fuck, another figure. This is boring as shit." You know what I mean? >> Is that so? >> Yeah. >> Like, >> yeah, >> just social media. I I I don't want to blame social media for all the world's problems, but um like >> we we could >> Yeah. Like does it I don't know if it's true, but back when I was reading White Dwarves and stuff, you'd get a once a month overload of awesome, right? Or you would roughly awesome. >> Um and that was it. And then you would spend that month trying to recreate those things, right? Um and then like for example now when I play a game of 40k uh I don't have that same level of excitement as you as we did when you and I played Arn. But on the flip side um when you and I play I get back into that quite quickly. I think it took me two games to stop my normal routine. Right. So, I don't fully understand where this is going other than I wonder how you recreate or get away from the mundane and routine of it because I was able to do it with 40k

because I stopped doing it how I've always done it and went back to the way we're doing it like when we were playing. >> I mean, >> you have a cool down, right? So, so if you if you let it cool, then you'll get some some some kick later as well. But if you keep constantly feeding your your your input of of that thing, then it starts losing its value. Of course, I think it's just about resting. And if I don't see any miniature in two years, probably when I see one after two years, it would be like, oh, >> you think it's that bad? You don't think that if you didn't see miniatures for three weeks, you would be recharged? You You think >> three weeks?

Fucking hell. You think you're that badly burnt from it now that you're like >> So, doesn't that I like Isn't that a bit sad? Like, not like you're sad like doesn't it isn't it like you've lost? >> It also it also promotes um uh advancements and and progress, right? Because you are uncomfortable with it. So, you want to improve and and do new things and uncomfortable with it. What do you mean?

>> You are uncomfortable with not feeling it, with not liking it. >> So, you try and push yourself or create new boundaries or >> every every time I do something, I feel like it's boring and and meaningless because it's the same shit all over. So, why why do we why do we change? Why do we progress? It's because we are tired or bored of the of the old stuff. Yeah, I think it's it's interesting with with because we're talking about two different things here as well doing it and and the like the exercise itself, which we've talked about before, is like keeping keeping yourself interested while you're doing it. But then the other side is just enjoying other people's models and the art itself. Uh not just miniature art either. I think anything really. Like I I'm fed with cool stuff constantly.

Um, >> how from >> I'll look at like just random fantasy art on like Pinterest and people's miniatures on Instagram, but also, you know, movies, TV shows, like there's so much stuff that will inspire you that >> Yeah, I think a lot of that will will again lead to some kind of inflation. There's way too much cool stuff everywhere all the time. >> But I do I do find still that I I I enjoy at least partly enjoy almost all of it, especially miniatures. I still feel that kind of spark a little bit.

There's very little, like you say, Arn, very little that really makes me go, "Wow, this is fucking cool." But there's a lot of stuff that's like, you know, 80% to that level where I think this is kind of nice. Um, >> it's impressive. >> I don't feel like that sort of like bland like slight disappointment. I don't really feel that a lot >> cuz you even you like working in GW would think that it could have easily gone that way. You know, normally when you work in in the thing, you you you hate it. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I feel it it did it did get to that point a little bit with some where maybe, you know, every I don't know 10th release would be something where I'm like, "Wow, this is great. I really want to paint this." >> But still, you know, the rest of it wasn't uninteresting. It was just Yeah.

This was just kind of the regular like bread and butter miniatures. >> It is. It is actually really interesting. Right? Because what made me think of the topic was more your your not you like one is is like is consuming this stuff, purchasing it, getting it, gifts, whatever you want to call it, but it's all the same stuff. And that becomes boring. >> But when I think about releases and 40k, there's a few things I'm fucking bored of seeing, which we'll go into later, but Space Marines, but that's because there's so much of it. So that that actually does cross that bridge. But the >> otherwise I think I'm I I'm generally quite excited by like 50% of the GW releases for example in 40k. I'm like holy shit that's still cool. But that's because it's more finite and I don't get it myself. I have to go out and buy it.

>> Um it's not like I'm given this thing. I mean, don't get me wrong, these artworks I'm talking about and the the sealed stuff, I was buying it, but it was like there's somehow a difference there. I can't quite grasp the the meaning of it, but like you've got you've got buying your own crap, you've got working on your own stuff, but it's different. Arnell's perspective is different from mine because he's working >> same. I think it's just perception because at the end is is getting used to something and getting used to buying it, getting used to seeing it, getting used to it's it's too much of something just lowers your dopamine intake, right?

>> It it doesn't matter what what do you do with this thing. It's just if it gives you uh dopamine at the start and you keep doing it, you will get less and less and less. But that's just a normal thing. >> I I Yeah, exactly. It is completely normal. I do agree. But I would still maintain I can still sense whether or not I I like something at all. And if I do, then I'll still like that thing. So like Space Marines is a good example because the the the like I guess disappointment I might say I guess you could say with some releases, some space marine stuff that comes out isn't that I don't think it's cool. it it might be that I think this could have been more interesting or more exciting, but there's also the aspect that I like Space Marines. I think they're cool and I've always thought they were cool. So, that's not really going to change. You know, even like a really basic thing that comes out. I might think like, oh yeah, this could have been more interesting. But I I don't know. It's hard to explain, but

there's still that kind of aspect of like I still I still think space marines are cool. So, >> no, I know a lot of people go like, "Oh shit, there's more of this. I didn't want more of this. And then I'm like, okay, did that mean that you don't like space marines at all? Or did you want something really, really, really different? Because if that's the case, maybe it's that you didn't want Space Marines. >> But it is mundane, isn't it? The same lieutenant in a slightly different pose with a slightly different hat or shield or >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But if they did new things in space main like like progress like we we would actually kill for a new Land Raider, right? Or or a new whatever that it's that we we like. So I I actually it's not like I hate it. It's just that it doesn't give me the same level of excitement anymore. So and when when you do not get the same level of excitement, you you feel kind of sad, right? because you want to feel it. And yeah, it's not about disliking because I I can eat

