How to get to boxart level painting (kind of)

>> Is that automated? >> Yeah, just >> they just added that. >> Yeah, very annoying. >> Although, fair play for trying stuff out. You know, sometimes things don't work and you just got to go with it. So, we do have a very good episode planned indeed. I have to bring up I've started taking notes in Gmail now so I can have that up so I don't have to jump around. >> Remind yourself what what what we're doing for the >> episode in the episode. Yeah. Oh yeah. Optional things. I just copy pasted that so I can remember. Right. We have one of the best episodes of all time planned. Definitely not. It's it's not it's it's Anyway, scraping the barrel. We've got Q&A. Q&A for people who don't know is when people send in questions and we answer them.

>> That's the Q and then we Yeah, >> you give the A. Um, >> good old A. >> Yeah, the old >> I've flipped that already. It feels like I flipped that Q& A. Well, you don't know what the questions are, right? Then we've obviously gott a a staple now. I think I think there was a hole in the in the episode. Was it golden demon? We didn't do one the episode Golden Demon. >> Yeah. Not too long for Golden Demon. We were too busy with Golden Demon. >> But what I realized is >> for Gropbusters, so anyone who doesn't know Grotbusters, I'll give another recap later, but Grockbusters is is when I give you a cryptic clue and you've got to guess what it is. And it's 40k related cuz I don't know anything else.

Um, and it's like um I fucking can't remember what it was. A hive tyrant. Oh, that's the answer. Shit. It's there's a bee and he's a tyrant. >> The first one. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. >> Fuck it. the the big bad boss of the hive >> of the hive. Yes, that's a good one. That was good. That could have been a real one, actually. >> Um >> I'm thinking of doing a music one as like as a little like like a special like I'll do like >> um >> the clues are music or the answers are music.

>> Answers are bands. >> Ah, okay. >> Like you could do Smack My B as a song. I know it's not not a band. And it would be like um I'm hitting a dog cuz bitches are dogs, >> female dogs. >> And then so the answer to I'm hitting a dog is prodigy. >> Correct. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. >> Right. Um but I won't do that. But I just thought it could be a nice break. I could do like a little one for a little cuz then everybody can get involved whereas only people who know 40k can get involved here which is a bit selfish when >> everyone loves a quiz. >> Yeah. But not when they don't when when they know they won't know the answers.

>> It's less exciting. M. Um, but yes, we have Gro buses. Of course, we have the answers things. We've obviously got slow as a race car from last week's Fast as a race car. >> Slow. >> Yeah, >> indeed. Slow as a snail. So, we've >> we've got Slow as a snail. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Then we do Fast as a race car. Anyway, look, fucking hell, boys. We've got an episode planned. All right. And then we've got optional things. Things I hate, Rebel Moon, Elder Project. I really do want to get back to anime. I got to be honest.

I do. I miss it. I've actually got a lot to say on it. Like a lot to say on it. We >> We should do an anime special so people can jump skip it if if they want to, but you know, >> but like release it on a Saturday like we do our normal >> release a normal week and then if they don't want to listen then they don't. >> It's very ambitious of you Jamie to suggest that we do like the regular episodes and then another episode on top of that. >> Yeah. When you've got one job, like anything's possible, man. Do you know what I mean? You can do you can do whatever you want with one job.

>> It's incredible. >> And then we obviously got >> Do you know what? The GD update is going to go away. I just realized we're going to lose a like a big part of content that we really quite quite need. >> Well, we could have done a a Monty update, but Arnell is not going. >> Well, I have a few things that they want to do. And I've been having some ideas about Taskmasters and Taskmasters Plus. So, Yeah, we will see. I I had a crazy idea that I'm really on board with, but probably you won't. But >> we'll see. We will see. >> I'll be honest. My 40k gaming is is dwindling >> and my so >> my I'm just not I haven't played in like a month a single game. Um >> and I looked at a model I had sculpted and I was like, shit, if only I knew how to paint that model.

And I was like, "Fuck." I got slightly uh you know the arousal, but it's about excitement. It's not sexual. You know what I mean? >> Excited. >> But it's more than excited is like, "Oh, do you want to go cinema? Yeah, fuck. I want to see that film." This is like >> something deep. >> It's more than that. >> It's more than that. Yeah. >> It's it's >> when it becomes part of you. Like in my mind, sex is like something that's just so deeply ingrained in you that it's it is you. It's part of you, right? It's it's >> you can't >> whereas excitement can come and go. I'm excited for this. I'm excited for that.

But arousal is like it's fucking deep. It's like but I don't want it to be sexual. This thing the feeling that I have with 40k. >> But if your feeling is still that strong for painting this eldar, then I can't see why you haven't started already. >> Well, the issue is Okay, boys. I had that feeling and I was like, shit, that's exciting. >> And then I I I went back a little bit to my old self. I literally saw myself painting it and failing. Um, and I was like, "No, Jay, remember what the what the guy said, just do it for fun." And I was like, I was like, "Shit, I don't know, man. This is my in my my inner demon was was basically rearing its head." Um, is the honest answer. But, um, I I I saw the model and I was I was excited to paint it. It's deeper than that, but yeah. I mean, there's there's two options here. You either you either lean into that excitement, which is what you should do, >> and just paint that thing, or you very strategically give yourself a practice

piece, anything else, just like anything, so that you can get into painting. >> I I've got like conscious kind of that model. >> Yeah. >> In fairness, >> and and just tell yourself that I I mean, either of them don't they don't have to be the best thing you've done, but especially if you do like a practice one, you can just >> Yeah. fuck up on that and then save the nice thing. >> There's another petty move that there's anyone I probably not but there's anyone who you really dislike that is a painter. >> I mean I'm there's people I dislike but there's no one I hate. Like I wouldn't kill anyone if you get what I mean.

>> Yeah. It's not it's not hate. It's not hate what I'm looking for. It's this it's disliking. It's Yeah. like people you dislike, >> you know, >> there's not many. There's literally like two people I'm like, >> why are you asking? >> Yeah, good point. >> Because because then it's like if you if you have someone like that and they are painting and you are not, it's like you're beneath them. You don't even you you don't even do what they do. >> You mean they're better than me? >> You're right. That's petty. >> Basically, that's very petty, but it may work.

>> People are now mind packing. >> I don't think I'm motivated by that. I don't think that would work for me. >> I think I think I'm much more motivated by wanting to see my own dreams come true. You know, >> it's you're such a positive person, Jamie. It's incredibly confusing and inspiring. >> Yeah. There's like life is just it's I know we've been here before, but life is is amazing, I think. And there's no like there's nothing that's like it's just it's just fucking good, you know? Like there's there's so much shit that happens in it. And it's like I'm glad that I'm able to feel that way. Sometimes I get I I get I'm I'm happy for too long and I miss being sad.

I'm like do you know what I like I kind of want to feel down for a little bit because I felt it's >> Do you know how you know how some diseases have uh names of people who discovered that disease? I think we will find something that instead of depression will be the opposite and it will be called the the hot disease syndrome or something. >> Hot syndrome. >> I was watching One Punch Man. I don't I don't want to go into anime. I really fucking do. But the the first season is is I still think it's one of the best animes of a of a long time. And the One Punch Man.

>> Oh, One Punch Man. Yeah. So that the main protagonist is relatable maybe is he he's his his his dream was to be a hero that could punch anything in one punch, right? That was his dream um when he was a kid. And in the first episode they go through and he's he's explaining how because he he can kill anybody in one punch, One Punch Man, right? His his his whole life has actually become more the same. He doesn't have excitement. He doesn't have fear. He doesn't have cuz there's no fear anymore. And there's no goal, right?

>> Um >> challenge. Yeah. >> Yeah. And and okay, the link is loose, but the that's kind of like if you're if you're too something for too long, that something becomes boring. >> Like for example, okay, >> you you think of the the the person you you fancy the most, some famous person or or someone you walk past to the street and you go, "Fuck, they're hot." >> Somebody is bored of being with that person, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Of course. I mean it makes sense but uh I don't know if you can I mean I think it's a it's contradictory being happy and being tired of being happy because then you are not being happy. So actually what you're feeling is the happiness fading if you know what I mean.

>> No I'm I'm so happy I want to feel something else. I want I want >> then you are not happy. I know saying if you're missing something. >> No, I get I get I get it's oxymoral or whatever it is. Yeah, >> it's it's an oxymoron. Absolutely. >> Happiness and and discomfort are >> opposites. I guess >> I do get the concept. It's it's rather okay, how to say it in another way? I don't think you can. I think that I think that this is this is an episode.

