The Dangers of Feedback Addiction! Are you asking for too much help?!

>> Um it's very good. It's very good. It's two new ones in a way but one's one's got a jingle. Anyway, [snorts] I've not planned much for this episode to be honest. In fact, I've I've planned so little that I don't even know what the meat of it is. I haven't done I haven't done Gropbusters and I haven't so yeah I was hoping that you boys could carry the show today >> also >> and um yeah so [laughter] yeah good >> intro how you guys doing 75% look at that you um so boop boop now we've got we've got the we've got the staples obviously we've got um we've got us us three on the Oh, pretty good.

>> That usually works. Yeah, [laughter] >> we've got we've got >> So, on the agenda today, >> do you want us to help you? >> No, really though. Really? I like we've got we've got a meat of it. We've got we got >> We actually have a meet of it. We can just we can talk about the stuff that people are asking us on. >> Yeah. Oh, well, so we we've got meat of it, which I think I know what I want to do. I do want to do fucking Right. Hold on. My Hold on. Hold on, guys. Right. Got it. Sorry if uh if the use Oh, no. I could Oh, fuck. Oh, fucking hell. I'm going to run this through pre-processing, post-processing to or to level my audio. [sighs] So, anybody who's a first-time listener, we are Mini Matters podcast and we are organized and [cough and clears throat] we are three people on a podcast now.

Okay. So, we have Mini Matters, that's us. We have the meat of it, of course. We have Taskmasters. We have the new segment, which I won't tell you in. We've also got two We've got two new segments. Okay. So, if you really are a first- time listener, we break our episodes into jingles. Okay. And jingles are >> the only thing that we we we only do the episodes to hear the jingles. All the rest is just Yeah. >> Yeah. I'll give you Look, I'll give you a little quick example of a jingle. If you already know what a jingle is is relatively boring for you. Look. Look.

It just covers Martin's face. Okay. You ready? >> Um, fast race car. >> That's jingle fast as a race car, which we're not doing today. In fact, I realized [laughter] [gasps] the staple of Anyway, we've got Dr. Love Brush. Okay, let me fucking explain it. All right, the meat of it, it's something that we talk about and it's meaty and it's beefy. Okay, fast as a race car we're not doing, so you don't need to care. We're doing things I hate and that's just one quick thing that that I hate.

Okay, I've I found another one and it's really fucking annoying. you guys, depending on what you do, you'd you'd have it. Then we've got task masters. Now, this is a task master we've been waiting for a while. Task masters is where the three of us or one of us or the audience come up with one thing for us to do in that month, right? Previous ones have been you build a base. You can do anything what you wanted on a base. Uh the model of the month from Games Workshop. Um stuff like that. Paint your model with your left hand. We haven't done that one yet, but I still really want to do that one. Um, we did once one that was painting 15 minutes a day for a whole week.

Did I do it? And and yeah, and you you loved it. Damn. [snorts] Um, and this week's Taskmaster, we'll get there when we get there or month, I should say. Um, and then we've got a two new segments. So, this is the longest intro we've ever done without saying anything. As I say, >> without if if there's still people listening. Yeah, we well all >> if you are actually a first time listener and you're still a first time listener then thank you. Holy shit. You're you're very patient. >> No, I think they're captivated by the confusion of what's going on. They they It's like a car crash. They can't look away.

But to be honest, you lose most your listeners in the first 30 seconds. Anyway, I've also got this. Right. So,

let's get to the the news. Okay, now we're in the news. Hold on. I fucking need that to hook that up. Yeah. Hold on. Do we have a jingle for the news? >> Yeah. >> God, how dare to find it. >> Victorian paper. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. Did I delete it? Topic of the week. No. >> The week. [laughter and cough] That was voted the worst jingle. >> Right. That's the the jingle for the news. Of course. I don't know if you three um have anything any you two. Go on, man. Go on, mate. Well, >> no, no, no.

>> I was going to say on the on the background, there's a background noise like there's like wind a big guy drumming with some massive drums or something. >> Was that in the jingle or do you think there's Yes. In the Right. Right. >> Jingle is captivating. I was just going to ask where did you record that? Where's it from? Is it from a movie? No, I don't know where it's from, but I spent a great amount of time finding um Victorian street paper boys basically. So that that that noise now is the wind because the boy is obviously always on the street, right?

>> He's got no real money. He's a slave basically, you know, he doesn't get paid probably. It's probably like a family job. I don't know. >> Or maybe he gets paid in food because there was a lot of famine and like disease back then. It's tough. So, >> yeah. Well, yeah. >> Little Jamie, >> are you ready for the news? >> Very much. >> Okay. Yes, >> there's news. >> Well, I'm not pregnant if that's what you mean. But, um, [laughter] >> yeah, we expected that.

>> I I would love another kid. However, my little one now is turning into an absolute twat, right? And I'm wife's always been like, "No, two's enough. He's already struggling." And I'm like, "We don't struggle. It's easy." Yeah. I'm struggling. I'm like, I don't believe in corporal punishment, right? But do you know what that is? >> Yeah. >> I don't know if they have it in Spain. They probably still do, actually. >> Physical. >> Yeah. Just >> physical punishment. Hitting your kids. >> Of course. >> Legally. Well, in the UK it's illegal now, right? Which I think.

>> So, so sometimes I smack my kid, right? And I'm when I say smack my kid, I'm literally talking this. I'm like, Pippen, stop it. Okay, you I could barely feel that burst into tears like cries little face off. So, what I've learned, okay, from smacking my kids is the it's the it's the it's the intent that they're sad about. >> It's It's not the Cuz there's no pain. It's not the pain. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, stop it. Right.

No, Pippen. Pippen, calm down, mate. It's fine. It's fine. It's It wasn't a real smack. All right. And he's like, "Oh, wasn't it?" I go, "No, no, it wasn't." He goes, "All right, fine. Sorry, Dad." But anyway, yes, he's a real shithead. So, I don't think I want three now. Um unless there was like the first and then it'll be fine. But the news [sighs] I was on um I was on an e scooter. Do you know they are? I don't know if you have them in. You don't? Yeah. Yeah, of course. Sorry. [laughter] Okay. I just expecting more a reaction. Um, [laughter] and >> you're building some expectations and if this doesn't go anywhere, I'm >> It's really bad. It's not. It doesn't go anywhere.

>> This is the actual thing after the tangent about hitting your kids is that you're on an e scooter. >> Smack it. Don't hit. >> Welcome to the Mini Matters podcast. >> I mean, I expect that you fell and you broke your your leg. Oh, it's it's related to So anyway, I was on the scooter and I was I was late for this appointment that I had, okay, which was to play Warhammer. >> And [snorts] he'd already messaged me, >> why, where are you? Okay, but in a in a slightly and I'd left like 50 minutes late because I had to have a nap before the game. Um, and so I had a nap. It was a great nap. And then I I I was like, "Yeah, okay. I should leave." And I did.

And I was on the scooter. And then it just re it stopped. It just stopped working. I was like And I was like, "Fuck." and I was really close to his house. I was like, I don't want to walk. Um, so then I started pushing it with my like foots like that, but it's heavy. Anyway, I twatted my ankle on the ed back of the scooter, right? And I was like, "Ooh, ow." But I was like, [snorts] I've twatted myself before. It's fine. Ultimately, it was fine, but it swelled up like a fucking balloon, right? The whole thing is now swollen and purple. Um, and it re the scooter rebooted itself eventually, which I've never had before. Um, so I was able to go up the hill of the walk. But yeah, it's interesting. Basically, that's the news. And it made me realize either I'm old now because I'm 40 and I'm fucked.

And like to to you know when your granddad used to fall down the stairs or like he'd come back with a bruised face and like his whole chest would be like red and you'd be like, "Fucking hell, what happened to you?" He's like, "Oh, I just literally fell over in my house." And you're like, "Jesus." Like we're meant to die. Like like we're not meant to live to like 90. Anyway, I I I mean I hit it hard, don't get me wrong. I twatted it. I was trying to like fucking move this thing, but it was on my ankle. It was on the bone of the ankle, right? And I was like, it didn't hurt that much for the for the swelling and the bruise that has come. I basically I just think I'm I'm getting old.

>> Yeah. Happens. >> Yeah. I think uh I mean I've thought about this a lot with uh any physical exercise now is like I don't know what it's like to be a young uh like person going to the gym like all these >> fucking influencer fitness people I realize are much younger than me and so their ambition to like really get into shape like they they think that they're going to get in better shape than they are. Whereas for you, for us older folk, it's more about preventing injury.

That's all it is. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's all it is. >> And prolonging life. Like I'm fully aware now. It's >> potentially. Potentially. Yeah. >> It's been four years since I've like really done any exercise. Done sporadic. I played football, but I was so fat that I couldn't really play. Like it wasn't it wasn't like when I was younger. And um in those four years, I've I've realized that I've just sat on my ass, done work. I mean, I'm talking really sitting on my ass. That That's deceiving. Okay, that that's not even got uh little things. Yes, the Sorry, there's a bike in the background for anybody who can't see my finger. It doesn't It's too big. They sent me the large instead of small, so I haven't ridd him. Yes. Anyway, point is I'm pretty sure if I continue on my city like my my just by doing no exercise, I'm pretty much early graving myself. I'm shaving like 20 years off my life probably. So that's the new Wait, I I think I had another news.

Oh, fuck. Yeah, I did. I did. I did. A better on onp point news. Okay. >> Better than we're all going to die >> unless you exercise more, right? I mean, welcome to the Mini Matters podcast. We're all going to die >> if you sit on your ass. Yeah, exactly.

Also, I've added that Discord, which I'm which you're already in probably if you're listening. But anyway, look. Fucking hell, I painted. >> Oh, yeah. >> Those are news. >> That's pretty much the meat of it, to be honest, is >> we should bring back the journey to be fair. >> Yeah. I mean, now actually, we could bring back the journey. Martin doesn't really want to do the journey in our in in in the same way we want to do the journey. >> So journey >> I don't think I've said no to that. I've noticed that there's been people have been writing in that that thing in the discord but it's just to do with you.

>> Well it's not actually everyone has different journey. >> Yeah. >> Okay. My journey's been so my concept of everything works out. Okay. 400 grand debt whatever. Oh it's really bad. Yeah it was. But seven years later I'm out. sort of so it's everything works out is all about perception because in that hole when you realize that they might take your house and your wife might leave you and all this stuff right I didn't ever think that but just saying that that that that's where you could go with it your brain or you think do you know what it probably will work out but if I didn't think long it wouldn't have worked out cuz in that time it was fucking shit basically um and I've always the painting thing it will always work out that will come back to it. It just took six years and I never thought I'd come back. So I was never worried. So the So the point here is I am I am back.

