Why we still love Golden Demon with Albert Font

>> Well, you say that, Jamie, but in the past when I was guest as well a few times, we always used to do it in the night. >> Yeah, we have uh we have switched and and I'll be honest, I think we like doing it in the day. It it feels uh more lifting, less power, >> but indeed more energy, I think, >> this confused and discombobulated when we record >> it. Um well, let's first do the intros on the episode. It is a Golden Demon special spanza. Um, and our hands >> and uh, yeah, I I'm quite excited for this episode. And of course, I'm also excited for the Golden Demon trip. So, we are currently the five best friends forever. And we should in theory be when we finally meet up, the seven best friends forever. I think >> I think Yeah, I I think we're four.

>> Yeah. I'm saying we the the four of us are only four people and we have two more people traveling with us. >> So forever. Okay, >> that does make sense. >> I I what I did there is I saw four screens on the thing, right? And then I added myself then cuz I forgot that I'm actually one of those people that's on the screen. >> I I thought I thought that's literally what happened that you forgot that we're only four. >> Yeah. Yeah, that that's exactly what happened. >> Just wanted to help you out. >> Well, in a way not mentioning it, but no, I to be honest, I like mugging people off. Uh so myself of course >> Golden Demon special and it's getting closer. We're now the 8th of October at the time of recording which means we're leaving in what? 6 days.

>> No, thank God. >> Slightly more than that, but it's it's two weeks tomorrow. >> A bit less than a week, right? >> No, no, it's two weeks tomorrow. >> Well, what day? >> 17th. >> Cuz we're leaving on a Thursday, right? >> We're leave. No, Jimmy, if you bought tickets for the 17th. No, you're thinking about the other trip in November. Right. Right. on the 23rd. >> Leaving on the 23rd, which is two weeks from tomorrow, and it's a Thursday. >> We're going to do nothing >> for like 3 days. And then someone is going to win prizes on the Sunday. >> Well, I tell you what we are going to do, boys. And and I'm already excited about it is we're going to go to that pizza shop three times in a row >> without fail because there's no other restaurants there. Was that SMC? I'm pretty sure that was Essen.

>> Uh is that the one that we went French guys with Tib and all those guys? >> Uh we went there with Maggie. We we we ate outside with the >> Yeah. the last >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where you had you had two uh what do they call it? The cold pizzas. >> Two calzones. You had two calzones, right? Not one but two of them. >> Being outside was >> was a bit shit but inside was very nice because in at midday there was no one and it was pretty chill moment. >> They opened it for us because of the the ground >> actually. Yes. >> Yeah. So genuinely that's probably the the the peak of of what I'm looking forward to foodwise of course. But yes, Golden Demon. So the episode today obviously we've got Albert coming in and and the reason we brought Albert in is basically we wanted him on the show. We knew that already cuz well we know Albert uh in well very well obviously best friends forever. You don't get that title for nothing unless you're like some guy who comes in for one day and then he'll be that best friend forever for that day but then it's gone.

>> Move on. Move on. Another one. >> Yeah. Um, but it it just it ained. We we we got some insight. We've got some things. What we've got for you, Albert, we've got a tailor made. It's a big deal. Fast as a race car for you. >> Oh, wow. Okay. >> We've got some Q&As's asked by the community of pretty much riff raff. The the scum basically the the dregs of society have got together and they've asked you some questions. So, that's good. Thanks guys for that. Um, like and and then we've got a would you rather golden demon base. We've got we've we we might not have GRBusters. I've not made that work yet if I'm honest. I've I've told you what I came up with for that and it's not looking good because >> this is already an incredibly full episode. It's the GD episode. It's the Albert episode. It's like >> it shouldn't be my episode. It should be the But Jamie, so are we are we checking the the game short release cycle as well and Dan and all that stuff.

>> Well, that come that that Hold on, Albert. >> That's always there. That's right. We've also got the meat of it. Now, the wheat of it is is it can it can flow. It can eb. That's fine. It's why we keep going back to Golden Demon. It's been now 20 years since we've been going. Um, and the future of Golden Demon. >> Some of us, I mean, yeah, the event itself a bit longer than that. >> That was my first uh but that was Young Bloodoods. >> That's still 26 years ago, but sure. >> That's crazy. I went 2001 for the first time.

>> Yeah. So >> 2000 was my first >> Jesus. >> My first one was 2012. >> You're pathetic on that. Get out, mate. >> 2012. >> The crucial The crucial thing about that though are now has been to a games day. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. Yeah. I hate all that counts. So that's the future. We'll get there when we get there. Right. Um and then we've obviously got the news. >> Um and then yes, we've got the optional things that we hopefully will get to. We've got Yeah. Rebel Moon, Elder Project, Dan Dan. I actually do have some real thing I want to tell everybody to watch. In fact, we can unpack that right now. Let's let's get in to the show, but I need to work out what the show was that I started watching. So, let me quickly look that up. Netflix.com browse.

>> I actually forget forgot about Rebel Moon. I don't even know what what was it. So, I think >> I know what >> I have to watch it again. >> Jesus. >> I think it's possible. >> I think we're going to get to Rebel Moon very very soon. For all our eager listeners who want to hear us talk about Rebel Moon, much more than miniature painting, that will happen very, very soon. >> I mean, the people >> I don't even know what that is. >> Well, okay. So, here we go. Here's the news. All right, boys. We're jumping in. Do I have a thing for it? Hold on. Uh, >> you need a whole thing. You just wanted to breeze this out of the way.

>> Right. There you go. That's the That's the jingle for the news. Of course, that's a small um poor um newspaper boy in the like early 1800s, 1900s, right? >> Uh very similar to a chimney sweep kind of vibe is what you've got to have in your head. >> Victorian street urchin. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pickpocket, but he's still a good kid. Do you know what I mean? Like he's got hard times, but Right. Anyway, so my news is literally um the it it's it's not quite anime because it's not anime. It's just animated, right? But it there's a TV show called Pathogen. Is that Have I Have I spel Have I said that right?

>> It says Pantheon. So I think right. >> Close. >> Close. Well, there you go. Don't look up Pantheon. Wait, what did I say? Don't look up Pathogen. It's Pantheon, which I don't know what that is, but I'm What episode? I'm on episode three or four. Six. Wow. >> Is it good? >> That's captivating if I'm on six already. It's amazing. So, so obviously this is not um this is not officially uh painting or anything, right? But I watched Man, they're so good. I know you two didn't like it, but um it's a computer game. Cyberpunk. The TV show Cyberpunk.

>> Cyber Punk is fucking amazing. >> It's amazing. >> Cyberunk. >> You said you didn't like it, Arnell. You were like, I could >> I Yeah, you are the you you remember everything so so vividly. is amazing. >> Punk 2077. >> Yeah, >> it's an anime. It's Well, it's not anime. It's It's It's animated. It's I think it's by >> It is anime. >> Is it though? >> It is. >> It is for sure. >> Okay, fine. Anime. It's It's It's like It's very different from Dan Dan. Of course, >> it's a tragic story, but it's a really, really good. So, what I think is happening with with these shows that I'm watching. So, you've got what's that thing called I just said?

>> Cyberpunk. >> No, Cyberpunk. >> And then you had um Terminator Ground Zero or something. That might be a real film, but you had an an animated Terminator TV show, right? >> Yeah. >> I don't know if you've seen, but that is fucking fantastic. >> You piece of shit. Yeah. Um and and then you've got this Pantheon. Okay. And and for me, they are up there with Dan Dan in in storytelling, but but the thing that I think these shows are getting right is the music. The music is it's so perfectly perfect.

So it I think Cyber Bank is slightly over than maybe I mean when I finished it I felt >> I didn't >> It's so weird. I'm going to find those WhatsApp you were so like >> it might have been Lionel in fairness. It might have been Lionel. Honestly, I didn't know you like >> I'm glad I am very glad that we recruited Albert for this uh >> so we can move these segments on right to get rid of it. >> No, I mean it's fine. We we should definitely spend more time talking about animated shows in this particular episode. I'm saying given that we haven't given that we haven't talked about animation at all for this is this is all a scheme to talk about to to lure people here and then talk to them about anime. It's like we we are not going to talk about >> Well, I fell for that. So, >> so did I. So the point is we're going to pause that and we'll continue next week because you are right Martin people who because our IQ of our listeners is very low right so they're not able to like

digest this kind of highbrow >> as far as we know yeah >> wow I mean look >> that's right but yeah but also we should genuinely like you have now recommended the show Pantheon on Netflix every single person living listening to this podcast all seven of you watch every episode of Pantheon immediately >> seven 10. It's 10 now. It's gone up. >> Yeah. That's a huge increase. That's like a 40% increase. >> Jesus. >> Yeah. Or now it's just fawning over the crowds that are now apparently listening to every word he says. >> Well, the funny the funny thing is there's this running joke that no one listens to you, but then Jamie walks around SMC and he keeps being stopped by people who are like, I love your show.