space marines every day, every single day of my life until I die. And I'm pretty sure I will enjoy it. But [Music] also, I'm pretty sure it will not never be the same as 10 years ago when I was discovering Blood Angels and I was the happiest man alive. So, and this with painting is the same every year that I do it more is it's not about doing because I love I absolutely adore painting. It's my life passion and I it will never change but I see so many figures for example and my my thoughts are a bit all over the place but yesterday uh some family came into to my to my parents place and we had dinner and stuff and I had some figures with me from free course and I showed them to to the all the figures that I have and it's was the first time they saw real life in hand uh like professional painted figures and

they were absolutely mind-b blown. They they were like I could see in their eyes how they they were not believing what they were seeing. >> This thing fades. It's inevitable. But that means that the more you do the more it fades. And now we are so used to seeing it that we are also we we are even taking it as normal. Figures incredible figures are our standard. That's what I mean that >> I I'm so up there in in I'm so used to seeing the maximum level that I don't know what I need to get impressed if you know what I mean. Would you would you say generally that you're you're more um you're probably going to be more impressed by people that do things that are maybe beyond or slightly beyond your own capacity to do so basically better.

>> I I don't think it has nothing to do with my own level. I think it has to do with how different it is or new. So, for example, when I see someone painting something absolutely out of the standard, for example, I really like Craftful Studio because they they paint different than me. Very different. And and it's not better or worse. It's just a new thing. Or when Yeah. It's when someone does something that nobody else has done before, something very artistic or it's like, "Oh, wow." It doesn't need to be extremely well painted. It's just different than new.

>> I do agree with that. I I I find a lot of the stuff that really catches my eye stuff that is different for whatever reason or in any any way. It doesn't have to be particularly really good. >> Uh not that there's an objective good, but yeah, like technically really really good. It's usually stuff that's quite different. But I think aside from that, there's also a lot of the stuff that blows my mind is also things that I I really couldn't do myself because it's technically really advanced or someone's done a really um you know impressive technique or >> but those things will be less common anyway. So they will draw your attention more like >> like if you saw a gay couple holding hands down the street, you would notice them way more than a straight couple because there's 10 there's 10 straits for one gay kind of, right? So, it's not that um like it's it's just anything different is going to catch your attention. I think when you go to a painting competition, like the things that are now is impressed about that I've seen in painting competitions are just normally scenes because they're easier to make something different.

>> Um some sort of diarama or jewel or >> uh I don't know what the word would be like a display base or whatever, right? >> Because you've got much more room to be creative. And often it's quite funny to see where there's like a frustration in his brain and face when he's like, "Fuck, I I I wish I could do something like that or I wish I had time to do something like that." >> Like, and I wish I didn't have my job or I wish I didn't have uh I wish I just had unlimited time. I don't know. Anyway, >> but it's a I know exactly what you mean. I'm exactly the same. Um, and and but that that boils down to all all the way back to the whole thing of like they're not these guys are get I feel basically I feel a bit of sadness when I see the collectors collecting these things. Um because I know the feeling that I had when I was collecting these things and the sort of in brackets hollowess that it kind of um that it just is if that makes sense. And every now and then is

that a hand up or is that a sore shoulder? Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, every now and then you'll get a piece. I'll just quickly where you are like, "Oh, shit. That brings me much closer to where I was at the start." Hand up mine. >> Did you pause it? >> Oh, I see. So, yeah. I I Well, it's interesting. Also, what got me thinking is I I've bought um Magic the Gathering uh Spider-Man collection, right? Some some cards. >> Nice. And there are some amazing artworks in there, right? And it it also reminded me or made me think like why why would I feel more I'm holding the card up. You can't all see it. There's a basically the cards that um there you go. That's my mother calling me by the way on the phone. She just she just wants to know how I am and said just tell me she loves me. It's lovely.

Right. Um anyway, um I hope I hope it's not some emergency. And she's like, "If you had have called, you could have saved my dog's life." She doesn't have a dog. Anyway, um Craft World Studio do a lot of the artwork styles in these uh space fucking Spider-Man artworks that I What is it? The primary colors wheel is shifted, I think, or something. or the >> it's it's more it's more anarchctic in a sense like it doesn't follow that much of a of it's not as real, right? It's more cartoon and then the colors are shifted. Uh you have a a purple base and then you have a an orange skin but then lights are green. So there it's more it's more abstract. It's slightly more abstract. But isn't there a rule set?

Because like um bucket, we'll go into that another day. So the artworks that I'm really drawn to in this Spider-Man collection are using lots of purples and uh blues and blah blah blas, right? Like shadows that are that color and and that card there that you see with the lady. But what what was interesting to me was having this bit of artwork, if I could buy this, it's digital, so I can't buy it, >> would somehow be more important to me than getting another Elder One >> because you've already got several Elder ones. >> Even though these Elder Ones I loved like fully as a kid. Um, and it made me slightly sad as a realization, >> but also excited that the concept that I want this more than I want Elder, but it blew my mind.

>> Um, But what if what if they released a new Elder cover that you loved? >> Yeah, I would like that. >> Yeah, I would. >> So, it's just about the new thing, right? >> Yeah, but that's crazy. Basically, like I said, I' i've evolved in a in a in a in a way. Not like not necessarily bad, but I've my core values three years ago were so far from where they are now, basically. >> I don't I don't know. I don't know. I don't think it's that. I just think it's what I was saying. It's it's all about evolution. So I I know so I've collected a few things in my life and I won't get too much into why and when what it was and everything. Well, okay. So when I was younger, I collected Star Wars toys and I was uh really into firstly like the original original ones and that was really difficult like to to do in the '9s. Um, yeah.

>> So then it was more about like >> Yeah, exactly. It was like like harder to track down. And then I did that and then I pretty much stopped when I I I bought a bunch of stuff from like the the prequels and I just was like, "Okay, fuck it. I've got enough now." And I just stopped like pretty much cold turkey quit. Was done with it. And I've still got most of that stuff u in box. >> Some money. Some sexy money. >> And some sexy money. And I'm I'm going to try to um get rid of it, all of it, at some point. Um and then uh at one point I collected a lot of uh Lego. I got really into like buying Lego and I and I did that thing where I would just buy some stuff and it would get shipped in like >> in boxes and I would almost put the whole box unopened into like storage >> cuz I I was like I don't I can't build this and I don't know where to put it.

