Albert Morete Font How to Win a Slayer Sword

Mini Matters, a miniature painting podcast. >> Welcome everybody. It's good to be back. Post where are we now? Monty post GD Monty. What else did you guys did? SMC as well, I guess. And Freak Wars. >> And Freak Wars. Yeah. >> Now you mentioned it. There's been so many events. >> Yeah. Well, luckily this is >> for example. And also the um beautiful I don't know. I didn't go. Fen show. Um, well, welcome Albert and obviously the other two. Yeah, >> if anybody didn't know. Yeah. Well, you part of the furniture now, aren't you really? I mean, you are as well, Albert.

And really, when when you've got four best friends forever, >> then uh special things happen. Um, so it is it is a post postnut. No, it is a post um event episode. Um, and we do have we do have the normal segments, but not all the normal segments. So, we're skipping a few things that aren't related. Um, we could possibly do a Grotbusters on the spot Gropbusters. Um, but we are here. We got news. That's one thing we've got. We're talking about artwork. That's one thing we got.

>> We're talking about do shows suck in general. That's one thing we got. >> We We've also got judging. a lot of information on not I don't know about info on judging conversations about judging. We've also got why do artists digress or decrease in quality or basically become shit at a certain point? Um and >> some of them is >> yeah well I mean that's part of the conversation. Does everybody naturally go that way eventually? Well, but that

is that is where we're going to go in this episode. So um I hope you're all good boys. How are you since the uh And I'm not obviously we're all ill still. >> Yeah. Do >> we? >> Oh, no. You didn't go. You don't get to say that you're not ill. You took you were like on holiday. >> I'll make I I'll make that like I'm ill. >> Thanks, mate. >> Fake off and >> sympathize with you were you were sick after Essen, which I think is the same virus. So, like in the last couple months, we've all had it. >> Yeah. I mean literally uh my just before so I now didn't know the story about the asshole you know my kid's bum hole right and um just just as when before you two were here I was just explaining I was like yeah so I was just creaming my son's asshole right and I was like what and then it suddenly dawned >> on remember something about this but I'm pretty I erased it from my mind or or yeah I'm just imagining it because >> so for reasonable that you would have heard something similar, >> right?

>> I It's possible that I It wasn't really a thing in Essen, though. It might have been. It's a very new thing. >> I mean, I've known you for a while, and >> I mean, this weird shit is normal. It's not weird. It's normal. >> I remember I was at a party. I I will tell you all the story, the listeners. I was at a party, right? It was like my daughter's fifth birthday or or um sixth birthday. And there were two I was two the two women next to me like one quite hot and one just normal right just to paint the scene. Um and bearing in mind my wife's their kids there and obviously you know I'm married so it wouldn't matter anyway but maybe there's a certain level you're like you don't want to come across too disgusting. I don't really have that and and this story will tell you why but it did make me think.

So um I was like oh do you ever like get annoyed by changing your kids nappies like when it's full of shit right? and she she thought she was like, "Yeah, it was a bit annoying." Like her kid's probably like five now, so she doesn't do anymore. And I was like, "Well, this trick isn't for you. It's for the other the woman next to who had a young kid." And when I discovered this trick, it really revolutionized changing nappies, right? Changing a nappy, they've done a shit, you get a wet wipe, you you clean it all up, you do blah blah blah, right? And then you throw it away, and then you put a new nappy on. Well, I worked out that you don't have to do that. You grab them and you just fucking put the the bath the tap on in the bath and just clean their asshole like this with water flowing. Right. So all the shit just goes in the bath and you're just clean.

Right. And I I was explaining to this I was like it's changed my life. I said I said admit admittedly it got a bit bad one time when I smelt my hand afterwards and I realized you do need to wash your hands after but for a while I hadn't been. >> This I remember. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Me maybe me as well. And she looked at me and I realized I shouldn't have told that story to her. I was like, why? I I was I was genuinely expecting like fuck that is a lifesaver. Like that will save me hours of time cuz cuz sometimes when they do a crap and you haven't noticed, that's that's why this thing's good, right? Let's say it's a 2hour shit. It's dry in the ass. I'm I'm really looking forward to seeing how uh YouTube come up with um the algorithm for this episode. Anyway, enough about shit. But the water really helps. Oh, no, not enough about shit cuz the asshole. Anyway, he's he's suddenly worked out now, my youngest that um yeah, I won't even bother explaining it actually. It's all fine. I've got kids.

Um so, welcome to Mini uh to Mini Matters. Any

new >> You want to segue from that into something that I am covered on or Yeah. No, you did. Yeah. >> Um and obviously names. >> Well, no. I've got I'm doing an intro or a little Since we last did a podcast with Alberto, >> he has done something quite impressive, I dare say. Um, he he won a sword. He won his second sword in three years. Four years if you want to get technical. But, >> um, I feel like it should be like a life tribe achievement award. Do you know what I mean? Like where they hand you a little like book and it's got like photos and like montagey shit.

