Post Monte 2025 + painting breakthrough for Arnau

matters. >> I'm getting good at that. Welcome everybody. The 14th episode of season 3. Me, Jamie Hut, Mishaw are now, and Mr. Peterson. Hello. >> Three amigos. Um, forever. We should learn that in Spanish. >> Doss. >> What could three amigos be in Spanish? >> I need to look that up. I need to Google it. Isn't Amigos Spanish? >> What? >> Sorry. >> Amigos is Spanish. Yeah, >> that was a joke.

>> Oh, >> yes. What? Say the word three in Spanish. >> Benjam. >> Uh, three is not a word in Spanish. >> Three. >> Yeah. >> Well, I wanted to keep these intros tight now, so I've got it. Okay. cuz um so today's episode right Monty obviously the meat of it is does Monty inspire creativity? >> Okay. Yeah. We've got >> not much to add here I have.

>> Well that's the meat of it. We'll get in there when we get there. We've obviously got >> Grotbusters. Yeah. We've got um Dr. Lovejoy. Oh, we got a we got a fucking phone call. One sec. Yes. Dr. Love, what is it? Love Brush, right? And then I think Brush. So, we got a lot of them, which is great. We've also got um my fastest race car, possibly >> Taskmasters. To be honest, it's an action-packed episode. I think we're going to struggle to fit it all in as always.

Yes, indeed. Um which means I've covered the boring shit that everyone wants to hear, and now I can jump into um up like how have you been? But I'll start obviously. Um yeah, I got a new mic arm and it appears to be the Rolls-Royce of mic arms. It's so good, right? That the side like the little fucking things to access the Allen keys are magnetic. >> She sleek. >> That is good. And >> but you weren't very happy with the other arm.

>> No, it was it was it was dominating our now. It was it was brutal. It sat just here, right? Just so that and it was in my like cuz it was so tall. It was up whereas this one is flat on the desk and I can Anyway, I'm very happy with it. So, I just thought I'd tell everyone that. Oh, we've also got a new segment. Thought of the day. Thought of the day. >> Yeah. Or thought of the week is fine. Basically, just a random thought I had during the week that requires discussion. There's no jingle yet. I'll be honest. I really need to fix this mic issue I've got. Um because I can't record any jingles at the moment.

>> What? >> I know. It's why none of this podcast right there. >> I mean, you laugh, but I agree. Like what? That's the only reason why I'm doing it. >> Okay. >> I'm I'm jingle first to be honest. >> Yeah. Yeah, we are second. Yeah, definitely. >> And and Anna, didn't you have an idea for a segment? Done it yet? >> Why not? me. >> No, I know. I might have said mine, but >> Oh, no. Arnow did have an idea for a second. You said >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't even I I Yeah, I have not started yet, but I mean, I've been very busy.

>> Just Yeah, it's convenient. I mean, you're only as busy as you want to be. >> Yes. Or as your past self made you to be. >> I see. >> My past self was an idiot. I hear a lot of people say, "Oh, my tomorrow me will worry about that." >> Yeah, that was me. >> Yeah, that's good. I mean, that's my life to be honest. I just don't articulate. It's very closely linked with it will always work out and it is it's kind of on the same is much more. So, interestingly, right, I was with Jason Valjon. Okay. And Monty. We can get into the Monty, right? And I said, as I've gotten older, my standards for women has just plummeted. Like I'll do I'll do anything. Obviously I'm married or happily married so I can't do anything.

>> But I would do anything >> hypothetically. >> Exactly. I'll do like and he was like yeah no actually I think I appreciate beauty more. And I was like she I uh I was very impressed by that statement. And I feel like that's the difference between everything works out versus what was the thing you said? >> Uh, let tomorrow Jamie worry about it. >> Yeah. That to me is really unromantic and just cheap. Whereas everything works out as a bit like philosophical. And what Jason there is he turned that round and he made my sentence seem degrading and cheap >> versus his version where he sees beauty and everything. However, >> yeah, he he did say that. But it's true that you uh when you say everything will work out, there's a real insane optimism in it. And when you say I'll let tomorrow me worry about that, it's like crazy shit.

>> I struggle to see the the the the link between the two between your analogy. >> Uh Martin, do you want to do you want to chastise him? >> Or should I? Wait, you're saying the link between Jason's comment and this everything will work out. >> Yeah. >> Uh well, yes, we're not living that anecdote tomorrow. >> That anecdote had just had to do with the with the fact that Jason was able to dress up what uh what Jamie said, much like saying, "I'll let tomorrow worry about my actual huge problems as opposed to like everything will work out." >> That's that's how confident I was.

Honestly, like when if you put if you put everything will work out on a t-shirt, >> it's just a good motto. >> Yeah, it is. >> Like that, but it's a good motto. >> Really matters. >> Money matters. Everything will work out. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's a bit It's a bit like >> a segment that is that it's that >> what people people email in um sad stories of of of situations where it did work out. >> Yeah. and they they tell it to you and then you just say it always it will always work out and then that's it.

That's the whole segment. >> We couldn't really offer the worst possible therapy in this podcast if people just tell us their very real problems and we'll go look everything was just going to work out. >> Don't you worry fine, >> right? It'll work out. Yeah. There's a deeper meaning to it though. Like >> yeah, >> everything will work out isn't isn't just so interesting. Everything working out isn't just you can't just leave stuff. Don't get me wrong. It's not like I'm going to just, you know, I've got that debt that's or or this bill that needs paying. It's not that. >> It's a little bit of trust in yourself, right?

>> Is is trust that you will you will work it out. >> Yeah. And and and it's also not condescending like um cuz if we did the therapy sessions, that would be awesome. Be like, "Yeah, I know. I know. I know your your work fired you and you've got a bill next week and you're going to lose your property, but everything works out. And then the guy walks away really happy whistling and they're literally hiding from the police right now and we're like, "Look, everything's going to work out. >> Don't worry about it. It's fine." No, that's not >> about it. >> The point is bad shit does happen, but eventually you will learn from it and you'll you will gain experience and you'll be able to say at the end of it and you just don't know how long that that line is. I think that's, you know, you look back in 5 years later and you're like, do you know what? I'm still here. Life's cracking on and I've >> It's very true that I' I've always found bad experiences are also experiences. If you've never had anything really difficult happen to you, you're due >> like you're you're in trouble.

>> Yeah. I mean, that was me. >> That was me. >> Yeah. Well, the the >> the issue was though is probably bad stuff had happened to me before, but I was too happy to notice. Now, there's a fine line between happy and ignorance, I will say. >> And I'm firmly firmly in the C. I I'm happy to be ignorant, I will say. But Monty, and life lessons. So, Jason, myself, Lionel, Alberto, one, two, three, and Martin, five, we were the five best friends forever. You were there, right? Yeah. Why do you look you look shocked pretty >> just because I'm literally in front of you right now and you forgot me.

>> Um we I was actually not that I forgot you is had I already said it >> just right. >> Yeah. >> Um >> that's why I was like >> same five as last year. The same five as last year and I booked a a place this year that everyone was quite happy about with six bedrooms. >> Shit. Well, six six bedrooms. But I will I will hasten to add that one of those bedrooms >> uh is is not a bedroom. It's it's it's just a bed in a in a kitchen. >> We don't have to specify. We don't have to specify whether or whether they were nice or not.

>> He could have slept at least one more person, >> right? I mean, technically speaking, >> we we could have slept more cuz the kitchen table, the bathtub, >> do you know what I mean? These are all bedrooms depending on your level of desperation. >> You and I both had a massive double bed and >> I hate double beds. I find it quite hard to sleep in them now. >> Yeah, I think since I had um a wife like the concept of sleeping in a single and the kids obviously I now sleep in a single bed in my in the study when I want to have a quick cheeky nap. Uh and it I like it cuz I can't fall off. I mean it's not just that but you know it's like you you know where you stand.

You're not like reaching out for stuff that's not there. Um we also had um LG from the Discord. the only real Mini Matters fan. I will stress. >> A real Mini Matters fan. >> Um, and he is a lovely bloke and he he So, he threw me off cuz he's Chinese. Okay. And I expected him to be >> from Hong Kong. Yeah. >> Is that That's China though, right? I think I spoke to them. >> Yeah, technically. I mean, he's from Manchester. >> So, that was what threw me off, right? Cuz I know there's a lot of Chinese collectors who are Chinese, right? And they fly into Monty and stuff, >> like Daniel the Collector or whatever he's called. Um, and there's another guy. Um, >> that guy. And >> I was going to say Singapore Noodles, but I was like, no one would call themselves that.

>> So, no, they wouldn't. But that is China as well, right? >> Yeah. No, Singapore is another country. Another country. >> She It's almost inadvertently more racist. I' I'd argue it is. >> Right. Well, apologies. There's an episode there's an episode of It's always sunny in Philadelphia that happens literally this they they there's the whole episode and they think because they have southern accent and you don't see their faces and and you are creating an image of of them in your head and then at the end you're they show it and they are Chinese and you're like >> that's so well at least if a TV show does it it's not racist anymore. Um, so >> yeah, that that show especially, it's very uh very PC.

>> It it threw me off. Um, because I was expecting a normal China man and obviously it was just Michael who's from Manchester. Um, but he sounded more like he was from like Yorkshire or like Evan like like the West Country. Um, but most people thought he was American anyway. Not to go on about him. >> Several people thought he was American. I think I even thought he was American. >> Yeah, he's a nice guy. And thanks for coming. I mean, you didn't come for us. Obviously, he went to Monty. Thanks for saying that. >> I mean, he more or less did cuz he showed up with Kilicans and the podcast and then was drawn to us for the whole weekend.

>> To be fair, I kept messaging him being like, "Come to dinner, come to lunch." Um, he wasn't just like, um, you know, a beetle or a flight to shit. I'd rather say like um it was weird as shit in this situation. >> Yeah. >> Not him. >> I got it. >> Do you saving? >> No. No. I'm I'm I'm I'm in the brave and I'm I'm really happy with being there. >> Um so absolutely sure that Michael's listening to this. So it was very nice to Michael. Oh and uh well she better be motherfucker. Right. So um it was us five and I have to say it was the best Monty I've ever experienced in for my for myself. Um, I I I laughed. I've never laughed that much in my life. So, it was good. It was really good to see Lionel again. Like, he's chilled out a bit more. And we know now he doesn't listen to the podcast cuz we can talk shit about him. He's still obviously preparing stuff for us. Don't get me wrong. He's still doing some of the segments and giving out some content and

stuff, but that's just cuz he's committed. But it but but yeah, I I I I actually at one point I was I thought I was just crying, but I was still laughing. Do you know what I I don't think I've ever had that before where it was in the awards ceremony as well. So, it was slightly awkward and we were like really at the front. Um, >> yeah, you and Lionel were like right next to the what what counts as a stage, I guess. >> Yeah, it's cuz we got there too late cuz of the ice cream situation and then >> Yeah, I wasn't even sure. I I I wasn't sure why you even showed up, but then I realized you were actually both competing.

>> Well, neither of us expected to place. Um, so full cont by the way. >> He's the the thing you two worked together with. I believe the the beyond miniature um >> gladiator bust. >> Yes. It's a it's an it's >> more or less a gladiator. It's just a a naked. >> It's an anatomical piece that you guys sell. >> Yeah. >> Ah, okay. >> So, and he entered that into SMC and got bronze. >> Yes. >> Right. Well, it wasn't SMC. It was World Model Expo. Now, there's a very good episode. I doubt I can be bothered to link to it, but I'll try to link to it on at least on YouTube, right? Uh the episode where we discuss like disappointment in painter competition, right? And it's a good episode. I do believe it's probably our only really only really only really only really only good one from back in the day. And um it it was a bit like um I don't know what the right word was like therapy, it seemed. Or or or he he got rid of some demons by winning this, right? like he you could the I've got a photo of him on stage at World

Model Expo and he's fucking fuming, right? He is he is really angry and there's a photo of him on the stage at Monty and he's like a fucking kid at Christmas. I've never like he was he was stupid. He was like it was like like a puppy dog almost like I don't know breastfeeding or something. He was like super happy. the most content I've ever seen him. And and bearing in mind, he entered, but there wasn't much. Like, when you enter and you you it's a four-year-old piece, he's not stressed about entering, right? Do you know what I mean?