We can do this at the end and we can dive into the uh because it's a good philosophical question. >> Yeah, it is. >> Yeah, it is. And marginally enjoyable. So, we do have Q&A. Golden Demon though, boys. It is tomorrow. Um so, we do have to do our GD update of course weekly which we won't do next week. I still think I now you should come to Monty, but whatever. >> Sorry. >> Yeah. Sorry. I think I will try definitely I will try to go. >> It won't happen. It's like it's like, "Yeah, go on." Mine >> try is such a bullshit word in that context. Like you just buy a ticket and you buy and you live in the house that we're going to rent. Done.

>> You just literally go and then be like, "Oh, it's shit. I wish >> bullshit. >> You should You should come this year. I think we've got a an extra room, extra bed. >> I think about it. We're going to we're going to keep So GD update is going to change to hobby update slash >> true. >> Why haven't Jamie painted anything? >> Taskmasters update. So So I don't know if you remember Martin, but anybody who doesn't know Taskmasters is basically we set ourselves a goal at the beginning of the month and then we have a month to do it, right? So we already know our next task masters. It's the uh killer. So we're each doing a killer. We'll buy the kit in in wherever that fucking place is, Essent. And then and then we've got a month. So, so the month of November will be the killer, right? And there's no rules. You just paint a killer or convert a kilan or whatever, right? And and we will invite listeners to do it as well. It's a bit bit expensive in fairness on the Killer Cam vibe, but um we've all got money if we're into the

hobby. Not true, but yeah. Um so yes, GD update >> or no, you were done a week ago. Did you do the second is what I'm asking right now. >> No, no. I I don't I don't have it. I I couldn't I couldn't get it. >> I'm so disappointed in our six listeners for not helping out with this model. >> Yeah. >> Well, in come up to me in SN and be like, "Hey, I've heard your podcast." The second thing you should say to me is why you haven't bought that model and sent it to our now. the it in fairness of the of the listeners, the episode was released like two days ago or something.

>> All right. Are now like technicalities, mate. It was it was released late though. We had a a PC change, didn't we? I can't believe we're back to be honest. >> Listen to excuses now. >> Go out and buy paint his entry because he didn't get the model because no one wanted to help him out. >> He just sat there not painting for five days. What did you actually do these last few days or now? >> Well, like in No, in Monday I was uh I was coming I was I was driving for 6 hours but uh yesterday I was literally doing nothing.

>> Nice. >> That's not helping yourself. But yeah, fair enough. Well, you would you would have >> a day and a half painting a project. It's quite short. Um I I I'm Before you go m I am tempted to bring like a small model to Golden Demon, but I don't think it's worth the 20 >> bringing uh like in the competition. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Have you painted a model? >> Well, in my life. Yeah. I mean, I've got a model, right?

>> But something new, I mean. Or or is it one of the the previous ones? >> Elder project. Yeah. Just a >> It's a third edition Elder stuff. >> Yeah. >> Just bring um >> Yeah. Or a squad. Just bring the nicest >> You you have an extra ticket. >> Did I pay? Yeah. >> Yes. I I asked you if you wanted the Golden Demon ticket and you told me I don't know. Well, yeah. Get it to me just in case. >> So, I have a ticket. How much is it? >> You do have a >> You already paid to enter Golden Demon. >> Yeah.

>> Is it like 20? It only told me it's 20 quid. >> 10's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Fine. Fine. Fine. They're not making they're basically covering the rental for their the thing, which is weird that they care about the three grand that it probably cost them to put those cabinets up. But yes, um Martin >> Mhm. I mean, I'm done uh just about it's we're leaving uh tomorrow morning and I've got to glue uh one more model to the base and then >> look at everything desparingly and potentially have like a paintbrush in my hand and carefully touch it to certain parts of my entry. I don't think I don't think I'm going to do anything more with it. But it is it is literally the last day. Uh the last week's been kind of easygoing. Not quite as as intense as the previous seven weeks, >> but I'm done.

>> Feels nice. It's gonna be weird. I have more feeling than anything else to be honest. >> It's a good feeling or a bad feeling. >> No, I said an empty just there's no >> hollow. Yeah, that's how I want to feel sometimes. >> Bringing it back, baby. >> But you're so overjoyed about everything. Yeah. So, so the the the hype for the GD is >> all time low, >> like underground, >> all time low. The people don't care. I think what we've discovered is >> we we love the competition. We don't love the new location >> and we like Monty more.

>> Yeah. I mean, >> because of the the the socializing aspect, >> the food and the church, >> the food and the environment. Monte Sansino is a beautiful place and Essen might be. >> No, it's not. It's fucking disgusting. It's like an adult town. Um, it's not cool. It's um I >> I don't go to Monty for the decorum. Like if you put the same food restaurants and the same uh seats. So in Monty for anyone who doesn't know, as you say, it's an old Italian village.

There's the best ice cream in the world. There's the best lasagna in the world, which I don't want to tell other people because then there's a finite amount in this restaurant. I get Well, it's not even a restaurant, but it's somewhere in the in the somewhere in that area. Yeah. >> And then there's a square which has seats and then there's the place where you can go look at models and there's there's no cabinets. It's blah blah blah. But but point being, the models aren't the center of attention. It's much more a social thing with nice food, with ice cream, and a 24-hour bar that you can get wine and beer. So if you like those things, Monty's fantastic. It's it's close-knit. So you basically talk to everyone >> like more or less you can >> Yeah, it's very easy to talk to everyone as well. I mean I I think talking to people at Essen was fine, but it's the volume in that. Yeah, it's loud.

Surprisingly loud for just being people talking. >> U but it's a bit like being in a festival and trying to hang out. >> And it's also like being in a festival in the sense that the food is like expensive and And it just like curry worst and there's no food stand in line. Yeah, it's pretty pretty shit. And there's nowhere to sit >> except on the floor. >> Are you Is there something that you're looking for looking forward to instead of just focusing on >> seeing you I'm looking forward to you to seeing you guys in person. Um and also other people besides you too. There are many But that's not dependent on the location, the event though. That's dependent.

>> It's not. It's not. That's not specifically. But that's what's I mean, Essen is where we're going. I can't really change that. If it were up to me, we would not be going Essen, but that's what it is. I'm I'm also really looking forward to seeing some GD entries, a lot of them. Um already frustrated that they're behind uh cabinets and under bad lighting, but again, that's just that's just what it is. And um I think I'm gonna get very tired of the whole thing very quickly and wander off >> just like a festival >> possibly by myself to find like a cafe. >> So we used to >> Yeah, that's I I was waiting for my finished >> to say and then I thanks. Um, I want to do what we did last year, which was just leave and go and find food at lunchtime. I don't want to have lunch there basically ever.

>> No, I think I think Yeah, that's not happening. >> Um, because for the same price, we can go to that pizza place. They opened earlier for us last time, but probably do it again and then we can book for the evening. And and yes, that was all I wanted to say on which was what I think you were going to say, but with >> Yeah, I was going to say that exactly. And then also I'm looking forward to playing board games and do other kinds of stuff. Actually what I'm looking forward to is unrelated to Essen basically. So everything that is around um the trip like going to the to the restaurant, having food, doing board games at the Airbnb, talking a bit of Warhammer, and getting the hypes up a little bit even if it's possible.

Uh, but I tend to I tend to get very excited about the hobby when I'm there. Uh, which is why I really prefer when it was in Warhammer World because that fits my excitement for >> sure. people and uh and even just like the trip there like me and Stan are probably just going to talk about painters we don't like for hours and hours and hours and it's nice to just really u condense that whole experience and just do nothing but hobby for a few days as opposed to what are our now and I are doing which is hobby nearly all of the time anyway.

>> Yeah, but it's another kind of of sharing the hobby, right? It's >> Yeah, that's true. at at least well for me even more because I don't paint Warhammer as much as I as I would like and and GD is always um a Warhammer focused trip where everyone talks about Warhammer and and it gets my my hypes up for for the few next months >> until you go home. Well, that's what Taskmasters will help with because that's a golden GW entry. You could also just do your GW your GD GD entry for next year with Taskmasters in a month because you could literally paint that for a vehicle.

>> Well, my my task masters that I was telling you about that you probably will not want to do is is something related to that. But yeah, we will seement. Very smart. Well, um, ironically, I might have changed my opinion a bit that I actually think Monty is so much better suited for you are now than than, uh, Golden Demon. Like, in a big way as well. It's much more um because all that will happen is I'll want to go and get ice cream. I'll want to look at the models for like an hour, maybe two, when it's when it's not busy, right?