>> That's the 10. And they're paid actors, Albert. So, >> so we are gonna probably have to jump in. So, right boys, let's do our dawn demon updates. Right, I've got mine. It's pretty quick. I'm not entering anything. >> Jamie, >> expect >> I could enter a reserment. I did, as I said, I spoke to Andy and he was like, "Please don't enter a reserment again." So, >> what did he get to say? What did he >> like to listen to on the road now? Um, >> did he actually Jamie? and we've got we've got we've got photos of every time and we're sick of it to be honest. He was like keep it fresh, keep it real, he says. Although that that said 20 quid in the bank for the Golden Demon, it's not bad.

Um so that's >> you are going I always think everyone should enter something. >> Oh, I'll be entering something. >> Holy shit. >> But I don't No, I I I I've got no real that I think the joke's gone really now. Not with a Zur, but so for anybody who doesn't know, and that's probably everyone honestly, I painted it in a Z in 2019, a Forgeorld statue like 120 from 13 centimeters or some shit. Um, and I've entered it every year to Monty, and it's it's it's served its purpose.

It's pissed some people off, but in a in a slightly humorous way, but those people don't actually like me, so that joke works. And then Golden Demon, I've I've ended it probably twice or three times, right? Um, and then the other times I've got the Elder Project which is me painting stuff like 1999 and I've entered that stuff in and I've never won obviously because the stuff's like not good. It's good for what I want. It's perfect for what I want. It's not for God. So >> I don't think there's any point in me entering basically. >> But for next year because of your now rekindled love of painting as we've discussed, you should absolutely consider entering something. just >> I mean >> paint golden demon >> a whole year >> like it's it's I would like to enter um >> see and we'll get to and we'll get to your love of golden demon as in the meat of it because we all do and we're all going to probably desperately keep going next year >> you know what I think you should do Jamie uh you should do a modern version of of of your young blood that you did originally when you first went to GD in

99 >> what was it an >> El It was a duel, right? >> Yeah, it was a duel. Yeah, which I didn't realize was illegal >> in golden. >> It was illegal to begin with. >> You were a pioneer in the duel category. >> But yeah, you could you could do a modern version of that, like a modern take of that same idea, you know, like Soer did with his tank in the 90s and then he did it in Nottingham. >> So I should really >> do the thing that Soer did exactly like Soer >> and and come back. Didn't it take him six years? How long did it take him? >> At least. Yeah, something like that.

>> Jesus, I don't want to spend that long, but yes, it's actually a good idea and I do like the Eldrad sculpt. >> Um, so Albert GD update just just the update. No meat of it. >> Excellent. Um, yeah, I'm still working on my entry. >> I've had quite a lot of uh trouble for work recently, which has kind of hindered my schedule. I I'll get it done for sure, but I think some long nights await uh this coming couple weeks. >> Jesus.

>> Um I mean, it's pretty advanced, but there's a few things that I still need to finish properly, and it would be a pity to rush them uh you know, given how much time I've already invested in in the piece. So, >> I mean, have you run into any any issues, any uh situations, you were not expecting pain? >> Yeah, in fact, I have. uh and these have been it's it's something that I have not really encountered many times before and it is uh changing the color scheme midway uh in the project. Um, like I'm doing the I'm painting this wizard, right? Like Cities of Sigmar. Uh, what do they call them? Like >> battle wizard.

>> I paint. Yeah, like a battle wizard, right? Like >> Oh, maybe not that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, sure. >> And uh yeah, my original scheme I painted the ropes uh differently. Um and then I mean yeah, like I was two weeks in or something and then I uh started from scratch again, which was a good decision because I like it so much better now. Um and then only recently there was this other component that I spent quite long painting and then I decided to also change. M um I think especially in comparison to my project last year like the the orc shaman this one has been more difficult in in in in color-wise because the orc all the colors were kind of dictated by the materials very uh straightforward you know like a leather cape it's going to be brown and then of course the shade of brown you can choose right but or a wooden crate on the floor it's going to be brown as well and you know all the the I mean of course you can change things in one way or other but I'm not >> but maybe not >> the book stuff it's not going to be red

right it's going to be sort of color >> and here you're working with things like book u like >> yeah what are they called spines and glass bottles and things like that is that what you mean >> exactly like there's a lot of a lot of components which can be pretty much any color right so >> um we'll we'll yeah it has been a bit more difficult to make everything work but I I'm quite happy with how it's turning out So, >> but yeah, basically two more weeks of hard work and then yeah, I'm already seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, which is great.

>> But you haven't had what Martin had like a month ago where he suddenly realized he's not painted enough. A semi panic. Would you agree that Martin? I don't know if that's >> I think Albert did feel that way a month ago. I think >> I was asking No, no. I was asking if if Albert did have that semi panic the same as you. Um, >> by the sounds of it, a little bit >> a little a little, but not so much. I mean, yeah, I've just been painting till quite late >> the last few weeks. So, you know, to make up for >> I I feel like you wrote in a in a message or other at one point that you were like, "Yeah, putting in, you know, a lot of late nights, a lot of long hours." And that was, I mean, two or three weeks ago. And it actually made me think, damn, he's doing that now with like five, six weeks to go. But that's because I think I >> kind of probably the the good thing to do.

>> Yeah, I think I underestimated how long it would take me to paint all the tail because this time the base is quite uh yeah quite detailed as as you have seen. So yeah, it's taken quite long but yeah happy that it's almost over now. >> Deep run. >> But yeah, how about yourselves? How's how's it going for you? >> What you saying? >> Arnow has reached a crucial point in his GD work. Yeah, everything faster than I expected. >> This is this is the funny thing. Today some common friend of of Arnau and I was asking how's how are your projects and I replied I'm very close to finishing and I I said and now is very close to starting.

>> It's absolutely insane that that's actually true. That would be a funny joke but it's literally true. >> These update we only need to spend like two minutes each on these updates by the way because we've got a big meeting and shit. So, this is meant to be a quick uh like what's your thing doing? >> So, what you >> Well, I mean, I don't have much update. I just I haven't started yet. >> But you have decided what to paint, haven't you? >> That's it. >> Yes. Sort of. >> Yes. >> I mean, because uh I'm going to SMC next week. So, I don't have two weeks. I actually have one week and and two days if I paint straight up of coming from SMC. So I really have one week and the the >> How is that not a given or now? How is that not a given? Like standing straight from you know after coming from SMC.

>> Well, you know, >> you will still give yourself a day of rest when when you go. >> My my I I expect to rest these two days. >> But but if I have to use them, I I will of course. It's just that um my idea was to finish uh everything right before going to SMC because I'm I'm coming on Monday. So, Monday night and then I have I will have Tuesday and Wednesday and then I leave on on Thursday. So, I I literally have two days and I will be tired of driving five or six hours. So, >> driving. Holy crap.

>> Yeah. It's not it's not ideal to to work these two days. So if I can avoid it, I will. The thing is when I I was planning the the the piece a little bit, just a little bit with blue tag and stuff and I kept adding things and I I actually I I I had to remove a few things of the ones I had. I wanted I wanted to put like four or five nurglings, but it's like yeah, maybe not. So we will see if I have to remove something else. And if anyone is keeping track of Sorry, Arno to interrupt.

>> No, no, no. >> If anyone's keeping track of what Arnau said he was going to do like two weeks ago, it is no longer a blood angel's chaplain, which explains the nurglings. There might be some confusion there. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Because uh the that would have been cool, but no. >> The the chaplain, even if the conversion is done, uh I it's there's so many elements that I I think I will not be able to finish it properly. So, I prefer to do something slightly smaller or simpler. Although the the base that I'm doing right now with with an urg I have to be fair, I don't know. This year I'm literally playing with fire, but we will see.

>> And you, Martin? Uh well, yeah, very quickly to uh for Jamie's sake, we can move on from this completely uninteresting segment. Uh I've made some progress. I've made some important breakthroughs, especially with um the base, but mostly I've b I'm almost entirely finished with most of the miniatures. So, I'm doing a Space Wolf squad and like all the actual Space Marines are just about done. Just about. And I've um yeah, that's that's it. I think I'm doing okay. And so two weeks sounds both like a long time in the calendar, but also not enough by far. So I'm probably in an okay place.

>> When we record in the evenings, which is prime I don't know when you do your painting actually, but yeah. >> Um whenever I can, literally. >> That's it. I've never spent this much time on painting like you know in a week as I've done for the last month. >> Wow. And that and you were full. >> How does it feel? >> Exact. That's what I'm saying. Literally more than full time. >> That is crazy. So, thank you boys. Let's quickly do the >> things I hate. >> And that of course is the jingle for things I hate. So, this week's things I hate is I'm sure one more people can relate to than toothpaste in your eye.