Um, now we do have a fast faster as a race car planned for you, Albert, so some of the questions might come up, but was it anticlimactical or was it everything you hoped and dreamed that it might be? >> Well, obviously I was super happy, you know, but I have to say the sword uh two years ago felt a bit more special because it had been so many years since I had won my first one. >> Yeah. >> So, because the first one I won like when I was 18, right? Yeah. 19 years. >> So when I won the second one after what, like 17 years or or however long, it felt like, oh shit, I did it again, you know, after so long, you know, and then now I I won my third one, but it's it's so recent that they won my second one.

So well, I mean, obviously it felt absolutely amazing, >> but it wasn't quite as special, I guess. >> So that could be the meeting. >> Does that make sense? I mean, >> of course. Of course >> it does. Yeah. Yeah. in a big way actually makes sense >> because the second one it still feels very recent in in my memory you know the golden demon in Manchester and so on so this one felt a bit more like a deja vu I kind of thing you know not just the winning but also what happened after with all the messages that I got on Instagram and and and all the you know the YouTube videos where people are reviewing the the the entries. So the the second and the third one feel very similar as opposed to the first one which was in in an age when there was no social media and and and no such thing. So >> that's interesting. The first one was still the most important to you.

>> For sure. For sure. Because the first one is where you turn from a non-sort winner into a sword winner, right? >> You're in a new category. >> That's obviously the one that m that feels the most special. >> It's it's I suppose it's like anything

competitive. It really is. anything competitive when you when you've set your mind on a goal and then you finally get that is how do you remotivate yourself, you know, like it's it's hard to just keep winning and you are I don't know. Does everyone know that you're the you've won four in a row now? >> Probably, I guess. >> Yeah. Well, they do now if they didn't. Well, not everyone because we don't have any listeners, but uh for all the listeners that are listening, um yeah, four in a row. How do you keep the motivation going? This isn't this isn't an integration uh interrogation. This is just >> Yeah. No, I understand. Well, it's because I didn't really produce this model because I wanted to win another sword. I did this model because I wanted to do this model. You know what I mean?

>> I I just enjoy the process. And if there had been no Golden Demon, I would still have done this this piece, you know? Maybe not to the same deadline of course because deadlines always help you know push with with you know finishing projects and everything but as the idea I I would have done anyway and I guess with with every piece I try to learn new things and as long as I feel like I learn something even if it's like a small thing then it's just a worthwhile project. Do you feel like there was nothing creative that that you any creative choices that you made because of this was 4 GD? I'm thinking about like we know what the categories and the rules for the categories look like. So wasn't there anything where you >> I mean of course not specifically for GD I may have used bits from other ranges for example in my conversion right >> or I could have um yeah I don't know the approach would have been different for sure but that

that is not at the expense of of me want of me doing what I wanted to do if that makes sense. So basically you have these boundaries that are clear from from the outset and then within these boundaries you do whatever you want to do. >> Yeah. Well, could could you do could you do you think you have an idea of like when did you start to think about because I know that we've messaged about who was entering which category pretty early on which is kind of just I guess a fun thing like you and me and Steen were talking about who's showing up in that kind of list of all the entries like when do you reckon you started thinking about where you were going to end up in that sort of mix? when did you start to see your entry as being a part of that competition as opposed to just something you wanted to do?

>> So, so the the idea of making a wizard quintessentially, you know, fantasy wizard with, you know, all the potions and and spell books and everything I had had for a long time actually. And I remember when I was in Warhammer World a few years ago, I remember speaking with Max with Max Fal and telling him like I think maybe it must have been after the elf probably and I was telling him like yeah you know some sometime I would like to do a wizard as well in a similar vein. Um and and he was saying like yeah like these tropes always have some uh something special about them. Right. So the idea I had had for a long time and then what really made me go for it and and realized uh the idea was uh FOMO 100%. It was a depon because I was and

you know that Martin because when I was in Sweden in February was it or March maybe. I was still doubting you know whether to do a large scale piece that I have ready for painting sculpted by Alan Krasco or to to do this wizard right and then Adepton happened and I saw everyone having fun at GD and I was like yeah I need to do that you know I cannot not do something. I I I do remember it was really funny because it was it was like you had exactly that kind of choice where you were trying to decide which one to do and then that flip kind of flipped you over to that side. But it was the same for like me and Steen. All the the engine literally started right after Adepticon when we saw all that good stuff. That was when we started like moving towards our own GD.

>> Yeah. Exactly. And also if I had done the big scale one I wouldn't have finished it by this year. So in 2025, I wouldn't have had anything new. >> Do you think that this decision of because you you you were doubting about going with with a small small piece for Golden Demon and do you think that the fact that you chose to do it and you won the slayer sword will influence when you have doubts in the future? >> Um, >> you know what I mean? >> More or less. Um but no I don't think so cuz my mind right now is set in in doing the large scale one uh next.