And at and I remember this one time when I did that and it I saw myself doing I was like hold the fuck up. What am I doing now? Like I'm literally just hoarding stuff. And it was and we've we've shared our various collections. >> Well, not our nails. I didn't get on now, but yeah. >> And then the hobby is another thing entirely, I think, because that's just and and like not even joking when I say that's my bits box. Like buying any amount of hobby stuff, >> I'm fully. >> Yeah. Go ahead.

>> Yeah. Right. Sorry. My uh I every week we learn. So the other week I was doing randomly changing and playing the hut. Uh, we learned then we bought mics. No one mentioned it. I was very sad. But now we're back again. Arnell's not using >> disappointed that no one >> it was. It was it was disappointing that cuz cuz clearly the quality had the quality in content and audio quality had jumped a lot. >> Yeah. Well, this is what you get because now our now is in the countryside. >> Yeah, he sounds like shit. But yeah, that was uh my phone. So now I've leared to maybe put my phones on silent. >> But anyway, um >> buying too many boxes mine and hoarding it. Yeah, basically the the the the the whole story was boiling down to something like a point which was that I now collect nothing >> and I won't and I I think Yeah, because what it is now with cool things that I like is I I know I just I know I'm not going to I'm not I'm I'm going to end up putting it in storage. Oh, right. Here's what it was as well is I I realized when I was into the whole Star Wars thing and it was difficult. It was like a grind

and and it was it was it was both finding things and then paying for them were almost impossible. And then I read somewhere that millionaire pop star Robbie Williams was also a big Star Wars fan and this was again like in the 90s and he had someone like an assistant person buying all the stuff for him. >> Imagine I remember thinking that sucks >> that it wasn't even there was no no part of that was jealousy. It was it was such a revelation to me because I wasn't jealous. I wasn't thinking, "Wow, I wish I was also an asshole that I could buy all the Star Wars stuff." It was just like that sucks.

>> Yeah. It's just the big thing. >> Yeah. >> So, it was just the collecting was much more exciting than the collection. Mhm. >> And I realized like I'm not even and it wasn't really that that's not exactly the moment I stopped doing it, but it it did make me think that like maybe having endless resources and the ability to buy all this stuff, which brings us back to you and the the elder artwork because you I mean it's not like you're made of money, but you can pretty much buy all the Warhammer artwork you're interested in having.

>> Yeah. >> And I see why that wouldn't be quite as exciting to you anymore. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what was it? I also realized like I used to have to message the artists, chase them down, haggle with them, and now we've got one wholesaler who's who's more or less all the artists go to now because he's created the name. So there isn't that chase anymore. Um, and that's another reason why I got sad about that collector of art of of art pieces because he just gets sent them now. So slowly he's dwindling in the in the thing and and it Yeah, I suppose you just replace it. Like right now, I'm so motivated about 40k and playing it. I get the exact same feeling quite consistently from playing as I do with all those collection stuff because they change the rules so much. The rules change, you have to buy new models. I'm there's so many armies that I want to try. Even though like lawwise, obviously I'm a hardcore elder dude. I've I've built an alt list of KR now. Listen to this. Right. So Killerans, you know the Killerans from second edition or dreads? They were dreads then, but

they were like the biggest fucking thing you could have. >> Yeah. >> Now units of six. So I'm going to have 18 dreadnots on the battlefield. It's going to be >> dreadnots or kilans. Kilacans. >> Kills. Yeah. Not the dread dread, but they're the same size as the old dreadnots from second edition. >> Yeah, >> they're they're literally like they basically are that model, right? Um so I'm going to have 18 kilans, one real dreadnaugh, um four trucks, and 40 orcs. Okay. and then 10 GRs and I'm just going to walk across the battlefield, call a wag, and just fucking run at you with everything.

>> You know, do you know that my first tournament when I was well maybe like 15 years ago, uh I went to a tournament in a store and the first guy I played with, he had nine fucking kilakans and just some grud and he wiped me out in two turns. And that may made me hate >> Yeah. >> hate tournaments from that >> because I like why is this fun? >> Tell me why is this fun? Well, yes, I agree with that. I think now in 40k you you don't have that anymore unless your list is obviously like but every army beats every other army and uh if I turn up with these 18 killer cans that they basically can't walk over an army at all cuz they're toughness six five wounds each six up save like I'm going to die right but I'm going to fucking run at you with a load of killer cans super orc style call award to one and just fucking

run at you and then back >> it was also a a thousand point um tournament. So, it was a small tournament and being having nine kilans is an asshole move. Like >> yeah, >> very very >> there was a there was a time a very I mean this was weird but like back in third edition in the store that I used to go to they would ban certain things. I think at one point they didn't even let people play with like three raid lords in their elder army because that was considered a really >> it's actually unbeatable if you're space marines because space marines can't hurt them in combat just charges >> you wouldn't allow it.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um yeah all that broken shit is gone from the game now. There's no one build that is because they every 3 months change the meta. So if something is broken they just get rid of it because it's not fun for anyone. um you'll have a little window like yeah a couple of months where this gets abused but you still have counter builds to it and player skill is massive like yeah I um I I avoided all that era are now like I guess the game >> I love the concept >> it was very roleplay because you could choose your psych psychic powers you had your disciplines and shit and it was it was a lot more complex and inexact So it was not like chess like now which is more like more exact.

>> But then I was disappointed with the with the person in front of me like do do you find this fun? Like do you you have six I nine nine times that just do the just throw dice and then kill me and that's it. That's that's all you do. >> I >> it was it was sad. >> You still get those players now. Win at all costs is what I call them all. they're coined. And I play against a guy, a knight player. So, he has six big knights. It's like a it's a hard counter to some builds, right? Um, and he he's he's visibly upset when he starts losing the game because all he wants to do is walk his models out. There's no skill involved. There's no he wants he wants you to not be able to kill him and he wants to be able to kill you and that's it. And that's how how he gets his 40k enjoyment. So, I guess it's just different for different people. I don't get my head around it, but that's what they want to do. So yeah, I can't remember the point of the 40k. Ah, the feelings.