[laughter] >> We are really pushing our listeners today. >> I >> this is a test of endurance. >> This is I'm happy. They got a They got a morsel of something to do with mini painting. >> No, no, we're back. We're back with painting. >> Right. This is the most fun I think I've I look. All right. Right. Look, I'll be honest. >> There's there is an actual point here, right? Cuz you've painted. You didn't paint. And you were almost like uh obstinately avoiding painting for a long time. This is where when I started doing this thing with with you guys, you were like, I don't paint. I'm not a painter.

Fuck painting. And people who paint. Now all of a sudden, boom, enjoying painting. Massive news. >> Am I enjoying it though? So, let's go. Let's go. Let's rewind a little bit. Okay. I started painting this model two years ago. I think two and a half years ago. So, that was Oh, that can't be right. Let's say a year ago. And No, no, actually, that is right cuz I started painting other stuff. I put it down cuz I I started doing freehand on the cloak and I realized I can't do it. It's like it was too hard. So, I just fucking quit and then I went to some more tabletop shit. This time I've been painting a bit more freely and I'm actually surprised.

I think I'm surprised it's it's it's it's taking a different direction from my thought. It's basically more are now and less um golden demon, right? Which wasn't a deliberate conscious thing. Martin's little alarm bells going off. No, I I like if you look at my >> by that by that description, it's like our now doesn't paint display stuff or what are you saying? >> Our now doesn't paint heavy metal style. It's a very distinct >> No, but every metal and golden demon is not the same thing. Did you mean to say heavy metal? Cuz you said golden demon.

>> Oh, that to me they're the one and the same. But yeah, you are right. [laughter] >> No, you just meant Games Workshop style. And yeah, that that's that's totally fair. This is more like our now and less like me. >> Yeah. And and that's I'm using that term loosely, by the way. Not our now because it's not our now style, right? Like >> of course. >> Yeah. But it's it's different from the previous models that I painted, I believe. >> Yeah. >> Um and I had a lot of fun painting the black stuff, the the cloak, the helm, and basically not the N&M. Okay. And and h&M hen is the thing. Fuck sake, I've just got Andy now in my ear saying you can't say NM. And then him laughing in my face at my pronunciation of MM. and then him telling me to say NM and then laughing again.

>> It's stick to it. It's called N&M now. Fuck it. >> I don't know what it's called anymore. But um so I tried and I got I've spent as long as I did on that NM as I did on the rest of the model, right? And I've restarted it like six times. Um and I kind of got into a semi pit of despair thinking this is where I was before and I can't do it basically, right? It's impossible. I didn't think that, but I was like, this is fucking hard and I'm having to do it a lot. And then I thought, just just keep going in it. Just don't worry. Just crack on. And that's what I've done. And I was trying to do N&M with I was right with um with bleached bone and and snake bite leather. Okay. And a little bit of white. It's a bone sword. It's a it's a race bone sword, right? So it doesn't follow the normal, but it's shiny cuz it's polished. Cuz it's a sword.

>> Yeah. Sure. >> Fine. And um and last night I got I got it to a little bit where I'm happy. I'm not saying it's finished. It's shit. >> Like I can objectively look at it and go that's not good. >> If you understand what I mean, right? But it's h I'm happy. I'm happy with where I've with as hard as I found it. >> It's closer to Yeah. It's closer to what you expected. Yeah. Can I just quickly um mention for anyone that wants a clearer image in their head of what we're talking about, it's an oathway eldar warlock. So the black is oathway stuff, the bone is oathway stuff and the model is Oway stuff and it's an Elar warlock.

>> It is. >> Which I mean that might be obvious to someone who's listened to the last 6,000 episodes of this podcast that you paint ain't Elar a bit. >> It's true. That is true actually. Yes. >> So look, in fact, right, I know we we never said videos, okay? But you guys won't be able to see this, but um the viewers at home will. Okay, look, that's the elder guy. Don't you can't see, right? And then that's the N&M that I'm trying to do on the sword. You can't see. I'll send you the I'll send you a photo. Right. So I'm happy with the helmet. I'm happy with the thing. I'm I'm generally like happy with it.

Generally, not genuinely. Generally. Oh shit. Wait. Oh, okay. Well, hold on. Right. So, just for full context, there you go. You've got a picture of the model. Okay. Uh Martin and I are now >> um now, oh shit, wrong wrong. Right now, it's not a great photo. I will admit that, but it's not important. The So, the top half I'm more happy with. The bottom half is much more the old style, and I kind of want to redo it all. Right. >> Bottom of the figure, you mean? >> Yeah. It's like the old, you know, pouched things and just bleach bone on blah blah blah. Right. So, and I want to push some other stuff, but anyway, >> we don't need to diss it. And I don't want to go on.

>> I have to say the the helmet and the white on the helmet and the black. It's it's it's a lot more than I expected. >> Better. >> More more what? Better or just more paint? Yeah, it's it's better but but more in a in a more more complex than I expected like you because you were doing the the eime metal style before and and now you said that you are trying to to be a bit more loose. You are actually doing quite a lot looser than just a little bit it feels and and I think you're succeeding actually it but [clears throat] this the Yes. Thank you. And it it feel like it feels it feels more fun in in one regard, right? And only because um I can semi- let go, if that makes sense. I'm able to I'm able to paint and I can kind of feel like what works, what doesn't work, if

that makes sense. I look at the stuff and I'm like, "Ooh, that feels wrong." If that makes sense. Obviously, Martin, you're a distinguished gold golden demon painter and are now you're a professional painter. I'm um I'm someone who painted six years ago basically. That that's where I'm at, if that makes sense. So um and I've never had a feeling of of any kind of ownership or my style. I think we spoke about this last week in the episode, right? [snorts] Um that I I I want to be a bit more free in painting and enjoy it and learn from that rather than getting bogged down in I want to do this, >> right? Um, but it's interesting that the first fucking model I paint, I suddenly got to the point of I want to do this, which was MM.

Um, >> yeah, but I I just sort of thought I'm going to crack on. But I'm I'm I'm aware that if I wanted to make that metal, >> then I would have really had a problem cuz I couldn't resolve it. I spent a day a day two hours right with the with can I just say play dirty with Mark Wahberg as the background film was probably one of the worst films I think I've seen in living memory. >> Okay. >> Sounds about right. He's one of my favorite actors.

>> Is it? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You're setting yourself up for disappointment there. >> Oh yeah. >> I've Have you seen uh the other guys? >> All time. alltime like possibly favorite film. Um, >> guys with Johnson and Sam Sam Jackson where they're uh >> where Yeah. Where they're >> Yeah. Yeah. >> overtly rockstar cops jumping off a roof. >> I like Fighters hero. Yeah. And they just die cuz that's what what happens if you behave like that. It's fucking good. >> Um I also liked it when he shouts America when he drives his Prius really fast. Um, [laughter] and I like it when Mark Wilbur can't believe that that's his wife. He's like, "Who are you?" >> Also, really, >> he's like, "No, come on, guys." And he's a >> But that that movie is great because of Will Faroh.

>> Yeah. But they play off each other. I think they work well. They play off each other. And they have, funnily enough, made other movies together because of that chemistry, which is unexpectedly funny. Mark, I guess Mark Bahberg is unexpectedly funny.

>> There we go. Only when he's not trying to be. So, so I was going to go into another tangent which you guys don't like. >> Yeah, we were talking about something. >> Yes. Yes. So, painting um something interesting. How dare you? But yeah, like so, so [snorts] it kind of put me back to where I was painting before, if that makes sense. I get I got frustrated that I couldn't resolve it. I had no idea how to I calmed myself down, right? I was like, Jay, don't worry, mate. Everything works out. And then I Googled N&M swords. Okay.

>> Didn't help. Completely stupid to do. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Cuz you'd have to find the exact sword and then you'd copy it and then you learn nothing. But >> I said, "Fuck that." And I went to the bone. And cuz I actually remembered before I started painting it, I wanted to do it bone. I didn't want to do it metal. So I I I >> Yeah, you can anytime. >> A little intersect. Like when you say that you cannot you cannot solve it. It's it's I think it's the same person that got stuck. I can hear you. So keep going.

Yeah. Ah it's it's the same person that got stuck um and and hit a wall or or you know when you stop painting because it's not like you can or cannot solve something. It's because an NNM NMM is um it's a lot more complex than what you will find around. So a good NMM is not what you will find. Um it's >> you mean if I Google >> an appro it's an approach to what an an NMM should be. So is is what you when you say solving what what I probably think is this is absolute shit as an MM >> but but you consider it as okay. So what I'm saying is that uh everything that you do will be an approach to an MM fuck me in this fucking world. Um, so what what all this means is that you

just have to do it and at some point you will end up doing it better, but there's no solving it >> because I get you >> because you will sort of >> because you will not [laughter] even if if this if this seems like a bit of a >> you'll never do it perfectly or or realistically is and and no one ever does. I guess >> it it it will take it will take years and years of doing NMM to to really do an NMM. Yeah, it's al it's also can I say that because this is a bit feels a bit blurry to me cuz it's like yeah if you if you try to fix what you're doing like are now I think what are now is saying is like you can't resolve it and just make it work as a switch like it's something you have to kind of progress through but also I find with a with a lot of this stuff like you decide to do an MM uh you have to look at like like you're saying you're googling swords to see how people paint that and then you're like, well, it's not exactly the same sword. It's not using exactly the same colors. Um, it's also just, yeah, it can't be that general anyway. Like,

you need source material. You need to look at reference photos of actual metals. And you need to kind of think about like why would I I find this a lot with with any kind of painting really. It's like you you're painting in a more are now style and less of a me style. I'm like, why why any of that stuff? Like, why paint in any way? Why put any blob of paint in the in this place that you do? If that makes sense. I feel like that kind of loose painting might work really well, but at some point it might just be that you don't know why you're doing anything and you're not sure why it's not working. And then maybe you need to start kind of figuring out like, well, why why are you painting this way?