Have did any of you flick toothpaste in your eye between now and last week? >> No. No. No. No. Not really. >> I don't know if I'm doing toothpaste wrong, but um this one's pretty easy. It's dropping things on a flat surface. >> It's what? >> Dropping things on a flat surface. >> Dropping things. Yeah. >> I cannot express how annoying I find this. It's like >> spend you have to elaborate. I think >> anything dropping anything. Let's say um a a Warhammer base. Okay.

Without a model on it. >> Ah. So something flat. >> Yes. >> So you mean picking it up from a >> and you can't you can't fucking pick it up and you're like this and then you smidge it and then you lick your finger and then it's too heavy and then you slide it and you're waiting for something like a slight divot so you can just fucking put your fingernail under it. I can't express how much I hate that. So, let's get into the meat. >> I share the sentiment. >> Thank you, mate. >> Yeah, I agree. I agree. Nice. Nice. Nice. >> We might have to start tallying which ones you agree with. I'm vegetarian. And that, of course, is the jingle for the meat of it. Let's just do that one more time if you didn't hear. I'm vegetarian.

There you go. That's voted by the listeners as their favorite jingle. Um, so the meat of it. Are you keeping this singing bit to to to mess with us or because you don't have the other ones that >> are you taking polls of what people think in secret? >> Are you just asking people on the street? >> Yeah, I did. You know, I wanted to that was one of my segment ideas that I really really want. I forgot I've had that idea. It was fucking brilliant. It was called uh what people think about stuff. So, I was going to ask a hundred I was going to ask a hundred people these questions. And then you guys would have to say it's a it's like a it's a real game show. I can't remember what it's called. And they're like, "Okay, um things you wear at night." And then you would have to give the top.

>> It's from Family Feud. >> Family from Family Feud. >> And >> yeah, maybe something else, but that's what it is. >> But it was going to be about Warhammer stuff, right? >> So >> that's brilliant. We should absolutely do that. >> Yeah, it it would have been um a relatively Anyway, I forgot about that. to the meat of it, boys. Golden Demon. So, we've all we we we slightly touched on it. I've been going 26 years if your math is correct, Albert. 27 24 years, I guess. >> 24 for me. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, it's not that like like I went every single year, of course. >> But, >> no, I was going to ask like Jamie, have have you you went in 1999? Um, when when was the next time after that? Did you >> did you almost go every year? Yeah. Yeah. From 2016, >> right? Okay. So, you did Okay. So, there was a slight break. >> Yeah. I I um >> I I I was disillusioned by Golden Demons, not Golden Demons, um GW's introduction of an alk. Um I felt like it was very off cuff of second edition and it made no sense that you would have multiple paths and I was um also I just found women and football.

>> Yeah. >> So, yeah. I see. >> Yeah, that part make is I think we can all relate. Well, many of us can relate to not not neither women or football or >> for everyone. But um >> Martin, you also have like a big gap. Uh >> I did. Yeah, a little bit. I had a my my gap was I I actually painted during that time. So it's like technically yeah technically I never got out of it but I did definitely have a time when I was like >> the the first period as a teenager when Warhammer was everything and then the the grownup bit where I'm still in which was uh like seven years later. So there was um there was a that gap was in games days and and Golden Demons as well. So I went in 2000 and then 2001 2002 and then um I actually worked there in 2003 but then I didn't go for 6 years and then I went back.

>> Also it's interesting because >> right because you uh didn't have a golden demon of your own right so you had to travel to the UK every time. >> That's right. That's right. >> Yeah. In in our case we used to go obviously to the Spanish uh GD. >> Yeah. And well, I mean then I started traveling to the French one and the UK one as well. But the first years like the first the first three years or so I went only to the Spanish one >> and then from >> in that period >> the best as as an experience the UK one was the best by far.

>> Yeah. But that's >> because they did it in the in the NIA or the NC and and it was huge, absolutely gigantic, like 12,000 people or or some some crazy number. The years I went uh to to the UK one that the first times I went, there were three holes at the NC. They had the arena, the forum, and the pavilion. And each one is like this massive room. It's like the halls, right? But three of them was taking up. It's I >> whereas the Spanish really would be only one of those holes if I if at that >> like if if the meat of it is why we keep coming back in the future a little bit of the past. I find it I find it slightly sad that we don't have like I never liked Warhammer Fest in the first place and that was probably just because I'm a Games Day guy.

>> But yeah, >> there was there was such a big community around Games Day in my local GD uh GW, right? Like it was an event that the whole store bought into, right? So everybody knew you went with your store. You got the bus together or coach whatever you you built the banner together. You'd have evenings where you'd go. They'd invite you. They'd be like everyone would come along. You'd be >> like >> So So hold up just just for our listeners here because I think so I've been a a staffer in one of those UK stores which was your local one by the way, Jamie.

>> Uh Brent Cross. >> Okay. So um just for our listeners, can you explain You just mentioned making the banner. I know what you're talking about, but maybe they don't. Can you just explain that? >> Basically, you just made a banner. No, but um so each store would would effectively make a banner and you'd have like a theme >> like a life size banner. You >> a lifesize Warhammer standard like one of the banners from the game. >> Yeah. And and and basically you would when you entered the thing, you'd walk in proud with your banner and the whole that whole store basically everyone who wanted to to help build this thing would build it and there were no limits to it.

You could go people would go fucking insane on these banners. Like >> like But >> yeah, it was amazing. >> Like I I guess >> they were huge. They were detailed. They were all connected to the games and they were like it was so cool to see some store had they would do chaos banners or scaven banners or elf banners. >> And as far as I remember then they awarded the best banner was >> Yeah, exactly. They marine statue throw to the store who have done the best money like a massive like one ft tall or two feet tall >> like >> and there was also because because this was connected to the the trips that they would do where this the um the staff would get together uh one of those coaches a bus from the store and they would drive to Birmingham for games day with whoever wanted to come. uh which as Jamie as you said it was like this community event which was amazing.

>> Also, I think it's worth mentioning that it's worth mentioning that Games Day back then was a one day affair. So, that's right. They get there at 9:00 a.m. and then by by 5 they were wrapping up, right? So, it was 8 hours or however long >> it was of you know pure adrenaline and and and you know passion for >> for Hammer. There was no three days of being there and you know >> Yeah, I liked it. Like that's what I'm trying to >> trying to work out if it's just rose tinted glasses looking back, but I genuinely don't think it is. >> I I only No, I I only went to one in 2012 because when in 2013 they didn't do it in in Barcelona anymore and then they stopped. Uh but uh I don't have that uh nostalgia thing for for Games Day. I think it's incredibly better anyway because I don't know if it was normal, but uh in in that edition, every store had their own table with their own game.

So, and that alone was already amazing. I played so many different custom games. I remember playing um a Matrix Matrix um the third movie. Is it Revolution? Matrix Revolution inspired game where you had the dreadnot and you had to kill all the sentinels and then another one that was uh some hobbits um throwing pies to each other in a in a in a tavern. It was it was truly truly amazing. Like maybe 15 uh tables every every single one with special game design >> in or in >> Yeah.

>> In Spain, right? Yeah. >> In Barcelona was >> they did this in in games days as well. They would I remember one game where there was orc buggies racing and they would move the terrain instead of the bikes instead of the cars. Isn't >> that cool? >> So basically like the terrain is whizzing by. Yeah, it was really clever. Oh, >> like I I so the reason why I don't think it is just me looking back because obviously you could argue I like old models and blah blah blah. The new ones are obviously better, etc. So there's there is actually an argument there. But for me, I feel like we've lost and and this is actually my my my main problem I have with modern society in general, right? You you walk you walk down the street, right? And you walk past people and you you feel disgusted at them because you can't say hello. you're not really allowed to interact with them that they're a human being but you have no you have you you don't care about their life at all right whereas >> sorry I thought you were going to say something then um >> well yeah it was bad but I'll let you finish first but because I think I will forget as to as to why we think games used to be so much better and it's

related to what you were saying and it is that >> oh yeah okay >> go on what's happening have we stopped the >> no no we So, oh yeah, right. Sorry to to go back, right? So, basically, we live in cities, so you're surrounded by people more than ever, and you have people always there, but you're more alone than you've ever been, right? Let's say you live alone or you know one person or you know your family. So, there's there's loneliness, but you're surrounded by people. So, in theory, should be more. And I I kind of feel like going back a long time, you would have had tribes, villages, and you would have known everyone in your village.