>> Yeah, >> that the the feeling I get from 40k is consistently the same that I used to get for collecting artwork and sealed boxes. So it's a much longer dopamine stream, but it might be because I still see so much improvement to be had in myself. You know, when I was painting before I got too into it, I saw improvement, but I was much more enjoying the painting side of things. Whereas 40k is much more geared towards chasing my own self-improvement because you're not competing against anybody else but yourself in a tournament really.

Obviously one-on-one competing, but if you went if you won two games and you lost five, you know, the previous tournament, you you've got a metric, a bar to try and get to. It's probably when you're winning every game that you start getting bored, I guess. So, so >> and and so the the improvement that you're looking for is really about getting better at the game and playing the game and it's not just about building new armies. >> Yeah, it's much less about But that is Well, no, that's not true. It's not less. That is a really good side consequence that comes from it. Um I I caught myself daydreaming just the other day for the first time real where I was like, "Oh shit, I actually really want to paint." Like I had that's the first time in four years where I had like a a small flame of excitement.

Like even when I've looked at the avatar and stuff, I've liked the idea of the outcome, but I've not liked the idea of painting. Um and this was the first time where and and that's when I sent you that thing about if only there was a competition. But I still think that painting competition somehow drains the enjoyment out of it. I don't know why it is for me. For me, I'm talking about obviously >> competition. >> Yes. Not not the competition itself, not as in not the entering, but the actual competition when we get there. >> Yeah.

>> And we stand around for two, three. >> I do. Yeah. I thought you made an interesting point before about competing in a painting competition uh versus competing in a tournament because it's exactly what you're saying that you don't actually do anything at a painting competition. Um, >> I would love them to do rounds >> each day. I'd love them to do a cut. You, you know, if you've made the first cut or >> something like that. I mean, exactly. I I I wouldn't necessarily know how to change anything. It's not like I want there to be a a feature of painting competitions where we all sit around a table in tank tops painting, you know, >> together on a timer or being fired at or something. Um that's they are what they should be but it's yeah it is a little like dull. Um I was I was talking to Stephen the other day about like kind of the the looking forward to Golden Demon this year and building up all the excitement about seeing other people's entries and finishing our own. And we were saying that like the first night

that we get there, getting everyone's stuff, the ones that we're living together with and having a look at all these entries um around like table in our Airbnb, that'll probably be the best bit >> cuz seeing all the stuff in the cabinets is just kind of awkward, but that's what it is. >> Yeah, lighting is a bit shit. I wish I could see them better. >> Um and then the award ceremony is like just I I don't know. I don't even think I'd want to be there really. I mean, it's just kind of nerve-wracking and horrible. >> I agree 100%. And I I for me, these events, the best the best moments are when we arrive and we share our figures in the in the house >> and then the last day when we collect the models and everyone shares them.

>> These moments are the best. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, yes. Inevitably, >> it's very, >> but if if we went if we went to Golden Demon and for some reason something happened, you know, the cabinets broke and they had to cancel the event, I wouldn't care. I would honestly I wouldn't care. >> No, I agree. I I actually completely agree. It would be more like, oh, now we have an excuse to talk with all these people, share the models and, you know, have fun instead of putting them in the fucking cabinets and be three days there just doing nothing.

>> Yeah, >> exactly. and and and uh going to events where I haven't competed like Monte last year, World Morn Expo this year, uh World Expo three years ago. Um was really great and I really it really occurred to me that the competing part doesn't matter at all. Obviously, it does matter otherwise I wouldn't do it and you know I want the trophies and whatever else my ego needs. But it's um it's really much much clearer now year after year that that's exactly exactly what you were just saying. If for whatever reason they had to close down uh Spiel and we were just sat in Dieseldorf in our Airbnb and had all these models like that would be fine.

That would be great. >> Um I just want to see all this cool stuff up close and um and and I I think I do appreciate the deadline uh for my own stuff to finish something really cool. I um like I think if I had my ideal I was just thinking like how could I improve Golden Demon personally just just for myself and it did end up very similar to Monty actually. Basically I would just like to eat food very rarely look at the models talk about other people and just socialize. My issue with Monty is our now doesn't come.

>> Um yeah it's still a little bit chaotic because uh people want to go and see the models. want to eat in this restaurant. It It's not a complete chill vibe for me. A chill vibe for me is I'll just do what I fucking want and I'll go with Lionel probably. Um and Albert maybe can book the restaurants and just tell me when to be there. >> It's not unchill though, don't get me wrong. It is It is pretty chill. Monty GD is the opposite of that. It's in a fucking huge ass thing, which is cool for about 20 minutes because you look around, but then then it's not cool. Um, but I can't just up and leave how I would I would probably like to drop off the model, socialize with everybody, do a one or two hours walk around the whole place and then just go back home and play board games for two days. Honestly, >> I would do that. Yeah, >> like that that like >> or some some some board games with some >> some ladies that >> tell us how to play that that was fun and I would definitely play some games

around there. But being in front of the cabinets for three days, >> I can't do it. >> I just don't see that. Even even in the even in that space, I'm I'm happy to play board games at the Airbnb, but even being in that room with the noise level um for even one day. Yeah, I thought it was exhausting. >> Three days in it. Yeah. >> No, there was no time actually that felt kind of relaxed, relaxing, restful. >> I know. And I found it very >> I felt very busy. >> Yeah. Yeah. And that and that. So that's that's what I'm saying I want to get away from in in GD actually. I want I want it to be a holiday, not a stressfest of fuck.

>> And that's that's what it that's what that's um you're talking about Spiel now. The way it's was last year and the way it's going to be this year. I do still think that the GD they they had at Warhammer World fine >> is the best. >> Uh it's the best ever. >> I thought it there's nothing there would never be a better GD than that one. I thought it was great because um it's it was amazing. >> It's such I mean well for obvious reasons but yeah I'm I'd be happy to have it at Warmer World every year. Um >> no I would be happy. I'd be ecstatic right like list it off. Okay.