>> Fuck. [clears throat and cough] So, I guess that's the meat of it then. Um >> the mind meat of it was going to be on judging, right? I feel like we we we're we and that was going to be not other people's judging >> um and not bitching more about um it's it's closely related actually. >> Yeah. Because what we are saying is that you are you are jud you are judging something um something that you're doing uh and you are considering it a failure if it's not up to your standard but your standard >> um can can be your your your success can be a failure for me and your failure the failure for you can be a success for someone else. Uh and because the it's it's not um if you put that line you are setting yourself up for failure because anything that it's not that it's bad >> and it cannot be like this it because it will you will do whatever you can it

will end up as as good as you can >> and the next one will be better but that succeeding or not succeeding I think it's it's dam damaging for for you? >> Succeeding succeeding is is damaging. You mean having thinking that I've done well? >> No, I'm thinking like thinking of it in that binary sense of succeeding or not succeeding. >> Yeah. >> Yes. I have to agree. I think I think again this goes back to our conversation and we will come back to that conversation a billion times because it's extremely relevant. all the time is expectations >> and what you expect cuz I think still subconsciously or not you're comparing yourself to people who >> I mean to put it simply and unfairly are better than you but that's not how it works. It's people who might have more experience or better are better at certain types of painting, but you're still kind of looking at that and you're looking at your own stuff and you think

you know what you want to achieve, but you're pretty sure probably that you don't want to go through the process of getting there. Or even more importantly, just go to the process of getting where you want to be. Like you're still your own person. Even our now and I can kind of comfortably sit here and be like, well, I'm not painting like are now, but I'm happy with what I do. But if you know at some point we kind of diverged like we started somewhere and then we started progressing in our own different directions and now we are where we are. But like that's at some point that's probably going to be you too. You're going to have your way of painting and your thing that you're more happy with than the previous thing you did.

>> And and I agree I agree 100% with this. >> And on the flip side as well, [cough and clears throat] I lost it. So >> that was fucking good.

>> Yeah, >> it was a good flip side also like very very >> poignant. Yeah. And and um life-changing. Well, >> so >> it will come back >> last week's Yes. As soon as it comes back, tell me and I'll stop talking. You quickly say it and then I can right and then we can jump back to it. Um it's so that's Yeah. Okay. There's a few thoughts going on in my head last week or whenever it was. That's what I wanted to say. I think I had the comment, I want to find my own style, right? So, it's it's it's less prescribed. And obviously, I spent a lot of time with Alfonso influence because Alfonso was the first and only person who's ever taught me, right? I've not learned from anybody else. I've not I had a lesson with some people who shouldn't have. Um >> I remember. So, but go keep going.

>> Oh, go. >> Ah. Um we we were saying about expectations and I think having a very specific expectations that are very good it's also good for example if I if I do a bone sort like you want to and I and I do it properly and and you know I I do it well and you try to emulate that this will be a lot better for you than if you try to em emulate a shit um uh thingy. So being ambitious is pretty good. It's pretty it's pretty rewarding but you have to be ambitious consciously and and targeted. Uh it it doesn't it cannot be um an like ethereal like not not concrete.

It needs to be specific. So if if I give you a nonmetallic that it's a proper work nonmetallic and you try to replicate that, you will achieve a so much better result than if you try to replicate a shit nallic, >> you know, >> but you don't know is the is the catch there. No, no, no. me as an as a person who doesn't know what's good or bad. If I try and copy a bad one thinking it's good and my results are shit, you can't you can't you you as a bad painter, not you. Juan as a bad painter would not be able to tell. And that leads into judging and why some judges are bad judges because they're not good painters.

>> Yeah. Yeah. actually that >> um and why for example certain companies who have maybe marketing people as the lead judge and um I don't know what the other guy did a game designer uh it's not the best thing but but we said it already in that Golden Demon episode possibly that that the year before uh sorry even when you had um some some great painters as judges at Golden Demon some some results were still confusing. So, um, yeah, I'm, yeah, without going into all of that. So, I to jump back, I don't So, do I agree? Yeah, I don't know how to I don't know how to tell what's a good LMM. I looked I told you I looked online and everything I saw was rubbish.

Aka, not not what I was It was like the light planes right next to the dark plane, light plane, light plane, and then some white to make some stars across the thing. And I was like, it's fine for tabletop cuz it's fucking quick to do. Um, but it I it just it didn't look right. It felt wrong. >> It sounds really generic. Even the question I mean to Google something like that whenever there's an article is like here's how to do NMM. I would that would be like a red flag for me cuz it's it's too big. It's more like how does it work with the model? What kind of metallic are you trying to do?

>> I see people all all the time talk about like oh this red NMM armor. I'm like is it NMM though? >> Anything anything that is about a high gloss surface. Is that really NMM though? >> Yeah. Anything that is how to paint something is is bad like really bad >> because pretty much >> how to paint skin. What type of skin? Under what light? Under which color of the skin? Like there's there's more than one light. Um what ambient? >> Same with no metallics. Is it very reflective? It's not refractive. How many sources of light is it reflect? So, but all these things it looks very complex and I know that you're feeling oh shit I better not paint anymore but but actually all these things what what when you solve these questions what they are doing is adding information to your painting then you just have to so when when you go to into nmm nm fuck me nm [laughter] >> yeah boy >> it's impossible to say >> I'm shady >> when you go into that you think okay I'm

going to do this bone nomalic. Uh, I have no fucking clue of what I'm going to do. You have all the questions unanswered. If you want to really do a good nallalic, you have to pick the questions first, find them obviously and answering them. And when you have all these questions answered, you have all the data to do a nomalic. So uh and obviously you don't need to go into the most complex nallics from the very start but knowing that there's a couple of things that will tell you how a nome metallic has to be I think it's the the the basics to to make your life so much easier because once you once you know that you can paint everything literally everything. So the episode of this of this will be how to paint N&M and that's what >> I really have to agree. It's kind of what I was trying to say before about like answering those kind of why questions.

>> It's but it's it's said better what are now just said is like an asking all those questions will give you all the answers. You'll you'll have an answer to all of that stuff. I mean even just now that you mentioned it like one of the most basic things what like how reflective is that metal? Sometimes you'll see people do NMM uh all the time of like really kind of burnished, tarnished armor that's not really reflective at all. That's also NMM, but if someone was like, "Oh, I've studied how to do NMM, so I can do this armor like that's completely different. It's going to look completely different >> and you have to approach it differently." So, and I mean also I should mention like specifically you Jamie if you wanted to have a good list of here's like really good well done NMM I feel like you could just ask us >> dangerous territory. Um I like >> some good references.

>> Yeah. Why didn't I I think I was I was I didn't think it'd be that hard. I sat down. I'd done all the rest. I was like, "Fuck it." Like, I can do shiny shit. >> His helmet's meant to be shiny, right? And the plane of light was >> No, don't get me wrong, the the helmet is really cool. Like >> helmet's nice. >> Yeah, it may it may need a bit of push, but it's it's well the volumes are right, which is the thing that you were concerned about.

>> Yeah. But when you added the volumes on like a 12 different sads from a shinier metal, uh, basically what I realized this, this is meant to be polished bone effectively. >> It's basically all going to be fucking bright and then just some some very slightly brighter cuz it's not bone from a body that's like got some blood on it or it's, you know, it's the same material. It's just different planes. You know, >> it's the shape, the shape and the and the and the what is the only thing that matters. The colors, it doesn't matter.

It doesn't really matter. >> So, >> it's where you put the light. And something like that would be very easy to do it because it's a smooth perfectly formed material. It's it's you know, it's not like but I I don't got nope. But you don't know where to put the light if you don't know where the light is. So the light was there in it. That's the thing. So [laughter] >> but >> like I had a very I'd forgotten where the light was >> when I was doing it.

>> And most of the times we paint without thinking about that because we paint about painting nonmetallics instead of painting >> something that's reacting to the light that we have planned. So the light is very consistent on his armor, right? >> It's it's to that side of where that place is. And um the sword, admittedly, the sword could be slightly differently positioned, right? Um but I'm not thinking that far ahead. I just didn't fucking think about it. I started the metal and I was like, "Holy cow, this is way more difficult than the fa than the helm it because the helmets are smooth." >> It's curious.

>> Right. But yes had if I had have had it in mind a bit more but the thing is it's anyway yeah I this is like when you do work >> well I think you you you >> you got into the default which which because there are some things that are well done and you clearly know what you're doing but then some other things I can see perfectly how you have not thought about it >> because if you know that light is coming from from from above right? The the the plane of of the on the sword.

>> I mean, don't get me wrong, it's cool. It's cool, but if you want to improve upon it, >> there's two different planes. That's they're pretty easy on the blade see, right? >> On the blade. >> Yeah. So, looking at the photo, I can I I I I've got and I I mean, where the shadow is at the top. Anyway, we can't go cuz people don't have the photo and stuff, but yes, looking at the photo, I as I said, when I painted that blade, I had no concept of whether there wasn't the sun wasn't important. I didn't even have it in my mind, right? I was just like, >> how can I make this look poppy >> and polished, but I wasn't like, let's try and make this, >> but having that like I can already see roughly where I need to put the I'm moving my mouse over it like there. And that should probably just be one smoother big plane and like I've done no blah blah blah. So to go back related unrelated this having that in mind is going to help I think a lot to to really know okay this is where the light's coming from. um to go back to the the expectations in your mind before you start something and that

damaging you during the painting is kind of what it's not a deliberate thing why I'm not on Instagram and stuff on and why I don't follow but it's like I'm not on social media because I don't care what other people are doing basically cuz they're never going to do stuff that I'm that interested in aka elder and and whenever something cool comes up people just send it to me and I don't want to spend hours and hours on those things. Um, but I'm still heavily influenced by things that I see when I do see, you know, when I go to the competitions. I I still see these things and that's where my unrealistic expectations are coming from, you know, I'm I'm like I we've been through this.

I saw that bloke you did years ago with the bone shit and I was trying to recreate. I didn't know you painted it. >> Same with you, man, on the three and all that kind of shit. So, you're massively influenced from external sources. Um, and I had other stuff, but what you you forgot your thing, so I was like, let's jump into yours. [laughter] Um, yeah, I I So, bottom line, the news, cuz it's just still the news. I really enjoyed painting the model. Like, I had super fun on the helm. I literally I did that first helm, shared you it, went away, thought about it while I was sleeping.

I mean, literally just like I'm I'm visualizing stuff in my head as I paint now without it's it's that's painting with your head. That's literally that's the most important thing about painting. I I assure you >> it's like wanting to undress a girl with my eyes. >> It is. >> Yeah. Just better. But um when I was doing 40k list building, I would always be thinking of stuff in my head when I was sleeping. I was like, "This could work. This could work." So, I didn't realize, but that started happening here. I'm looking forward to doing on a harder model. Harder is not the right word. A larger I still prefer large scale somehow. I'm talking 30 cm anyway.