>> Okay. And then that's all all I want to do then is relax and eat. Aka board games, Airbnb, chilling. It's much less than talking about the hobby non-stop, which is fun when you've got the right people. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Don't get me wrong, but >> but can can we do I know that I mean we we can do the same in in essence obviously without the good food. Just >> averageely okay food. I understand but you're onlywhere else. >> So you're trying to keep positive. I Yeah, I can I I hear >> No, no. I What I Yeah, obviously what I want is to not dread the the fact that we are leaving tomorrow.

>> Yeah, I can't believe we're leaving tomorrow. >> I think potentially the food in Essen is really good. We just haven't found all the places. You've mentioned one pizza place and you >> No, the food is okay. Just leave the fucking leave the thing. Go to the high street and it's not that bad. >> There's going to be there's going to be some good good food. So, there we go. Golden Demon updates. Uh, we went a bit tangenty. I'm okay with it. I'll work out what model to bring and I will do that. Um, uh, yeah. Right. So, we've got Gropbusters, we've got Slow as a snail, we've got Let's do Let's do one Q&A and jump between them. Yeah.

>> So, we've got Miss Your Bow. Oh, wait. Hold on. Hold on. What the fuck is this called? What's this segment called? Q&A. I never did an audio for that, did I? >> You didn't? >> Uh, no. I didn't I don't think so. >> There's never an official. It's too difficult. We got white man. >> But um Right. >> B. Do you use different brushes for different parts of the model? >> Any >> We answered that. >> Did we answer that last time? I think we did. >> Yeah. Yeah. All right. >> Was quite a short answer, but yeah, we did.

>> Maybe we were doing it quick. Do you want to elaborate? >> I mean, we set up. >> Okay. Harsh, Andy. Finished the Rebel Moon director's cut. I mean, I don't think we're going to go to Rebel Moon now, but I would like to finished the Rebel Moon director's cut to know what you guys would be talking about. Much better the first time. I actually finished them. This is just a conversation, Andy. Um, >> must have not been in the mood. Yeah, must have been in the mood for them the first time. So, any films you guys have flipped your opinions on for whatever reason?

>> Oh, fuck. H well I have one actually. Well >> Lord of the Rings two >> no Lord of the Rings is nowhere near there. I I when I saw you know Tron the second one when they they reboot on legacy. >> Yeah. I loved it when I saw it in the cinema and then when I I was so excited and I told yeah this movie I loved it and let's watch it again. and she watched it for the first time and we both hated it so much and she she keeps remembering it now every time like it's like ingrained in her in her brain.

>> You think it was bad at all? Uh >> yeah, the first time I loved it and the second one I hated it too. >> So you watched it with someone who wasn't reciprocating likewise vibes. >> No, but I was I was definitely not enjoying it myself, you know. Oh y >> I also hated it when I saw it the first time. So >> I think cuz I listened to the leg I listened to the album before I saw the film in quite a big way. >> So I knew the album really well and then I saw the film and I was like shit this film's good cuz all these bits are >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Makes sense. >> I don't remember the film. I'm just looking at the print screens. I did not even know those two characters were in the film. Anyway, >> those two characters. >> The two actors. Like I didn't, you know, normally if you're like, if you think about a shit film and you're like, "Okay, yeah, Ian Holmes, >> uh, Ian Mckllen, um, like you know, you remember the the the shit actors in it. Elijah Wood." Yeah. Yeah. Um, >> good. >> You are trouble person. >> I maintain. And do you know what? My conviction gets stronger for The Lord of the Rings being bad. The the more I I explore it and think about it in my head, like they're not even good films.

You're alone in this, you know. Really alone in this. No, someone told me Christopher his son doesn't like them either. So that really made me feel quite good. >> Doesn't like anything. >> It's not a personal dig at him, but I don't think he's happy with a lot of Tolken stuff. >> Yeah, cuz it was probably just bastardized the content and material and changed completely what it meant to everyone. I love listening to you and all the different opinions on what's fun to paint. Personally, this is Paul by the way. Personally, I love zoning out with a batch of This is mental, Paul. With a batch of 10 plus models, all identical, and do the swords, swords, swords, then do the boots, boots, boots, then do the shirts, shirts, shirts. The hit of dopamine at the end is found nowhere else in life.

I've elaborated a little bit, but what's your >> again not a question? Okay. Sorry. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All three. Favorite moment of mini painting. Starting a fresh, finishing a display piece, finishing a commission, finishing a unit, finishing an army, finishing your mum. What is it? Um, I think well, we touched a little bit on the feeling and are now kind of put it well last week with feeling uh the feel the feeling of finishing a GD entry. And it's not my favorite feeling. I don't think finishing something at all is necessarily the best part of the project. I I don't love >> where I am right now. And I think there's not I could really like nitpick which parts of my I don't like >> with the GD entry.

>> Yeah. With with the GD entry and with where I like I'm I'm almost done with it now. Really just about done. and that it's not a great feeling, but it was better like twothirds of the way through. And our now mentioned something like it's almost like the idea of how good it could be is still uh like alive. >> And uh there's uh there's this I was thinking about this earlier. It's almost like the idea of how good something could potentially be is always going to be better than what it actually ends up being. Not because you're never ever ever satisfied, but just because that complete imagination hypothesis like what what could this possibly become is probably even outside of how good I am or what I can do. So, it's like I don't know. It it sounds like it's always destined to be a disappointment.

It's not that. It's just that like I get I get quite excited partway through a project when I think it's going well, then I'm like, fuck, this is great. And it almost never feels that way when it's completely done because then it it is what it is. It'll never be anything more than that. Um, and yeah, I guess I mean the closest I can relate to finishing like army stuff, I recently finished some models that are for gaming. I don't know if I'm going to game with them and they took way too long to finish. So that was also just a feeling of like gh fuck off. So yeah, >> I I mean I I do like the the the feeling of finishing an an unit in my my army. I saw a tabletop unit because it's different from from the high level painting. It's not like you have expectations. It's just I just want to see this cool minis in my cabinet and that's it. So that's a good feeling. I agree 100 million% that the finishing the piece is not the best at all for me.

me, I think it's the start is when you start sketching and you start building the the the piece, right? The colors and stuff, so you see all the potential and how it's going and everything is bright and colorful and then yeah, you have more of a grinding phase, which sometimes it's fine, >> but Paul does the grinding phase from the very start. like he he >> well if it's an army it's always a grinding face.

>> Yeah. >> Right. But when when I do when I do army painting I I do one model by one. So I finish one model and then I go to the next model. So I don't like to do uh batches of >> really. >> Yeah. Damn. >> I guess painting even on golden demon entries. Sorry. I'll do batch painting even on golden demon entries. I mean, if it it's just for consistency and efficiency. >> I don't I I hate batch painting. >> I >> I mean, to be fair, you're very quick, so I guess you're still finishing one of your Blood Angels in like a day, right?

>> Oh, well, way less. >> Oh, okay. The um it's like Yeah, I I I I did those dire Avengers and I tried to do them like at a le a nice level. Um, and it was just fuck Oh, no, it was 10. And after that, I swore to never do 10 models again. I was like, "Fuck me. No way." Like, and they weren't even done like Well, >> if that makes >> But when you finish it, is it it's a better feeling, though?

>> No, I actually felt desolate and depressed. >> Okay. >> I felt like I wish I wish I hadn't done that to myself. >> Uh, >> okay. the the feeling I get when I do my relationship with painting is weird. My memories have gone skewed. I think um like when I painted a Warlock or an Elder model, I feel quite glad about finishing it and a Faria I quite enjoy the process of a of a third edition Farcia, but the third edition like squads which are repetitive and I'm Yeah. when I'm trying to when I'm trying to recreate directly something, it's horrible >> because you lose all artistic license and you're just trying to recreate. And it don't get me wrong, we've been through this. When I walk past that cabinet, I get feelings of stuff that I don't get with other stuff. It's the only thing that makes me feel that good.

So, >> so it's it's it's it's almost like you're putting in a little bit of work now and it feels like a lot of work for to to reap the benefits later. >> So, it's quite hard to abstract that. um like that that thing. And when I go on my blog and I look through the photos of like the work in progress and stuff, I still get quite excited. I can't use the arousal word anymore, but yeah. Um there you go. >> I think that makes sense. But yeah, I'm wonder I wonder if going off of his question, what I actually get like that good feeling of fresh things.