>> Did he win, by the way? >> He won masters bronze. >> Uh-huh. >> He did say that masters is easy and the weakest category of all, but um you know, I don't know. I I think take credit. I mean, I get it. He thinks he wouldn't place if he entered that into sci-fi or fantasy. And the fantasy did seem quite good. Um, I also >> What what was it? Historical. >> Historical. >> Yeah, historical. >> Oh, I see. >> Yeah. But yeah, I um I'm very happy for him. I feel like he's passed a wall and he's absolutely going to Monty next year and he's going to paint something. Um >> and he was talking about Golden Demon, going to Golden Demon until he won Monty and now he's like actually I'm probably going to miss Golden Demon and go to Monty. Um I see. Now the meat of it.

Hold on. Hold on. Fucking hell. I'm vegetarian. Oh shit. I forgot I changed the meat. Right. So that's the meat of a jingle now. I came back from Golden Demon fully like I'm I'm back into painting. Right. >> Mhm. And I've left Monty in no way stronger saying, "I'm back. I'm into painting." It didn't have the opposite effect at all, but it didn't have an impact to make me want to paint.

However, we we tried we actually tried to record two Mini Matters podcasts while we were there. Like, as in we recorded and they were both just fucking shit. >> So, we're not ever going to release them. They were awful. But we went back with the French lads to our cabin and um and Tibo there was showing me the Harlequin he painted for me and there >> I was meant to take it home but he we sort of just forgot to talk. I think I was meant to bring stuff to take home but he reminded me at Monty like the day I traveled that oh don't forget I'm bringing the model and I was like a shit. So seeing that piece has motivated me 10 times more than any piece in Monty and obviously there was Albert's Tios um Maxim's like ogre I saw a lot of pieces but I wasn't inspired by anything and I'm kind of curious why because it's a piece that you want to paint >> or because it's elder.

>> Well that's but it's it's literally your model. It's the model that you you've made uh well you commissioned you have it's it's your baby right so and you have expectations to paint it and you want to see it painted and when you see it well done then it's it's natural I think so that kind of leads me to why don't the other things I don't fully get why I can't basically I'll stop there we can come back to it how did you two fuck you We don't feel we don't fucking >> No, let's keep going.

>> No, but I want I want to know if it was inspiring for you guys. But yeah. Okay, let's let's jump in then. Fine. So, I'm confused why I see all these there's a sea of of well- painted models, right? Obviously, some are going to naturally just tickle you more than others, obviously. But I don't understand why I could get so excited about TBO's model. And I was talking to him about why he wasn't excited, like he didn't feel too happy about it and stuff. And it didn't have any negative impact of my feeling towards the model either. I just I found it weird that I could be such >> That happens to everyone. I mean that's what I I I can count in one hand the models that inspired me at Golden Demon and there's thousands and it's same in in any competition and it's just because it speaks to you because it's it's the same um topic is the same thing that you style that you like. So, or maybe it's a style you you have never done and you want to do, but it speaks to you somehow, but not not all uh all the

figures in the competition can speak to you because you would be fucking overwhelmed. >> Yeah, I think Sorry, go ahead. You're >> No, no, go on. It's pretty normal. >> I have to agree that it's uh I think it's like that for everyone and it's not you're not really missing out on anything. I actually also felt kind of similar. I wasn't really inspired this weekend anymore than I was after Golden Demon. And I think I'm I see it as a as something positive when I'm uh looking at hundreds of amazing pieces, but I'm still pretty sure what I actually want to do myself.

And so if you go home and the one thing that stood out to you was the Tibo was Tibos Harlein, >> that's just cuz you're kind of walking down the same sort of path you were already on. >> As opposed to all the time seeing new things and going, "Oh, actually I want to do that. I want to do that. I'm going to do that." It's I mean, for one thing, it's really hard to be inspired. It's it's weird to be inspired by the storytelling uh entries from from Monte because many of them are so unique and they're entirely about one person's idea and I I feel like I'm not going to >> take anything away from that that makes me go, "Oh, I'm going to do that, too." Or as something similar, you know? Um I'm kind of happy to just look at that and be like, "Wow, cool. Someone else had a cool idea." Why did you Jamie, you you mentioned that you were quite inspired to paint after Golden Demon. Yeah.

>> So that I was going to ask you, there were so many things I wanted to unpack in all of your comments. Just quickly then, you're you were well, no, I was silent. Um, it looked like Yeah, you're Were you more inspired by Golden Demon or Monty? >> Uh, me probably Golden Demon. >> So, it was really not sure why. >> Well, that's kind because it speaks to you more, right? >> I guess. I guess it's literally the same. I guess >> probably true. But it's it's uh for me when I see um some uh anime figures, I'm more inspired than when I see Maxim's figure. And I think Maxim is fucking amazing. But it's not what I what what I really like, you know? It's it's not my type of >> of thing that I would choose. So that's why if I see a crappy anime figure that's laying around, but it's, you know, has something that I that I like, I will be more inspired just because it's what it calls me.

>> So inspiration isn't drawn from something being good. Basically, it's much >> definitely. Yeah. Well, then that leads the question to I mean there's loads of other stuff that we've obviously missed there, but like is is is inspiration much more it goes hand inhand with having fun, enjoying a show like the more inspired you are, the more you think you've you've enjoyed it. for for me >> probably >> the one of the there's a lot of discussion about the word art and I I hate this discussion overall but >> I've never heard it until this yeah >> for me um art or creativity is very very um honest and truthful to you right is is you don't do it for for anyone you do it for yourself the moment that you start doing for for some we talked about this many times but when you start doing for for other people then you start stop um

having fun >> and that's because that's that's not creativity anymore that the motive is not creativity the motive is achieving something or uh you know it's a means to an end and creativity is the goal the the the fact of doing it and that's the only reason for doing this is being happy and being fulfilled yourself. >> That's a good I mean you're right we have spoken about it before. No, it I mean there's two things. First of all, the first question we'll do both so I say it out loud. How do you stay creative when you're doing box arts for other people? And the second point is if you're painting for social media, if you're painting for to finish the piece, if you're painting for um just because it's >> Yeah. Then that's what has that's what killed me, right? And I realize now from Lionel and Alfonso both telling me to stop painting Elder, I stopped painting um for f for fun and creativity for

myself. And I was painting just to improve basically, right? Like and I think there's a place for that as well. Like if you if you >> if if if you are improving for yourself, but if you're improving for something else, then no. >> Yeah. Well, this was for someone else, I guess. I was improving for the sake of learning rather than having fun. It just took me six years to learn that. Um, and I'm still not sure if I've learned it because um, I I got too scared to do the N&M, didn't I? So, I just didn't do it or I did it in bone rather than the colors I wanted to. Um, now, how do you keep it fresh when you're doing box arts?

>> That that actually ties very well together with Do you remember that the little thingy? >> Your epiphany. You forgot to say that in the new in the This is perfect. We're going to get to it right now. >> Yeah. Do you could Could you imagine if I forgot the >> That would be annoyed. >> Funny. >> I would be annoyed. >> 15 minute mini. >> This leads us into the next chap chapter which is our now's epiphany. >> Go. >> Which actually it's exactly what you what you were saying because I my epiphany is that I was very afraid of >> doing things. So when I when I started painting, I I gave zero shits about the outcome. I literally just wanted to paint and because I have no had no expectations, I had no fear of messing up because there was no messing up. It it was just another outcome.

But obviously with time and with people maybe looking up to you or you know you create yourself some expectations of having to to fulfill that that image that you have set for yourself and when I was about to do this no metallic which by the way for context I'm doing a a bust which is a nomalic and it's very different from what I've done uh since now and I was like afraid Great. I was planning the piece because I always take a few hours to plan the piece before starting.

And when I was planning it, I was seeing myself going back to no, let's not do this because it's too risky. And and I was so pissed at myself of realizing that I was literally cutting my wings just thinking it's too risky. If it doesn't work, it's hours that you you've wasted. And this never happened to me before. I mean, I was not um worried about wasting hours. I was not worried. I was not I was confident that I could um overcome that challenge, you know, that I I would >> that I would win the fight against the figure.

>> And I chose to just tackle it. And yeah, whatever. Uh, if it's if it's bad, it's bad. If it's good. >> How did you get there, though? Like, why why did you have a did you consciously go, "No, stop." Or was it just a like why didn't you just not do it? >> No, I I did do it. >> No, why did Yeah. Why did you do it when you when So, you had >> Because I Because I saw myself having fear. >> Yeah. Yeah.

And then because I had I always had a lot of success when I was ambitious and then when I was um afraid, right? Because then you you're doing things that you haven't done and you are progressing when you're afraid and when you are on the outside your comfort zone and that was the point. I was literally wanting desperately to go back to my comfort zone >> and >> because of because you were busy at work or you had loads of stuff like what like >> Yeah, I have literally I have five figures this month. I have so much stuff to do. I didn't want to waste >> those hours and I I did the whole helmet in one day and it's probably one of the best nomatics I've ever done.

>> Yeah. So, and and that taught me again um how important it is to to throw yourself at the at the challenge and and trust trust yourself even if not always will will be a success. >> Yeah. >> But something will advance in your head. >> Yeah. I mean that that that was going to be my first point that um most people won't get it done first time in a day you know like of course >> but it's I guess also important to say that you will learn something from it you'll fuck up >> I mean this is another step I mean obviously I painted hundreds of nallalics of of different types of natalics so I know I know the topic very well >> but this is another step between the previous one it's just that It's the difference between the previous one.

>> Yeah. No, I get it. Uh, so it's just a life lesson as don't be a fucking pussy and basically like >> basically basically. Yeah. Like just dive in. I It's It's It's funny how this deep and great you you said it while you were talking like um the whole thing of um when you were young. It's like your episode on the journey, right? >> When you're young, you really do just paint. You're not even for a second thinking is this going to be good or bad or or anything, are you? You're just having fun. You are quite like and then we get to these people and I say these people us adults basically where you've got Yeah. the expectations is fascinating really cuz now I've I was telling Tibo as well like he he explained why he was frustrated with the figure and he just said a lot of some of the things were a lot harder to resolve than he thought he would. And that's fair. That's got nothing to do with like that's just like it it was harder than you thought, right? It took longer. Um, and I've already now creating un maybe unrealistic is not the right word. I I

see things from you guys, the good painters that I know I can't do or I haven't explored how to do it. So, I'm pretty sure that when I sit down and actually paint this, I'll be trying to recreate what you guys are doing, but I'm not able to replicate it. Um, which is like really good on one hand because I'm pushing myself and trying to learn, but on the other flip side, I'm like, I'm gonna have that a little, you know, it's not going where I want it to go. Oh, now help me out here. Blah, blah, blah. So, the the the the rule that we've got in place for ourselves, I guess that's the mini matter rule now, and we could come up with like the mini matters law or something, some clever word for it.

>> Mhm. >> Is that I never ask for feedback until I finished the model. And I think that helps a lot basically. No, Martin disagree. >> Oh, sorry. I just fuck I just um I um it was just perfect. >> I don't disagree. >> I don't disagree, but I I think it's an interesting point because >> that was that's not what I thought you were going to say with the mini matters rule that you can't ask for feedback until you're done. But it might actually not be such a bad idea for yourself. I I have a model that I'm starting to paint right now and I u I want all the feedback all the time because I have no idea what I'm doing.

>> Uh >> so that's the best question. >> That's the best time to not ask >> to not ask. >> I I think so. I think so. >> Basically, he just won't be bothered. He's like, >> "Yeah, >> well now is accept. I'm not going to I'm not going to bother now." But but >> it's the concept, right? Yeah, stop not stop being a pussy and just do it. >> It's it's more about um I always I always do this analogy like you are in a fight, right? And the figure is your opponent. If you bring someone else to fight with you, >> you are not really uh doing all the you are you are dividing the experience of of that. If you play, you kill >> an experience. Yeah, you kill the boss and you the experience divides into two or into three or into four.

>> To use that same analogy, wouldn't you want a coach? Wouldn't you want want someone to tell you how to fight? >> Or would you do already know how to fight your arms desperately? >> Well, obviously I I expect that you are going to a to a boss that it's more or less your level. So, because you are going step by step, right? So you are not trying to do a kill no metallic when you are literally doing your first one. So you are doing something that is that it's attainable for you but slightly more >> and if that's if that's the case you you definitely want to be alone to get all the experience and all the loot and all the things. But that in itself is the crux of the issue is the unrealistic expectations. The the I want to paint TBO's model now, >> right? And I'll spend seven months getting there and I won't move on and I won't do it until I've resolved this XY Z, right? But the only way I'd ever get to paint something like cuz I think technically I could paint TBO's piece. I don't know if that statement is true,

but I I think like I've got a lot of technical expertise and so yes, if someone held my hand through the whole process, I could probably get something near that level, >> if you get what I mean. But I I it's taken me forever and every step of the way he's holding my hand, he's like, "No." And and you'll focus on like a minute piece of the model before moving on, blah blah blah. Which is why I think it's a terrible idea to do it that way, basically, because then I'm not >> Yeah. Yeah. Whereas we don't know your peace, Martin. You might you might just need a little bit of feedback or something.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Of course, if if you need it, obviously it's always we will always be here for you. But but um >> it's a very interesting point. It's a very because you mentioned Jamie um your I figure I guess Eldrad or something you painted where you did get >> constant a Yeah. Yeah. from wasn't in sermon. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh, I see. Right. >> And that's why it's not that bad. >> Well, yeah. I mean, that doesn't sound quite fair, but I see what you're saying.