>> So, yes, I'm painting. I really enjoyed that. I hated doing the N&M on that until I realized I'm going to do it on the bone. And I'm still thinking if I try and do N&M on a sword properly, I'll hate it. But it's the wrong approach as we've spoken. Do my level. Forget the expectations from everyone else and paint it and it will look shit basically, but you'll learn from it cuz like my Zurman the&m on that shit. But that was where I was and that pushed me a lot to even get it to that level. Um, but I still look even when I finished it, I looked at it and was like, "It doesn't make sense." And it still doesn't make sense. And then you get comments online saying, "Fuck the N&M looks great." and you're like, "Ooh, like does it?" But from their expectation, I guess it does or their >> Yes. I also I've said this before, but like it makes such a big difference when you get feedback from someone uh or I should say it it makes such a difference to get feedback rather than

have something explained to you before you do it. Um if you paint an MM sword and even when you're doing it, you think this is not good. I have no I have no idea what I'm doing. just do it anyway and then bring it to someone and then get feedback and then you can go through because then you will have done it. Like if they say, "Oh, you should have put this line here. Actually, this doesn't make any sense." That will make much more sense to you cuz you've actually done it. >> Yeah. >> As opposed to someone just taking like, "Oh, here's a just a clear piece of plastic. Like here's where you should put all the lights." That's not really going to register the same way at all.

It's not really going to help you. Like you can write it down. It still won't really make sense to you. I I I would say >> that's why I didn't ask for help. his words. >> I remember thinking during it >> during while I was painting cuz we had that conversation last week. It was exactly the reason why I didn't share photos with you. >> I didn't want to ask for feedback. I didn't want to ask for help. I was just like, let me just fucking struggle. >> Hate it. Yeah. >> Um and the helmet got better. I still think there's things I could do to improve it, but this >> I didn't I didn't prepare the model the same way you guys do for >> That's fine. It's a practice model.

>> Yeah. And it's fun and I want to try and keep it fun, right? That's basically what I want to do. So, fucking hell, exhausted. Um,

>> big news. >> Well, yeah, I painted. I really had fun and I I redid basically everything on it like twice when I painted something, thought it was good, realized it's not what I want, came back. If if you want and the listeners won't obviously we could do a a live feedback session if if it's something that you would like to for yourself >> with video >> at some point. Yeah. >> Yeah. As and not a cast as a separate thing that we release, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Like with with the Photoshop as I do with other students just we can do it and explain it and so people can see it.

>> Um >> yeah, that would be great. >> I'll pay you €9. No, that would be great. Um, [laughter] >> and it would also be good to I suppose exactly what you just said, Martin, as well, right? Dive into it once you've painted it so you can understand where you've gone wrong and where to improve. And >> I it will be very interesting for me to do it this way because in the previous lessons that I did, which is again I remember I've told the story at least twice, I don't know, with you guys, but I finished that at a Zur statue. Lina was like, "Shit, that's really good.

are you happy now? You can crack on and start painting stuff as well as this. And I was like, I don't feel anything. I don't feel any real happiness because I didn't paint it. I was just guided, [clears throat] right? I had feedback sessions once a month. Uh when I got stuck, I got stuck and then I just waited for the feedback. Um and like technically I've always been an okay painter. So when someone explained a technique for me, I could do it relatively easily, but I didn't understand why I did anything. Um, and and this concept's a little bit more um natural. I don't know what I don't know how to explain it. I'm not bitching here either or anything, but I'm saying like I've never been I've never felt free in painting. I've always felt caged um in my own like um limitations.

you know, you you have an idea in your head and you want to like the the next thing I want to do, even though task masters, but yes, the next thing I want to do is basing I've said it many many times. Um, and I just need to do it rather than say I want to do it. I just need to actually fucking do it and start doing some. And I' I've done some in the past, but I'm still scared of it. Scared. And it's weird cuz I'm not scared of failing, but I'm scared of failing. You know, I've got no fear of showing someone a shit model and being like, "Yeah, I tried this. It was fucking shit.

>> But somehow I've got some weird like block where I don't want to produce something shit. I I've got this thing where I'm >> I'm not okay with just doing something over 3 days. >> It's you you don't want to fail yourself, I think. >> Yeah. Well, wasting time like lack of improvement or it's some >> man that's why they call it a comfort zone. That's literally what that is. That's the reason why I for so long just did like the same kind of basing and the same just painted the same way as well. Like we all do that. >> Yeah, right. >> We all have those things that we're like this is what I'm comfortable doing. The point for me from just for myself is to understand that and like a comfort zone can be great. You can stay there your whole life, but >> it's probably not going to you're probably not going to evolve very much or learn that much from it or really be able to learn anything new or you know it's it's pretty a pretty general thing I think in life. But I I can recognize that and I don't think it's a bad thing as long as you do recognize what's what's happening.

>> And to be like I'm okay with being Yeah. And I firmly don't want to be in that comfort zone basically >> is I guess is is is Yeah. Yeah. Is the thing. And um >> Yeah. Fuck. I mean I'm I'm I'll be honest. I'm I'm super excited by painting. I'm like I get I like if I think about it I get um you know that feeling when you're just about to have sex with someone new or well for me it's been a long time but or you're you're you're you've got something in the post and you've wanted that thing and it's 6 months and now it's finally like you know it's coming that day. That that pure excitement thing is the feeling I have when I think about painting. um which is what I have I don't know it's what I had before for 3 years and then it just died when I got too frustrated and stopped and it's what I had with Warhammer for the last 2 years and it's what I had football my entire life I couldn't sleep every fucking Friday and it was stupid and then I'd have uh like adrenaline before the game cuz I was so excited about playing football um it was actually detrimental in a big way because by the

time the game started I'd be drained of energy because I was too excited to play for um but yeah that that's kind of what I have Now, um, >> yeah, you know that they've they've it's been scientifically proven that the feeling that you have just before you open your Christmas presents is better than anything you can feel after opening them. That's like a real thing. >> The dopamine rush, like the pure >> Yeah. >> the top. >> Yeah. And also just imagining how good good something might be. >> It's like planning a trip and then >> Yeah, exactly. I really enjoy planning trips.

>> Well, I So, this is interesting, right? This is off

topic on painting, but it's on topic of the thing of you can't be so happy that you want to be sad. Okay. >> Right. >> Are we now announcing when we go off topic? This is a new thing. [laughter] >> Yes. Yeah. I'm trying to keep it clear for everyone. >> Although I've done it like 12 times already in the episode and I've not announced it. >> Keep it clear. >> Right. I I've had a lot of I've thought about it. Right. This whole thing, Martin, where we were talking and I was trying to explain that you just don't get angry, right? And and then everybody in the room was like, "What the fuck are you talking about? When you get angry, you get angry, right?" And I was like, "But just don't." [snorts] >> And then I was like, "Yes, but >> when this is also off topic, off topic, but when someone puts an idea in your head and you disagree with it, it's that idea is still there and then you sit on it and you mull over unless you're a cunt, right? like >> every every so you guys said or are now said by proxy you are sad if you want to be sad even though you think you're happy right I said when I'm I'm I'm I'm always happy I said

>> Mhm. >> It's a blanket statement. It's obviously not true but conceptually roughly true. And I said I want to I sometimes look forward to being sad. Okay. >> Mhm. >> Right. And then you were like that's and I I knew it while I was saying it. That's obviously means you're you're you're not always happy cuz you're pining over a feeling >> something. >> Yeah. Right. Um and then I I I I thought about it less today. Less today. [laughter] It's less funny for everyone else, but yes, like I'm extremely nostalgic, right? Like like incredibly so. And that's why I record so much stuff. I love it's why that video with Albert in Manchester and and actually I do enjoy filming these shit videos which aren't good for anyone else but they take you back to that place right but when I'm nostalgic I'm I have I have two emotions at the same time I have extreme happiness and extreme sadness right >> and they're just they're just both there

and you're like fuck this thing was amazing like I loved this so much and I would love to be there again. And that's where the sadness happiness comes in, right? >> Yes. >> And I'm always like I get nostalgic for like almost in in the moment while it's happening, right? >> Um and I'm like I I know that this feeling will go, but I want to keep it somehow. And then I And then I get the um where the fuck am I here? Then I get the the like just life's fucking amazing, right? Like if you take a second somehow and you can click yourself into that when you realize like like even leaves falling off the off the fucking tree when they're dying doesn't make sense to me in in in the in the mentalness that is the world, right? Like the sun gives energy to the trees, the trees turn that energy into fucking fruit. The fruit eats the birds and then the spiders and then and then eventually it gets back into us because we eat fruit and animals and everything. So literally all life on

earth comes from the sun and and then I Yeah. And I just think like even we went through this monitors like how does a computer work and it's just it's it it is like a miracle even in the fucking van when I was saying how does voices work right and you guys and then right like if I think about a voice it blows my mind. So, so and when I get to that point, right, I have butterflies from excitement, from thinking about how good life is. Okay. But when I'm when I was like getting nostalgic, I was thinking, am I just really really sad in this moment? I was listening to Travis, right, from The Invisible Man. Um, it's like 2001, maybe. And then I was thinking about how much I loved my life at school. It was fucking amazing, right? And then I I got to like 16 and I I kissed a girl was first kiss 16 and I was like whoa like life's even better than I thought it was before. Anyway, the point here is every time I think back on my life in the past is the best time of my life

except for like a two-year period. >> Yeah. But isn't and maybe you would disagree and but isn't nostalgia um before it was always better. So in a sense is a a discomfort of not having the same as good as it was before. So if you know what I mean like if you if you are so so which which I I know you are because obviously all the old hammer and all these things are pure nostalgia.

[clears throat] Uh isn't it isn't it because it doesn't let you enjoy the present in in a way or this we are getting into fucking deep therapy. Nostalgia is another could actually be another meat of it. I've I've had a lot of thought about this as well. It seems to be a really I I experience it as a really big thing for like our generation. We're fucking obsessed with the way things were in the like late ' 80s and '90s. >> Yeah. But I I have nostalgia for um even our trip that we just had in Golden Demon.

>> Of course. Of course. >> Right. Yeah. Like so so yes, >> I don't know. Yes, you might do. I I just want to say maybe that's not quite nostalgia though. I guess we could look up like a dictionary definition, but I think >> it it I I personally wouldn't say that that's nostalgia >> from like a childhood or >> Yeah, exactly. or like a period in your life. And also I think there's a little bit to do with a little bit like Arnell saying that it's missing more of a concept and an idea and something when you just have a good feeling about a memory that's not necessarily nostalgia >> especially sentimental longing or wishful affection for a period in the past.