>> Yeah, it sounds like probably more like at the start of a project to be honest. >> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. >> Cuz there's the possibilities are are quite open at that point, aren't they? You're discovering and you're >> well, you are creating, right? Something new, something uh something really literally new and and when you are halfway done, >> you you have already been working with this something that so it's not new. >> It's literally the same as sex versus kids. >> Like you're you're the creating part is great. Everyone enjoys that. Then the long >> the long part. Fucking hell. Like that is a slog. You love it, don't get me wrong. You're still doing it, but you are a little bit like I'd rather be at the start of a project right now.

>> Yeah. >> So >> all day every day. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Until you need a break. >> So yes, I um I'm glad that we worked that out. I mean, we could that that question could almost be a meat of it if I'm honest. Well, we all the questions are meats of it. We're doing tiny little >> basically I'm saying I think that that I'm I'm basically saying I'm going to probably copy paste that into the meat of it because I think that could be a whole >> Okay, >> fuck you both.

>> We're doing a tapas tapas episode. >> Yes, this is exploring explorerity, right? So, Eka's next question. He's the lad who gives us the meats. Um, here's my question. As someone who started miniature painting a little over a year ago, I want to get to box level God basically. Um, if you had the chance to mentor a brand new miniature painter, aka him, uh, with similar aspirations, why not just say you? Uh, where would you get them start? Where would you get them to start and guide them in the right direction? Would you start with color theory? Would you start with brush control, paint consistency, um, >> bench presses, squats, and deadlifts?

It's just always that trifecta. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, start small. Lightweights. No, I think now should answer this. Far away. >> Uh, it's a it's a very good question. I think it's a bit more complex than it may seem. >> Yes. I mean we are going to do a tapas uh question answer as well >> but I think the only barrier that you may have when you want to become a boxard artist is the professionality because obviously obviously you need to paint somehow good. It's not like you can just pick the brush and then become a box art.

But it's not that like you have to excel at color or or technique or you have to you need a bit of everything. But the main I the main thing I feel like people uh require or lack when when when becoming boxard artist is losing that that fear of sharing your your work because you are exposed a lot when you're a box art. You you have to share your pictures. it it's bigger than you, right? It's not like I paint something and I put it out whenever I want.

Someone is depending on your box art, some a brand or someone that's very excited about their first release or you know, so you are doing some this for someone else and and there's a pressure in there. So you have to be aware that this pressure will be there forever >> and you have to deal with it. >> Does it push you forward? It may push you if you are if you have balls. If you don't, it may crush you. >> I mean, because it the the the pressure it's I mean, it is pressure for a reason, right? So, it it can it can definitely crush you and just stop you from from doing things and showing things.

So yeah, I think this this would be the the the very best uh advice that uh I could give to someone like be be aware that you will have pressure and you have to overcome it. It's it's not it's not about your painting. It's about >> just doing doing the work. So, just to like just to double check here, the was the question specifically about working as a box art painter or like getting to the level?

>> I mean, yeah, this is a good question. >> I guess it could be both. >> I did it. Yeah, there was a there was a question there was something about in the question about like do we do you start with uh color theory or like consistency of paint or all of that stuff. I think the only thing I would say >> yeah exactly where where to literally focus or start or whatever I I would say with things like color theory it's uh there is a danger of doing maybe too much studying and not enough practice which is something >> me and our now said maybe 700 million times in this podcast already is like nothing will ever really trump just painting um it is worth and again this Uh this is a whole big discussion, but it's always it's always worth getting like direction. If you're just painting and you have no idea what you're doing, then yeah, sure. I mean, years and years of that may be like more of a slog than

getting that sort of uh getting that direction. But if you if all you do is like read all these books, look at all these videos, uh try to really get under the skin of like what's um what are these painters, how are they doing what they're doing, but you're not painting yourself, then I mean, I promise you're not going to be able to to do anything with that anyway. >> Yeah, practice is so much more important than theory. Like it's not even it's not even close, not even in the same same league.

>> You you you just have to paint and because it's not about and actually that's that that was my point that it's not about the level being a box art artist. It's not about the level. You don't have to be uh the best in the world to be a box artist. You just have to work and you have to do uh be reliable. Um obviously know some some stuff, but it's not the point. Uh there's there's I started doing box arts when I was not that I mean not that good and there's companies for everyone. There's people with more money, less money.

There's you know there's more material projects less. So there's work for everyone >> if you have the desire and balls. >> Yeah. basically pointed out >> he just wants to be the best painter he can I guess >> then just painting. >> Yeah, just painting studying. >> If you want to if you want to be as good as are now so that you can kill our now and take all of his customers then I mean I understand and support you but that's like >> it's it's a lot of hard work. It's really a lot of hard work >> right boys. Thank you Eska as good good questions as always. keep them coming.

If you could start coming up with some meat bits for us though, cuz we are struggling now at this point. I think we're we're only 10 weeks in, but we don't really know what to do. So, if you could just do that, that would be I'd appreciate that. I would indeed. Right. We now have >> I know. I think >> No, I don't. >> The world exactly, Martin. world famous, the worldrenowned, the critically acclaimed segment, Grotbusters. So for anybody who doesn't know Gropbusters is where I will ask you a question, it's cryptic. I'll give you the initials and a clue. So like the the clue would be for example G and then he's bloody stole my jeans again. And we all know what that is. Of course, Jean Steelers. It does happen to be based in 40k, but we might expand out like maybe.

So lads, score is neck and neck, right, between you two. Uh, it's worth mentioning this. This we do I I'm sticking with my guns, by the way, on that prize that I did on the Instagram. I probably need to push it a bit more and be like at the end of the season we will give a prize to whoever has the most answers or at least maybe the highest consistency with a minimum of five entries or something cuz otherwise you could just enter one and get% >> right. Fine. >> Of course. Of course. >> Um but you two don't get that. You can fuck off. You can I mean I'll give you the model anyway in fairness. >> Nowhere else to be. I mean we're answering whether we like it or not and we don't.

>> Yeah. So last week did you get how many do you think you did? What did you do? >> I know for sure uh the other two man. >> I remember when you when you told the the clues I remember saying yeah I I think I know one. >> Okay. >> Now I forgot. >> Oh uh >> why didn't you write it down? >> So no I didn't. So hopefully I will get it back when you you say it.

>> Right. Well, I thought of the best Grotbusters I think I've ever done. Like genuinely, I I was thinking about a Gropbusters and I came up with an amazing one today >> and okay, >> I spent fucking 10 minutes trying to remember what this was. I I scrolled through all the conversations like where I was when I did it. I tried to listen to the same song while I thought the process. I went to the same way. I was like and I couldn't get it. And the thing is it was it was like it was close. I I could feel it. I could feel it. And then the longer it took, the more it got away. And then I had dementia. So last week's episode, do you remember what it started with? No, because I didn't give you the initials, right? So we we did something very unprecedented.

We didn't give the initials. And I think when I say them, you will think um you will realize why it was so easy. Why? If I gave you the initials, it would fuck it up. >> Sorry. I'm just going to um do you know? >> So yes. What did you think, Martin? Have you got it or no? >> I don't think I do. The the first one is something to do with the So the clue was that steak is divine. >> Oh yeah. >> I thought is it? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Go on. Now go on. Go on. >> What? I thought it might be something to do with corn because of blood and God.

>> Oh, interesting. Now you are on >> you are fuck. Oh, now I don't want to I don't want to give it away. The the clue was uh Oh, this steak is the bind. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. So, is it blood thirst? >> You got to wait for our now. >> Um I I don't know. I have no clue. >> I'm disappointed in you are now. Okay. So, I will give you the initials. B A B A.

But I mean I blood angels but >> is it just blood angels? >> Blood angels >> stakes are bloody >> stake. >> Oh okay. Blood bloody. Okay. Yeah. >> So if I gave you you got blood angels in 20 seconds if less even 5 seconds. So I don't think I could have because there's nothing else right like in the game. >> Right. So nil nil. No no one got that. No one got that, which means I personally think that's the best >> worst thing I've done since the show started. But um I thought the clue was great and then I realized >> the clue was absolutely fine. I I think that was uh that was just we Yeah, we were a bit shit to not get that.