>> No, no. I I even now 6 years later >> and it feels like it wasn't quite yours. >> No, it wasn't. Yeah. Yeah. Literally, if if I went to Arnell's house and we spent a week painting a model together, I'd produce something that probably places in Monty, right? Um, and he's not painted any of it, but he's literally been there handholding blah blah blah. Um, and it's not that a Zerman made me feel cheap, but afterwards I definitely had a a case of it's not imposter syndrome cuz I know that I can't do that by myself. So, it's not like I'm pretending that I can. I just I know I can't. Um, and it's Yeah, I mean, that's what that is the everything goes down to to one thing which is decision making. Painting is decision making. It's the only thing that different differentiates you, me, Maxim, Albert, everyone because we all know how we all know how to use a brush.

And the only the literally only difference that between us is the decisions. So if if you take that from the equation, what you are doing is just you're just becoming a hand >> for someone else >> and you are not learning how to think which is what which is the the key to to art to to creativity to everything. You have to take decisions. I think this connects well to uh to what we were saying about what you take away from painting competitions as well because I I I definitely felt with this weekend in Monte that the things that inspired me in particular it was Maxim Zer uh is that a lot of that looking at it up close uh and I I really tried to do for a long long time there were a lot of things where I thought I it's not like oh I can do this just as well I'm going to go home and do it but it was like I can I can see how he did it or I can recognize a texture or a method or whatever it is that made me you know made me want to paint basically whereas

other things I might look at and So, I I don't even know how to do this. Or maybe I don't want to. But whatever it is, I I feel like it's there's something there about uh yeah, wanting to paint something myself is much more of a clear feeling of inspiration rather than what we were saying about, you know, you see something you like, you might that might not quite be inspirational or you might just like it. >> I think fucking good, but that's not necessarily inspiration. >> I definitely um fell prey to that. uh problem the I look at something and I'm like shit I could do that I can win a golden demon like rather than realizing that the actual application is is less than half the battle may maybe that's too extreme cuz obviously you've got people who just are just tabletop painters and they could physically never do it right fine but let's say you're of a level and I was always like it wasn't a frustration but it was like man that wins I'm slightly confused why I don't how to win. You know, this is when I was

by myself as well before I even knew that there was like a painting community. >> Um I'd go to Golden Diva with my sister and and W my wife probably. Yeah. At the time. Um so I mean in the last three months now we've been going, right? Maybe maybe four because of our breaks. It's been a it's been a bit of a journey I have to say. Like don't get me wrong. And >> and it's it's it's a short journey to be fair. for for months it seems like a longer journey. >> Yeah. Well, I have only painted half of one model >> but um like the I guess without Yeah, it really is cuz of this cast. So when you when you fuck when you consider journey hold on this is worth pausing right. So I've got it the sh the I I just want to say how much So now like I'm I'm back I'm a people keep asking me online like to play 40k and I've got to do a map update on the

TTS map. It's got like 30,000 people now asking me to update it, right? Because the the maps have changed on these and I fucking I can't be fucking asked, but I know I have to do it because I've got a commitment and I've also got the stats site and stuff, but I really don't want to do it. But that shows how much I know I'm back. And importantly, I realize how much better this podcast is with all three of us painting. Like it genuinely like thought. Yeah. I like because Lionel and I I fell off and then Lionel fell off, but we were still doing the podcast, >> right?

>> And now it's all three of us are painting and it's like I've actually got a subject I want to talk about. >> However, it does mean that we're going to do less shit, less segments, I think, possibly, which isn't a bad thing. >> I think we can pick that up. I think we can deliver some shit. >> Yeah, we can do some nice balance. >> Sure. But it is pretty cool that we're not only all of us painting, but we're like quite different as well. The not not like styles and that, but just >> doing different kinds of painting on different journeys, different aspirations and all that.

>> And we have motivations as well. >> Yeah. >> Like we we I think we have different motivations. >> Yeah. >> And it's yours is money. So that's cool. >> No, that's actually Yes. But but I do have a a big motivation of outside my work >> that links into task masters very nicely. >> Yeah, that too. I mean it's not what I was thinking about but yeah. >> Yeah, it was. >> So what do you mean motivations? Oh, I have I I I have like three figures that I'm producing now because I want to I I just want to produce minis because I want to paint them myself, right?

>> So, >> the fact that I produce them is because I want to fulfill my >> my motivation and then also I have an my first original that I kind of commissioned to someone. So, I will paint it for myself which is a big deal. Uh why haven't I seen this? >> Uh because I don't know it's ah yeah I know because you haven't seen >> you haven't seen Fion so you cannot appreciate it.

>> Sure. Seems like you're backtracking there right and it's finished. >> Well I haven't stopped. I don't mean the paint. Yeah. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. It's pretty extraordinary that you're a full-time commission painter and you're still making time for stuff that um I guess to put it simply you're not being paid to do, right? >> I struggle I struggle I struggle >> to do it and but but yeah, my my goal is to because that's another I had another epiphany in while you were away, I guess.

>> Jesus, this is what happens when we go away and you're left alone for a few days. >> Yeah. I got some time to think without, you know, just >> people talking in my ear. >> Yeah. >> Um, I kind of forgot. >> Nice. Well done, Martin. Um, right. Let's help him backtrack. We will pause again. We're back in. Go. Good job. So the epiphany was that I understood why I'm unhappy with my pieces all time which I already knew but but I didn't knew if you know what I mean.

>> I know >> it's one of those things. Uh so I really want to put some effort because I I see all of all the people putting a lot of effort >> and I don't everyone literally everyone everyone in Golden Demon everyone puts so much effort and and time and dedication and love >> and I don't because I I got used to producing producing a lot. I know what what matters in a figure. I know what doesn't matter. So I it's not like I cut corners, but I I go straight to the point. So I don't have time to commit to the piece. And all these things make me not um care for the work as much. And that happen what happens is that I don't I'm not happy with my with my outcome.

I'm not fulfilled. uh you know I I literally every time I I show a piece that I painted I have the urge to tell the the person that is that is seeing it I I did it without effort because that's the reality. I I feel almost embarrassed to show it because it's not my my real effort and I hate that. And what's most important is that I am people that put effort. So I guess the epiphany is that I want to put some effort like real effort and because I I it's not like I don't know the feeling. I know the feeling. I I have some pieces like the nude study or or aron. I'm fairly happy with it. But but even more, you know, like could you imagine if I spend like 3 months in a piece? What would what would happen? I don't know because I never done it. So I really want to

try to experience that at least. >> It's like pushing yourself uh in in terms of time or effort or >> it's more in effort. Yeah. >> More than time. Time I guess it's a consequence. It's more um the fact that everything is carefully thought and the best it can be because now I I compromise between what what the how good it can be against time >> and I I do the compromise right between the two. What if you remove the time from the equation and you just try to do the best you can period?

>> Must be a really cool feeling. Yeah, exactly. It's it's literally >> it's exactly what uh I experienced in the heavy metal team. It literally exactly the same thing and I think most people on the team do now as well. >> What do you mean that every was able to spend time? Oh, no you're not. >> No, no, no. What Arnell is saying about being unhappy? I think it sounds very depressing that everything you do for work is is you're unhappy with, but you also for me anyway every single one was like yeah exactly what I was saying. you want to tell people like this isn't quite my the the effort I want to put in.

>> Yeah. >> Usually almost exclusively that's just to do with time. Uh so it's interesting to hear you say it. It's literally the same. And I guess if you break it down I was going to ask you would you say that you when you cut corners and you're and you're kind of moving ahead because you have to would you say that that's at every step of the project or is it specifically like rendering? Like could you do something where you you have a commission, you're almost done, and instead of finishing it tomorrow, you finish it in a week. Would that make it way better?

>> It's the whole project. >> It's the core it's the core structure of the project. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Because um I've I uh I dedicated my career to understanding basically what's important in a mini. So I I go straight to it. I solve it and then everything else is just an accessory. So I can do it fairly quickly. >> Yeah. >> If you tackle it in a more complex way where it's not just one thing that's that that matters and um you create more Yeah.

more more complexity nuance everything then everything it's exponentially more time consuming and that's the that's what uh makes a figure uh from 3 days to 1 month it's not the refinement it's how complex every single step is you know >> yeah I completely agree it's it's really interesting and that's exactly what I've thought about with my golden demon entries as well some some things with my last entry uh was most of the things I'm unhappy with is the beginning and the what you're saying with like complexity and and uh how you plan a project. It wouldn't necessarily have been better for like so and so many days but just effort just more work at at certain steps and not necessarily at the finish line. Um, sometimes it's easy to say, "Oh, this got rushed because I had a deadline." And if I'd spent two more days on it, I could have polished out these little things that didn't come out so well, but often it's literally like the very beginning of a project. You

need to get going before you've had a a good amount of time to figure everything out. >> Yeah. For me, it it does a lot with with the the risk. uh because usually the only place I I take a risk is the the the single thing that I I feel like matters then I sometimes not always most of the times I don't uh that's the only place I can take a risk the the other accessory things I don't take any risk whatsoever I just solve them completely simple and and that's something that makes me feel like I haven't pushed because I'm not you know I don't feel it. I don't find it hard. And if I don't find it hard, it feels like I just, you know, did >> you not think poorly that this could be um It's interesting like could could it not be really you're not going to know how to do it is

what I'm saying. I can't think how else to phrase it. Like do you not think you might be shit if you try and do something really hard? Yeah, because you're so not used to it. >> Of course. Of course. That's literally the point. That's why I That's just the epiphany. That's why I don't do it. And that's why I'm unhappy because then the result is is all the same as I I've always done, right? And that's why I'm I'm unhappy because it's it's the outcome is known to me already. >> Yeah. Yeah. But then again, that's that's Yeah, I do get it with work as well in fairness because this is your job. Sometimes I'm most of the time I'm just running on I don't give a shit. Let me get it done so I can go and play this game or I can paint this model or I can do X thing, right? And and every now and then I'll go, you know what? I'm I'm sick of the the bullshit of the the same thing every day. Let me just try and push myself even though um work won't care. Well, no, this is slightly different in your case

obviously, but work won't really care if I put more effort in. And no, I'm not getting any real like accolades for it, but I just need that mental stimulus, >> you know? >> It's exactly that. >> I keep pushing at you as our now. Yeah. Go on, man. >> No, but the thing is you say like work won't appreciate it. That's kind of the same for I don't know for our now, but for myself when I was painting for that was that was you had to remind yourself all the time like there's a good enough level >> and it's not about them being like unappreciative of anything. It's just some of those fine fine details and extra little things you might add or just I don't know overall render quality or whatever it is like no one really actually really cares or they do and you you know they might not understand it but you kind you kind of have to agree that you're doing it for yourself. Yeah.

Well, what's interesting is our now will get lots of likes, lots of people saying how good something is, and you'll naturally be like, "Great. I've heard this now for the last 50 projects I've done." >> Um, so it's not like you're going to get anything more if you, >> you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. And sometimes it's even worse, which is very annoying when you do something very simple and and that it's it's like a McDonald's uh burger against the the perfect steak and and everyone is like preferring the the burger and it's like, well, fuck you.

>> But this happens. This happens a lot. >> Yeah. Yeah. I remember when you did some and Albert and I were both separately said, "How could we like the black?" >> Like, "Oh, the black is amazing." and you were like, "What? What about this thing here that I've actually spent time doing?" It's like, "Ah, yeah, that's great, mate, but the black's good." Yeah. >> So, all the fucking time. >> So, get Good isn't producing com content this good, are they? >> So, that's all I'm saying. >> I wouldn't know. I wouldn't know. >> I I doubt it. I doubt it.