Warhammer World Museum, cabinets, a room, a bar, a motherfucking all you can eat Chinese, a car park. That's it. >> Not random people. >> Not random people. All hobby, and a shop that you can go and buy Warhammer stuff from. >> Yeah. >> I actually ran into Andy Talbert uh to the old organizer. So, he's changed his job now. So, he was at he was at LGT. Um, and I was like, "Holy shit, what are you doing here?" And he was like, "I'm on the like semi-events." I didn't actually I he said what it was. I I switched off cuz I didn't understand what it meant, but he he's not doing GD now, but he's going on a world tour for two months. Between now and Spiel, he's going to the USA, to Japan, to somewhere in Europe, back to the USA, and then to Germany.

>> Oh, wow. >> In that short space of a time. And then, and that's halfway there. then he's going to Singapore, blah blah blah blah blah blah. He's he's basically doing a world tour, right? Um but it's I can't remember the point. It was just you both know him and it was interesting that he's doing that with with GD. Um >> I guess it's because we were talking about uh GD at at War and >> Oh yeah. Well, they >> whoever's decision it is to do it at Spiel. >> Yeah. They don't want they don't want to do it. They thought it was a a complete failure and there's no exposure. Whereas doing it in this place, >> Sean, >> well, yeah. GGD is is a tool, right, to >> Yeah, they got nothing they gained nothing from it, right? So So now having this at the spiel is their dream because they've got the they've got the biggest banners in the entire event. They've got the biggest space like they must have paid a lot of money for a the banners because you have to spend money to get banners up there >> and their banners like legitimately four times bigger than any other banner. Even Katan Yeah. was small like so it's a it was a big statement I think from GD GW

>> they did I did think about it because they also had uh a sizable retail area and like you said they had a lot of just like branding like it it said Warhammer and Games Workshop and Golden Demon absolutely everywhere make sure that people see that and then the like what we've been seeing >> every year that they sort of marginalize Golden Demon and not give a shit about it is like it's so crazy to not use that marketing uh for marketing >> to use all the the the free uh cool shit that they get from Golden Demon, all the miniatures.

>> So, it's sad. >> So, now I guess it kind of works that way. >> They're doing what they want to do in their company. Like I I'm no doubt that they lose money retail wise versus the price they put in, but then it's marketing, isn't it? That literally is marketing. and and and like they were at LGT and I just for the amount of stuff that gets stolen of my stuff like I'm I'm surprised how they must get a lot of stuff stolen is what I'm saying cuz there's zero security. >> The stuff that gets stolen of your stuff. Did anything get stolen? >> No. Like you know if something you just leave something out and it will you'll be like where's that gone? And then you're like like in a club or at Warhammer or people steal shit is what I'm saying.

>> Yeah. Um, like imagine how much they must get stolen. I don't know. I just feel like it's it's it's a side note. We don't need to dig in it. Right. So, that's the meat of it. There we go. Um, I feel like we've actually got more to dig in. In all honesty, there's I feel like we haven't got a firm conclusion. >> Well, we don't have a conclusion, but I don't think there's one. I mean, we we we are just um chained to this endless pursue of new dopamine things. So I guess it's fine in a sense because it makes us um progress but and change and and do some new things and but I don't think that's well I never collected like you guys >> because I always felt like um when I was doing it I started to feel less of that and

I I I guess I I obviously the lack of space that plays a huge part, but then I kind of always wanted to make it special. So when I buy something for myself, I always do it in special occasions like my birthday or Christmas or I I try to not buy myself things >> during the year. >> It's just so opposite of me. I'm like, "Oh shit." Like, "Oh, fuck. Imagine. >> But I I always been like this and I I actually feel kind of bad when I do.

When I buy a lot of things, you know, when I just go on a spree and buy, which I don't do almost nerves, but when I do, I feel kind of bad for some reason. So, I don't know. It's >> preservation. >> It's very it's a big contrast, I think. So basically, don't let yourself fall prey to it and stop collecting mindlessly and uh yeah, keep two arms if you can, but if you don't, it doesn't matter. >> And yeah, maybe also like acknowledge that again, inflation is a real thing.

There's nothing that you'll be able to do over and over and over again and feel the same way as you did the first time, but that's okay. That's just how it is. And you can still enjoy the things you enjoy. >> Yeah. I often dream about um winning the lottery and just buying all the sealed Pokemon boxes and then realizing how hollow it would make you feel afterwards. Probably >> imagine the third box opening the third box and you and having like 70 more. It's like oh fuck what what did I do? >> No. Sealed from like 99 like like you can't buy those. There aren't that many boxes of that, right? But also the price would shot up if all of a sudden like 20 boxes for 26 grand were bought in one day. Someone would be like, "Oh, I'm going to start charging 50 grand anyway." But I've got billions, so I could buy that. Um, well, this kind of I mean, yeah. Do we have a news thing? I I don't think I adjusted the the uh Hold on. Wait for it, guys. Here we go.

>> Talking about a race car now. >> No, >> it's the news jingle. That's obviously a boy on the street. No one may be. Okay, good. >> So, I mean, we we we space marines. >> So, >> space. >> So, I The dark elder pre-release were out, right? >> I spent 560 quid on that. >> Um, >> you spent 560 quid? >> Yeah. Buying the Dark Elder stuff, right? But when you say the dark elder stuff, you're talking about one named one unnamed character and then >> Yeah, I just bought >> hundreds of products from 2009.

>> Yeah. So, I bought all of them. >> Okay. >> Yeah, cuz I don't have them, right? >> And I need them obviously. >> Oh, yeah. Sure. >> I mean, I do have a few, but it's tough. the army that you went to LGV or LGT or LGB or whatever it's called. What it's what you >> uh you played your elder army. >> Yeah. Yeah. Elder >> the 90 guardian army. >> No, no, in the end I couldn't get it finished. Uh I built them all. Interestingly, actually I got, you know, I ran out of sand.