>> So I I agree with what you're saying though Martin. But yeah apparently definition-wise it's just something that happened in the past. I I think it's different the feeling when you have nostalgia for something and when you when you remember it fondly. Yeah, >> I do have nostalgia. For example, when when we used to play at Darkest Sphere, that that period, it gives me that feeling of of warmth, you know, of of it's it's almost unexplicable >> safe place. That was just great. >> But then >> I do have good memories of other games that I have with other people and I but it's not the same. It's the nostalgia is it's like a I don't know how to say it. It's more like a package of warmth and and instead of just the just the moment.

>> Yeah, that's me as well. Yeah, for sure. Nostalgia of a of a of a of a feeling specifically in a period of time that meant a lot that was a was a meaningful thing is is my nostalgia. Also, also I would argue that nostalgia is missing something, longing for something, remembering something that you definitely can't have again. You can have something similar interesting, >> but you can't have that thing. So, like the trip that we went to recently, we can do that again and hopefully will and it will be soon enough that we will be essentially the same people. I feel like it will turn into nostalgia when we talk about like oh you know remember when we used to go to Golden Demon in like 20 years from now. That's a difference for me when it's like a time in your life that you you actually can't have again.

I've thought that about that a lot with with kind of our like the little Swedish painting group when we used to hang out in the warmer store and paint together. Um, I'm very nostalgic for that. And it's it's also because you kind of you kind of remember not uh appreciating it as much as you should have at the time because at the time that was just life and then looking back at it now 10 years later, more than 10 years, you think, "Oh shit, that was actually really, really important and really formative and amazing and I can't have that again. That's not coming back the way it was. I can do similar things. I can sit and paint with Stan, but that thing isn't doesn't exist anymore. And that for me is nostalgia.

>> It's almost like reminiscence like where you're thinking back and but then even that's not you could do that. Yeah. No, I I get the concept and I kind of semi-aggree to an extent cuz most of these so so all right. Well, let's agree what we what how how we are defining it for now. Like in I get nostalgia for those things. I think back I used to walk to my girlfriends with a CD player, [clears throat] my second or first girlfriend, and I listen to those albums. And the walk was only like 15 minutes, but I fucking loved it cuz I got to listen to music on my thing without my mom shouting at me. Um, and then I also think I have nostalgia for things that happened more recently.

Less less intense, less longing because I know I'm going to get them again, but I still have nostalgia for that feeling and that situation. >> Yeah. So, I guess there's different different levels of nostalgia or or or how they work. Maybe [snorts] I Yeah. Well, the key point here was I felt sadness about nostalgia for not having it. So, there was sad and it put me in a slightly sad frame of mind, but I knew I wasn't sad, if that makes sense. It it it reminds me of that feeling. And that's kind of roughly what I was saying. I'm looking forward to being sad is those is to to feel those emotions rather than I'm looking forward to being depressed or something is not quite what I meant. Like I don't want a I don't want, you know, some sort of bad thing to happen. You know, I lose a finger or or um Poppy's ill or for a long time, you know, like a serious that's not the sadness I was pining over. Um, it was more like

>> being moved. >> Yeah, it's just nice to feel some it's you

feel emotions, right? And and I and I like that. >> Good shat. >> Yeah. Like and the painting feeling I've got is >> is I'm I'm I'm I'm looking forward to not being the person I was before. is that excitement that I've got now is painting this model made me think, "Oh, I can do something where I'm happy with it relatively quickly, like an afternoon to paint the helmet and the chest and all this. Um, and I'm not feeling how I did with the N&M restricted. I'm like I have to do this this way or I have to paint this model, aka not elder." Um, like so that's what I was happy with and and it was interesting to jump back to the old feelings where I got stuck and I was frustrated and I yeah I still don't I mean there's two ways I think I still not fully on board with um don't just don't and just paint it and get through it as in just

finish something that you're not happy with. I feel like it sort of semi-restricts improvement. you know, if I go, "Okay, look, it's shit. I know it's shit. Fuck it." Like, it's hard when it's a model that I'll keep in my cabinet, if that makes sense. It it depends on your level of dedication. So, I think it's important to have both projects that you you do for fun and then you enjoy and do as as the best you can and some projects where you say, "Okay, let's push this." and and you you you can do some step up because learning we we said this also many times learning is a staircase right it's it's not linear it's like you you go you learn a lot then you just get steady then you learn again and then you get steady so having those apps is also very important but but it's very demanding so if you do it all the time you get tired if you don't do it ever you will get tired as So you h you need both. You need the fun

and the uncomplicated thing just painting and also when you feel like it you also need the pushing because that will >> but but you need to you need to want it because if you don't it can break you. >> Yeah. Which is probably what similarly happened actually in that in that 2 or three year period I didn't ever have a relaxed state. I was always chasing the next improvement, right? But it's it's a it's a weird thing then. It's it's not that you don't when you get stuck, you stop. It's that you in between when you have these big jumps, you paint stuff that's in your comfort zone, basically is a better way of going around it. And then you do push yourself when you need to learn. I as in I I I find it hard to just say, "Okay, I'm painting this model. I haven't resolved it how I want to and then I'm just going to paint it as shit and leave it. But that's also possible. Maybe maybe it's just the project and you're not feeling it like you say you don't want to do it.

So you could just accept or be honest with yourself and be like you're not as motivated. But the trouble is I was very motivated to paint this model and I wasn't getting results. So I was getting annoyed. >> Annoyed is not the right word. I was >> I was just getting Yeah. like, okay, will I ever resolve this how I want to? >> And and I'm really excited to do stuff that I know I'm I'm enjoying, aka the armor and cloth and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah. Um, yeah,

good news. >> Yeah. So, that's the news, boys. Um, >> the news bit, >> right? New. Where did I put the thing? That doodly boodley. This has basically been a Jamie episode. >> Well, yeah. It is. Can I get that sh >> There's been a a slight focus on your mental state, >> but yeah, that's way. >> The news was >> It does. Yeah. The the news was actually a a big um a big news for you. painting.

It's like after six six years. >> Well, but yes, this is true. This is true. This is pivotal moment. >> I agree with that. Comparatively, I haven't painted anything in the last week. Uh I feel like we recorded yesterday. I've done nothing. Just >> me neither. I've been sick and >> Yeah, there you go. Or not been sick. Fuck. Are we going to talk about? >> Well, that is news. I I I I just sort of I'm shocked that that shit camera was just a thumb print. Oh, now try and clean yours. Yeah, I was thinking, could you imagine if my camera was just shit because of that? >> Just literally just a little rub and now it's HD and I'm like, >> wow.

>> Repair yourself. >> I'm I'm [laughter] worse. >> Just the same. >> I know. >> It's the same. >> Yeah, it's marginally better. >> It's literally the same. No. >> Wow. >> Maybe even worse, I would say. [laughter] >> Uh, okay. Okay. So, what what what Okay. You ready? You ready? All right. Okay. Hold on. Oh shit. I didn't favorite it. Hold on. Don't move. What did I even call it? There you go. >> Has musings.

>> It's a new jingle. >> It's musings. It's things you hate. >> No, the musings of hut. Musings. It's like mused muse. It's where you um It's not anecdotal. It's where you just slightly reflect or talk about something. Uh that's like I would muse about how the weather is always bad in April. >> It's like um it's Yeah, I could just get the fucking definition. It'll tell you a lot better and a lot more concisely muse. >> No, if you if you give us your example, then we will understand it. >> Oh, it's a band that is very um Yeah.

Well, yeah, there you go. in English. In Greek, each of the nine goddesses a person or personified force who is the force of inspiration for a creative artist. >> I need to find the real one. That's not it. >> Absorbed in thought, musing. He was musing on the problem he faced. So, it's it's it's Yeah, I think my I think my thing was okay. The original >> God damn, that's a good webcam. Right. So, that's the Hut's musing is Things I Learned. I realized it's not quite things I learned anymore.

It's musings. Okay. It's basically Jamie's diary but without a story and without Right. So, okay. The quite deep. I know I'm addicted to like sweets, cakes, and chocolate. Okay. I know. Like, I know I'm addicted. I'm definitely definitely addicted, but I don't know it. Right. Mhm. We can dive in. Oh shit. I don't know if anybody voted on that. Anyway, I used to walk with my little toes. Uh I didn't realize it for my whole life and now I and not the big one. And now I've like I learned about like eight years ago to walk with my big toe.

>> Um >> Okay. >> That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. It fucked me up. >> It fucked me up actually. Um I think cuz I was right. I'm still not washing my armpits with deodorant as well, which actually led on to something else. Really good. >> No, you are using deodorant. You're just not washing them with soap. >> Soap. There you go. Thanks, mate. >> Um, >> didn't sound right. >> So, none of these are model related. I'm surprised by [laughter] >> you are a little bit. I didn't realize I hadn't reread them when I went through, but they were just my musings. I think we should I'll try and bring them back to modeling. All right. Um, yeah. Okay.

by not programming on the stats website. Oh, this is this is actually interesting if the others weren't. So, every like my whole life normally I have a project a program web program or something, right? That I'm I'm and so I've never been bored because they're always in so engrossing, so enveloping that I'm excited to do them and I just do them. But now I'm not doing them, right? I I couldn't give a shit about the TTS stuff. So, I've got no hobby. Um, and um, I've been trying not to paint when it's dark because my eyes get tired and in the end I did. But I realized if I don't have that, I don't know what the fuck to do with my life and I feel very bored and uh, it's just weird. But now I've replaced that with painting. So, I'm quite happy about that. Um, I had to wear a jumper cuz my t-shirt was too dirty.

>> Right. >> It fell apart because of washing it for like 70 days. No, it was a work meeting and I I like my kid had had banana at night so it was just filthy and I had to wear a jumper. I was like, "Shit, it looks bad on camera." Um, and uh, our real doctor's annoyed that Dr. Dre gets to use the doctor title, but he has no doctrine. And that was Hut's Musings. Let me know guys, not you two. Go on.

I was going to ask is the is this something that the the listeners will vote on and then we do deep dives into. >> Yeah, but I I I mean you maybe we could just do you guys get to ask one if you want to deep dive into any of them. Um >> definitely not the last one. >> The doctors. Yeah, Dr. Dre. >> Right. So, uh what would it be? Uh podcast features a race car. Yeah, we got like one vote or two votes. Okay. from last week. The standard is much higher than I realized. That's what the people want to dive into.