>> I'm I was disappointed in our now, but obviously, you know, you're not looking for it. Next one. D Did I give you the initials? I think I did. Right. For the next one. Yeah. DG. No, no, no, no. Leave the animal body there. It smell is keeping the bears away. >> Death guard. >> Death guard, right? >> How? >> Has to be. >> There's one extra point if you get the uh things right. Remember? >> Well, guarding death guard. It's guarding the what was it? Keeping the smell away from >> Keeping the bears away.

>> Keeping the bears away. >> Yeah. >> Uh death guard. >> It seems like Yeah. I mean, it's it's literally that, right? The death it's guarding something, >> right? Weak. But yes, fine. Last one. And >> was it that >> death guard? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> No. No. I mean the the Yeah. The smell is keeping the death away cuz the bears will kill you. >> Yeah. Yeah. So So yes, >> yeah. Okay. >> Mhm. >> Sure. Uh-huh. Um. All right. N Mrs. said don't touch it says it's part of the ecosystem now.

I I don't have it. >> Necromanc 40k. >> Yeah, it could be necron but >> Nurgle. I >> I I could I couldn't. Sorry. >> Nurgle. Nurgle. >> Don't touch it. We done Nurgle before. >> Yeah. >> When the fuck did we do Nurgle? >> Literally the last one. Yeah, we did. >> All right. Well, fair enough. That's on me then. >> Illegal. That's illegal. >> You can have a point each. That's fine. Um, some people >> It was Nurgal. I was going to I was going to guess either Nurgal or what was the other one? Yeah. Or Nekrons. Okay.

>> Yeah, Nekrons wouldn't have made sense though, would it? >> So, Blood Angel's death card. Nurgle. Good. >> Yeah. My bad. All right. You ready now? I've realized, although I've said it, we've done very few uh we've mostly done factions. We've done a couple like Land Raider, Drop Pod, Bolter. Um but I'm going to I'm going to try and focus not because there aren't that many factions basically. >> There's 28 and we this we're in like week seven probably of this or whatever.

So, think outside the box. Also, I'm I'm think Do you want to do this the music one today or you had enough of Gropbusters? We can do the music one. But is that to do nothing to do with the hobby though? >> No. No. That's not even in the scoring. It's just for top banner. We can even answer now in the show if you want. But yeah, right. Fine. This week's GRBusters. Okay. The initial is F. Foxtrot. Have it your way. Oh, what do they do to their burgers?

But is this Warhammer or music? >> Warhammer. Warhammer. >> Okay. Okay. Okay, >> they're Grotbusters. >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Um, that's F. >> Can you repeat that? >> It says, "Have it your way." What do they do to their burgers? >> Okay. Okay. I can see I'm now writing it down. Uh, >> no. No. Actually, my cat is scratching me, so I'm just trying to be alive. Hold on. If I quickly Okay.

Uh, the last. No, no, the middle one, not two. Da delta >> Arvar. Yeah. >> Alpha. Fuck. >> Alpha. Yeah. >> Yeah. Arvar must be American. Why would that be in my head? That's weird. Anyway, um, so DA, they're flying all over the place, but they keep bumping into each other. >> That's an easy one. >> That's pretty easy. Yeah. >> Fuck you. is this is why I want to I need to move away from the the factions to go too easy. I could I could do another one. I had another one. Um >> No, no, no, no, no.

>> You want the points on the board. >> Um right. K. And it says, "Add some of those little hard things to the soup." >> A yeah. >> Okay. And that's it. >> Yeah. That's good. That's cool. >> It's too easy though. You both look >> it's it's easy but but it's it's okay. I mean it's not like um >> I mean I like the ones that really really you know screw you guys over. Um I think I might have all of these >> shit that's too quick. That is too easy.

Okay. Second tier definitely. But yeah I mean give it a week. I'll I'll have to think about it. >> Sure. >> Yeah. The first one is the one that I'm not confident about. Did you get the last one as well or no? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Fucking I should have I tried to be a bit more like literal in this week's one anyway. Right. Fine. I'm disappointed in myself. No, no, it's fine. Um, okay. So, music. Okay. Music. >> Okay. But what if I don't know the music?

>> Then you're shit you're >> talking about. >> That's it. than mine probably. >> So, do what what um do you want to just do this now or do we want to do it as a real come back in a week, give the people a chance? >> Right. Fine. Give people a chance. >> Give the answers. >> Nah. Yeah. Right. Fine. So, the first one is JT. Okay. At the moment, I'm in a river full of logs. >> But what what is it like? Singers, songs? Uh, it's just artists bands. It's the same like Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Justin Timberlake. >> Well, you're not meant to answer. It's next week. >> But you >> Oh, yeah. I thought Okay. >> Well, no, I think cuz the viewers might the listeners will want to get it as well, right? Give them a chance. >> Okay. So, that's But I I I thought we would do a sample one. So, >> all right. A sample. Okay. So, for example, JT at the moment in the middle of a river full of logs and that would be just in Timber Lake. >> Yeah. Mhm. >> Cuz Timber in the lake, right? And he's just in it. >> Okay. Great. So that's the example. >> Okay.

>> So the So the clue and I think we needed this explanation. So the clue is for the artist themselves, not for a song. >> Correct. Artist or band. Yep. >> So the fact that he has a song called Crimea River was just a coincidence this one time. >> Yeah. Yeah. Actually would have been. It's a layered Yeah. I'm not going to be that good tell you that now. >> Very clever. >> Thank you. W. Okay. Mhm. The lad's got bad asthma. Okay. That's good as Okay.

>> Easy. Yeah. I like that. That's good. >> Okay. I saw a play the other night, but the heating was knackered >> and the initial >> Oh, yeah. C. >> Okay. And then the camera's too hot, by the way. I'm not buying that. Fucking shitty camera. Um, okay. And then WY. >> And these artists, just by the way, are for all time. It's not like current or blah blah blah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> The young man has prepared for his death. >> Okay. >> Right. WY. That's three, isn't it? W CWY. >> Mhm. >> That's it. That's it. Right. I was just trying to work out fucking >> Yeah. Well, it's quite easy to look up artist, I guess. Just go on Spotify. >> Um Well, then you can't just filter by initials, though, can you? Um >> Okay.

Right, boys. So we Yeah, that was great. Thanks. Thank you. Right, here we go. >> Um, >> this is it. >> Boo. Slow as a snail. >> Of course. Slow as a snail. Here we are, boys. We are back to the motherfucking slow as a snail. You ready? Who wants to go first? Do we both have one? Yes, of course. I'm >> check which one was it? >> I I've access the Discord and I I sometimes I'm in there looking. just tell you them. >> Yeah, of course. I know. Fuck it. Okay, so >> Oh, no. I'll go first, I guess. Okay, I'll go.

>> I I picked two cuz you both got quite you got a lot of votes basically. Um like a a lot of votes. So, first one, which box art nearly drove you mad. Oh, no. >> You got to elaborate, right? The whole point. >> Didn't I answer this? Ah, you >> That's the whole point. But now you got to go to death. No, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. I know. >> Unbelievable. >> Um, um, I mean, I I'm not going to say the brand or anything, but >> Sure.

>> It was a project that it it deceived me at the start. So when I when I got it and and I said yes to the project, I was I mean I always try to evaluate the figure if I will like it or not and if I if I'm excited to paint it or not. And I was yeah kind of excited to paint it. But then when I was painting it, I was really really really hating it because it was a lot more complex than it seemed. And >> yeah, >> you quoted less like it was monetary or it was just like it was harder than >> No, no, monetary was was fine. Probably that's the reason why I said yes um so easily. It's because it's it was well paid and even if it was worth the money like yeah it was it was good money that week and a half almost broke me like it >> you know I I had to really push without

wanting to paint. I I really didn't want to sit and paint. >> Yeah. And I hate when this happens because now I'm in a in a point where I can choose what I paint. And painting this these projects that are so awful for for my hype um makes me hate myself. Like why did I fucking accept this if I'm if I could just be painting something amazing for for someone else, you know? So yeah, >> like with the Avengers basically.

>> Yeah. But that you you chose that. >> Yeah. Although sometimes you do feel like you've got an obligation to do it to yourself or you have to finish something in a certain style. >> Well, when you >> Yeah. Yeah. I guess. >> But yeah, I agree. It's it's it's not the same. Even if that is Yeah. True. Um H I suppose these are meant to not go that deep. Uh, what's the biggest oops moment you had on on a certain client model? Hold on. Wait, before you do that, yes, the next question are now >> is what's the biggest oops moment you had with the uh with a client model?