>> Probably the best podcast in the world. Definitely with the stupidest and fewest listeners. However, Michael wasn't stupid. Now, that threw me off, >> I'll be honest, >> surprisingly. >> Yeah. I I I really thought it was like kind of American vibe, like, you know, um a wife beta kind of sort of thing. You know what I mean? >> You know what I mean? Like the Texas vi like the stereotypical they live in a swamp >> and they're like four teeth. like but then I met Mike and Michael and he was like he he knew about politics now that threw me off for a while.

>> He was well read. He was eloquent. >> He didn't smell bad. He was a gentleman. >> Yeah. And he gave me killer accountants. I mean what what's more intelligent than that? >> Killer. >> But get good. I've seen a couple of their listeners and they are idiots. They are way worse than ours. In fact, ironically though, one of them is Scottish lad. He's he listens to both. So, I don't know what that says. I can't have too high brow content for too long in the show, right? I need to bring it down. It's It's And that that was like um that was like 40 minutes of real content.

>> Yeah. Yeah. We We need a break. We need to rest a little bit. Yeah. I'm sick of it. I um >> Do you have any idiot segments now? Do you want to do your first as a race car? >> No, but I I don't have any. But I have got Thought of the Day. >> Oh, good. >> It's a new segment. We should have before you go to to the day, we should have a um a crossover with them or or a some street fight or I I'm done with both. I mean, we could do a street fight or a bad idea. Actually, >> a painting street fight where we paint against them, but we get the entire community to also paint, >> right?

>> Arnell's idea and an actual street fight. As long as we remember that this was Arnell's idea. So all of us just get together on a court somewhere like you know >> we have to fly in. >> The only the only weapons that we can use are tools from our desk like brushes. >> I've got scalpels. >> Yeah, scalpels are probably forbidden. >> Horrible things. Yeah. >> Horrible. >> I've got a dildo on my desk. >> 13 years. >> I sometimes use a machete in my hobby. Yeah. Yeah. Guns have >> a machine gun.

>> Fuck those guys. Um, slating get goods really easy though cuz I don't know them. So, it becomes a lot easier to talk shit about someone you don't know, right? >> No, but it's it's great. It's it's with love. It's with love. >> No, but I'll be honest. I can't believe they're like literally 100 times more popular than we are, right? And they've been around like two months and we've been around for like six years. >> Well, they they they do their work. >> Yeah. They actually >> It's more to do with the who they are and what they do more than anything.

>> Yes. >> So basically >> they put a lot of effort. >> We put effort >> almost the same as us. >> Yeah. For sure. >> For sure. >> That silence told everything. >> We literally didn't. You know what my planning was for this episode? I've slowly Through the week, I put thoughts into a Gmail draft. >> Mhm. >> That's all I did. >> And then while we were doing the intro, I thought of a meat of it. >> You could to spin it as Jason or Valbborne vibes.

>> We just I'm I'm just inherently corre like creativity is just oozing out of my fucking body. >> I've been saying this, >> right? And I I just I I just wing my life >> basically. >> And you're And you're a little unwell too. like anyone who can hear this can tell that I am sick. I I picked up some sort of virus in Italy and uh >> so I've got your I have a fever and uh >> and you have a fever and we're still firing on all cylinders. We've delivered perhaps one of the like four best podcast episodes of all time of any podcast.

>> I'd agree with that and definitely better than get good. Um so >> 100%. What's interesting is it's it's possible I'm able to concentrate right right more now because I'm in physical pain the the like that it's it's like um anime oh shit I want to talk about a TV show um anime where they deliberately um wear a suit that like limits their their powers cuz they want to enjoy the battles and then like um >> Kachi he has bells on his thing right >> or dragon I don't watch dragons >> like that in uh Yeah. Or Dragon Ball as well.

>> Dragon Ball. Yeah. Dragon Ball. Yeah. >> And then they're like, "Right, this is actually a real battle." And then it goes and they're like, "Right, let's fight." And that >> that happened lally every episode in Dragon Ball. >> Well, by me being in physical pain, it's apparently limited my um ADD to jump around in um projects. >> So, thought of the day. Okay. It's a very it kind of like an amalgamation of um Oh, we lost him. >> Stupid like our listeners. Um, and um fucking shit. Yes, it's a mammation of things I hate and things I love, but it's not really Okay, so there's three possible things. Um, what does that mean?

I don't know what that means. I wrote that I think before my nap. I might have been lucid dreaming when I wrote that one. Um, okay. So, pick one. One or two. Number one or two. >> Oh my god. It's an attack of the cat. >> Oh, this cracks me up. Right. >> Was it you, Martin, who said it? He now produces the level he produces and he has cats on his wet pallets. >> Right. >> I know. No, I have I'm completely shocked cuz we have I have issues with like dust >> like like a fleck of dust and it will ruin an entire thing in >> completely ruin it. Yeah, I've had massive problems with that for my last project and I like my house is clean.

>> We should >> now literally has like seven or eight cats on his desk when he's painting >> and I use one as a palette. >> We should use We should create a hashtag um instead of fuck smoothers. It's called have hair. Hold on. >> Yeah. Well, >> yes. My wife's ill again, right? Not again. She's got the same I guess she's getting the same thing that I've got, which is kind of bad timing. We Right. Two or one. One or two. Pick one and then I'll do the other one next week. One. Okay. So, my thought of the day here was I was just waiting for my clicks in B for baldness to exist. Okay.

There must have been some evolutionary advantage to it. >> Damn, that's that's that's a pretty good question actually. Yeah. >> Right. Thoughts? >> I'm not so sure, but but it's possible. >> Well, think about fingerprints, right? It means that there was some amalgamation of >> we we it's not an advantage other than that we don't need it. Well, so fingerprints, someone got an advantage over having fingerprints, right? And they had slightly better.

>> That's different. >> Yeah, there's another charact when >> when you get something extra or lose it. Uh, one thing is because it's an advantage, the other is because you don't use it. >> Yeah, >> I would use if I had it. I mean, don't get me wrong, I I look a lot better without hair than I do with hair because of how I treated my hair. Um, and it was it was a it was excluding the fact that I have to shave like once every two days, but now I've got it down. Okay. What I do, I used to shave, let's say 3 days or 4 days, like one.

Now I just do a little bit every day. So I used to have to shave properly and then be worried about missing because this bit would you'd have a clump here. Not anymore. I just do a rough 30 second shave and then I'm like I'll get it eventually just by every day. Right. Life hack. >> Yeah. Cuz I hate I hate doing stuff and that was definitely something that I hated doing. Um, so my thought here is actually maybe boldness is new and it's like some mutation that hasn't had chance to evolve into being beneficial or not.

Or maybe it's just not detrimental to creating life again. Like I if I if I had super spunk, no, if I could get a girl without if I could get a girl pregnant without having sex, I'd be like I mean I my I I I would fucking impregnate the world, right? And I'd have a huge evolution. It's probably quite a basic uh evolutionary uh uh story or whatever, but everyone would be getting pregnant and my seed or my genes would be everywhere, right? Then that would be the new evolutionary standard.

>> Yeah. I would be the father of everything. >> And then two generations down the line we would thought be crippled and and literally >> brain dead from >> ruin. So >> drooling over all over the place. Everyone drooling. >> So maybe it's not me. >> Much like our listeners. >> So our the listeners are Jimmy's. You know how I know the listeners are are stupid is cuz they keep coming back and I'm the host, right? So that's how you know that unless it's like >> anyone the real super fans when they tell me about the episode they this is what they're here for.

>> That that perfectly personifies why they are, you know, they're not doing good jobs. They're they're they're doing like they're like they need Yeah. I I was going to go down another No. So boldness I feel like it it's a random mutation then and it offers no evolutionary advantage. >> It's a good question. Why does it happen? Why does it why why are some people exceptionally hairy? >> Because um yeah, the hairiness is different though. Optimization optimization is a kind of evolution, right? Yeah. But you have to have some benefit to it. If I if I'm >> optimization, less less energy to >> Yeah. No. Uh oh, interesting.

>> Well, no, because then I would have some advantage if I'm, you know, if you go back 10,000 years, if I'm a burly motherfucker with with good genetic muscle, I'm going to hunt better, bosch the people off, fuck more women, have more babies. By proxy, I I >> You just evolution, right? Yeah. Yeah. >> But boldness in this day and age or let's even go back 10,000 years when humans were still humans. It's probably not long enough ago. Let's go 100,000 years and only my head goes bald. My body is still I'm producing more hair now on my body than I've It's only my head. Do I really gain an advantage over anybody else? No. But I don't create a disadvantage. It makes me think that the trait isn't recessive. It doesn't carry on. Sorry, Mark. You wouldn't you would you would uh get sunburnt more easily I guess.

>> Yeah, you might get sunburn. >> But it's it's also general like it's not about you. It's about the human race and the human race is losing hair overall like people is less hairy than 2,000 years ago or three or four I don't know. Uh well or or yeah million probably. That's why I think it's not a trait that can be passed on possibly. Evolution dictates that you would need to have I don't know if it's recessive, but pass on those genes, right? I have stronger muscles, better I'm I'm less susceptible to some illness. I fuck I have a baby. That kid has those same the same DNA. The same I >> as far as I know as far as I know baldness it's somehow. Yeah, I thought so. From the mother's side.

>> It is hereditary though, right? >> Well, >> my grand my bald. >> Yeah, my granddad was was bald at 20. >> And that's from your >> My father No, my my my father's father and my father my dad he has 65 and he's he has a full head of hair. here. >> I mean, don't get me wrong, this is a good thought of it and we've we've embraced into it and and I don't know if I want the thought of it to be a deep com. I suppose it can be either.

>> Probably not. Probably not. Probably not. >> It can. It can like >> But um if so, >> thing is that we don't Google these things. The the the thought of the day. >> Yeah. It's just three um completely illiterate people about this talking about this. >> Well, we're not idiots, >> which is what makes it fun. Well, it's also why >> but it's not it's not a real it's not a real podcast if we just don't just sit here speculating. >> Yeah. About something we don't know importantly. Of course. And and again, >> you know, our our listeners are stupid cuz they didn't know the answer.

>> If someone does >> Yeah. then they're stop listening. >> Yeah. Exactly. They'll be like, "That was literally 5 minutes of absolute trife." And I'm sick of it. Right. I'll delete that from my thought of the day. I've got another two there. I don't know what that one in there that makes no sense. I I'll probably delete that. Um >> Oh, yeah. Only one. Okay. >> Well, I've only I only had three. >> Yeah. >> The third, right? So, >> the three >> the news. Okay. I watched a TV show and I don't know if it's a continuation of pissing myself, laughing. I didn't piss myself. That saying is I is I didn't. Okay. But I did I did I did laugh more than I've ever laughed in my life. I was crying from laughter. I was sobbing. I was actually sobbing. I was laughing so much and and and >> the weekend when you were in the uh >> And that's why I wasn't sure if I was crying cuz I was actually just I I I couldn't contain the joy I felt at that moment that it came out and it manifested itself.

>> There's a fine line between sobbing and crying and >> Yeah. And while I was doing it, I was like, "This is what people mean." But I had nothing. I like it was >> But you cannot you cannot tell me that it was not it was the first time that you experienced that. >> Not like that. I've never fucking laughed that much. No way. I I I dare say never. Like I think I think what helped it was I was I was I felt like I was in a film crew and I was the film and they were like I was the only one laughing and no one understood why you were laughing cuz I was there center stage and everybody could see me. the show hadn't started yet. So, he'd done an announcement and then the mayor did his fucking speech, which is the worst most boring speech in the world, but maybe he has to do it. Um, and at that lion was mon was voicing the mayor, right? So, he was like, "Yeah, thank you all for coming and giving me money. This is a pointless thing, but blah blah." I don't know what he did. And then, um,

Mario came into it. Okay. obviously Italian and Marriott and that I lost it and then I just I broke right. So I knew I couldn't be loud in my laughter and I knew that I'd already gone too far and that was just somehow it was it was self so I'd never I honestly I'd never laughed I've never laughed that much in my life. Um and and then I got on the plane um and Lionel suggested me to watch this TV show. It's on uh Disney Plus. I think it's by Hulu. It's called Chad Powers.

Okay. I was basically pissing myself next to these two quite grumpy The guy next to me had downloaded news from like Israel or some shit, right? Or or on that topic on his YouTube. So, he watched like an hour and a half of really serious, quite depressing, dare I say, news. And there I was like trying to keep it in, but I fucking couldn't. And there's nothing more obnoxious than sitting someone who's laughing and you don't know why they're laughing, right? And you're like, you can't understand. You can't I hate it. And that was me. And the guy next to me, he didn't have a phone. He didn't have a tablet. He didn't have a book. He literally just sat there the whole flight with nothing. And there was me in the middle. And I tell you, Chad Powers is it's I would I would say it's a master stroke of a comedy because >> Wait, it's a show or a film?