>> Um >> the standard of Golden Demon. >> The standard of Golden Demon is much higher than you realized. >> No, Martin and Albert. >> Ah, but I think >> Oh, you don't give us enough uh credit as painters. >> I just thought that was a nice throwaway thing to say. >> Yeah. Well, I think we did dive into it actually. >> Yeah, we did actually. I thought cuz cuz you asked you asked us if we were and I I was like, "Huh?" And then we did actually dive into that last week. >> Okay, one second. >> I told you an anecdote about the girl, >> right? Hold on. Okay. And then the the other one they voted was um people more people like Darren's rule than I realized,

>> um so anybody who doesn't know that's Darren Leam, the I guess he's a sculptor now at Gameswer. Yeah. So he's the world famous um >> elder painter sculptor. Um, and the rule I disagree with, um, like wholeheartedly, like to my soul core, is that you, and and so we had discussions with some people at Golden Demon. I I don't know when I brought it up or someone brought it up, but, um, the rule change was basically that uh, you can't you have to have sculpted your own sculpt, right, in any category. So, every category now, you have to have sculpted it yourself, otherwise you can't enter it. The first thing, okay, just before we go into it, because we, this is an open conversation, um, I think it's mental that you're allowed to use GW sculpts, sculpted by other people, but you're not allowed to sculpt by someone else. So, that's the first thing that doesn't make sense to me.

Now, my my I'm going to do both what I think. Okay, my my reason why I think it's bad, exclude that. That was just me being petty. um is it limits creativity is my belief happy to change it and I believe on the other side of things uh the reason why it's a good rule uh is that it stops people buying their wins aka one of the world's best painters who isn't who can't sculpt could pay who knows what a sculptor a lot of money to sculpt them a fantastic piece that's unique and will let them show their best painting right >> I disagree with that.

>> Well, yes. So do I. But that was the argument. Um >> that was the argument that um I mean Martin, you were there when we had the conversation, right? And um and so was Andy and so was Albert. So So these were the they were it was us five that and that was where and you Martin and the other people who agree. So yes, we we agree and I'm happy to agree to disagree >> but but we we haven't gone into this >> actually. Yeah. >> Far yet, right? We haven't dived into it. We had the we had the conversation maybe five minutes and Albert and now so >> it it's I I think it's a relevant uh discussion to have. I do think um there's I I can also see both sides if I'm honest. M um I think there were so the term buying your wins sounds very harsh and I think it was Andy or someone who made that point with a specific model that it was like this model won more than the paint job and it was really

impressive and it was done by a sculptor that wasn't TWW. Like I I can kind of see that. I I don't know if I >> mentioned Aro's um the piece in open. Do you think I I think it's a little unfair to to David Robba to say that like he didn't do an amazing job with that orc and that he couldn't have won with something else. Um, but I think uh there is something to be said for what how striking that model is and there's there's also the fact that like so basically the argument is that like oh but you know the model doesn't matter unless you paint it really well but like that if that was true then people wouldn't convert as much as they do and build a cool basis that they do. The judges can't not see cool sculptures.

That's not how it works. So, if someone has something completely unique that they or anyone else has sculpted that just a model that no one's seen before, then that's going to be really striking. If I was a judge, I would notice that like of course I would. Um, and then if I if I was a judge and I knew that anyone's allowed to bring anything that anyone has done, then yeah, I might end up choosing those models that have been sculpted by professional sculptors and not uh by the painters themselves. >> For the wow factor, right? Like >> for the Yeah, for the wow factor. And if that if that then counts as like, oh, that person just bought their win. I mean, that's maybe selling them a bit short, but there is something to that. I I think um there's to me the problem is really kind of the bigger discussion of like what are you allowed to do and not do in a more technical like minutia sense of like like some entries we know got disqualified over the last couple of years for things that to me doesn't seem like a huge deal like something that

breaks the competition. >> Yeah. >> Um I mean that >> to me is a bigger issue. It actually they're the same issue in my opinion. Those micro like they're one and the same. They're they're coins from the same cloth like banning stuff that it was um marginally recast or or um scanned and then printed. And I disagree like I disagree with it. I mean we're lucky to have the competition in the first place. So that's I guess what I would say. And and if you have to have these rules so we have the competition fine. I won't even I don't even think it's worth like technically discussing it from a should it be or shouldn't it be but I think it's okay to discuss why we don't like it or do like it if that makes sense. If you have to have a rule and the reason it's there is to justify to the business and they won't get scared, then have that rule aka no recasting, no blah blah blah because the company is scared that people will know that something they promoted was recast and that sends a bad public image out like like fine. I

disagree with the sentiment but I understand from their perspective if you understand what I mean. >> Yeah. >> And I don't think that this rule is in that in that realm. I think this rule was put in to give people who can sculpt an advantage over people who can't sculpt. But again on like you say m I also agree um on your on the concepts roughly that you know you will it's a wow factor isn't it? >> But that's the whole point. >> Yeah and that's the whole point exactly. I mean my my my point is so what it's the whole the whole point of doing a a different sculpt is to to be better >> and the the thing is it was in open competition and if it was >> the the open competition is the leftovers is where nobody really cares because it's the the open competition.

So I I I could understand if it's not in the rest of the of the Holen Demon, but in open which is it's literally the competition where you can do whatever you fucking want. I >> think some of the criticism and like why we call why I think Jamie called it Darren's rule or whatever is like Darren is one of those people who likes to see uh someone rewarded because they can both sculpt and paint. So like Tom Hughes or UGG did this towel bust which is >> but also he is competing against a lot less people >> and a lot less interesting pieces.

>> Yeah. I'm just saying like again to to sort of explain that argument is that there are people entering the open competition who have sculpted and painted >> from scratch and that they I I think some some people might think that they're being unfairly then put up against people who where two people have done the same work as one person that it should only be the point isn't so much that it's scratch built by anyone is that the point is that it's it's all done by one person so every entry is just one person I That's kind of the official argument.

>> Yeah. And so my main and that is the main problem with it, right? Is it it's that that concept is at its core the reason why it's it's it's really bad is the way I see it because [snorts] open is meant to be creative. Okay. Its whole core purpose was you can do anything you want, right? You can do anything. Like you had the staff that won back in in whatever it was 98 97, right? Or Yeah. Okay. 99. And and by by limiting this you are out you're openly saying we only want people who do this. We don't want this which is anything we we we're limiting it and we don't really care about that. That that's my that's why I think it goes against the open. create another category called I did it my fucking self basically like rather than ruin open >> is is the way I see it because open was the only chance >> yeah go on >> no go ahead go ahead >> well I was going to say open was the

only place we got to see completely scratchu built fucking mental things right in the past you could do fully scratch built in in your own category and they stopped it fine >> so so now we won't see a robber palace or whatever for not him specifically, but that kind of piece. >> Yeah. >> And I think that's for me that's really sad cuz that was just as an art piece I thought it was brilliant. >> Yeah, it is. Yeah. Sorry. Ultimately that that is a very sad thing is that if we don't get to see those pieces at all, that's sad.

I mean almost objectively I think that's the case. But then the the whole rules of Golden Demon is a different topic. Sorry. Go ahead. Oh no. It's like we are sacrificing um the creativity and uh and uh the outcome of a of the of that little category for for the [snorts] it's not the egos but the the merit. Merit is it is that a word?

>> It's a real word. Yeah. like the the >> it's the merit is so important that that it's so it's so much more important than the the outcome than the actual pieces is it is it for me it was never like that for me it it's there are two pieces two actual physical pieces which one it's better is this one or this one is the merit of doing it with one hand tied your back behind your back and doing back flips is it better because of that it's not right. So, if it's better done with five people, this fucking this piece is the the the absolute fucking best the world has ever uh produced. It is. So, is is the merit of someone doing it themselves so important that we are sacrificing everything else that will come if we if we team up?

>> In my opinion, is so stupid. But it depends obviously in how much do you value the the merit of doing something. >> Yeah. And this a lot of the criticism came from people who did enter the open category themselves. So obviously they become like very personally invested. For me personally, again, I I would actually be really fine if it went completely the opposite direction and they said, "Fuck it. be four people, 10 people on one entry because it would actually if we're going along the lines of what you're saying, what both of you are saying with like uh restricting creativity, if you want to then like spur creativity, make it even more interesting and more open, that would be I would be really curious to see what that looks like. If next year it's like, oh, actually, we're going to go ahead and open this up completely. Do whatever you want. Make a make a get a team of people, work on a diarama together. I mean, that would be funny.

>> It occurred to me when I was Yeah. Right. It occurred to me with with the um that White Dwarf 500 celebration thingy where a bunch of heavy metal painters did some diuramas and they were really awesome. And like Drew being crazy did this Cadian diarama all by himself. That would have been a good open entry. But then some of the other guys did a Lethis Citizma entry. Not entry, uh just a piece of diorama. And that was like four people working together. I think Tom Ambrose was like sort of steering that project, but then other people contributed. And I thought, that's cool. That's kind of cool. What if I had an idea like that for for the open competition >> where I just wanted to build something kind of big and complex. And I thought, actually, it'd be really good if I could get someone to do this conversion cuz I can't do it. Or if Steen and I could paint half of it together cuz then it'll take half as much time. Like that.

[laughter] That would be cool to see. I would enjoy that. I would enjoy working on something like that and I would especially love to see that. So yeah, I I think >> the down for me personally, I would really be fine with opening it up. I >> if if we [snorts] would ask Yeah. Do would you like to see another another category with free for all? Everyone can do whatever if you would like to see it. >> That's open. >> Exactly. >> That's what that's what open is. >> Yeah. Like there's two parts I I agree with. No two winners can win. As in if you split, there should only be one winner, right? So, >> so all the categories we've got now, I think you shouldn't have a single miniature with five painters. But I know we're not saying that, right? Um and then yeah, have like open or another category which is just mad creativity that and then that's what you do. Or or if you want to limit that, have a have the category where you do it all yourself basically. Don't I think it's overall I think it's a bad idea to limit it because it now means Juan can't sculpt me an elder model that I can use in Golden Demon.