>> Small oops moment. >> Biggest. >> I think I can answer that. Is it Isn't it when you uh forgot the the the concept art and you uh >> Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. That's true. I I was painting this box art for a for a company and I was doing my a color scheme that I just invented or saw somewhere or you know and I I was not completely on board with it to be fair. So I was painting it and I was like it could be better but it's okay.

And then for some reason I realized that uh there was a uh I think I show it to someone from the company and they they told me ah but you are not doing the concept art. And I was like oh shit there's a concept art. And then I said yeah I I much rather do the concept art because it looks so much better. And yeah I basically started again and >> they and I was maybe >> they didn't care right cuz it makes no difference to them. Well, I they didn't care because I just delivered the the good thing at the end, right? But >> maybe I was around 60 or 65% in or you >> salvage any of the work you've done?

>> No, >> like No, you just repainted the whole thing. >> Yeah. >> How do you do that? Spray can or just fix the bits that >> No, I just base co again the the areas and that's it. Aren't you like, so this is something that I struggle with because these are meant to like I don't know how you can do that because you lose all the detail. Like how how do you just >> Well, I'm not painting with um with um one of those wall roller things. Ah, I feel like even on my own models, like when I'm doing Elder Project stuff, like even if I fuck up once or >> I refine like a a line or um some sort of armor, I lose so much definition from from putting like three layers on it like >> But don't you thin your paints a little bit?

>> Yeah, I'm thin them like oh my gosh, so much on now. They're so thin. Um, but like >> I'm I would say I would probably say the same thing. I I don't think I would paint over anything. I would strip it. >> Yeah. >> But I've never stripped a figure in my life. >> Yeah. >> No, I mean it's not like I mean I literally did haven't done it. I I repainted stuff, >> but I maybe I'm too lazy to to do that. I don't know if it's laziness because the the uncomfortableness that I have from trying to paint on top of it's it's not okay. You you have no choice.

>> Yeah, I agree. >> Yeah. >> Maybe we're too stuck with golden demon vibes. Uh I mean GW vibes, Martin >> and our now is actually the enlightened one here. >> That's usually the case. >> I mean I I don't know. I think I paint pretty thin. So >> I paint thinner. I paint so thin my paint doesn't go on the model. Deal with that, mate. No, no. I mean, it's not like I don't paint with glazes or anything. I hate painting with glazes, but >> could be the scale. It could be the scale. Like, if you're if you were doing um a 28 mil model and you have to paint over it, I think your feelings might change. Whereas your larger scale stuff maybe is more art and less like precision.

>> No, no, it does make sense. Yeah, for sure. Thank you Anna for those. >> Um Martin who win >> in a paintoff you now or you studio 5 years. Okay. >> Um I would uh beat myself with a shovel. No, I would uh beat I would I would win. My me would win. >> Yeah.

cuz 5 years is a fucking long time. >> Yeah. I mean, it's the um the the way you get into painting every single day and what that does to the consistency of of how well you're painting is really good and cool. Uh I did definitely get much better at painting when I was working there and doing it all day every day. And uh I'm not painting all day every day now. I have been for the last few weeks, but generally I'm not. It's just a lot of little things where I I'm happy to to see that I'm actually improving uh and getting better. Uh so I think I guess it depends on who's judging that quality.

Maybe some things might potentially possibly look better on some stuff I did. I don't think so. No, I think I' I think I'd be I' I'd be better now, which is nice. It's a good thing to to realize, especially when you've done something full-time and you're not actually doing it full-time, but um evolution tends to work that way and and especially when you're actually trying to get better. >> I Yeah, I mean I I couldn't imagine in any profession if you painted every day that you wouldn't get better.

>> Um >> yeah, pretty much >> almost a there would be >> it is a good question with like what happens after that? what happens when you don't do it every day and when you don't have the kind of >> pressure or whatever you want to call the expectations when you don't have to deliver every day. But for me, there's been a I've been keen to get better and to keep painting. I've tried to enjoy it and I've tried to >> uh to keep painting things as as well as I can as opposed to just army stuff. and some of the commission work I've done has been sort of heavy metal replicas, which is >> a little bit um uninspiring sometimes, but it's also a really good way to stay in that that consistent quality and style and everything. So, yeah, I think I'm I think I'm a little better.

I think a good a good gauge uh on improving especially if you're trying to stay in the same style like you know you're doing a job and they ask you to deliver XY Z would really be on the amount of time it takes much more than like the skill. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. If that makes sense. Um yeah. Yeah. I think exactly a lot of a lot of uh jobs when you do it for a long time you get good at it but you also get quicker and more efficient than that. And I think that's definitely something that happens with everyone. >> It's ironic that that doesn't work in marriage because I tell you, I'm much quicker and she is not happy. So, what is the next question?

What's the biggest Oh, no, that was yours. What's your weirdest freelance commission so far? >> Me? >> Yes. >> Uh, well, >> you didn't get here. I think I think you timed out before you got to this question, but everyone wanted to hear the answer. Apparently, >> I did answer it. I answered it. And I answered it for a long time. I got into a whole fuck, I'll just do it again then. So I I already did this. I I got asked to do a 10-man squad of Chaos Space Marines that were all the same. See, you guys remember all the same pose.

Uh apparently someone had bought at least f at least five. I'm not sure how the spruser last week as well. You answered this. >> Yeah, just a week ago. go back and listen to the previous episodes, fucking nerds. But that's that's what that's definitely the weirdest. And I um especially since I actually did it. Um >> you had to do it. It's commission, baby. >> That's right. >> Yeah. Cool. Well, there you go. Let us quickly find the um cheeky cheeky Dr.

Love brush. We don't have a jingle, unfortunately. H I should probably do one. It's a It's a >> You can improvise one, >> doctor. Yeah, I I kind I had some ideas with doctor like he was going to be a CD doctor and he'd be like, "Hello, like a little bit like this." Um, >> yeah, but he's naked, but he's just got the trench coat on. >> Um, >> what the fuck? >> But where he's he's he's wearing like um a strap on, but it's a brush. And that's Dr. Love brush. >> Holy shit. >> That's where >> So, he's a rapist doctor. >> No, he always gets he always gets uh permission. Yeah, there are people.

>> Naked man with a lab coat, but also a strap on. That's a paintbrush. >> Yeah. And he's also very helpful with uh paint issues that you might have. Anything paint related that you need to >> He's there. >> I wouldn't go to that the jingle you were going to do for this. >> It was going to be okay. Hang on. I was going to say my my beautiful wife is leaving. Oh, she didn't react. That the joke was she's not beautiful. That was the joke. Yes, you are >> hilarious. Thanks. But she was there, so it wouldn't be funny if she wasn't. Um, right. Uh, Dr. Bruff.

It was going to be beep beep beep. In the background, obviously, and then it was going to be like, um, yes, beep beep beep. He comes in and he goes, "Oh, what is the problem?" Huh? And then he sounds a little bit French mixed in with the the the guy from episode one as well, the flying guy. French but French >> French >> from the underground. >> It's not. Yeah. I mean, >> what is the problem, my friend? >> Yeah. Yeah. But he's sexy. It's got to be It's got to be more creamy. It's got to be like, "Oh, what is the problem, you fucking sexy cunt." But he's It's only based on Russian. No, >> I struggle. It's meant to be It's meant Look, it's not important what it is. All right. The point is he's a doctor and he wants your love. But about fucking who knows. All right. These jingles they they they manifest when I get in there and I I need it out. I So the question >> not send your submissions for the Dr.

Brush Love jingle. Jamie will sort it out. >> Oh my god. That would be a good competition. I mean >> amazing. >> Trouble is you're struggling. Five listeners. Do you know what I mean? You're not going to get many. I mean, the the the chance to feature the a jingle made by them, it's it's the opportunity of a lifetime. >> It really is. I agree with you on that one. >> It really is. >> And the thing is when we're on like billions bound >> Yeah.

What was the first question? >> Yes. Thanks, mate. Um, you were the Anyway, if you are, this is Lin by the way. If you are painting for a high display level tabletop, high display level tabletop. Yeah. Do you ch do you change contrast or do you take into account different shittier in brackets real world light conditions? Um and then just elaborate on it basically. So in other words, if you want a high level tabletop, I assume do you really try and do like authentic lighting or do you just do like a wash? Is that's I think the question is do you do you do more contrast so that it will be more visible from uh uh from a couple meters away where you're actually gaming. I think that's a good question and a good thing to consider. Do you do you have an answer for that or not? Cuz you've actually painted an army pretty much but I but he's saying I'm a bit confused because he's saying high level display tabletop.