>> Uh and we were talking about how so I bought I I well I didn't buy it. I bought it. I bought an old paint set, you know, like the the the paint racks like from GW, the old stores, and it had loads of sand. So, I've got another box of sand. So, when this one runs out, I'm fucked because I Yeah, >> you you got the old G the round grains of sand from GW. Yeah. Old school. >> It's in a box. I'll send a photo. Uh, it's brilliant. >> So, but so basically, you bought the new Dark Elar. Did you like Do you like the new Dark Elar stuff? >> I don't like Yeah, I like it more than the third edition stuff. That was awful.

>> Sorry, Gary. Um, I I highly doubt Molly, Gary Moley listens to the podcast. Uh, >> that would be incredible. >> That would be >> one of our six listeners is is sculptor. >> Could be. I have I have spoken to him a few times on the phone, but I don't think I mentioned to him that we have a podcast. >> Maybe maybe Chris Fitzpatrick, the other dark elder sculptor. >> Yeah, the American guy. >> Yeah, this was good. I I I've spoken to him a few times um because I wanted to buy some of his greens. I wanted to buy his Howling Banshee Greens. And he said, "No." I was like, "Yeah, fair.

>> No, >> fair enough." Yeah. He's like, "I don't think GW would be happy with me selling the greens." I was like, "Well, no, they would. They're your property." But I didn't I didn't want to I didn't say that. It's a bit too argumentative. Like, no, you should sell them to me because GW won't mind. I He might have just not wanted to sell, but didn't want to personally message me. Um, so yeah. Okay. Um, anyway, Darker new stuff. I bought loads of that. Uh, I was I'm I'm going to probably buy that new Terminator box from Space Marines as well.

>> Um, >> for gaming. >> Yes. Yes. And uh >> Yeah, I was actually quite tempted to do that as well. I've noticed that when Games Workshop when they do army boxes, seeing an army of anything makes me want armies. >> Yeah. >> Which is um >> Yeah. I've never felt like more of a sucker than >> I I considered buying it too, but >> seeing how they put some old stuff in the neo boxes, it's like I don't want more of that. So, I'll wait for the >> But then price-wise, it's like a h 100red quid or 110 quid or something and you'll get all of that.

>> Yeah, I know. >> That's the issue because when that box gets released, it's going to be 50. >> Yeah, >> I know. when when I buy one of because I I'll probably buy one squad of Terminators which will be4 or >> they've got the price increase in October. >> Yes, but it's still in element games will be like4. >> Yeah. Okay. >> So, buying 40 now and then maybe maybe if I want maybe another 40 in the later is much better than buying now 120 pounds of worth of shit that I don't really want, you know? So that's how they trick you. They trick you into buying things that you don't really need or want instead of just spacing it in time. And that's that's the that's what they play with time.

>> They want to for you to pay as much as possible in the smallest time possible. >> But what about um when you do a different chapter and you need more Terminators, then you'll just buy it when you need it. >> These are all Blood Angels. >> I'm never going to do another chapter. Seriously? >> Do you really have to ask that? >> I said I'd never do Elder. So, I'll You don't want to do Black Templars? >> No. Because if I if I buy something that I don't have with Blood Angel, it's like, "No, I'm going to buy it for the Blood Angel, >> not for the >> What about when they release good models?" >> What I'm going to do is grey Knights, but that's because it's a different thing.

>> Okay. Because they're not Space Marines officially. Okay. And um the last piece of uh in of news, yeah, the other big news was Dragon Head Models had its first official recast. Um so that to me is is big news. Like I don't know if it means I've made it. I always thought if I've if I get recast it means someone likes my model. But apparently um that dragon I was talking to um my Asian sculpture guy and he was like he went to China and Japan and everybody was that's their favorite sculpt that dragon. So >> which one?

>> Uh the first one's uh >> yeah it explains why it's recast and the other stuff isn't yet >> because it's got more resell value. >> But from such a small brand it's it's pretty fucked up. I get why they do it because it's cheap money. Um but uh yeah, it's still pretty surprising that they would take my shit and >> free money for them. Like they don't have to do anything. Just buy one and just recast it. >> Yeah. Yep. And they probably don't even have the cast yet. They probably make it when they do it when they sell some. Um but yeah, you know what can you do? So >> I hate >> that is of course the jingles for Things I Hate. Uh, this is going to be a quick one, right? Uh, things I hate. So, I don't know if this has happened to you guys. I really hate it, but this is like a this is just annoying. You're brushing your teeth. You're obviously in the shower. Um, and then you as you you scoop you splodge the fucking paste on

the toothpaste on the brush. >> And then you swipe down on it, okay? to cut to give a clean cut. >> Yeah. >> Which invariably bends the bristles backwards >> which then flicks some fucking toothpaste into your eyeball. >> Okay. >> I don't think that happened to me. >> I think that's I don't think that's ever happened to me. >> Are you serious? >> Yeah, it has never happened to me. >> It happens. >> You you do it really hard. like you you may have like a trebushe of >> seriously it probably happens once every six months but um and and all of the toothpaste I use are like natural toothpastes right um I've got um I'm like allergic to fluoride or some shit so I use um I use a saltbased one and let me tell you when you get that salt based one in your eye fucking hurts >> but >> salty >> salty toothpaste is a crime against humanity. Every time someone gives me that venom, >> it's like, who hurt you? Who hurt you?

Exist. >> Like, I didn't realize I was uh we weren't going too much of a tangent, but I didn't realize I was allergic to toothpaste until I stopped eating >> and then uh cuz all I'd brush my teeth and then eat breakfast and it would kind of wash your mouth out, right? I think I might have spoken about it before, but now I don't eat until dinner time and my mouth by like lunchtime it would be as dry as a fucking paper. It was it was like it was not pain but painful cuz you'd be drinking so much you piss yourself. Anyway, this second toothpaste, which is where it came from, is a soda sodiumbased toothpaste. Now, let me tell you, if you thought salt in your eyes was painful, I thought my eye was going to fall out when it got in there. Like, normally you close your eyes when you got something in there and the pain stops. Closing your eyes made it worse. I was like I actually put my face under the shower and was like just get it out. So yeah, that's things I hate. Now um we have uh where are we? Where is it? Oh, it's it's not as fast as it's not slow as a race car. It's >> slow as a snail.