>> A show. Six episodes. Um >> I'll give you the premise. Okay. I I was going to do um without spoilers I we were going to do the that film or whatever, right? A film review, okay? He's basically the opening scene is this B quarterback, white quarterback. Um and he does all this amazing shit. Okay, this is like the literally the first scene, so you're not going to miss much. You'll know. And um he he he does all and he get and he's going to win the the title. That's some championship bullshit. and he drops the ball like that far away from the line of where you win and then they go and score a try, okay? Or touchdown, whatever the fuck it's called in American football. Uh, and his life and he's a piece of shit, okay? And basically it's Mrs. Doubtfire in modern era. He sees a post, he literally sees a poster for Mrs.

Doubtfire cuz he goes to some film studio and he reinvents himself as this new character. And I'm I'm tempted to rewatch it. It's that good. And I've only just finished watching it last night. So he I don't want It's good. It's very good. He he he assumes this alter ego and I don't like American football at all. You don't need to. It's got it doesn't really focus on that. And some of the it's just it's good. You you by next week I expect the whole season watched. >> I'll watch. >> Right. >> I've got no other plans.

>> Chad Powers. Yeah. I like And I don't know. I wasn't sure if I was laughing and enjoying this so much because I had my like my breakthrough therapeutic laugh. It it to me it felt a bit like, you know, when you lose someone and you've not cried and you're kind of like I know they're important to me and I'm I'm Yeah. And you're like something's broken in me. That's what I That was felt like the opposite of what happened where I was I was crying in my dreams when this stuff happened or I wasn't crying in real life. here. I laughed out loud and I feel like I'm more I'm able to laugh more now.

>> Yeah. No, that that's I mean uh like you say, crying when you know you need to cry is very cathartic >> when you're Yeah. potentially when you're >> Sorry. Sorry. >> No, no. I was just I was just trending off. What do you want to say? that it happens the same with with crying and laughing that when you haven't cried in a in a long time and then you cry once then you are more easily >> it's like you've been >> uh you you open a a door right and >> same with with laughing >> you open that door yeah and I I I I don't laugh uh my ass off enough and I really like the feeling of doing that >> to throw devil's advocate to my own thing there I laugh a lot like I laugh all the time >> and I'm I quite easy laugh but Makes me think am I >> am I really laughing?

>> The real laugh that you cannot you cannot breathe and and you are >> once in a lifetime. >> That's that's rare. No, it's not a once in a lifetime. >> So you you laugh a lot, Jamie. When we were at the when we were at our house with the French guys, you laughed for just a 10 seconds harder than I've ever seen you laugh. And that's because I missed the laugh during the ceremony. Well, that must have been an overflow. I feel like it's it's like some sort of power up. Then it lasts it's in your system still. >> And it's funny. I think even I think even Albert was like, "Holy shit, I've never seen you laugh that hard." >> This is like exceptional.

>> I don't know what it was. I think Lionel was in good form. >> Yeah, Lionel was in good fucking form the whole weekend. It was It was clear that he was very much enjoying himself and you two, it was great to see you two back together. The thing is >> yeah I I I have been listening some some episodes because as we don't have content when I go when I take the car sometimes I put it to remember and some Lionel has something that that tickles tickles it tickles you in some way. It's funny. It's very funny.

>> I think I it's it I think it's because he's he's not normally that way, right? And then when he finally gets to turn it off, you see like the relaxed guy come out and you're like, "Holy shit." And yeah. Yeah. I don't know. He got me. There was some There was some There was some bit I don't even remember what the I don't remember laughing with the French guys. Like I I laugh I do laugh a lot because a lot of I find humor in in everything. Like even sad moments or stuff where I know I shouldn't be laughing. I I I feel a well of joy bubble up in me and I'll smile. Even when Tina's mom, she's having a go at me. Tina's having a go at me. I My mom's I get I feel happy. I don't I can't explain it. I feel happiness. And then because I feel happy, I start smiling, right? And this isn't always the best thing, but the problem is it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a real reaction. I'm not trying to wind them up. I'm just I feel warm. I feel a connection, right? And it doesn't

matter how that connection is is is is there. But oh fuck, I remember what the thought of day is now. It it's when I when I love that person, I feel closer to them even if they're annoyed at me. And then that warmth and love comes out and then I just look like a fucking dickhead, right? But my mom understands it. She always has. She always laughs when I laugh back. And then my siblings are pissed off because I can't get in trouble because she's laughing with me, right? >> Tina's never Tina's sometimes. Anyway, I'm going to do the thought of the day cuz I need to do it before. So, the thought of the day is don't get angry. You remember how I don't get angry? We had this whole thing, Martin, and you were like, "What the fuck are you talking about?" By the end, cuz I was like pushing too far with just don't get angry. Um, yeah. So, I had an experience on the plane where I got a little bit it it touched some it was stroking some of the old vibes on the anger, right?

You know when you get off a plane and you're in front of someone and everybody lets the people get off and they just stand there and then you go and you go out and you go and you go out, right? Fine. Like two rows behind me went through and I was like, I'm not in a rush. It's fine. But then some other guy from in front of me got out. So they stopped and I was like, right, I'll I'll I'll get out now. girl in front of me and then a bloke and I was already slightly getting annoyed that she pushed in. She could see stop. She could see I was literally trying to get out and she didn't. And then so I just slid in between knowing that this man behind it was her boyfriend. But I was like, "Dude, you're a piece of shit. You should have waited." And she's a piece of shit. She should have waited. So I'm going to And I can be quite assertive when I want to be, right? So I pushed myself in between them. It wasn't like I was rubbing my dick on her ass or anything. So there was no like he's annoyed that I'm like trying to get cushy or whatever.

And he he goes to me. I have my headphones in. He goes to me, "Do you need to go right now?" And I was like, and we were like like that close. Right. Like he was like close. And I was like, "Oh, sorry. Did they cuz did they say I shouldn't go? I didn't. Maybe they said the back can go." And I was genuine. I was like I was actually caught off guard. I was like like and he was like do you need to go and I was like no but and then it started moving right but I could feel in me some aggression and I was like right >> I was like that annoyed me that did annoy me and I was like the lady afterwards let me out and I was like thank you got my bag >> and I was like I think I have to say something to him and I was like no if I just say I'm basically just a Karen dickhead. I just let it go. Right.

Because >> he was being a Karen dickhead. >> He wasn't even being a car. He was just a both of them were overtly a cunts, right? Clearly. >> Yeah. >> So the people in front already weird by pushing, but I was like, it's fine. I'm not in a rush. >> But the point is I I I did let it go cuz I had time to talk myself out of it. I wasn't like angry and I wasn't going to have a fight over something that didn't matter. Like I could have pushed him for example. And I think I would have been morally within my right to do it. But also, he needs to he needs to I actually kind of thought he needs to assert his dominance in front of his girl. And maybe that's just his relationship with her. So, let him do it. It's fine. I understand a little bit like that. You don't want to look like a a simp bitch in front of your woman. Generally speaking, um but then being polite, I kind of question the whole relationship.

Anyway, the main point here is um I had those and >> a bit angry. >> Yeah. Yeah. And it was the walk to the airport, not the to the passport control. Well, it wasn't because we in EU, but um I definitely was I was conflicted in my ease of people can say anything to me really. I really believe that now. Like I had someone in the in the Monty tell me that the show is shit because I talk too much on it. Right. But >> this podcast is shit. Yeah. >> Yeah. But he said it to my face and I know him really well, right? But I didn't get annoyed or angry by that like at all. I was just like that's your opinion and let me try and think about if it's true or not and if I agree.

Whereas this did make me slightly not like fully blown angry but I could see how anger would spark in in me. Anyway, that was like a six minute segment to just say I experienced >> back to do we have task masters or >> oh shit task masters taskm is a big one boys. I'm supposed to receive my kilans today and I I'm literally during this episode I've updated my my post office app 28 billion times. It's still not how clean I am. Yeah. To see if it's close cuz as soon as I get it, like literally the minute I hang up this shit, I'm going to run off and collect them. Yeah.

Yeah. >> Get started. They get stuck in. >> Well, I've got five killer cans now. Um thanks to Michael. But that's for my army. You're doing all of them. >> Well, I'm terrified. I I I'm I told you I still I still don't know how I'm going to resolve this. I should be excited. >> I think that's the that's the attitude I need to take. Excited to paint something different and new. >> You are not >> terrified. Absolutely terrified. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That's awesome. Have you Have you thought about a color scheme for Cuz you're doing an orc army.

>> Oh, yeah. That's true. It would be red. I would only ever paint orcs red or green. Uh >> but are are you going to paint it for the army or or or you will do a scenic base or >> I mean that's even I mean I should >> have you you haven't thought about it basically. >> No, I' I've daydreamed a lot about my elder piece in all honesty. Um which is worrying because it means that I'll paint this in a much more get it out of the way vibe. >> Well, it means tabletop. I'm not going to do a scenic. I'm going to do tabletop cuz then I can game with it. Um, and I will be gaming more. Right.

>> The whole point of task masters is just doing it. >> Exactly. It's get and and this will firmly put me like so resolutely out of my comfort zone. Martin, you've painted these type before. >> I have not painted killer cans, but I've painted orcs for 40k far fewer than I should have. I think I'm very keen to paint more orcs. Are you going to use it as an excuse for doing something or or you know? Yes. Yeah. Um I actually it lines up pretty well cuz I had a I have an idea for a Golden Demon entry. Um which is Ory.

>> Shit. So now and Martin are both going to do their >> Well, I don't think mine will be demon. >> This is this isn't a golden demon entry. This is a great excuse to try some uh recipes and shit. Not that I necessarily need to figure out how to paint red once again, you know, but it it'll be nice to >> Yeah, maybe do a little bit of sketching on it. See? And I just I really like it. It's nice. And >> sorry, the ringtone was going while you were talking. Oh, I'm Am I sorry? Um, >> he's a nice guy. Like the plane cunt.

>> Okay. Yeah, such a I was I was going to add things to your whole plane cunt anecdote and then but that was a self-contained thing. So, >> no, you can I now wanted to move on and rightly so. We we'd I just I think it was >> it was it was it was like um it was a moment in my life, right, >> as an adult having someone just do something so >> on a plane. It was a shock. >> But yeah, um okay, I'll just do a tiny thing here. See, here's what it is. >> Every single person, every individual one of everyone on a plane hates it there.

>> Yeah. So whenever someone is being like that, I get I get so angry because can't we all just agree that this sucks and wouldn't it just be so much easier if we all just like keep it inside and we don't take it out on each other? It's kind of like the same when I'm on the the subway or the metro in uh in Stockholm and and it's rush hour and and there's always someone like standing next to me who's like annoyed by everyone else there and I just want to go which this is literally your first day in Stockholm. This this is new to you. You've never had this before. Or do you come do you go into like uh a car every morning uh subway car and you're like wow this again and you're just as surprised and annoyed every morning fuck sake yes it sucks >> it sucks for everyone yeah I guess it's a selfish everyone >> like a propensity selfishness that's what it is >> and um and I I I always thought I was a selfish person you know but uh I don't

follow politics >> different kinds man different kinds and all you were trying to do was get off the plane and that guy is like, "No, I need to make this like uncomfortable situation mine. I need to assert myself here and now in this my babe." >> Yeah. Well, that was it. >> I agree. >> Um, so we are we are back. for anybody who I mean actually no for all intents and purposes we've time traveled now for the listeners because an hour and a half is maybe more two hours has passed since we left but for them nothing's changed and that's relativity >> so task masters where I was is I that was it was scared I was terrified of the concept of painting and then you two talked me around and told me uh this is going to be very weird for the listeners where no time has passed but where Oh, fuck. That was it though, right? That was basically the the the I'm going to I'm not going to do uh Golden Demon. I'm just going to do tabletop and it's going to be for my army. And have I thought of a color scheme? I think is where we left it. And I said red.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, I think just red. I think I'm literally think I'm going to emulate the second edition, guys. It might not be as easy. Mhm. >> There's a lot more details on it and but yeah, >> I am only about Oh, well, this is another like big thing is all of my most of my life I've just been trying to recreate other people's work more or less like be it on a Zur I copied the color scheme third edition Elder Project is is solely copying. So hopefully now that we're on our new journey cuz that is a segment of course. Um, hold on. Let me see if we even got a jingle for The Journey.