It's like when I used to go and visit my hometown, there's a population of 500 people. not hometown, but like where my parents lived or dad. Uh, and you'd know most people there. You'd say hello to every single person. You'd get to know them and you'd feel a companionship. And that's what I felt like with Golden De Golden Demon Games Day. I knew everyone in my store. We were all pulling together for something and it was a it was an event, right? And now Warhammer Fest, corporate bullshit. You go there, there's one or two cool things, but you don't know anyone. You don't care about anybody. It's built to sales and it's built to branding. My point is I miss the days when you actually had something to it's not fight for but you had a purpose.

>> Yeah. >> Right. >> Because there's nothing to do either. Like in Warhammer Fest there's literally nothing to do. >> Yeah. They scrap that. >> And exactly. And that's what I was going to say. I think one of the main issues with uh Warhammer Fest was the fact that the studio was banned from attending. >> Yeah. Oh, that was >> because you know when we used to go to to games day back in the day >> a main factor that we were super you know looking for forward was meeting all all the studio people right because I mean those guys were my heroes when I was a kid >> and today's kids their heroes are like Tik Tockers and YouTubers and whatever but back then it was the the guys who featured in white dwarf right like the heavy metal painters and the sculptors because obviously artists would be would be named right in white dwarf like who had sculpted what and who had painted what and stuff.

>> And then you'd go there and you'd see unreleased greens, for example. They would have them in the cabinets and you could you could see the illustrations as well. >> They were actually >> I remember. >> Yeah. They were sculpting. >> They were sculpting all the heavy metal guys like it was amazing and and the fact that >> because you know that they you know Yeah. It is it is it is almost a little frightening because of how big of a difference it made on me uh or it made to me when I went there just those three first years. Every year I got to speak to the heavy metal team and it was like completely uh surreal and like I had way too many questions to ask obviously every time I was there and way too many things I could never understand but but even just the little you know five minute conversation I could get out of it or however long they put up with me it made such a big difference and then coming back years later with like you know chip on my shoulder and trying to enter gold neon and everything. Still like meeting those people. I know people

that are professional miniature designers now that would not be there. They would not work there if it wasn't for meeting other miniature designers at games day. >> Like people as well, right? Because people would show them >> Exactly. >> sculp like what is it? Amateur sculptors would >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Their greens and they showed them to >> And it's happened so many times. Exactly. They would come there with their greens. They would show it to like Ali Morrison or Jazz or someone else and they would get loads of input, loads of feedback and sometimes they would get like yeah let's you know let's stay in touch >> while you Yeah. Uh, and a lot of Golden Demon winners were kind of given a card from someone in the studio like you should should vis I I I don't know not having any of that like completely abandoning that element is worrying to me that massive disconnect between the studio and uh the dregs.

>> So I guess the future of gold uh this is GW this is Golden GW in general, isn't it? Not necessarily Golden Demon, but it's all back at the same day, isn't it? >> Yeah. Specifically, this is related to like what's going on with the events, but it's true that Golden Demon isn't >> Yeah, it's it's not synonymous with games and Warmer Fest. It's just that's kind of for for all of us that was sort of the main reason for going and now I have no idea why anyone would go to a Warmer Fest like the one in Manchester. >> Yeah. If there wasn't a Golden. Yeah. Yeah. They had the tournament and they had Golden Demon, right? Yeah. I agree.

I I I like I think that the games days were brilliant and I think that the Warhammer was it games day in Leicester or was that a Warhammer fest? >> I think Warhammer >> Lester but in Leicester >> no Coventry he mean >> yeah Coventry they were still okay. You had the studio you could talk. I remember meeting Simon again Egon and and everyone there like I didn't like the where it was but they were still to the roots right still had painting courses still had things. Still had unreleased. Tris had her massive fucking forge world dragon the beast and yeah it it created a connection. I don't Yeah.

Golden demon though. So um >> why keep we coming why do we keep coming back? Right. That's the question. >> Yes. Well it's also the future. So we have I mean it's good conversation. I know we shouldn't just shit on good conversation but um it's more about for me I kind of feel like the reason why we go back is because of what it meant to us in our childhood. aka >> I totally agree. >> Yeah. >> If if you got into painting last week, would you really go? Like I'm interested by the motivation of the young kids, you know, there's a lot of those those there just some amazing blood young bloods basically. I know they've raised the age limit now at 16 instead of 14 and I do think those two years makes a big big difference on on what you can can deliver. Um irrespective of that, I still think their quality is very high.

>> Um >> yeah. And >> yeah, but but you can totally tell how painting miniatures is a hobby that is aging quite quite quite badly because when I when I used to enter GD and I was a young bloods kid myself >> stacked the largest of them all. It was like 500 entries in Young Bloods. It was gigantic. And you go now to SM and Young Bloods has maybe what 20 entries 15 to 20 >> entries. It is 400 500 man. It was huge when I was a kid.

>> But there's a lot of people that's coming to the hobby and they are already like 20, 30 years old, but there's a lot of people coming to the hobby. The the thing is that they are coming in a later age. >> Yeah. >> Just just because the younger >> for sure. But what Jamie was mentioning before, I I do wonder as well like people who only started painting during COVID for example or like a couple years ago or whatever and they're super motivated to go to Golden Demon. But it makes me wonder like how do they perceive Golden Nemon, right? Because they don't have they don't have all these old memories of how it >> I do I do perceive it like it because I'm not I I only went to one games day in my life and then I went to in the 2012 and then I stopped until 2018 uh which is already the the new commentary.

>> So I actually don't have anything any nostalgia for Golden Demon. I I literally go because of the figures and because of you guys. So, it it's it's the the best trip in the in the year because we go and have fun and look at models and you know >> and because you don't go to Monte. >> Yes. Shots fired. >> Yeah. Well, >> I think I think it's it this this year this year I think the the scales have completely tipped for me to where I it's very easy to motivate going just to see you guys and also others to a much lesser extent. Um that's like >> it's it's a holiday, isn't it?

Basically. >> Yeah. And it's like I know both are now and I touched on this last week or the week before is that if we show up to our the place we're staying uh like uh Messa Essen collapses and Golden Demon is canled. The trip would pretty much be fine. I would be totally happy with that. >> It would suck to you know for the Golden Demon entry. It's like damn I don't get to compete. But actually I would still get to see all of you guys. I'd still have my entry that I've worked on through a deadline and I get to see everything that you guys have painted. I would be totally fine with that.

>> Martin, if if you went to either GD or Monte and it it went along. It's not like it was canled. >> Yeah. >> And you attended both, but in one of them you could not enter. So you were just there as as an observer. Which one would it be more more hurtful not to be entering? >> Well, Monte, no. I mean, Golden Demon. I I kind of I kind of have to go there without entering >> because I would feel so, you know, so jealous that I'm not there in the cabinets. Whereas for Monte, >> obviously I'm still entering every time I go. But I think I could definitely enjoy Monte more without entering >> because you know I get and then there's the >> and I guess I guess that's where the kind of the the nostalgia and stuff that you guys are talking about the sort of providence of what Golden Demon has meant to us before. That's where that comes in is where I'm not going without entering something. Um it's like such an event for me this this uh uh yearly thing. It has to happen and why I also want it to be a certain way because of

how it used to be or whatever. But um it's true. I I I would obviously be sad if I couldn't enter or didn't. But I think it's it's it it helps me a little bit with the potential like disappointment of maybe not winning something as well is to kind of remind myself that like that's really not why I'm going. Um cuz if it's kind of >> you went for a while to compete right more than like with Ste. >> Um it's a good question. I think I think I've I'm always competing um in the sense that I'm trying my best, you I'm not just bringing along whatever I've happened to have painted. I've always done things for Golden Demon and really tried to uh you know paint my best, do something cool. Um but yeah, I've been going there every year since 2011 now, competing every year except the pandemic years obviously. So yeah, pretty much as often as I can >> for fun though as a thing. I mean it's interesting like oh so why do we keep

coming back like >> I'm obviously not competing but for four years I did or three years I did compete in earnest and it was it was because of how much I I you know untold hours reading white dwarfs like I think there's a there's probably like a 24 white dwarf period where I did I I wasn't a great reader right I'm shit at reading especially at that age but I I still managed to break the white dwarfs from from flicking them so much between the months, right? Like um I wasn't reading like the articles in depth and stuff. I was just I don't know. It was just like a visual experience I guess.

And I was reading but I wasn't but that was the main thing, right? Like hunting down old white dwarves with golden demons in there and there was no websites and it was like this weird and you talk to people and no one in my local knew anything about Golden Demon really. They're all shit at painting. Um, >> yeah, you're basically describing my own my own experience. >> But also, I think it's important to to mention here that back then Golden Nemoros pretty much the only fantasy competition out there, right? So, it's not like you had the choice to go to Monte or to go to SMC or to go to anywhere. If you want if you painted fantasy miniatures, you went to to GD and that that was that, right? You didn't have the option to um to go anywhere else, you know? I think maybe Eurom Military was the first who introduced which introduced a fantasy category but that was quite late that's around the time Chris Clayton won. Yeah.