>> Yes. >> Which which is it? tabletop or display. >> Where's high level tabletop, mate? >> High. >> So, without display. >> Yeah, I think he's saying high high display level tabletop. So, it's always tabletop. >> It's it's basically I think >> um how do you change contrast or take into account different real world light conditions to to push yourself to be a higher tabletop? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In in my case, I don't I don't care. I always paint with the same thing in mind, which is an an ambient light. So the when I paint, I always put the figures outside my my lights to see it well. And there that's where where I you see the figure exactly how it should be, not not inside the your your closed light area because then that's that's too much light. It's not a condition that you will see it ever.

Uh, and also if you have too much light in your desk, that's also a problem. So, you have to you need >> What do you mean you have to use a lamp on your desk? >> It is, but too much light >> tabletop doesn't use it. Yeah. Interesting. But too too much light will make your paints your figures look a lot darker outside of it because light what what does reflects on your figure right? If you have more light more light will reflect. So you will get used to seeing your figure a lot darker.

>> So so I think >> but when you're painting for are you talking about tabletop or anything you're painting? >> Anything. It this doesn't matter. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, cuz if you're painting for for box art, you're painting for photography, and when you're taking the pictures, you're using a lot of light, right? >> To be fair, I'm painting for myself. I I never paint for the pictures, and I never paint for the I just paint to see the figures, okay, in my hand. Basically, >> that's what she said. >> I never think about the pictures and I never think about anything else other than I I have to like them in my hand.

That's what she said. Um, sorry, that's probably the best she said. said said I basically said, >> yeah, that aside, which is a good point. I do think if you're going to paint an army that uh it's a good idea to consider like just high visibility. I really think that's a I've seen so many armies that are that look really gray and dark. Like no matter what you're painting, it just doesn't really read that well on the table. And then sometimes I'll see, I don't know, someone will do like a blood angel's army and they've just sprayed the whole thing in like a really vibrant red and I'm like actually from where I'm standing next to the table that looks really cool. So yeah, I I I don't paint a lot of armies myself, but that's something I would consider is using just like vibrant bright colors.

>> If I mean depending on which army you're doing, if you're doing iron warriors, then that's a different thing. But >> yeah. >> Yeah. But if it's a high level one, I wouldn't care. >> Yeah. Yeah, but you don't want like high level. I don't know if this is true in my head. It it it's more complex, right? Which is translates lot a lot worse when you're looking at it from 20 m away or 10 meters away or >> like you don't want to be that >> the subtle wouldn't read. >> Yeah. >> The the point is to to be able to get close to it and look at each miniature and see all the cool stuff, right? Instead of just looking at it from 3 meters away.

>> That's what makes it high level to have. >> It is possible. Of course it is. >> Okay. Sorry. Yeah. Um, there you go. Ling, are you ready? LG, he's new, I think. Or he doesn't ask much. Hold on. Oh, fuck it. I don't know. I didn't know what he cares. How important is sketching on models and what makes a good sketch? Uh, any tips for finishing models like touching up imperfections? So, do the first one. How important is sketching? >> The first ones are now 100%. >> Um, how important is it sketching? I mean it is important only if you need it.

>> Next question. No, >> no, no. >> Just like changing your t-shirts. >> It is it is I actually discuss this in in many workshops because people think that they have to sketch but they don't know why or they don't know how or you know a sketching is a means to an end. It's not a it's not a a thing that you have to do. It's just a way to get to your ideal figure. So if you already know how you will get there, you don't have to sketch. If you don't know, >> you have to sketch.

>> Mhm. But no one knows how to get there before >> you. Yeah. I mean, if you have done it many times, you know how to how to reach there. So >> you will go slower. You maybe you you will not have to clean as much. you will go more straight to the point. Instead, if you are doing a complex lighting, you don't know how you will in in in what millimeter you will end the surface, in what color it will be, how much, you know, light or shadow or color. So, the more complex, the more you need the sketch. Yeah, that does actually make sense.

Fair play. Yeah. Fucking hell. I mean I like when I went through my exploration like six months before I quit painting and I hated it and everything was terrible. I was only sketching and trying to resolve all this shit that and I I think I didn't know what I was trying to do. >> I didn't know what I wanted and I didn't know where I was going. Like I was just sketching for the hell of it rather than sketching everything like not I wasn't doing 28 mil blah blah blah but yeah sketching I kind of hate it now but I might have to start when I get back into painting. Any tips for finishing models like touching up imperfections? I suppose that's you, Martin.

>> Um, touching up imper I um tend to leave um sometimes I'll leave the last highlight or um I don't know painting like rivets or just just the final touches. I'll tend to leave that on every piece if I'm doing sub assemblies or on the whole miniature and then do all of that at the very end. I think um touching up imperfections, it's hard to to say something general like it depends on the imperfections. It depends on what you're talking about. Very often when we're doing 40k, we will resort to chipping or weathering or battle damage of some kind, which is like really useful. Um, another thing that I do sometimes which I think is is really good to keep in the back of your head that you can do is like just tint a lot of uh tint anything really in in with a color. So you can if you think that something you painted that's red isn't really as vibrant as you want it to be, you can give it a glaze of yellow or something like that. A lot of that is maybe less to do with imperfections, but

I would count that as touch-ups. >> Yeah, touch-ups in my mind is like the last 5% to to take Yeah. And I always I always try to leave time at the end of any project, whatever I'm doing, four touch-ups. Um Yeah. And it's always it it I don't know. It depends a little bit on what your definition of like finished is, but to me that's always like it's finished, but I still need to do touch-ups. And that's literally every single thing I paint always needs something something else at the very end. And that's when it's usually when it's all assembled. Everything is like ready to go.

Do you know what? I really like Dr. Love Touch. I think he's um >> Love Touch. Fuck. >> Love Brush. Love I think that's where I went wrong with my naming. I've got Love Touch in my And he's just a >> Love touch has doesn't even have a brush. That's just >> It's a doctor and a dick. >> Just like close your eyes, open your mouth. >> Oh, doctor. Yeah. It's all What's that meme? He's like, "It's a doctor and there's a guy there and he goes, "Right, David, try not to get an erection." And then the the the patient goes, "My name's not David." Yeah, mine is. Um, yeah, that's good. I enjoy uh erection jokes. Not too Not too coarse and not too often. I find if you're going to do good sexual jokes, don't overdo them. Do you know what I mean?

>> Mhm. >> Yeah, of course. >> So, it's it's you got to know when to slide them in. That was a a pun. That was one. Yeah, there one right there. >> But but admittedly when when when when I go there, I don't want to I don't want to draw attention to it, you know? >> I want to obviously I did. So for Golden Demon tomorrow, because it is tomorrow, which is fucking mental, by the way. >> Tomorrow. >> Yeah. >> I haven't done anything. I I I haven't even conceptually thought that we're leaving tomorrow. >> That's business as usual. >> I'm doing that now. I'm literally doing that right now. Yep.

>> I'm I'm assuming you'll you'll pack tomorrow and get to the He will leave 10 minutes before the flight uh leaves. >> Not true. I need I plan You got to be there half an hour before the plane leaves is when I get to the airport. >> If you have some some sort of um airport anxiety and you go with Jamie, you will you will have a heart attack at least >> or two. >> But you realize after doing that 12 times that actually it always works out. You never miss a flight and you're more relaxed.

>> If you get to the airport 30 minutes before your flight leaves, then you're getting to the airport when they're boarding the plane. >> Ah, he he wants he his ideal his ideal scenario is arriving to the gate where when there's no one there, >> right? Because >> just just as the last few people walk in. >> Yeah. Okay. Now, Arnell, how many times have I sent you videos or photos of me getting there? Yeah, >> I know. I know. You you literally you were sending us a video and and it was >> 30 minutes before the before the plane departure and he was in the car. 30 minutes and it was like how how is this possible?

>> You you know the the airport is 20 minutes away. Okay. So, I know that and I I normally I do a little bit due diligence about an hour before I would want to leave. I quickly check to see if there's traffic and I'm like, "Do you know what? There's no traffic." I've done that like twice and then I get in the car. For example, okay, in London, we left. Tina was like, "Look, Jay, I hate not getting there early and I absolutely hate the stress of thinking I might miss my flight." And she does. She hates it. Right. So now we've got a deal where she just doesn't. She goes, "I just leave it with you. I'm not even going to think about it." And you say when we leave, right? London, 45minut drive to 50. We've got to drop the car off to the rental place and then get a shuttle bus to the airport. Okay, so you need to leave about an hour and a half, right? Roughly, you want to get there an hour before the plane leaves to dropping off the car, >> right? Then it's 15 20 minutes to get to the airport. You got 40 minutes in the airport.