Probably not, right? >> I don't think we had. >> Yeah, probably didn't. It was Oh, no. We do. Shit. The Journey. >> It's a horror film. Did you hear the horror music? I did not expect that. >> Yeah, I think we just did one and then I was chastised by everyone for like, "This is shit." Right. Every every jingle that has your kids saying something is just makes me happy. So, >> yeah, but it's too it's too >> you can't slug a dead horse, you know? It's too You can't do the same thing over and over again. I want to I want to be creative. I want to be striving for perfection.

>> Subject of being creative. >> Right. We've done mine. Let's do your two. Your twos. >> Oh, right. >> And we do have we I think we've got four confirmed people are doing this task with us. Right. >> That's amazing. >> And it's the biggest fucking one we've ever done. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Now whether it's real remains to be seen. >> I have one planned on. >> I don't know if it will be the next one or the next one to that, but I have one planned.

>> Oh, another task masters. I see. So >> task master. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Damn. In fact, that's actually a really good idea. We alternate the task masters between us three. because then it will. So, I know we're jumping now Taskmasters, but I did want to talk about Monty and and Martin. >> So, let's just put a pin quickly in Taskmasters. Yours didn't get anything. Now, >> I I think it's criminal personally because they have so clearly when we were in the chicken shop, right?

Um, and everybody had their models out and I saw it across the tape. I was like, "Shit, man." It like I find there's a difference between seeing a model in real life and seeing a model on display. I can't fully explain why I think that, but for me, I think probably cuz there's so many and you're just like next, next, next. I already knew your piece. I didn't spend a whole long time looking at it when it was in the Monty stand, right? But again, when I saw it in the shop, I was like, "Fuck it. It's tight, man. It's it's very tight and it's nice to look at in my opinion." So >> appreciate it.

>> I can only assume that they don't like the style. >> I've heard um from my So I'm I'm very as as much as I'm uh like committed to and familiar with Golden Demon, I'm quite unfamiliar with Monte and also not very committed to it. And I feel like any kind of rationalization where I'll say like, oh, you know, it's not very important to me or other judges don't like Warhammer is it sounds like I'm just kind of being a poor loser. And I'm like, no, there's absolutely no way there's anything wrong with my painting.

It has to be this other arbitrary reason. But actually, from what I've heard, a lot of the judges, depending on who's judging, uh there's been judges who just really don't are not into Warhammer and definitely not into the heavy metal style. And we did have this year three uh current heavy metal painters competing and one of them did place and two did not. >> Uh and they're all really really great painters. So I guess there might be something to that. >> Were there styles >> you'll forget what you're going to say but I I'll go quick and then you we'll do them together. All right. Were their styles heavy metal was my first question. Those three guys are 1,000% heavy every metal as much as uh I'm I'm willing to define that. But yeah, it is definitely definitely >> when we were judging at NO, we we had to face the challenge of judging heavy metal against non-heavy metal.

>> Yeah. And we spent five hours discussing that uh because it's not it's it was not an easy discussion and also it was very easily influenced by prejudice positive and negative both. So and I'm not sure if they spent so much time discussing this. I don't think so. Maybe uh one of the things that the MPO they did very well is they established the basis of judging what what a figure should have in order to win something. And for masters, one of the key things that they told us to judge, which I agreed uh and Albert as well, was that um it had to excel at many many um characteristics or many values or whatever.

>> You've got a category. Yes, exactly. >> Then it Yeah. So, and we had um heavy heavy metal styleish in all three medals. We had in in bronze, in silver, and in in gold. And probably the the ones in bronze were the most pure heavy metal style with which they offered a really excellent technique, but they did not offer ambience. They did not offer um light interpretation.

They did not offer um storytelling or things like that. So maybe that's just spec pure speculation. It leads this. Yeah. Yeah. Go on. I've started writing down questions now because I don't forget them on WhatsApp. Basically, while you were talking, it made me think or question um and you answered it during it, but is are you judging styles aka do you judge is this heavy metal style good in that style? So, it could get you would place that, but yeah. No, obviously >> that's unfair. That's completely unfair because >> it's also semi unfair to Golden Demon style.

No, but it's it's it but they don't exist in a story telling in Golden still have >> of course it's it's you are judging them against other people that is doing the same. So you are choosing not to do stuff >> and and labeling it as a style. I'm not I'm not um trying to stab anyone. >> No, I I get the concept now. It's not a justification of not doing things that you can do because of the style and and some people because at NPO we we we were proven right that you can do um heavy metal style plus adding more more things. So it's it's about what are you offering with your painting.

>> Yeah, >> that's the pure the only question that that you have to answer. the the style doesn't matter because there's many styles. Obviously, the the heavy metal style is very recognizable and we all know it. But are you going to how do you judge an heavy metal style against a very loose brush stroy paint job? How do you judge them? You have to take the characteristics of both and and think how much stuff are they offering me. If if the heavy metal style offers me only technique and it doesn't offer me the rest of the of the list, but the other offers me ambience volumes but lacks technique, then the other wins. If it's the opposite and the heavy metal style offers me more things than the other one wins as well. So it's it's about um how much can you offer with your proposal if you know what I mean.

>> But you've seen my model so it's not it's not entirely hypothetical. >> No no it's hypothetical their decision. I don't know what they what they chose or what they >> I think it's it's it's in very informative though in general because it means that the two competition. So I left Monty and a lot of people did two two parts. A lot of people I don't I don't mind this part cuz I don't compete but everyone said Italians win, right? And that was like the metric you you ought to but that's separate. Then you've got the I left confused why you didn't win anything, Martin, right? Um and I'm not saying that you should have because I'm not the judges. I don't know what what they're doing and I'm not going to be that good a judge cuz I don't know that high level at masters but I'm still confused by it.

But but it shows me that at least NO and probably Monty um are vastly different from Golden Demon basically. >> Yes, >> the values that they put in there. I've always thought it was like a like a hypo not even hypothetical but like a rhetorical like kind of it's not defined uh if that makes sense like you couldn't clearly put labels on it but now I think you can basically I think you can say >> you can win in golden demon like um an exquisitly p like like ste's piece right >> you can literally win a slayer sword and golden demon and get literally nothing at at >> Monty yeah and that's >> I think Yeah, >> I think one issue with uh competitions outside of Golden Demon is comparing different pieces to each other. So Monte has an open system, uh the only one other I've really competed in is World Model Expo and it it has the same situation where you just have a very broad fantasy category. And ironically, I think Monte has like absurdly many

categories. Like there's so many different ways to give someone an award for something, but it's still like fantasy painting and then there's a master and a standard. And so some people entered a single bust and some people entered a single space marine. And you know, comparing my seven models to a single bust seems kind of difficult. Uh I mean I get what you're saying right now like you can still judge because you're not comparing them to each other actually you can still go what does this have that is interesting >> but ultimately I do find or at least people who walk away with having competed we do kind of end up comparing because you'll look at someone else and go >> I think comparing is inevitable. Yeah.

>> Yeah. It's going to happen. >> Yeah. Yeah. And so all I'm seeing is in my piece they didn't see anything. they didn't really like anything that they didn't see anything that they thought was interesting enough to give it an award. Um, and in some of the other pieces that were again like I would say not as technically refined or didn't have as much just hours put into them, >> they might have had uh better like you say ambient or light representation and then they got a bronze. There there's another thing which is Mont is probably one of those events that is on the on the completely opposite spectrum of GD. So they it's it's the same but the other way around. So it's probably probably you had a negative um >> handicap.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think I mean knowing those things first of all will help and then you can you can work out do I want to be put in that environment to test that stuff if that makes sense you know like like what I I know I'm already going to be like um lowered isn't the right word is it but uh well handicapped so why why bother and you could go enjoy the event right and enter but with with a different understanding but then again if it's if it's a hassle to bring the models blah blah blah.

Yeah, I think it's >> But all all handicaps are are nice to understand. >> Yeah, you can avoid it. >> You can learn from it. In Golden Demon, there's clear handicap which which is mistakes. They they penalize mistakes a lot >> uh rather than value good things. So, but you can learn from it a lot even if you don't agree. Uh same with with Monte or or SMC. they they value more the extras other than the hours spent. The hours spent don't matter. Uh so that's something also that can be useful as a as a thing to you know do a step up or if you know what I mean.

>> I do I I understand it and I agree with it. But I think that's where we get into this really difficult area which we've touched on before like who why are you doing what you're doing? Who are you doing it for? I think it's one thing to paint for competitions, but when you even have to feel like, well, this competition is going to award this type of creativity or this type of painting or if I do this, then these particular judges will like it. I think that's just >> No, but I'm not talking about this at all. I I would never ever care about the judges. What I mean is you have you can be open to criticism even if it's someone that you don't agree with, right? And to to be a better painter, to be a better artist, you have to be as open-minded as possible. And when going to places like this that are literally the opposite of you, what you can do is you can disregard them, which is absolutely fine, or you can learn from it, which is absolutely fine as well. Uh so

would it made you I mean if you wanted to improve as an artist um that's obviously only if you wanted to improve uh you could you could go everywhere and or or every single type of painter or type of style and and take everything in from their from their view. That's I I experienced that very much when I came to to England to leave before I I disregarded completely the the metal style. I didn't like it. I I >> even though you'd grown up with it.

Yeah, I I I grown up with it, but I I always saw it as um tabletop plus like a an an extreme um extremely refined tabletop, >> but not something that you have to take to make decisions or that you don't, you know, it's something that you have to do and you do it and the the the better you do it, the better. But when I came to live in England and and I see so many because in Spain obviously we had more like the loose style and and we value you know with the focus smoothness and all these things and big child. We we valued a lot expressivity and and I when I started my my journey with with Russes, I learned with all in all these ambient because in 2012 2013 a big child was starting light models all these things. So really it was the ambient I grew in while painting.

So when and when I came to live in England, I I saw a lot of of heavy metal style paint figures. I I talked to people that didn't agree with what I thought. It was the absolute norm, right? Uh and then I understood that there's value in both and both things can be beautiful. But does it mean that I I will paint? No, not at all. Does it mean that I can take things in from the meta style? For sure. The absolute dedication to it. The um yeah, insane. It's not about It's not only the care for detail, but the perfectionism even.

>> It is. I learned that from last Golden Demon. >> Yeah. >> Is is the levels that you guys they take it is phenomenal. >> Exactly. Why why not merge this with the more I don't know how to say it more uh pictorial style? You can you can definitely do it. You can put as much as much detail as possible and and also add as much complexity as possible. So it's not like the two are separate together. >> They're not the the the separate in as much as the competition allows it to be. But the competition, I don't give a shit how the >> competition. Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, that So that's what Martin's journey now. I'm allowed to call him what your journey is, uh, without you saying it, but it seems to be much more like, or all of us, we're painting, who are we painting for? Are we painting for ourselves or we painting two place? Right. Martin's fresh off the boat of getting a gold, right? And that was a hybrid or you pushed yourself to to not go to, do you

know what I mean? you you wanted to leave the heavy metal style a little bit or or enhance it, maybe not leave it. >> Yeah. No, for sure. For sure. But I think I think uh I found it interesting with this project and with like you just said with my journey, it's important that I I'm not changing anything, but I'm definitely evolving. M >> and like maybe that's just a pretentious word to say the same thing, but I really do think there's a difference >> because it's it's really about doing exactly what I want to do and what I find natural to do, but always finding whatever way I can add something extra or do something a bit more interesting.

And yeah, in some cases I guess changing, but not, you know, I it's hard to specify, but there were a couple things on this unit where I where I really thought like I'm gonna I'm going to push myself a little bit out of my comfort zone and try something new or or or even this whole like volumetric highlight thing is was just I did it way more than I'm used to doing and comfortable doing. And now looking at it, I think, wow, I could have done it way more. And I think you think so too now which is like again that kind of perspective where like >> that's the journey though I guess >> you that has to happen organically like there's no way I could have just gone >> and you may not want it.

>> Sorry but you you could not want it and that would be fine as well. >> Yeah. Yeah. That too. Exactly. But it's it's interesting to see like to look at it and think oh fuck I should have done this differently. But actually no it's probably this is the the kind of way it has to go. Um, yeah, but I'm I don't know. I'm trying not to take really kind of anything away from Monte. I I went over there thinking that um I have no idea who these judges are. And I'm excited to put my model on this big black satin shelf with everyone else's so that people can look at it.