In Fkstone that's uh that's when Chris Clayton won the best of show more or less. >> Um >> is that that troll thing that he built? >> No, it was I think a St. George killing the dragon. Um, but that was about the because all the other shows you had like Sula Diplom in Jirona, you had uh Leon Lampante in Madrid or wherever it was in Spain like you had a in Italy. You had so many contests but they were only historical based. So GD was really where all fantasy artists used to gather >> and that's what made it special.

>> When they did GW in Nottingham basically this show is is is part bitching, part reminiscing. Uh, and that that's kind because because I loved it at Warhammer World and we had all the star study people came back. Arnell failed miserably. Everyone else did really well. Like I still think you should that are now like good times >> to not get it's it's it's beautifully awful in in how it's in >> I I actually thought about about bringing it back but bring it back. >> No, I will not.

>> You've got literally nothing. It's your pride that's stopping you. That's what that is. That's ego. I brought the same model five years in a row now. Let me tell you. >> Yeah. And and to be fair, I think that you should bring it like 20 more and become a legend of Golden Demon. Like there there will be no Golden Demon without a Sherman in the cabinet. >> I had exactly this conversation about one of my previous entries, which isn't even that old about entering it again. And someone said like, "Well, maybe it's just that, you know, a lot of people might not have seen this at all." And I thought actually that's a good point. It might be for me. The question is, would would these old entries represent your current level? Because if they don't, then I wouldn't be comfortable entering them.

>> You know what I mean? I want to enter my best. >> Yeah. But if it's if it's last year's then this is exactly like or else you're talking about your meiston, right? >> No. About um Dante, but I I wouldn't bring >> anything that is not um like one year old or you know, two years old. I would consider uh I don't I would never bring >> like >> No, like that's exactly my point, right? You wouldn't bring something that is quite old even if you've never >> No, no, no. Only the only exception is a German.

>> Yeah. Right. >> Oh, in the case of Jamie. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course, >> I was thinking when did I know a German, you know? I may paint one and then I'll keep uh expanding the the legend of Jamie, you know, and I will >> I've actually got that. Ah, no, you couldn't. I couldn't. We couldn't do a taskmaster on a model that big. I've got those. I've got those. >> That would be that would be the the taskmaster of for the years. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Like all of us paint this is from because that model is still decent from Simon. Like >> it's it's it's like it's amazing that like you can look at some of the other sculpts from that era like this. So I'm talking about the Forge World large scale model.

>> Yeah. Yeah. The large scale stuff. They're from 99 I guess 99 >> to like 2006ish, right? And some of them are just some of them are not as good as others. Um >> some are really bad and some are really really good. >> It's Yeah, but there's there are very few that are really good, I will say. like as in they were amazing then because there was nothing else big big anyway golden demon so >> so just uh just going back to the original question wouldn't you agree then that the reason we are going coming back to the demon is because of the fear of missing out imagine if if we all went >> and we ourselves didn't you know like like Tony this year Tony is is >> he's dying right now >> he's crying in the in the corner annoyed.

>> He's actually sad. >> Well, he had he just had a kid, but he is very sad, mate. >> I've got two because he's not coming. >> And I don't even enter and I'm going. And that's a semi joke. Everyone's situation's different, but he is weak and feeble basically. So, like, do you know what I mean? Um, >> but I don't know. you're totally on point because as as you know before I started my my entry I was debating myself whether to do this piece or a big piece for Monte right and in the end I went for the wizard because Adepticon happened and I saw everyone going to Adepton and I felt a massive FOMO and they was like okay you need to do GD >> and and and don't you think that the the huge increase in popularity of Golden Demon is exactly because of this that everyone is seeing how how we are going, we are having fun, we are talking about it and then everyone wants to join in the this because in the in the last three years on well after the pandemic the popularity has been

um growing up you're talking specifically about my YouTube videos, right? And how they're creating that buzz and that hubbubs with the four. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking about. Of course, there's about 500 people that enter Golden Demon. So the the viewers are there. There's definitely a a combination. >> Your your your Frozen video is uh I mean peak cinema. >> It is perfect to be honest with you. >> Like I don't know if you managed to it's it's I I caught lightning in a bottle with that video. Um you know >> the Manchester one. Yeah. The Manchester >> Manchester one. I retired after that.

Like it's like a direct >> You did. In fact they had to force you to finish that one off. Right. >> It took me like n 11 months before. Um, so >> it was worth it though. Jame, >> the thing is I don't have FOMO for that. Like I've missed MSMC and I don't miss not going to SMC at all and I'm still >> No, but we talking about GD not >> Yeah, I think now has a point there. It's weird. We But apparently apparently it's not for at least for myself and I guess for Albert and Arnau as well. Uh, well Albert just said like you could have done something for Monte and you decided to do GD. had to world where he could have done Mont like Monty means nothing. It's it's an accolade on a on >> it's No, this is my opinion. I'm not saying you guys don't have to share that opinion, but for me winning Monty doesn't mean anything, right? Getting your name on a plaque on a fucking wall and getting a huge statue and you you're immortalized. Tell me the winner of the best of fantasy from 2014.

You don't know, right? Tell me the fucking Slayer sword winner from 2016. You you probably could give me a good guess, right? >> David Choper. >> David Choper. Yeah. >> So, it it that for me is the reason why Okay, maybe you're right. Fear of missing out. >> I honestly just think that's what it is for whatever reason. And this is this is something I said a proper thing that's been going for >> I was saying this I was saying this to someone last year is like you know even as as shit as Golden Demon gets I'll probably still go and I'll be like the last person there.

>> Of course I don't give a shit about the judging. I mean I will still go. It's not it's not it's not about the price. It's not about the price. It's about >> journey >> entering. No it's about painting. It's about entering. It's about the sharing. the the price is literally at the very end of it. And it's >> and about being inspired as well by all the different pieces, things that you wouldn't do yourself and and and cool ideas that maybe even if in execution they're not the most perfect or the best painted or whatever, as ideas, they're still really cool.

>> The dogs last year, >> he had the dog trainer who was going through the polls. There were the polls. >> Yeah, it was brilliant. >> He didn't win a single he didn't win a pin. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, he got moved right from squad to diarama. >> So maybe but still relevant. It's still it was still >> it was one of my favorites. >> Yeah, >> it's very well done. >> Yeah, I told him at three parts that it was one of my favorites and I was very very angry that he didn't get the pin. >> It is it is weird. I I that's another thing that feels I don't know if if it's to do with the popularity, but it feels like the buildup to GD gets bigger every year that the kind of hype these few weeks before get more exciting and it's kind of uh pensive like almost sharing stuff that we do and >> you know without a doubt and in fact I was talking with with her now this morning uh in in in a WhatsApp group that we have but there's this guy in Spain who is keeping track of potential entrance to each category in his toilet

wall. Have we spoken about have you spoken about this in this podcast? So this guy keeps track of >> this guy has has a yeah he's basically like single fantasy and then all these people like he has a list of 20 people and then squad >> like shares online or >> yeah just from from Instagram and shares online and whatever but he keeps track he keeps track of who's going to enter in his toilet right like this level of madness you you wouldn't see with with Montdale or with SMC right >> is that so he knows which category to enter like to give him the best chance of winning.

>> He doesn't go. >> No, no, he doesn't go himself. >> But >> which makes it even weirder, right? But >> that is weird. >> The the point is that the Yeah, it's exactly what you guys are saying, right? The the passion that GD somehow manages to to build up is is just unparalleled. >> I think it's because it's the hobby that we all love the most. It's the reason why we're here, 40k, fantasy. um blah blah blah whatever where and and it's that on a hyped up level and the standards amazing and it's just three days you get to live breathe and talk that basically or just meet up with your mates and go and buy pizza but it's it's still in the universe that you like compared to Monty which is everything like I go to Monty and I'm not an artist so I see a lot of the stuff and and and the stuff I notice the most is the the 40k stuff for sure like my favorite piece last year was that Blood Angels large scale thing you know with the Tyrannids.

>> Yeah, I remember that like a Space Hawk scene, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Which was I thought it was amazing. >> It was amazing. Yeah. >> And I asked him um if he did it, but I didn't have the balls to be like, "Can I just have your STLs, please?" Um cuz I would I would print a space marine up that fucking big. It would have been amazing. I didn't know. Yeah. Anyway, so >> incidentally, Jamie, sorry to to digress here, but what happened with your like one meter tall? >> I broke it. I fell off the window. You >> broke it? It literally fell from there and it crashed into a million pieces. And that was like nearly a year ago. I basically threw a tea towel back into the kitchen and it just caught this fleck of his the side of his sword cuz the sword is is is legitimately like 90 cm. And then it was fine and I was like, "Oh, thank God." And then it just slowly went and I was like, "No." And then it went, >> "But you you should print it again, man.