>> That's of course the jingle for slow as a snail. Beep beep beep boop. Slow as a snail. Um thank you everyone who voted. Of course, this segment is slow as the snail and next week we will be doing fastest race car again and you will get to vote again. So, it's a it's a bimonthly thing. So, what was voted for? M you you won this Martin. >> Who was most >> Well, this is the question that you won. >> This is the question I voted for. >> Uh, who was the most likely to put the wrong brush back in the rinse pot? >> Who's I'm answering this. Yes, this was your this was they want to know who is the most likely I'll double check that's actually right. Seems like a weird one for them to upvote, but there you go. Um >> I thought I was in this. So this is fast as a race car and then hold up. Yeah, this is um I'm going to read this question.

>> No. Okay, it's wrong. It's wrong. Oh, it's five. No, it's right. Which miniature was the most fun box art for you to paint? I knew it was wrong. >> That's your question. Which miniature was the most fun to paint? First of all, I already answered that. >> No, you've got to this this you're new, Martin. Is you're forgived, mate. >> Yeah, you expand on it. You You now have to deep dive into that question and give the viewers what they want. Listeners, whatever. >> Oh, I see. I see. I see. Yeah, I've answered the question and I want it longer. Fuck sake. Um, so I think I answered the trolls, the the rock trogots.

>> You better hope you got it right because you'll look like a right twat if you get two of them. Like, >> yeah, I think that was my answer for which was most fun. So most a lot of the projects that I worked on were really fun and um that one I think was fun for a number of reasons. It it's there's something about projects whether like for work or for yourself or GD or anything where you've got kind of an idea of what you want to do and you're excited to do it and then that idea carries through to the whole project. So, at no point did I, you know, did I kind of feel like, well, this this isn't going to work or my idea have to change my idea. I have to do something different. It was really, and this is obviously not like the most exciting experimental thing. It's the opposite of that is that I just wanted to do stone trolls, like really classic looking stone trolls from Warhammer cuz that's what they are. Um, so I just um had uh I I think I even had like the the recipe the color recipe in my head immediately when I kind of yeah I I knew I was going

to paint them and I thought right this is what I'm going to do and then it sort of worked. I did I I used the airbrush a bit to build up the colors and that worked and then I um didn't really run into any massive problems. So, I think that's what made it fun. But also, there was this really nice balance between um kind of working on all this skin and all this texture, which I thought was kind of fun and cool and difficult. And then a lot of fun details. So, the faces and the little bird's nest and the like dwarf flowing cloth and yeah, so just a good a good balance of a lot of different things. I think that's what made it fun. Um and um yeah, I'm trying to think of what else to say about it really. It's it's just it's not just that everything worked out and that's why it was fun. It was also like, you know, if it's too straightforward and too easy, that's not really fun. It's also kind of the challenging aspect. I I guess that's kind of it when there's a little bit of uh something that >> achievement >> you're not sure exactly how it's going to work out or you need to actually try

hard and it works out. I guess that makes it fun. >> Yeah. Something like that. >> Makes sense. >> Thanks. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Now, what was So, I've given you two. What was the most unusual request you had from a client? And I don't know if you want to dulge into that because it might be uh conflicting with the client knowing what you're talking about or you don't care and you want to jump in. Well, uh I guess sometimes I had some unusual requests like this one that I said uh adding some pink OSL in a in a very saturated piece which was actually an an illustration. So it made even less sense because it was already an illustration.

So, you know, there's not that much to to get deep into other than I was trying to copy an illustration, which I think I did, and then the client felt like it was not not enough, which which to be fair, I can understand in some way. Maybe not in this one, but I I could understand it. Uh, but then adding a pink OSL just I in my opinion made it worse and yeah it's some some things that happen when you have to pay for commissions and the it's I feel like when you have a commission and the the guy who pays you have a clear idea in your in his head good or bad if they do that's a problem.

Yeah. >> So when when the the customer comes and they don't know and they leave you to it, then that's the best outcome possible. But when they use you as their hands, that's when problem comes. >> Is an issue as a as an elder fan getting commission sculpts. It is >> I know. I know. I I I knew you would relate to this in the other side. And there's also the flip when you do leave them to it and it's nothing like what you wanted. So >> yeah, that's a problem.

>> It's also and that's an expensive mistake, let me tell you. Two and a half grand. Um, so yeah, I I can understand. I think you want a hybrid. You want a nice good working relationship, don't you? With understanding on both sides basically. >> Of course. >> I mean, you ever have you ever felt when you ask the customer I guess like what do you want with this? what is this supposed to represent? What do you think uh this should look like? And they go, you know, does that ever happen where you actually want more input? >> Me?

>> Yeah. >> I I don't I don't want any input if it's possible. >> Yeah. >> Obviously, if it's a if it's an artwork that I'm reproducing. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That that's the maximum input, right? Because that's you have to do it this way. There's no other way around it. But that's fun too because you are trying to rep reproduce the artwork of a master >> into into a sculpt which is fun. >> But someone that doesn't know painting telling me what to do.

>> Yeah. >> I may I may disagree easily with that and then that's when the bad things come. >> So if you ever if if anyone ever wants to commission something from our now shut the fuck up. No, tell him what tell him exactly what to do and then tell him that that's not what they wanted and he has to start again. Interestingly, so I've got I I had a commission >> um and it was really bad. It was very very badly done and I paid half. I thought I'd paid all and now they're asking for the full payment. Now it's so bad that they that they the only way it could be done is if they got five or six times better at what they do, right?