And true enough, you know, a couple of days of people coming up to me and mentioning the squad. They were glad to see it in in hand. And it was a kind of I mean, I mean, a good reason to go to just have something to show off. And I was half tempted to like ignore the award ceremony. I thought I thought for a minute that you, Jamie, and Lionel might just go to the ice cream shop during the award ceremony, not before. >> I regret it. >> And I was like, fine, let's just do that. Let's ignore it. But then I felt like, well, maybe that just seems kind of arrogant. like we don't care about your stupid competition and I thought ah we have actually entered it would be kind of stupid not to even be there. Um but that was sort of my attitude towards it and maybe again maybe it just sounds arrogant like I I'm only here for Golden Demon but I really just um >> How did you know beforehand that you would be quote unquote punished?

>> I I assumed you would place >> you assumed. >> I did. Yeah. Yeah. I I thought why not like >> so last year >> last year um one of the judges was Andy Wardle and uh I was able to talk to him about why I didn't place afterwards and it was kind of useful. Uh it definitely he mentioned a few things that I already thought about and things that I want to try to work on and I think I kind of did and um what was I trying to say? Oh yeah, and he uh he did mention and a couple others people have mentioned that yeah they do sometimes literally like penalized games workshop models worm and stuff every metal style whatever.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I thought okay fine maybe that's the case. >> Um but it's there's something about the the award itself >> which is just weird. It occurred to me even more strongly with the the double whammy of Golden Demon and Monte where I was like winning a golden golden demon. I was like, "Wow, this is the nicest thing that's happened to me for so long. I'm so happy with this statue that I got." And I was like, "I'm not exactly sure why, though, because I got so much good praise and feedback and connections with people about it before that." But yeah, I I wanted the award apparently.

And then in Monte, um it was kind of that that same thing of like I don't I don't know what I would have thought if they gave me like a gold coin cuz I don't know who they are. Yeah, >> it would again just have been another way to like compare myself to other painters and go, "Oh, this guy just got a silver. That means I'm better than him." Like I I've I don't know. I don't really trust that. >> Yeah, I agree. >> I sort of get why you don't compete or know. >> Yeah, >> Golden shows. I think that the show gives us a focal point to go to.

>> So for that, I'm really grateful. Right. We have a we have a competition. we go blah blah blah. But yes, caring about the result. It's different for me. I've not been putting my soul out there, but I know for a lot of people they do and they want that feedback back. But they also hold that show as important or if not more as we do Golden Demon, >> right? Like I want to demon and I want I like you say, what difference does it make if you have one? But I'll be honest, it it's something that you've you've chased for your whole life. Yeah, >> you know, even if you've won one, you still want another one because it's the thing you care about. So, I do get the concept, but I also don't think the competition is about I don't see it as like um you are great like you know this justifies your existence because you've won gold or a sword or in my mind it's it's more like a competition >> and you're competing. Like I play football. When I won cups, I wasn't thinking I'm better than that person or I'm better than this. It was much more that was what I wanted to win and I've worked my ass off to win that thing and

that's how I see Golden Demon and that's >> analogy actually. >> Yeah, it's much more it's a competition rather than you're you're not competing against blah blah blah. Um, >> it's interesting. The recognition, I think, is interesting, too, because I I felt like winning Golden Nean made me happy for a lot of reasons, but one was that I thought, well, it's nice that the judges saw um, you know, that I had put a lot of work in it, I guess, and that it's very refined and, you know, it felt like a a good compliment. Um but then when our now didn't win anything on Neman, it made me really really upset because of the same reason cuz it was like well you know I kind of wanted to bring his entry and show it to them and like fucking look at this like what are you doing? Um, and uh, and less so with Stion because he was a finalist and I knew that they had taken his piece out and had a good look at it.

>> And Monte was kind of the same for like I was really happy that Albert got just about uh, the best award he could get and Maxim got best painted, which I thought, yeah, fuck yeah, he deserves to get that. Like, he's a really, really, really good painter and I'm happy that someone that I really uh, admire got that recognition. So, >> well, what's >> Yeah, I guess >> really interesting to go on what you're saying there is the episode we did two or three ago where we spoke about Golden Demon and Arnell's synopsis on that we're worried that Golden Demon is judging um like you can't have a certain style it won't place right uh if you enter something like Mark or like >> it's not like that but yeah >> sure I can't I don't know what the main point of it was, but it feels like the polar opposite of what Monty has done.

It feels like both competitions are doing similar things slightly different. Aka a more arty, highly refin yours, not the Yeah. Our now style. I'll coin it that Mark. You they aren't able to judge that because they don't understand it. Right. And now is that that was more or less the thing, right? It's like >> Yeah. No. And it's it's kind of what I think they're very much on the opposite end of the spectrum.

>> Marks is maybe even a better example like the fact that he didn't place in Golden Demon and generally get all kinds of awards in Monte. Yeah, exactly. >> Monte, they definitely appreciate him and his painting there and it's uh >> yeah, the word style style kind of tastes weird in my mouth. It's not exactly that, but it's just his skill, style, ability, whatever. So yeah, it's a combination. I guess you could coin >> style as being uh artistic in a weird way. Um I think all it really shows us in all of these situations is that you can't enter competitions looking for validation and you have to enter a competition. You can still be disappointed that you think you should have placed higher, >> but you it doesn't really matter and you should see it much more like a competition, I think, for just competing, right? Also, that's a beautiful sunset on now.

It is >> It really is of a sunset there. That's nice. >> Um, >> no, that's a really that's a very a good way to put it, Jamie. I think is is uh don't go to competitions for validation. go there for the exhibition, I think, which is what Monte was >> cuz I, you know, is a hassle lugging this Space Wolf Squad to Italy, but I did it cuz I thought I'd really want to show it off >> even just for for Jason cuz I thought, well, actually, he's going to want to see these. And he >> and he sat down with him in the ice cream shop for ages and thought, well, this was good thing I brought them then.

>> Yeah. Took a shitload of photos. And so, that was that was a big point of it, a big part of it. And then validation, you can get that from from a lot of places. But uh we should always be happy I think to um or um we should be enthusiastic. What am I trying to say? We should always show our stuff to each other. >> Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Sh. >> Yeah. At at the end of the day, it's like we we have uh Monty and and Golden Demon are like uh football and uh indoor football that you play with five guys in uh you know, I don't know the name in English.

>> Football >> in what? >> It's just the German word for football. >> Oh, okay. >> Or indoor football. >> Uh in Spanish is football salah, which is a football room basically. Um, and it's like if you are the best player in the world at at football room and you play football, normal football, you probably will freak out with the size of the of the field, right? And you will probably do shit, but you are the fucking best at football room then. I mean, just >> yeah, what's the problem, right?

>> Compete at your stuff if you want to compete. >> It's good to know. I'm I'm surprised that it's taken six years of going to see these differences, but I guess I wasn't talking over with people uh in depth for two hours, although we've not spent two hours. But yes, I uh I think I need to paint for myself still. And competitions won't help that. And I'm going to just enjoy. Yeah, I'm not going to paint for a competition. As I said, I used to only paint for competitions.

>> Yeah, you paint. Yeah. And if you if it if you have something when a competition comes, you can bring it. >> Yeah. Until I want to start winning and then I can pop it. Yeah. >> I mean, yeah. Like we joke about your Azerman Ferante, but like you should absolutely enter something if you painted something >> and and if you painted something and you think it looks good, doesn't matter if if you entered it before or if it you did it six years ago. >> Yeah. I'm going to I'm going I've I've made a promise to myself as I did a few years ago that I will always enter Monty with a Zurban like no matter what.

>> Okay. So, uh I'm going to have to get really really good at painting to place with my piece, you know, my cuz you enter a whole thing in, right? >> So, I'm going to have to paint things that are so good that that that gets bronze and then I can stop bringing Yeah. Yeah. Well, it will bring it down, right? >> Is that No, I don't think so. I don't think so. >> I think it does. They they judge the whole thing, right? >> No, if if they do, they are assholes. >> I Well, let's find out. I It's a good question, actually. But I think they just pick one like they pick what they think.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Usually, I mean, if you have two that are the same level and you have to choose one of the two, you will choose the one that has better overall display. But if you can award both, you will award both. >> Fuck. That means I'm going to literally be taking that to the rest of my life. Um, Albert sent a photo of the last two years in the book. I need to try and source out 2022 book to have three photos of a Zur in that book. >> So, just quickly, you're not you're not so keen on painting competitions then, but you said before that you're that you were inspired by Golden Demon.

>> What is that? >> You are now, right? >> Uh, you Jamie. >> You me or are now? But really me or you just saying that cuz I asked? No, you you I think you said that you came home and I and I said the same and that you came home from Monte not super inspired but inspired by Golden Amen. I'm just wondering is that just you're eager to paint generally or did you see the competition and went fuck something switched in? >> Golden Demon was more like culmination of what we have been talking about all this. I thought you just happened to be the first >> and then I I guess.

>> I don't know. Uh, no. The thing is we barely looked at the fucking pieces in all honesty. Did we? >> And I barely looked at them in Monty. I I I've I've always struggled like to look at pieces in any kind of I' I've never been able to do it and go, "Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow." Well, I mean, we spoke about it. >> Maybe it's because we talked about painting. >> Yeah. And then we finally got together and then we were just uh um a bubble of like for inspirational pieces from Mont um Golden Demon like what were there really like what what pieces should I think oh that inspired me um >> so far here.

>> Yeah. But that also showed me that I won't get to that level. remember this was the whole when I that was Stan's piece was the was the piece that made me it sort of set me free. It was like there is like there's no spoon. It's it was that kind of feeling. Right. I saw it and I was like I don't want to do this. Right. So it actually set me free from from because that's what I've been chasing Stan's piece. Right. I would probably do it in a turquoise or a purple. My favorite colors, but that like and it I just realized for me to get that good.

I'm um my kids knocking on my door. I've locked it though. I knew this would happen. Um and that's why >> you take the closer now. >> So I'm trying to talk quietly so he doesn't hear me so it doesn't kick off. I realized to to get to that level, the filing, everything, the free hand. Um, >> yeah, >> as a piece, this the base, I don't have that. I don't have that anymore. And I I used to, that's what I used to chase more than anything. I spent like 120 hours on a single elf, you know, and the thing is, I actually really enjoyed that. So, it's I I talking myself out of this. But when I did that elf back then in 2018, I there wasn't I was no point of painting that was I fed up or bored. I enjoyed the whole process, right? Um and actually that was probably weird. That was actually the time after that I started losing love with the hobby cuz I started learning like really started trying to learn and I had that whole like two years of learning blah blah blah maybe one year. Okay. Well, anyway,

now that I'm here, that piece, when I saw that, it f it just pulled everything together when I saw Stan's piece, and I was like, "Right, I've been I've been fucking muddling over different styles and things and stressing about it doesn't look like this, and I want it to look like this." And now I can finally say, "I don't want to recreate that. I want to recreate something a bit more free, less stressful." It seems stressful. I think that's honestly what it is. Like the stress that these guys heavy every metal and the same in Monty when I talk to these guys they always seem stressed like fuck I did all this and I didn't get this and this was great but this was bullshit and you know I I I never hear anybody maybe that's normal or maybe it's just human nature. They don't want to be like it's a you know it's a great piece and they're not they don't just want to go do you know what it was fucking easy. I loved it. Maybe not easy but you know I had a great fun doing it.

I don't hear many artists being sitting down in a room full of other artists going how how did you find like do you know what I loved it I love the process >> about that too man it's it's >> it's like the more you suffer the more people respect it >> well yeah it might be that it might be that you uh subconsciously or not you think that the more you explain your suffering then yeah people will respect you more >> uh for me I I really I really almost felt like I didn't want to share how much I hated >> uh everything about my piece when we went over to Germany.

>> But the pros or you don't like playing this, so I'm not going to >> cuz you didn't share it to us. We were very not hurt but confused. And the same with why I now didn't share that piece with me earlier. >> It is very different. It's very different though. >> Well, it was mostly to do with just the pictures being bad. I'm going to try to sort that out actually >> and uh keep you guys in the loop. But yeah, it was just Sorry. Say what you were going to say. >> No, no, I wasn't. I I was laughing at the fact that you didn't want to I I actually laughed a little bit for X and a little bit in my head. I was laughing that you you care what we think that much that you don't want to seeing shitty photos. And that made me laugh because it means are you painting for you or are you painting for for everyone else?