It was the most amazing statue ever. If you printed that in bronze with patina and stuff, it would be like an insane thing to happen. >> I should print three and we should do them for task masters. >> Imagine that. >> They knew it was coming. But yeah, >> the digression over. >> Yeah. So, okay. So, we know why we keep coming back. Basically, it's the only competition that's worth shit and everyone loves it and >> but no I against the other competitions because I love the other competition. >> It's a different talking about GD. For me, it's related to childhood memories. That's for sure. In my particular case, >> I think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy as well that uh we all we all like it.

We all go, we all talk about it and then people who don't want to join in and then we we it grows and we all fear of missing out and then it's it's like a you know it keeps growing because >> the feedback loop >> because basically >> yeah it is. >> Yeah. Um, and the banter aside on the other competitions, I think what it is and important to say why people go is the number of competitions are uh you're playing you're you're uh fighting against yourself. You're competing against yourself, right? Golden Demon is the only one really where it's the top three. So um so yeah, like they're not shit obviously they're really good but you're you know that if you're good you're going to win gold. So it's relatively boring. But but also it's not only that I feel like nobody gives a shit who wins at SMC. You know at at GD everyone is talking about it before and after for a week at least and all the pictures get shared all there's WhatsApp groups fuming. So, but with with SMC and

Monty, it's just one day after it. If if so, nobody gives a shit because, you know, it's it's not important >> because because there's no competition. That's why I feel that's the case. >> And there's even more than one best of show, right? >> Most of those. Yeah. Which I don't know. There's something really simple about Golden Demon that I like for anyone who's aware of the different GW like >> worlds and then you know you've got your single, you've got your squad and then a slayer sword is just one slayer sword.

There's just something really pure about it that I think >> and and also SMC and multi are more niche. >> Yeah. So even more niche than than which is more mainstream. >> They're just totally different experiences for me. >> Yeah. and then they bluff them equally. But yeah, they're just very different. >> You you you Well, actually that's not true. I was about to say you wouldn't put the same effort into those, but you you absolutely did. >> Well, my biggest squeeze ever is the dwarf, and that was for world exp, right? >> So, I take it back. Um, and then the future of Golden Demon. So, I'm I'm slightly worried about it. I mean, I was more worried about it before when it left the UK and then it went to Germany.

And I was outraged by that cuz I am a patriarch. Not a patriarch. I mean, I am I'm a bloke. I'm a patriot. Um, and I do like England even left. Um, and I kind of felt like you had whatever it was 38 years in the UK and then they were like, "Fuck it. We'll go to Germany." And I thought they were like really getting stuff back. There was they were going to do an English and they did a Germany, right? And then they did the US and I was like, "Oh shit, we're going to start going back to B." And then they were like, "Nah, fuck that. We'll just do America and Essen." Um, and I kind of feel like if if there's no real gain, um, it's not moneywise, but for the company, then they'd scrap it basically.

>> I think >> which is insane because we are all here in in in in part because of Golden Demon. We we were inspired by Golden Demon and we are absolute um obsessed people with games worship. partly thanks to to Yeah. Yes. But you know it's it's it's free publicity. It's not only free publicity. It's the best publicity ever because they are models extremely cared for um new converted.

There's you know if I was like businessman I'd be like who who am I targeting with this right? Like the average person isn't going to see Golden Demon things and think the fuck, that's what I want to play. They're much more going to be captivated by the game rather than Golden Demon. >> Yeah, of course. But that it's a massive um marketing campaign. Obviously, I I'm not saying that everyone that that sees Golden Demon will enter Golden Demon. It doesn't matter. What matters is that they get inspired by it and they just want to buy something. It's the only thing that matters. It's also too it's it's it's weird too because it's such a hard thing to measure. I mean you're right Jamie it's from a very very strict business sense if you look at the sales of one model like correlating to whether or not it won a Golden Demon. I mean first of all unless it's released 5 minutes ago they're not even measuring it. And aside from that no you're not going to see a big blip. But like I think if you check with uh staff in the

warmer stores, you'll definitely see a lot of people coming in after Golden Demon saying, "Oh, which model is this?" Or, "Yeah, I was really excited by I want to do something like this myself. I want to start this army." Like there is that is absolutely happening. >> Random people who aren't into the hobby finding Golden Demon. It's not on they don't have a website. There's one article on Warhammer community. Well, there's a few articles for >> there's stuff out there that that that you know things might end up on someone's explore page if they're into like DND or >> talking about it in honestly. Yeah. I don't think winning pieces have really an impact in in in sales at all. But cool models are good promotion, you know, in in any case. So, >> yeah, it's like any publicity campaign.

You obviously cannot measure the sales of a of a of an ad campaign of the brand, but you all all companies spend a unbelievable amount of their budget into publicity is the most important part of any company and Golden Demon is such an easy I mean understand me it's it's an easy way of campaigning because everyone's doing the job for you. >> All you have to do is put up the cabinets really and not >> Yeah. Exactly. So I think it would be so stupid to not keep doing it. >> Well, they didn't do it for how long did we have two years break? Was it three years?

>> That was specifically for the law for lockdown. They literally couldn't rent any venues to do a worm. >> Year where they could have done it and they were like nah, let's just not do it. >> Yeah, there was one year only 2015 I think it was >> where there was no games and no demon at all. >> Yeah, 2015 they did they did mini demons. >> They don't count. Well, not but they still they still had events. They still gave out Golden Demons. I mean it was >> there is one year there is one year where no classic >> it might be in 2015 that didn't have one >> I think I think Richard which way won the the sword.

>> Yeah. And that was and that was like September October 2014 is which don't consider cannon like they're not cannon in the in like mini demons. They they they >> I agree. I agree. >> They don't count in >> No, but I'm saying like if if we're talking about whether or not they count or not, if we're talking about Games Workshop's attitude to having the event, they still said we should do something with Golden Demon in 2015 is what I'm saying. They didn't go fuck it, let's not have a Golden Demon. They said, "Fuck it, let's have three." >> More the more reading into it then is what they've done here with Essen and moving to Essen and like it's not cheap Essen, right? like >> no but I think I think the original idea of games workshop was to bring it to UK Games Expo but then apparently they to yeah it didn't go well or whatever and then they they ended up in in Essen.

>> Yeah because they didn't want >> but I think originally they wanted to do it in the UK that's that's what the rumor has >> there so much more exposure to doing it in Essen than at Warhammer World for them as a company which is sad >> that that's for sure. Yeah, >> because I mean you have all the foot traffic, right, of unrelated people who walk past the cabinet. >> I don't hate it that it's there. Obviously, I would prefer much like 100 million times to be to make it in Warhammer wall. But the the thing that it's it's in in Germany with going going outside, flights, road trip, whatever, that's some sort of fun too. I I wish they did both. though if it was in Nottingham to be fair, we would still get the road trip. We'd still get to go to All You Can Eat Chinese. Like >> the coolest thing of of Manchester was that we went to that last games work store, right, Jimmy?

>> Milton Kids. >> I had a dream about that. I literally had a dream about that last night. Like >> last night, >> literally, it was honestly um I've forgotten that I had it. It was It was >> That was the best road trip we we ever made, man. It was so freaking cool. >> Was that Manchester? Yeah, I suppose that was all on video, actually, wasn't it? when they wouldn't let me film with the drone in the store. You bastards. Um, >> so well I guess we've semi covered it. We can dive in, but the future of Golden Demon basically is as long as it makes them money, they'll still do it. >> It's It depends on if we're talking about speculation or wishes. I mean, what we want is a whole other thing. I I don't think my list is that long. I think the one in uh the one in Warmer World was pretty much spot on. They had people from the studio judging and Warmer World is a nice uh venue. Uh those are kind of the two things.

>> It's way too small. I mean tickets were already limited back then, right? I don't think back then many painters couldn't enter because they they didn't manage to get the ticket. But in this two years, since not three years, right, since 2022, >> the popularity of J has exploded. I think if they did it in Warhammer World again, there would be so many people that that couldn't manage to go in. I mean to to to get a ticket. so many of them. So, it's not really an option. >> Yeah, it's not possible. I was gonna say do it over two days, but yeah, it's just not stupid. Stupid idea. Um, well, I guess we're all like Golden Demon. We're probably going to keep going for a while and let's hope they don't cancel it. I would love it if it wasn't in October.

That's it. That's my um >> That is an issue though. Yeah, because it's too close to all the other shows. It's br I mean I like I said I don't think we're going to go to Monty next year because it's too close. Lionel's definitely not going. >> Lionel isn't. But Jamie the ice cream. Are you going to miss on the ice cream? >> Do you know what? Honestly, I'm going to miss the lasagna more than the ice cream. >> Okay. >> Um but >> what are we saying? We're not doing Monte next year. >> I'm not saying I'm not saying I won't, but as well >> it's so tough. My wife hates my guts because I go like I go for 5 days and I go for like 5 days within like 3 weeks and she's like >> I hate you and you're a piece of shit basically. She's like do you even love me? And then I say no and then she cries.