>> But it's him sculpting me that is no different from a GW. >> You're painting a sculpt a sculpt that he already has done. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. Especially that example is like he's done a bunch of Lar sculpts anyway and it's just one that isn't official. >> Yeah. And uh and you can even paint unreleased models, I guess, probably. I I mean, there's no rule on that that you can't, but it was never released, but it was sculpted by and while they were employed anyway. Um and I also think that the the rule change. I agree with the concept though that it does give you an I wouldn't say it's unfair, but it does give you an advantage. I do agree with that. Aroa had an had an advantage by him having that sculpted over somebody who didn't have that sculptor sculpt. Sorry. Um it's an advantage slightly, right? It's a better piece. It looks and a piece of art, but I I think that as you say are now it's ego or whatever you want to call it coming into play there more than it's a case of I me as an individual has less chance to win now because I don't have

five grand to pay for a sculpt rather than this is the best piece. So it makes sense that you or I from the outside are are more pro the better artwork >> because we just want to see that again. This argument could be done with many things like I don't I don't have people who pay me for painting Warhammer. I don't have 100 million hours to dedicate because I have a family. I've heard that I've heard that argument as well where where actual uh advantage what that actually means and that sort of unfair uh advantage because you could argue I know a lot of people had opinions when Max entered the barbarian guy from Silver Tower which he he painted the box art and then he did one for himself for Golden Demon >> and he entered in Golden Demon and I think Golden Demon that year was like this the weekend that Silver Tower went up on pre-order. or a week before. So, it had all been announced, but no one could actually buy it, which I thought was really cool. That was like a fun way to to promote the game, if anything. But then some people were like, "No, but he

he entered a model that's unreleased, which technically they shouldn't do." And it's like, "Yeah, no, it's true. It's true. He's the only person who can enter that. Like, no one else can. Other people in the studio could, but that's it's I couldn't do that." >> Um, >> just being though. That's that's the counter. >> Yeah, exactly. It's like but then I you win automatically if you have the same meaning. >> Exactly. Exactly. And also like I mean if we want to talk about what you can and cannot do. I can't really paint uh like Albert. I can't build the stuff that he's building.

>> Yes. Most people would agree that's a fair advantage. That's not >> it hasn't he? Yeah. He but it is an advantage. >> But it is an advantage is an advantage. >> A completely level playing field is weird. But it's also it's also an earned advantage that you have 5K and you can pay in a sculpture like you have saved for it. You have worked for it. So why is this not an advantage that I won by myself, you know? >> If if you want to spend 5K just save them, >> you know. So I I feel like it's just an arbitrary uh wall where this is just Yeah, you have 5K and I don't. No, that doesn't work like that. we all can do stuff, you know.

>> It's it's interesting cuz cuz I only know it's Darren's rule because he publicized it, right? I don't actually know who who came up with it. Um and it the timing was interesting that after Manchester, the rule came out and Darren lost to, you know, he got lost, he got silver. It's you're not losing, you're just not getting first place. Well, I suppose depends your perception on what you're going for, but um so that's why I assume he did it. I I I've not heard if he explicitly wrote it, but >> he was very critical of of of the rule before the rules changed and then he was quite happy when it did. So yeah, I I know he was quite vocal about it, but I know other people felt the same way and then other people again felt the way kind of we're talking now where >> you basically went to Golden Demon, you saw David Roa's piece, you saw a bunch of other things and thought cool.

>> Yeah. >> And that's it. >> Yeah. >> And you never really thought oh wait a minute, where did he get that? You know. Yeah, I mean that's the thing though. We Anyway, we I guess we've done it now. We we we have we have deep dived into that. Yeah. I I I um I want to I want to just see cool shit and and now I'm back painting. Um obviously I'm like it also had another cool realization that um I won't win. I don't think I can win a Golden Demon in in in the and I'm okay with it. I still want to enter and push myself. But in the past when I first entered 2016, I I truly believed I'll win something. I was like, and obviously we've been through this. You go back, the the model was shit. And then the next two years, I was I was hopeful. But now I think I can be a bit more relaxed. Put as much as I can in and try and get like if I got a silver, that would be a very good achievement for me. Um, so I think I have a >> silver demon.

>> No, a silver pin. >> Oh, a pin. Yeah. >> Fuck me. If I get that's a win. If I get very good at >> bronze just for losers. >> Silver or nothing. I'm sick of it. Fucking bronze make me sick. Right. Um

Okay. Now we we we to be honest, this is a long episode, but do you I the new segment. Okay. One of the new segments. >> Mhm. >> Okay. One of them is pretty good. I haven't got a jingle yet. Things I love. >> Oh, wow. >> Fucking hell. Little less controversial. People like people watch the news, which blows my mind that anybody would watch the news, but it's all negative and people still watch it. You don't see the news talking about happy scrolls or, you know, a dad congratulated his child on an A star. It just wouldn't make the news. It's somebody got stabbed, somebody got So anyway, I thought I'd I'd balance it out. So, you you ready for what I love? Mhm.

>> It's a lot easier to find things I love, by the way. Um, >> imagine >> drawers that can't be slammed. >> I fucking love them. >> Doors that can be slammed. >> Drawers or doors. Yeah. You closing >> and then they go >> Christ. I love that. >> I agree. >> Same as to as toilet seats that go out. That's when I go >> when I go to my parents and it doesn't uh [clears throat] lower. It's it's I'm leaving it like slam all the time and I hate it so much.

>> Do you know what I do? I forget situation. >> It's really It's really incredible. Like I I there's sometimes I see things and I hear things where I'm like, "Fuck, we have evolved beyond Star Trek." >> That's great. That's what I'm saying. >> And that's the kind of shit. >> Yeah. Like on one hand it's the whenever NASA says anything about anything I'm like how the fuck do you know that? >> I trust you to know that but it's insane that you found out anything about Saturn. Like they describe oh we found a type of >> you know there's less helium on like Jupiter than we thought. Like how the fuck do you know that? How could you possibly have any inkling of and then the other thing is the slow toilet seat.

It's like wow. Wow. It is just equally as impressive. >> Yeah. Oh yeah for sure. to be honest. >> And by the way, the the the the ship alien ship changed course >> color. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> We are we are living >> losers >> in a mental I'm still convinced it's a real alien. I tell you one thing I am really happy about cuz I I genuinely don't think it is an alien. Um but one thing I am really happy about, I know I flip-flop there, but but I really don't think it's an alien. But the fact that I always assumed when an alien ship was coming, it would be covered up by everything. Like government wouldn't let that out. It disproves like religion and all the like the the ramifications of it are quite like strong. Um >> Oh, but that's very movie like. I always thought it would be the opposite.

>> I just sort of thought like if there's a a meteorite going to come and kill the earth. I also didn't think it would get out because the general Well, yeah. I mean, I'm proved wrong, right? This has been all over the news constantly. Um, well, I actually have no idea, but it's in my >> Yeah, because every telescope, like big big telescopes, they can see it. So, >> yeah. Well, it's pretty cool either way. And the concept that it might even be it could just be a scout alien and then he's fucking off. I still I still Anyway, um, the other new segment, right? You ready for it? >> Yes.

>> Okay. I haven't thought of a name, [snorts] so I need to think of the name, right? But it's a good segment for a jingle. >> Yeah, I know I've let you down. It's English sayings. Okay. And I'll tell you it and you have to work out what it is. >> Okay. >> All right. I I've got All right. I've got like I've got like a jingle like in my head ready for this. >> So the this this week. Okay. Do you want to Do you want to mull on it over a week and then let me know next week or do you just want to try and get it now and I just tell you?

>> Yeah. All right. Fucking hell. Yeah. [snorts] >> It's cuz I haven't done GR busters this week. Um, Dustman's handkerchief. Duskman's >> Dustman like someone who on the street. A Dustman's handkerchief. Must be dy as fuck. >> No, go ahead. I mean, explain it. >> It's basically, you've seen me do it many times. Is where you just do this on the street and then go and all the snot comes out on the street. That's a dustman's handkerchief.

>> It's a dustman's handkerchief >> cuz they won't have handkerchiefs, so they just twat it on the floor. >> So now we understand the game. You say you use a saying. Did you make this up or did you uh >> Yeah, I just I was in the shower and I was or I was on the street doing a dustmous handkerchief and I was like, I wonder if these foreign weirdos would know what that is. >> And then did you invent the term dus handkerchief? >> No. No. It's a well-known anybody English. >> It is a wellness. It's not. >> It would be funny if we if we did it as well with our languages and just translate it to English. >> Yeah, I've heard there's some [clears throat] absolutely ridiculous Spanish things, but I I can probably think of some in Swedish as well.

>> Yeah, Spanish have some outrage. German's got some weird weird ones. The thing is >> normally they just don't work, right? Like the the the the saying doesn't work. Whereas these things aren't so much Well, I'm hoping that I can come up with enough to make it interesting, but they're more like small things. I mean, cock I've got cockney rhyming slang for days, but it's not the same as um you know, like >> just an easy one. A frog and toad. >> Frog and toad. >> Yeah, it rhymes.

>> Road >> rhymes. >> Yeah, >> just like that. >> Well, it's you say I'm just I'm just going down the frog and toad. Um >> Okay. And then you'd be like, >> "No, you just, no, we could do that later." We we I mean, we're already at 1 hour 30. So, >> when you say, "I'm going down the Froggen Toad," it's something road. >> It just means road. It literally just means road. >> Yeah. It just means down the road. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's um Yeah. Yeah. Basically, there's loads. I mean, there's there's it's a whole thing, right?

>> I don't know why the Cockney ever came up with it. I guess so the police wouldn't understand assuming that no police officer was a cocknney. >> English is the most interesting, diverse, and worst language in the world. >> What would uh how would you describe Cognney? >> Cocknney is like me but times two or three. Oh, a person. >> That's not a good definition. Yeah, >> it's a person, is it? It's a fucking geyzer. He's a white lad. He's a workingass lad. Yeah. and he works down he'd work down in the fucking shipyard freight selling fucking fruit on the stall like he's a proper geyzer in he's got gold chains normally couple of rings um >> is that the is that the definition you were after are now >> it's it's like the evolution like like a Pokemon evolution of a chaff [snorts] >> chor more modern >> yeah chavs have no morale they'll leech off you'll they'll they're just general lay layabouts, right? A cocknney geyser

is still an upstanding geyser. He's still a he'll he he he might shift some dodgy stuff stolen off the back of a company, but he won't rob you, >> right? Okay. >> He'll fucking he'll lay you out if you're wrong. He will always stick it up for like any woman or child. He'll be like, "That's bang order." And he'll fuck you up for it. >> Um but he's a chab is just a despicable human, right? a cocknizer won't ever pay taxes and he won't steal from the poor but you know he's but he's still a little bit like you know he's probably just a working-class lad I as well like plumber a builder but like a proper cockney gizer is I mean I grew up with loads of cocknney which is weird cuz I lived in north London but um >> that's doesn't sound weird at all >> east London's normally where cocknney were and and it was you wouldn't you I was born 85 cockney were probably dead.