>> Man, that's the big question. That's the big question right there. >> That's the meat of it, >> too. I know that you you mentioned what it was like painting as a kid and I know exactly what it was like. uh not so much kid maybe when I was like 16 17 I had a good long run of buying a blister pack of some something that was cool anything in the warmer shop going home painting it >> probably in like two days uh after school just painting it as cool as I could going back to the warmer store and then showing it off to like the staff and then buying a new one >> and there was I mean I guess you could say I was like painting it to show off and that's how I into the competitions, but it was really like I was really I was get every one was better than the last one.

>> It's inevitable to feel a little bit pressured uh like to you you have inevitably fear of being judged for something not as good and setting a level that is not yours like this. You know, I think it's inevitable and we all have that. >> I agree. Yeah. When I was young, I I remember painting, going taking my bottles into school and showing the people. No one painted. They didn't They literally did not give a fuck. I was still No, we played Warhammer, but they were like all colors and they looked like shit. We were like 12, 13.

>> The friends that I had who played Warhammer, they wanted to play outside, like in the backyard. That's how little they cared about their paint jobs. >> Yeah. But I I do agree with the sentiment. I was I was I remember showing them and talking with people who were better and blah blah blah and so there was obviously but it's oh man this is a this is fucking it's it's opening a lot of it >> yeah I know but it's like >> meat and sides >> there's difference though I think there's difference cuz at the moment I was painting I was learning I was still enjoying the process back then so even though I was showing people I sat down because I wanted to pain and I wanted to produce good stuff now or before I broke and had my mental Warhammer breakdown. I wasn't enjoying the process and I also wasn't really showing off that much cuz I wasn't proud of what I was doing. So like I can't show you this thing cuz I think it looks like shit compared to what I what I want to produce. So

yeah, it is inevitable that you would just fade away from it. But that's kind of all I had to say on that there. I think I I'm not paid for >> being excited to show something is is a really good sign and it can be a a very good sign of of two things. Either that you're very um very comfortable with what you have done and you you think it's very good or you just had a lot of fun and you want to share it with your friends.

Both are very good but if I think I don't know which one is more difficult to achieve probably the second one uh being so honestly happy about your time spent that you want to share it. It's something that it doesn't it's not as common as maybe being happy with your piece. >> I think the more fun I had painting the more I'm excited to show. I feel like there's a direct correlation because you're like, "Look at this thing I really enjoy doing versus like >> Yeah, I think it's it's true >> cuz normally if you're having fun doing it, you're you're you're producing good stuff, right?

>> Yeah. >> There's like a direct correlation a shower. >> I was very excited to show the this this bus that I was painting just because >> yeah, >> literally I was having a lot of fun. like you you actually shared it, which is super rare for you. You're not sharing son of a bitch. Um, so >> I could share literally like five pictures a day and and all of them would be different. >> What's what's fucking interesting about on a personal level is I feel like I buy something, I fucking share it to you too.

>> Or like I you know, I go on a I go I look I read a book, I'll share it. I'll talk about and I don't know where >> I have a video of your son taking a dump in my phone. >> You go. Yeah. Right. For example, he was going like this, man. It was very very funny. He was going but he was pretending. He was pretending. Okay. He had done a dump already. So it >> I didn't hear. >> Yeah. You didn't hear the plop. >> No. No. There's no plop there. Maybe there's So this this is the like the quintessential. I have to understand that not everybody wants to share as much as I do.

>> To be fair, I I don't do it just because I'm so in in my own >> in the zone. >> Yeah. I It's not because I don't want to. >> If if I had an alarm that said that, you know, and like send a picture, then I would probably >> You have to You have to go where your your soul takes you. You just do what's natural, right? It just means I think you're a piece of shit. Yeah. Um, so was I joking? No. Um, meat of it. No. Uh, fucking >> That's masters.

>> Exactly. Right. You two lay it on me. Lay it on me. Damn. >> Three years later. >> I'm I'm trying to figure out uh So, I was thinking I should I kind of wanted to paint it like the box art and then I realized ah that sucks. I'm not going to do that. And you can do something. No, no, no, no, no. >> I have to do something more interesting than that. So, I'm going to figure out what that is. >> Okay, >> fuck that. I'm not doing it just yellow with like black and I'm not doing it red with like red flames or yellow flames.

Um, >> yeah. Well, just just the the two. That's what what GW orcs look like, you know. So, I'm going to do something else with it. And then uh a base that complements the armor color. That's what's up. So, so soon as I get these sprews, I'm going to stick something together and then the old gears are going to start grinding. >> I'll have something. Orcs are fun that way. Oh, I was going to say, Jamie, as well, the new um orc transfer sheet >> is dope. It has a lot of great shit on it. Yeah, it's amazing. So, whatever you do with your orc army, you can stick some nice pictures on it and it's going to look awesome.

>> That's good. >> Like, even if you just spray it red and >> and just do them on and that's my taskm. Fuck you. Mini matters facing me. >> Yeah, you could you could literally do three colors like shit tournament. >> I'm very very well verssed at that now. >> I'm very well verssed at just doing the base and the basic colors and just playing with it and no one cares even remotely. >> Um, if they do, they have a problem. You said you you sounded like you had some real ideas are now like you were going to take this Kilikan to the next next level.

>> No, not at all. I mean obviously I will still do uh it's it's still a task master so I'm not going to dedicate more than I don't know 3 days or something like that. >> Quite a long time for you. >> Three days >> depend on a box art. I mean >> the same four five yeah depends. Um, but I do have an idea. I bought an extra piece actually from another kit because I heard that's it. You believe the shit?

>> Um, no, it's it's just a stupid thing. But, uh, yeah, I bought it and I already started assembling it. So, >> Oh shit. >> Shit. >> Yeah. And I even bought >> the plan and stuff. >> It sounded like you had a specific idea. You don't have to say what it is, but do you you was like a concept for a little Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah, it's I mean it's a I I'm going to um BJO gave me the new the new metallic range, the true metallic range, which is really cool and I'm going to use that.

And also I I bought some products that are extremely cool for working metals and stuff like that. And I'm gonna do some experiments with this and some other stuff. So basically it will be a mad scientist project because I I have no clue what I'm going to do because everything I will use is new. So basically it's Liberty. >> Yes. >> Well, what are we uh I think uh I call him MJ cuz his name's Michael TJ or something. Whatever. LJ LG. Fuck me. Are we going to share?

Are we going to share or we going to finish and then share? I'm going to do whips. I think >> whips. >> I think so. I basically don't think anybody any anybody can do what they want is what I actually think. >> Yeah, of course. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't have to be consistent. I might do a whip. Whips is good. >> Yeah. I mean, I like the idea of the road to GD thing where >> we all build up until the reveal, but it's true that it can be a bit boring during the thing if we don't share anything.

>> Yeah. Uh I my Yeah. Well, that's it. I think we need to I mean, if we really have seven of us doing it, >> in my opinion, we should share it between us >> for sure. 100% and then with the viewers or the listeners maybe we can think about it if we're doing the reveal or not. >> I will if everybody does share a whip in the group not you two all the other though like yeah Paul and um Michael and I think the other guys who got them. I'll do a I mean we only have a couple of followers but I'll do some Instagram posts with all of them in one and if we do get enough then we can all share our things and then um we're not we're not going to get a movement on this from anyone else obviously.

>> No. >> Yeah. >> It's it's a commitment that's for sure. >> Now is one >> unless it's hard. >> Um well shit 2 hours 10 minutes. It's a good is it? >> It's a good episode. >> It is a good episode. It's cuz we had two meets of it. Um, if anyone is still listening to this episode, I expect your lives will have changed. >> So, you're welcome. >> Yes, >> mine has. Um, okay. What other segments did we have? Nothing, right? >> I mean, is is it worth doing any other segment?

>> I don't think so. I think we're done. Well, we didn't we didn't do any of the Dr. Love Brush. >> Yeah, we have fuck >> that's a fuck ton of them, right? that we will definitely really like complicated our now questions where how do I become our now fundamental level >> then what we'll we'll either do one of two things we'll find another time to record a secret episode basically I think we need uh this is non podcast shit people don't need to um >> I mean it's a good idea to do a which episode is this 13 >> 14 maybe Dr. Love Brush. No, we can do a lot to Love Brush. Um, standalone, right?

>> Special episode. Special. >> Um, all right. Let me check. Analytics episodes. Dun fucking D. Did I tell you I'm going to do I'm I'm I'm I'm going to try 12. So, this is episode 13. I'm going to try and do um a what the fuck is Monty video with a a talk over explaining what is actually Monty. >> Good footage. >> It's literally just going to be about the restaurants. I just want to tell you that now. There's going to be so little. >> Oh, yeah. Okay, good. Cuz I think that's the reason why most people go.

>> I think so. Yeah, that's the reason why people should go. >> I agree. Um I do agree. So the Golden Demon video that we did, the post Golden Demon, well, us three is our second most ever popular video. And and that's including season one. Season 1, episode one is still our most popular. And this is like >> season one episode. Episode one >> is our most popular episode. >> Literally the first one >> still now. >> What the fuck? >> I think because it's the first one people see. >> Yeah, exactly. I think a lot of people gave the podcast a chance by putting on the first one >> and then they were like >> and they Yeah, we fucked us over.

>> Yeah, but that's, you know, the drag societ here, man. Only the real ones are still here. >> Exactly. I mean, if it made us money, I would accept the shit ones back. People should send us more free stuff. It's a I would not say no to a company sending us paints, all three of us, and then for the next 10 episodes, we can wax lyrical about those paints. Do you know what I mean? I think that's a really good marketing campaign. >> I think Veo's already got their money's worth. >> No, they need more. I think Vallejo should send me their paints and their brushes because apparently they're amazing. I'm not condoning free shit. I don't know. But if they sent us, we could try them.

If they send them to us, they will be amazing. Exactly. >> Right. Then that fucking squidgy squid thing should send us them as well. They're like square pots and they're highly pigmented. >> They're squidgy squid. >> Yeah, sure. That's >> They're like this and then they have >> What are we talking about? >> Paint. Paint. >> Really high pigmented. >> Which? >> Chamra. >> Chimera. >> Exactly. Do you realize how it's it's nowhere near the the name?

>> I think what he's saying is that a chimera the symbol itself, the logo is a chimera, right? >> Oh, I have no idea what a chimera is. >> Yeah, >> that's not what you meant. >> No, I meant you squeeze them. >> Oh, never mind then. You squeeze all the paints. >> Yeah, but they especially squidgy squidgy. like the paint goes and it leaves like a little thick line of unless you use some of the purples. Anyway, look, the point is we are not below bribery. Okay. And we are not >> Yeah. If you if you want to get featured on an episode for a long time, we we are up for that free shit. Do you know what I mean?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. You can send like uh bed sheets, spark plugs, um cardboard, just any money, but >> I'll take it. Tell me. I mean, to be honest, yeah, on that vein, just send us all your old shit. Do you know what I mean? Use brushes, empty paint. >> Yeah, fucking hell. Why not? >> Is going to write his home address and just send absolutely everything you have. any tribe or bullshit. Um, I sent my I sent this podcast to um uh autistic um or spectacics, right? I sent I sent the And >> don't send him this episode.

>> Well, he wouldn't listen. I kind of was like, he's not into painting and all that. I sent him and he says, "Oh, yeah. I haven't had time to listen, but good model on the front, mate." I was like, "That's nice of him." He because there's a thumbnail of Farcia, the one I painted. I thought it's nice of him to humor me with a compliment even though he didn't listen to it at all. Obviously, that's got nothing to do with um sending us free stuff. >> Yeah. No, but again, if if people are still listening to this, the two of you that are, I mean, free stuff. >> And also, we lost four.

>> We lost four. Yeah. It was a bad golden demon. We said to him, "Well, I'll be interested on the kickback of the China man text Singapore." I was laughing at myself when I was in IKEA with my daughter um at the fact that uh Singapore's not in China. >> It is not. >> Yeah. And I just I literally chuckled to myself. She's like, "What's funny, Dad?" I was like, "Honestly, I can't explain it, but let's go and look it." Anyway, free stuff. Okay. The only thing about free stuff is I think you have to be good to get free stuff. >> Don't you have to have some listeners?

Do you know what I mean? Like I'll I'll show you some people who are not good who get free shit. >> Yeah, but they probably got like 100,000 viewers or something. >> No, I've seen so many people that get free shit and it's not like Yeah, they're random. >> Oh, well. I mean, the most important thing is we're together, right? >> Always. >> Yes. So, >> I was hoping one of you would say no, but that's fine. Um, right. I mean, I'll see you later. >> Yeah, I guess. Yeah, thanks. Have a good weekend.