>> Question. >> Um so that didn't happen. So where are we at? We are at We've done it. We've done the meat. We are only 1 hour seven in. So that's not that bad. Right. Where should we go? >> Um, fast a race car. >> Of course, the famous jingle there for fast as a race car. This is the section where we ask somebody out of it. Um, 10 questions. You got two minutes to answer them. You have to answer as quick as possible. Uh, I think the current record. What did you did you answer? Oh, we did. We only do 10. So, it's actually not that hard to finish, is it?

>> I think you want to answer in one single word then, right? Well, I don't think you can answer these in one word. Um, >> okay, fair enough. >> You might be able to. Who's got the clock? >> I will. >> Okay. Yeah, it's kind of close. Good. >> Let me put that. Okay. >> Good. Have a squeak. >> One. Oh. What's the first thing? This is from Lionel, by the way. What's the first thing you said when you realized you'd won the Slayer Sword? >> The first thing I said?

>> Yeah. Or thought? I didn't say anything. I was just very happy, I guess. >> No words. No words uttered. No words uttered. >> How long did the winning model take you start to finish? Honestly, >> in hours I don't know, but it was like five months of work, more or less, cuz I started in December, I think, and GD was in May. >> So, around five months. >> What's the strangest or most awkward conversation you've had at Golden Demon? at Golden Demon. Uh, strangest conversation.

Oh shit. Uh, I have been I don't know. I can I cannot think of any of anything. >> It's too awkward to say. Good. I like it. Did you ever have a moment >> of things, but yeah. >> Did you ever have this uh Did you have a moment when you nearly didn't enter? I guess that's this year. You >> No, no, this year I was going Oh, well before I started the entry, I suppose. Yeah. I mean, I there's plenty of years that I haven't entered, but if I go to GD, I will enter. That's the thing. >> That's what she said. What's the weirdest piece of advice you got for someone before the painter competition?

Someone telling you something that they think they're better than you, basically. >> Well, I mean, some people are better than me for sure, right? So, uh, but we >> advice. >> No, no idea either. These are difficult. How many color tests or failed bases happened before the final one? >> For which model? >> For the stored. >> Uh, zero. >> Okay. For the orc. >> Zero as well.

>> Okay. For this one that you're doing now. >> One. >> Okay. Good. We got What's the What's one non-hobby thing that helped you win? Mindset, music, ritual. >> Hold on. I mean, it's >> I don't know. Ask her this. We we need an answer for this. >> Uh perseverance, I think, and willpower to get on with it even if stuff. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Be a man, basically. Um it's Yeah, man.

>> I mean, well, um willpower is an amazing I've always said that. That's that's >> because that's the the exact situation I'm in right now. I'd rather watch movies in the evening, right? And I you have to go and sit down and paint and I do it, right? But then it's it's it's worth it at the end. So I'm happy to do it. >> Yeah, >> it's suffering now for well not really suffering because I enjoy the process of painting. That that's the thing, right? If I did not enjoy painting, then it would be actual torture having to paint every day. But the thing is sometimes I you know if I eat dinner and then oh shit, I'd rather be in the sofa. And it's kind of a pain to go and sit down and start painting. But the moment I start painting, then I'm happy. You know what I mean? Because I enjoy it.

>> But if I didn't, it would be the worst thing ever. you you can do something you enjoy but when you stretch it out in such large quantities or in stress then it becomes more about you're focused on the >> mature it can become mature for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yes. Right. So, you got seven, I think, Albert. They were hard questions though. Most of those were like you could have conversations about them. >> Some of those I I just canot I have to think about them because I don't remember. You know what's the weirdest thing they told you at GT? Like I don't know, man.

>> Lionel Lionel let himself down there basically >> with those. >> You talked to Jamie every day. So, that's already thing was regulation 3.2.5 2.5 doesn't allow you to fly drones in Warhammer Wall. That's probably one of >> you were the target of that phrase. >> That is true. That was the strangest and that was awkward as well. >> Honestly, that was awkward. That's the first time I'd met him. You know that. Literally, I've been speaking to that guy for years online and then that was how I got introduced to him. Right. So, um, where are we? We are now at Oh shit.

>> Busters. >> No, we don't have it, mate. Oh shit, we do. No, we do. But wait, fine. >> Give it a rest, mate. >> Fuck. >> I don't remember what that one's for. >> What was left for? I don't remember. >> It's give it a rest. I think it's when one of us is talking for too long. Any of us can hit that button. >> Ah, right, right, right, right. >> I know. I think. >> No, I don't. Okay, that is the the jingle of course for Grotbusters. I'll be honest, I don't have any new Grotbusters. I feel slightly uh but I tried to I spent too long thinking of Gropbusters for Golden Demon and it's just impossible. Um >> I have one for you, Jamie, if you want.

Uh Grobbusters for GD. >> Oh, okay. Go on. >> Should I pass his own weight? >> Right. Okay. So, last week's Albert, I don't know if you did these. Probably not, right? No, >> you don't. I don't think you Yeah. Okay, fine. So, >> I do sometimes, but I'm not used to >> pussy. So, Grubbusters for anybody who doesn't know. Oh, now that is an unusual face that you had there. Um, forbusters, anybody who doesn't know, basically, I will give a cryptic clue and you have to then work out what I'm saying. So, the the the obvious one is that bloke stole my jeans and that's and then I'll give the initials of GS and that's obviously Gawk Psycho. No, Genesteeler or Hive Tyrant would be like there's a I can't remember the Hive Tyrant one. Whatever it was, it was good. So that's Gropbusters the first clue and and we are just to say record number of entries this week. Three people have submitted their things.

>> It's fucking unbelievable. Um and I believe Martin, you're winning by one point so far, >> if you say so. I Last week >> was terrible. Last week was terrible. >> That's fine. Not not just your effort, but like me and our now we're both not form. >> I think my effort was I mean the consist the level's pretty consistent. So it >> was pretty good. It's not bad. It's not bad. It is it's the contestants were bad last time. >> Oh yes, they were. They were. >> I'm not even sure that our now's brother was involved which is a bad he was he came after he actually emailed me after the show and and he swore down that he hasn't seen the show and I was like that's bullshit Mark. Get out of it.

just you're as bad as >> when when when he emailed you. We we didn't upload the episode yet. >> I hadn't thought of that >> because he asked me and I told him, "Yeah, we just recorded but it's not up yet." So, you can message Amy. >> Fair play to Mark. Um, so we've had Mark, Paul, and Excavator have all entered. Um, and Paul has I did not realize Paul has entered more than one. So, GK, that's golf kilo. Okay. for the initials. >> I went to Bengalertie super late after the tournament and it was bloody great.

>> Okay, >> this one this one's easy. >> I think it's >> I think I have them all three this this edition but two >> Okay, go on then. Three, two, one. >> Gray nights. >> Good night. >> Yeah, it's a great night. >> Great night. Good n. Okay. Nah, you better not go that way. >> Yeah. Do you >> I mean I know >> I think it's Nurgle.

>> Ngo. N go that way. Fucking hell. Martin, you got to get that mate. >> Okay. So that's it. Neck and neck. Now Albert, you didn't want to you didn't want to get involved, did you? >> Yeah. No clue, man. >> Yeah. Yeah. Fine. >> But now has caught up basically with >> Yeah. This is it. This is the deciding point even though we got the rest of the world. Um, MG. Where's the snowman? >> That would work. Think about it, Albert. Right. MG. It's a It's a It's something from the 40k universe, this one. It's a bit of a hint. Okay. >> Where's the snowman gone?

>> MG. >> This one took took me a while to >> Oh, really? >> MG. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> MG, >> but I think it's it's more it's more clever. It's clever than than the previous one. >> Wait, hold on. Hold on. I don't know. Would I know it? Is this not that I would do it >> everything is quite >> I thought I was I was trying to think about a unit and then I and then >> MG not sh >> Yeah. Um Mike golf. >> Uh I don't know mate >> on the spot. M what you saying? You got it?

>> I'd say so. >> Okay. >> I I think I do. Yeah. Melt a gun. >> Yeah. Melter gone because of snowman. Where's the snowman gone? Melter gone. Melter gun. Melter gun. >> What the fuck is a melter gun? >> Okay. So, so not obvious to Albert. >> No. >> I think you've got an illustration by Mark Gibbons with the space warp and I think he's got a Oh, no. It's a bolter. Fine. There you go, boys. >> Boulder. I know what it is, but the melting I >> You missed the bolter. I can't remember what the bolter tip was, but that was a good tip. >> Right. So, that was the best ever. Well, downhill from here. What can you do?