They weren't being born anymore. >> Yeah. >> By 2000, right? Like it's Yeah. I >> was going to say it sounds more also also wouldn't you say that like chav is a bit more modern and cocky is quite old and not really >> you would you a cocknney is still a nice person. A chav is just not a nice person, right? They'll do drugs. They'll probably steal a bike from your front garden without giving a shit. like a chav is just you are right though there's a line I I guess chav is a modern version of a cockney >> tench but also cockney is very London and a chav is all over the UK >> true >> I always understood like cockney is a bit is more a bit more grown up and chavs are more like >> no no or >> there's a difference cuz a cockney lad a cockney young person would still be >> nice upstanding Like you could trust a Cockney guy with your family. You take your kids out, right? And I like my I don't know why the block of flats we

lived in had a caretaker. He was a he was a Cockney geyzer and we would just go around and fuck around in his garden and stuff and he'd be like, "Right, go on, get out of there, lads. Where the fuck it's fuck?" And then he'd tell you, "There's loads of shit there." And you go, "Play in that garden like they're dead or something." And then you'll be like, "Yeah, okay. Quality." Um and they like Yeah. You they're part of the community almost. The cocknney gies. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I think I understand >> a chav >> he'd sooner stab you and take your phone than you know they and they're weak. They're not going to have a fight.

They've got no backbone chavs. Do you know what I mean? It's not true. Some of them will probably chabs >> I like cocknney. I don't like chavs. What the the the the easiest I think for a foreigner the easiest way to clock a like what you what you might think is a proper cockney and we're probably wrong about that 90% of the time anyway it's like a London black cab driver >> very true >> if you meet someone and they have what what you and they sound very much like they're from London which again interpretation but if you think this person is obviously from London >> that's your that's your cock exactly is London whereas everywhere And including the fact in including the fact that black cab drivers are are are fucking professional >> at driving cabs. I've googled it. Okay.

Cocknney meaning an in origin. Cockney refers to a person from East London. Traditionally find is born in earshot of Bose bell. It's just whatever. Giza is a slang term for a UK man. Not necessarily old. um stereotype. Cockniki is often referred to as territorial figure who is tough, charismatic, street wise, embodying lovable rogue. So I think I fucking got that right. >> Yeah, that right. Yeah. >> And a diamond gizer is is a positive term meaning particularly reliable, trustworthy and special person, but not to the law. Um and old interestingly are now.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Um, so yes, [clears throat] there you go. Um, >> Adam and Eve. There you go. Cognney rhyming slang. >> Adam and Adam and Eve. Uh, >> Adam and Eve. >> It But it rhymes with an English word. >> Yeah. >> You wouldn't Adam and Eve it. >> Leave it. >> You wouldn't Adam and Eve it. >> Is it leave? >> Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve. Oh, sorry.

You're fucked. I thought you thought I was [laughter] >> No, it's not leave. It's close. No, it begins with B. >> You wouldn't Adam and Eve it. >> Believe. >> Yeah, believe it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Adam and Eve believe. That is some bullshit. That makes [laughter] no sense. >> Um, quite funny though. >> Uh, thank you all for joining. That is the most bamboo stick mental episode I think we've ever recorded.

>> Yeah. Come back later for Task Masters and everything else we actually wanted to do. >> Task Masters. >> Oh, fuck. >> It's just It's just a second I'll take it over, mate. >> Just announce which model we're doing and which like >> it's annoying that we are doing it at the end of the episode, but >> I'll cut it. I won't. [clears throat] >> Maybe we could do it at the the next one if you want. >> Yeah. Or we could just do a fucking short on it. I for a YouTube show. >> No, but it has to be in an episode. >> Let's do it now quick because it's the start of the month.

>> Okay, let's do it now. And then >> No, no, no. What we will do is the task masters will become the road to Golden Demon, right? Because then while the task master is is uh ongoing, we will talk each each week about what we're doing, right? >> Yeah. So we we set it up now and then next week we we review on what we have done. So this week well we we do have a taskmaster jingle. Oh fuck. Hold on. >> You have let you already let go.

[laughter] >> Amy has checked out. >> I'm going to I'm going to pause it when I try and find the things. So Martin's face. I mean fuck it. No one's watching anyway. Right. Task masters. Hold on. Task masters. Get that fucking job done, mate. Task Masters. [snorts] >> You heard that before, Martin? >> No, I've never heard that one. >> I didn't pause it in the end. You never heard Taskm? Fucking hell. Let me play that one more time then. >> That's good. >> Cheers, mate. >> Get that fucking job done, mate. >> Task Masters.

>> That's it. Now, you're meant to talk. >> Yeah, that was far away now. >> You're the one doing the You're leading it. You're You are now I'm going to That's it. Yeah. You're in charge now. Task master. >> I am the task master. >> That's your cuz I've been trying to get you two to have your own fucking segments. You've not I've come up with 12 since then. Anyway, go on. [laughter] >> Well, yeah, that's true. >> Um, so we are going to usually we will do it like monthly, but this time we are going to set up the taskmaster period until Christmas, right? Mhm. >> Uh and the task will be to paint uh Kilakan in any way we want. Like we can do a sneak base, we can do a gaming base, we can do whatever we want.

There's literally no no freedom. That's the whole point of Taskmasters. Yeah. >> The Yeah, exactly. The whole point of Taskmasters is to make us do something. Uh we used to do we did one that was painting a hormagand. We did one that was painting 15 minutes a day for a week. We did one uh we wanted to do one that was >> yeah the model of the month or or just a base without a miniature. >> We will do all different kind of stuff. Um but we will start with this taskmaster plus which will be a bit more complex than because we are excited and we will try to show it uh by by Christmas and if some of us any of us don't do it you are allowed to publicly shame us and >> just say the ugliest things you can to us and our faces and our backs as well.

>> Yeah. Very go personal. Oh, go hard here. >> I um I'm interested. Oh, also for anybody who has to buy a pack of um kilans, I'll and you live like in the UK ideally or in Europe and it's cheap to I'll buy the other two off you cuz then I can use them for my orc army just so you know for the people out there. Um cuz I'm starting an or army. Uh I am excited by this one. I'm terrified again as well cuz I've ne like I've never painted vehicles that aren't perfect. I've always painted elder vehicles, right? And this is not going to be it's a fun and the the killer cans I wanted to paint are from second edition orcs which are basically dry dry brushed and then some free hand that's quite tight which I could do really easily. But this one I'm I'm I'm maybe I'll you finish in a week and I copy you. Um but it would >> I don't think you have a very very >> special project.

>> You have a what project? special. It's not [clears throat] a typical thing. >> I actually the more I I think about it, the more the more complex and interesting it becomes. And I'm like, "Yeah, this is becoming my life project now." And it's just a fucking task master, >> which is literally the point of task masters though, right? To get you out of your comfort zone and make you do stuff that you would never normally do, which is >> exactly I would never paint. Yeah. are now building a life-size or kill. [laughter] >> Yeah, right. >> No, but actually I'm just going to do a little spoiler, but I was planning this project, right, which is in a way. And then I I was thinking, okay, but if I could do the same project in in three different settings. So, and and my idea was to do the same project in three different which because I have three kilogans, right? And >> full creativity kicking in.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, should I? But then it's like >> on the same base would be fucking cool. >> Me maybe. >> I don't think I've not seen that. Like well in my head I've got autumn, summer, winter. That's all I've got in my head. So one base is snowy, one base is like autumny, and then you could do like a sunset in autumn and then >> it was it was along those lines, but also >> with with a goblin visiting the the kilakan and in different. So it was cool to do uh it would be good cool to do when he had just finished it when he just built his Kelican and then when he's been fighting through different battles.

Yeah. And he's [laughter] got a big beard and he's bit he's got an eye patch and he's a bit gritty hanging out of his kill cam for the last one. He's had to do repairs and shit. That's good. That's very good. >> Suppose there's three. >> I'm not going to do three. I'm gonna do one. Well, this is where the one at >> this is what's going to be interesting about our um task masters now actually is the different directions that all three of us go. So, I do think that we should do whips to keep it up, but on a part of me also thinks we shouldn't do whips. Um I'm confused. What if we do whips between us and we talk about it and then the listeners just have the full reveal at the at the end? Let us know what you think in the Discord.

>> Um, >> and if you say you really want whips, we might not listen to you anyway. >> Yeah, I mean, we will do what the fuck we want, but it's good to know. >> No, we really will. >> Um, we're not here for them. They're here for us. Uh, that's that I prefer calling them stupid than saying that. Um, to be honest, that felt too real. Oh, do you know what? You know how I say I never have regrets? Interestingly, I've got a regret, right? >> Okay. >> Oh, Christ. What? >> At um and I thought about it like a few times and I'm like why? At the dinner I said would you rather get >> fucked or right? Do you remember when I said it?

>> Uh I think so. In the in the in the big dinner. >> Yeah. I didn't mean to say that. >> That was not what I'd planned to say at all. >> And then I was like >> that's how you were. >> Yeah. But this this was something that I I wasn't embarrassed by it, right? But I was shocked by it. Like I was like, and that's something like it's not a big deal. I've said I've said worse stuff that I meant to, right? This whole thing about controlling embarrassment. Like I would talk about my ball surgery and you used to have a big nut. Like on paper you'd be like that's more embarrassing.

But it's not cuz I'm not embarrassed about it. Whereas this thing I didn't mean to say and it embarrassed me. It didn't embarrass me, but I I wish I hadn't said it. >> I get what you're saying. If something comes out and you're not then you didn't intend to. Of course you're going to feel like whoa. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it was such a it was like don't get me wrong there questions that I have in my head >> and sometimes in a car I would say it to you guys but not in a table with 25 people. >> I didn't care about the kid. That wasn't the embarrassing part. It's just not a it I have my own limits where that is something that I wouldn't want to say in that situation because there's no there's there's no answer really.

>> So yes. >> Oh that's fair. That's >> it is worthwhile. It's worth for our listeners knowing that there are things that Jamie will not say. >> That's why I'm saying it like that and and that came out and I I I don't wish I didn't say it. I'm not like deep regret, but I'm like, you know, that's probably something that I would have rather not said >> basically. >> Um and I wanted you guys to know that >> only you guys know cuz that wasn't in the recording, was it? >> No. >> Yeah. No, I think if I left that in that would be I would edit that out basically. Um, but yeah, there you go. Some more insight. So, so thanks boys.

>> Thank you. What's the name? >> We have a Discord.