So now we're in a bit of a conundrum because I don't feel that comfortable not paying him, but also I'm not receiving what I'm paid for and they'll feel that they deserve the money even though it's dog shit. Um, so it's it's an interesting uh in in this industry >> I I always feel like when you commission you have um some sort of responsibility because the artist can do what can what they can do and you should know what they can do.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the fact that it's and I'm not saying it in this case or you know I what I'm saying is that it's if you shoot at everything that you see >> Yeah. Yeah. You're going to you're going to tread in a piece of shit eventually. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. Due diligence, right? I also think that um it's like lying on a CV. Some people uh twist the truth slightly and uh say it'd be like me saying sharing our nails work and be like that's my work and they go fuck I'll commission you.

>> Yeah it's uh four grand mate uh half up front and then I deliver them a piece of absolute shit and I go well that's the risk you take. I'm an artist. I do what I want and then I just slap them in the face. So, >> I KNOW. I THINK. >> NO, I don't. >> That is the worst jingle for the uh Grubbusters. The Grubbusters, the world famous Grubbusters. I have to say the reception is and does continue to be extremely positive. Wait to hear this week's ones though because they are not my best. So, Martin Arnow, you are neck and neck if I am not mistaken in the overall score.

Arnell's brother is currently in the lead, but he's lost because he's lost two weeks, so he's not anymore. >> I think I I'll spoil you spoil you a little bit this this this week. >> Uh in I I spoiled it. Not >> Oh, you don't know them? >> Uh I don't know any of them. >> You were on the cast. >> Oh, you're just not good enough to get them. >> Yeah, I'm just dumb as shit and I I cannot get them. So, I'll try to to to get them if you give some extra clues. I at the moment I have no clue.

>> What you saying? Where are you at? >> Um I I'd like to say that I've got two out of three, but um I'm much closer to zero out of three to be honest. >> Okay. >> I'm happy to take more uh more suggestions as well. >> Well, Paul is also in the mix. Okay. So, we've got H. Okay. And this one's I I hardly win anything. Me >> after losing a scratch card. H. >> No. No. Fuck. >> Martin, you must get that one. You've got to get that.

I hardly win anything. >> Hardly queen. Arlequin. >> Yeah. Harley Quins. >> But >> Harley Quinn. I hardly win anything. I hardly win. That's Yeah, you did you did pronounce it that way. So, sure. >> The problem the problem with those clues is that you never know if it's a word. >> Yeah, exactly. >> It's it's boring more and more assume that it is. >> It's are now if you watch that film, okay, and a girl falls over and hurts her knee and they focus on that, you know that that's going to have some sort of plot later, right? Otherwise, they just wouldn't put it in. So, there you go. That's all I'll say. Right. Okay.

Good. So Martin got that marginally slower than our now, but I think he was already formulinating a word on his lips. >> Thanks. >> Cheers, mate. So C, I gave Pippen the dessert and when he dropped it, he said, "Oh dear. Oh dear." I gave him a dessert and he dropped it and he went, "Oh dear," he said. He dropped his dessert and he said, "Oldies. Which letter was it?

>> Uh C. Okay, I'll give you a clue. It's a It's a faction in 40k. He had a dessert and he said, "Oh, de think I think mine's got it. Give our now a second." He's walking. He's got his dessert in his hands. I've given it to him and he goes, "Oh." Oh, and it's all wet and he goes, "Oh, is dessert odies?" What desserts? I know I think our nail's lost this one, right? But what desserts are there that you could have like ice cream cake? You could have something that goes with like a a pie maybe or uh >> I don't I don't I'm not sure what I have to say. Yeah, it's custod.

>> I mean, I was thinking custod, but I couldn't find anything related. >> Custodies. >> Custodies. Custodies. Custodius. Custodius. >> Uh, awkward sods turned up late again. >> Oh, no. No idea. Awkward. Awkward. Sods turned up late again.

Oh, >> orc. >> Orcs. But >> orcs. >> Is it just orcs? Yeah, it's just orcs. >> So, so sometimes it's a lot simpler than I than I think you can. >> I got I got to keep you boys on your toes. Right, Paul, congratulations. You got every single one of those right, unlike these two twats. But Martin, I think you won that 2-1, didn't you? Well, I mean that's generous. I think uh Paul is definitely the reigning champion of this. >> Well, it's the first week he submitted actually. I think Paul, >> what was someone else besides Sarn's brother got?

>> He was he was doing all right. Um but yeah, I I am disappointed that people say they like it, but they don't submit to me. >> Yeah, liking any part of this is completely meaningless unless you put your money where your mouth is. >> I feel like it's sending the email. the problem, you know. >> No, people are private messaging me in uh in Discord. >> Ah, private caution. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty easy. Um, right. So, this week's So, Martin, you're up by one. You are you you're now you're winning are now one. Okay. So, >> Oh, that's last week's. Can't read those out. So, >> we're maybe tied. Yeah. Okay. Go ahead.

This one um is is GK and it's I went to Bengal Berties super late nice night after the tournament and it was bloody great Bengalies in reference to LGT. >> I mean I think I know this one pretty easily. >> Don't tell me. Don't tell me. I like to give you a carrot every now and then. Um so that's I went to Bengal Berties super late after the tournament. Uh and it was bloody great. Okay. Then you've got N. Mhm.

You better not go that way. Nah, you you better not go that way. Okay. >> Okay. Not cool. >> Okay. >> MG. Where's the snowman gone? MG. Where's the snowman gone? Okay. So, nah, you better not go that way. N MG, where's the snowman gone? And GK, I went to Bengal Bertie super late after the tournament. It was bloody great.

>> Okay. >> Okay. I think I might start awarding bonus points if you get the like the actual if you can link in where those clues like and you're like this is the bit. So, if you can do that and not just get the army right, I'll give you an extra point. All right. >> Awesome. >> Um, right, boys. We've got GD hype. We'll do that later. We've got Grbbusters done. Paul's the champion. >> Uh, bloody good show. And thank you all for listening. You two, not the listeners. Don't give a shit about them. Um, any last remarks?

>> Uh, no. I hope that next week we can record a bit more chill and with better sound in my my And talking about GD basically because it's around the corner. >> I think Albert is coming on next week. >> Nothing but nothing but GD and Dan next week. >> Oh fuck. I forgot to talk about my anime. You twats. Right. Cheers, boys. >> Bye. >> We've got a Discord.