Right. So, next We we are. Yeah. Neck and neck. This is exciting. >> Extremely exciting. So, next week we're going to duke it out with the Golden Demon special. >> What I've seen >> I should write those for for you Jamie. And then but then now is at a disadvantage against Martin. >> Yeah, that's true. But that's his own fault mate. Um so >> true enough. >> Maybe I don't know anything. Did you do you have the answers please darling? Now that's of course the jingle for Q&A. It's diverged a bit. It used to be are now answered because we used to like suck in for not energy of knowledge.

Q&A. This is quick. We don't have to spend long on these ones, right? Unless we do dive in. But yes. Do you guys use mediums for glazing or just water? Each >> next one. >> Just water the dirt. >> Water is possible but only water. So you you both only use water? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So we might potentially spend No, we don't have to spend any time whatsoever on it. I do use mediums. >> Oh shit. Now that's a bombshell. >> I just Yeah, I do. Yeah.

>> Okay. We'll do dive into that next week. So here's one. What would you consider the best way to improve your painting? Books, magazines, videos, patrons, workshops, private lessons. I have tons of books and videos, but I never seem to learn off them. >> This podcast by far. >> Smart. Smart. >> Uh, the patron on this podcast when it goes out, >> I think. Yeah, >> I think he forgot to say painting. >> I say it. He's asking for is this is a cry for help. This is like, do you know what I mean? So, >> it was a long It was a long list of things and we've touched on it se several times. Not that not that we can't say it again, but like practice.

Um, if you really Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead. >> If if they're asking for for sources, >> Yeah. >> I I do think that a private lesson is the best by by a mile. >> Mhm. >> Out of all of those things, I have to agree definitely if it's if it's down to like should I buy another big book, should I watch more YouTube videos or get like a private lesson? Yeah, for sure. Get a private lesson. >> Anything personalized is going to be that, isn't it? Ju just one hour or two hours will give you more than Yeah. any >> Yeah. Yeah. So you can ask all your questions. You can have things explained and shown to you. That's definitely what you want.

>> Right. Now we're into the Albert specific ones. Obviously knowing that we had him on a guest. Um I would like to know what motivates you to paint. They don't have to be long. Albert consider these short snappy answers. Of >> course I I like painting. You know that's that's that's the end of it. I enjoy the process of painting and it lets me develop my you know creativity. So well not develop it but put it into practice I guess. >> And after you like he said and what is next after winning basically everything the question.

>> Well I mean I haven't won everything to begin with but again it's related to the previous answer right it's about like I don't paint to win awards. I don't paint I mean I do paint and I enter competitions but that's not the final purpose of me painting. I paint because I love painting right? It does it does kind of sound like both of those questions assume that you're painting to win awards because the first question is like motivated by prizes and exactly >> right because during co there were no shows at all for like four years and I was still painting >> quite a lot in fact so it's not not the case.

>> Um X for asked um how you interpret volumes and how he determines what he wants to do when he paints one of his pieces. I feel like that is an open-ended question that could uh go into a lot more, but >> I think most important is before you start painting, selecting where the light sources are in your project. Even if it's like a generic light source and you don't have like crazy, you know, OSL effects or whatever, like kind of deciding where is your main, you know, the main angle from where light is falling on your project so that you can be consistent throughout. Otherwise, you're bound to to fall into inconsistencies in how you interpret these volumes. I think >> I don't know. are now any anything to add here or or >> yeah yeah I agree a million% like there's no project without a very clear >> because a lot of people start start painting without doing proper analytical work of that project before laying any paint on the project and whenever I do private um coachings uh it's it's what I always tell them like you need to look for references and you need to you need

to you know select your golden views of your project and select where your light sources are and do prior, you know, an analytical work before you start painting. >> The best example actually for this is is no metallic because if you don't have a source of light, you you cannot reflect it. So, it's almost impossible to do a good nonmetallic without a clear source of light. >> That's I mean, we find it so very often, right? Like projects with nonmetallics that completely like plain structure and and light source structure, right? They just paint like bright spots and dark spots, but they they they don't make sense at all.

>> I know the feeling >> my own stuff. >> I don't know if this is a joke or not. I don't really get it. But what's his favorite jabon? What's a jabon? A jabon. >> My h favorite of course Spanish. >> Yeah, we have we have this joke that when when you went to um >> No. No, but um yeah, bribe bribe. When you want to bribe someone in Spain, you give them a ham because it's very expensive.

>> What the fuck? That's so cultural and weird. Um >> good to keep good to good to keep that in mind actually. >> Just have a ham. Um Ross has asked, "What's his approach for planning composition?" There's two more after this. uh my approach for pol composition is uh dry fitting things because miniatures are not 2D art right it's they're th three dimensional things so I like to see if if compositions work by physically building those volumes even if it's just like a you know blob of blue tag or whatever or you know but yeah it's like doing mockups doing prototypes of of of the final piece with you know by light fitting or you know or >> yeah with bootag or whatever.

>> How much has basically >> Yeah. I I didn't know Spain people liked Ham. I find that weird. The last one. If you were running Golden Demon, what would you change? >> The judging panel. >> Yeah. Like because you don't like them as individuals or No, I guess. >> No, no, no. I mean, I I do like that they have a guest judge, even though I would I mean, I love Roman, but I think that they should somehow uh make it uh basically I would have the Slayer Store winner be a guest judge for the following year because then that's objective as to why that person is the guest judge, right? Um because >> and it gives different perspectives as well.

>> Yeah, >> exactly. Because after I mean Roman has done a wonderful job but after Roman who will they put there as in charge as guest judge and why should it be that new person right and not some other person whereas if you set it as a rule like if you win the sword the next year you judge then that's kind of an objective standard as to why that person >> that point as well right >> and and yeah I mean that that used to be to be done in the past in fact so if only to again to standardize the reasons you know the the and to make them an an objective thing and not a subjective as to why that guest judge is is the person in charge. But the guest judge is not even what I meant here. Uh basically it's I would like the heavy metal to be back in charge, not some random guys from the marketing department or >> or whatever, which as is the case now.

>> Yeah, I actually completely forgot about that when when we were talking about Golden Demon and we could have had a good old bitch about it, but that ship has sailed. Um, I I did forget about the controversy surrounding said judge panel. Well, lads, 1 hour 25 49 seconds. It's been a pleasure. It's It's been um we enjoyed I enjoyed the intros. It's sometimes nice to just get to a good, you know, to do four of them in a row that are dog shit and to come back, >> you know, and get that out of your system.

>> Um, >> much like Golden Demon entries. >> Oh, sorry. I said much like Golden Demon entries. >> Very true. >> I was going to say it's good that you didn't have to quit me podcast, Jamie. >> Yes. Because of the blood poisoning of of uh of your >> Does that mean everything is everyone's alive down? >> I don't know. I mean, they're not talking on WhatsApp >> or everyone's asleep. >> Yeah. Or both. >> Either or. >> Or both. Make the case. But it's your daughter.

Um, well, I am looking forward to it, boys. Uh, we should rent a car. Have we done that or was that >> We have rented a car. We have rented the van this time. >> With a van. >> That's done. >> And you have a place to stay and everything. >> Yeah. >> Are you asking me if I'm coming? >> We uh Good. So, what's >> That's what they call thinking out loud. >> Um, no. I'm I'm glad we're all together and we're best friends. >> Yeah. Six. Best friends ever. The power of friendship.

>> I'm I'm very interested to see how sad Mark is in general, >> right? >> Well, Mark will join us one day after, right? So, we get there on Thursday and he'll arrive on on Friday, >> but he also leaves one day before, right? So, he'll be there two days shorter than we will. >> That's good. It means I cannot infect him with happiness. I'm sure he's not as sad as when I last met him, though, in fairness. Um, >> he was in a bad place back then. He he was I've known him a while. Right, boys. Thank you very much. Enjoy your evenings. Listeners, do some education or something. Just perk yourselves up.

Just Just stop listening to this. Um >> I'm a bit worried. I'm a bit worried that someone will not understand your banter with them. >> Well, they'll know if they're stupid already, right? And if they're smart, they'll know that me saying it means they're not any more stupid. And if they are stupid, they'll take it to heart and then they actually are stupid. They're all in the Discord anyway. They can just write to us and double check if we've witness if we've insulted anyone specifically. >> I don't feel like they deserve it. >> Spotify. >> They can insult us back. I mean, it's fine.

>> Oh, even better. Insult perfection though, can you? That's the problem with me, >> right boys? Thank you very much. Thank you, Albert. Thank you. >> Yep. See you all at Golden Neon in a couple of weeks. Yep. See you guys. Good night. >> Thank you. night.