>> Um, >> and we left an hour and a half and then we hit stationary traffic >> like, >> oh shit, >> two miles outside of our house. It was like stationary. And then after about 20 minutes, I was like, "Yeah, do you know what, Tina? I think I I'm not I think we're gonna miss the flight. I'm not saying it is because we haven't missed it yet." And she goes, "That's not how time works, Jay. You can't just say you you're not going to miss it cuz you're not late yet." That's kind of like I've got an interview. I know the trip takes 10 minutes and I, you know, I leave with 8 minutes left, but I'm like, do you know what? I'm not late yet because I've still got 2 minutes. Anyway, >> that's not how I work. We made the flight. We fucking made the flight, right? In her to to her credit, Tina didn't get stressed. She gets stressed easily. Like really easily. We made >> stressed easily. And you are the way you are. Like >> probably she's the most stoic woman in the on earth.

>> Yeah. Literally. >> You said that she likes to arrive there quite early. So with everything else you said, like how how are you alive? Well, we're not traveling. Do you know when your uh Yeah, exactly. Do you know when your flight is leaving tomorrow, Jamie? >> So, I don't know if I've got the flight booked. I just looked on on my flight app and I can't see any flights. So, where are we going to >> Dorf? >> Oh, Dusseldorf. Dusseldorf. Hello, it's me, Dudeldorf. >> When are you leaving or now?

>> At 9 20 something, I think. The the flight leaves at 9:20 something. >> Yeah, I think so. No, >> they need you need to get there quite early. >> Yeah, the good thing is that they live near >> you don't need to leave early. Um 9. Okay. So, let me let me By the way, we've we've finished with the main episode, right? So, everybody wants >> Yeah, you can leave. You can leave. We >> We've made a conscious decision. I have anyway to now do the do the the hardcore riff raff at the end of the show, right? We'll try and keep the early shit to the boring stuff, painting and all that bollocks. And then the only reason why we're here is for this bit in my opinion.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, >> this is the behind the scenes. >> I don't know if this is real. I booked my flight through a thing called mytrip.com. That feels like a fucking scam. >> Scary. >> Yeah, I've been around. >> I'm almost sure that you booked a flight cuz we were chatting about it. >> Yeah, I also think so. I I I Yeah. Well, do you know what happened once is I was like, normally the way my brain works, okay, is if you could imagine an infinite hall, okay, a long corridor and there's doors on either side. Everything inside the corridor you can retain. You have information. You can easily bring it up. Jamie, what color is red? And I'll have red. Uh, Jamie, when are we recording the podcast? I'll be like, Wednesday because we've agreed it yesterday, right? So, I know. But what the way I think I think this is a good analogy by the way or at least uh I'm committing how my brain works. Jamie, have you booked your flight for Golden Demon? I know I have. So there's a door in the hallway somewhere along that whole day that says yes, Golden Demon flight booked. All the information is

behind that door. >> So then when I need the information, I go and open that door, right? We had it last year at Golden Demon. I booked a flight for something and I put it behind the door and then I couldn't find that flight anywhere. I looked on the apps. I looked in my email and I couldn't find it for shit. Is it just It's just a shit. It's a shit camera, isn't it? Um, so then I booked another flight like €250 or some shit. Uh, and I did have another flight and I worked it out like a day before I got on the flight so I couldn't cancel it. So, um, I do have a flight. It's booked 11 9:15. Okay. So, 9:15. I'm leaving my house for that flight.

8:00 rush hour to 8 I think roughly. >> So that that's quite late but that's because I don't know I've never traveled at 9:00 to know >> when rush hour is. >> Shouldn't Shouldn't Yeah, that should be rush hour, shouldn't it? I mean >> but no one leaves at that time, right? No one no one everyone coming in. >> You you are going to to the airport by car or by train. >> Yeah, I'll just get a car. Yeah. Or rent a car. It does actually add on a lot of price, but it means I know the it's a 20-minute drive basically.

>> And then it's about 10 minutes, 15 minutes in the airport because you just skip security, you skip the passport, and then you're in. So, it's like you you're doing all right, is it? Like >> they cover Jimmy though. >> I will I will add I will preface um if um yeah, my fuck the other camera, right? If um if if I've got time, I I'll go in the queue. So, it's fine. I I I I don't want to just push in for the sake of pushing in cuz it's a bit unfair. It's a bit of a dick move, isn't it? >> But yeah, >> if I'm running late and I'm like, Jesus Christ, look, sorry, mate. I've literally got 20 minutes till my plane takes off. Could you mind if I just go in front of you? And I ask the person at the front. I don't ask the other 400 people in the queue.

>> But I mean, yeah, if that's fair enough, but like you you could have just gotten there early. They don't know that you're not I mean this is your you're you're mis >> How can you get there? >> Why? >> Like how do you get there early? You just leave earlier. What the fuck? It's like saying I'm just going to dip my balls in acid. Like why would I do something that hurts me? You can't you can't do it. It's impossible. >> Yeah. Try trying to reason these things.

I think it's like Yeah. Yeah, I mean he >> it it hurts to get there early, >> right? >> So you're Oh, so you're just selfish. That's the word. Okay. >> Yeah, I'll take it to be fair. Um and you know what's the real bull the ball sack is? I get to like sort off an hour before anyone else does. >> Maybe maybe >> that's the punishment for your bullshit. Yeah. Jamie's comes there earlier. I feel like maybe you and Albert No, wait. Are now are you flying with Albert? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, I think you and Albert >> they're 950 warning, by the way. This is completely uninteresting to I mean, even >> I warn we warned them. We told them this is bullshit and they're here. They're not They're not here for any reason right now >> except for the company. >> Stop listening or you're going to hear me like describe what what I might >> You are right though. I I didn't know we were going to get into the particulars of uh what time people are coming in fairness. Um, so yes, I am uh do you know what? It's really good timing. Okay, this is like after hours podcast, isn't it? If you were to coin it like this is the this is the patron basically the extra hour of bullshit.

>> I think it's worth uh discussing your tardiness and and uh insane relationship with airports because it's just part of how you are. Me and now are just we just do what people do and that's completely uninteresting. Yeah, exactly. >> So, so in fairness, that was a worthwhile segment and a discussion to have. >> I um I don't like I don't like I don't like it when people go to airports early. >> Yeah, it was clear. That was clear.

Yeah, >> that's the message. That's >> not just airport. It's like interviews, meetings. You might need to you might need to go from the Airbnb back to the airport tomorrow to pick up me and St. >> I don't mind that at all. >> Or someone will maybe our now can do that actually. Someone can drive a car and pick us up. >> Uh we've rented so I'll be the only insured unless we pay extra. But I um I got no problem driving. But I would rather I'd probably rather drive home for 10 minutes to have 20 minutes at home and then drive back another 10 minutes then stay somewhere for 50 minutes. Yeah. No. Yeah, I get that. I would also rather just drive places. I like driving.

>> Yeah. I'd rather drink something or whatever and chat. >> How can you What? I'd rather chat in the car. I >> Yeah. >> Okay, good. Um uh where the fuck was I going with this? Not not the Golden Demon thing. The other thing that I had in my head. Um well, I suppose that's it. I've forgotten. just end the episode. >> Yeah, >> I think you wanted to talk about at the start of the episode and I forgot what that was. >> Anime.

>> Oh, yes, that's what that was. >> I'm excited by anime. We don't we don't we we can end it now. I feel like I've >> Yes. Things things are getting weird. >> Oh, we're going to do some kind of recording at GD. So hopefully when people listen to this No, not when they listen to this, but there's going to be so much amazing content. brilliant coming from this podcast >> world. I suppose we should release this today. >> I I do think that we I I plan for us to record uh little segments for each day and then just release a small video.

Probably it won't be on Spotify. It will be on YouTube >> hopefully. Probably when you're listening to this, it it is still before GD and we're on our way there >> or everyone except Jamie is. >> And uh >> cuz I missed my flight. Well, you're all fucked if I miss my flight. You won't have a card basically. >> Yeah, that's good. >> Rolling the dice. Um, thank you gentlemen. >> Thank you for the listeners. Those 16 people now.