>> It's a big mistake >> cuz actually I have had it I I have had it for a couple years and it's about time that I that I uh that I do but also because I like um you know changing things. you know, I've been doing Warhammer scale for the last three years now, and I'm kind of uh looking forward to doing something large scale where you can play with, you know, the level of detail, of course, is different, right? And I kind of missed that uh a little bit. So, >> shaking things up a little bit, you know, >> if you choose to do the the large scale next year, do you think you will do something smaller for GD or not or do nothing at all?

>> Uh, I'm not sure. I know it's very early on, but >> yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I could try to do something. I mean, like the the Gorgamora Grot that I did for the Notting MD, right, on the the stones, I did that in a couple months, actually. Um and and the and the shaman, the goblin shaman, that one golden single fantasy, I did that in one month. So, it's not like I cannot produce something, you know, beautiful, I guess, or or, you know, in shorter in a shorter month. the the the issue rather than this is will I will my head space be ready to to switch projects if I'm working on something large scale >> yeah because when I work on a project my mind is fully invested in that project >> and that's all I think about you know all my free time I'm thinking on how can I make it better you know how will I tackle this part or how will I you know fix this bit or or or approach this this this other bit or whatever so if my mindset is in in in in this other project all of a sudden cutting it, you know, putting a stop to it, a hold to

it, even if it's a temporary one, and moving on to something else is is not something that I'm used to doing. I mean, I could potentially, but I I don't know if how easy it would be to then get back to the to the first project, you know. >> Um, whilst, as I tell you, my new my new way is writing down notes during I think it's brilliant. I just probably because I've never been organized but um let's see if I can understand my notes. I I have told you something in the end after five or six years of knowing you, Jamie. >> You finally I finally Well, so you said

that you enjoy this is you enjoy any project cuz you learn something, right? And I do agree with that in almost every everything I do as well. You there's tangible things that you really do learn. I I kind of thought pushing having a competition really pushes you to learn, right? Because you have to push yourself to perform. So, if you're committed to a competition, which uh three of us are at least, well, that's weird because I'm not, so two of us are at least. Um, like don't you feel that you get to learn a lot more from having these huge kind of stakes or uh same for you Martin, right? Cuz you you pushed yourself to try and complete this and are now uh didn't so like >> without Yeah.

>> Yeah. No, sorry. I was about to say I guess the easy answer would be to say yes. But in reality, not really for me because even if there was not a competition, I would still try to do my models as best as I possibly can. And and in fact, I mean, when when there was COVID, right, and I still painted and and I didn't do those models for any particular competition and I still tried to do them to to the utmost of my ability. So I think if anything competitions push with deadlines, right, with not extending projects for for too long. But in terms of quality, at least in my in my personal case, not not really because I would Yeah. still try to to to produce the best possible >> Sorry. How about pressure? Because when when I have um a piece that I'm doing, you know, that I am investing myself and I invest myself like one tenth of what you do and I still um create some sort

of pressure for myself for this piece has to be good and um so you you must feel pressure somehow because you want it to be good, right? >> Yeah. Um, do you think that that makes uh an impact in in the painting? >> Uh, in the painting? Maybe. Maybe in the sense that I as sad as this makes me perhaps this makes me more risk averse that than I would like to be >> you know cuz you know it's it's so easy right to to stay in the comfort zone and do things that you know that you're comfortable doing. So I mean and you kind of discussed this in your latest podcast I believe when you were speaking about this non-metallic helmet that you had painted, right? So I think that definitely there is somehow I mean to to an extent anyway an impact in not wanting to to to you know try out things that you're really not comfortable doing

if you're doing a piece for a competition. Um but still even within that I like I I like to still try to to do new things like in this case for example in the wizard's case I was doing a lot of glass uh work which I had not really done before. I mean, obviously I have painted the the odd bottle here and there, but in this case, you had like the palunteer and you had like a million bottles of different shapes and whatever. And I tried I tried a different I mean uh different approaches actually until I kind of reached, you know, a way that I thought was beautiful. So yeah, I guess I did learn something there.

I feel like if you go jogging by yourself, right, and you've got a personal best that you're trying to reach, you've got a target and you've got a real thing and and the odds are you will be able to sort of knowing if you right in this run, I'm going to try and beat my personal best, right? You you can you could probably do it, but if you have someone next to you do like your your mate who also is doing their personal best, you will for sure outperform yourself. um like I don't know on a factor but you will do better with somebody else pushing you even if you had that in mind right and that's kind of what I think the competitions are good for >> so I know that you would paint yourself but just that that fear of failure I think really pushes you not you but in like well you two Martin and Albert like you're like fuck it's been however many years it was since you won Martin you're like I really want it so I'm going to push myself and Albert but you're like I need to get the gold to equal the that the sword is like less important. I don't know. I'm putting words in your mouth there, but like >> yeah,

>> this thing you're you're saying, I think it it can be extrapolated to the whole industry actually >> because uh before we had and and I missed that and I hate that I missed it, but before we had the Spanish team, which was a forum uh that was literally that it was people pushing each other to become better. That's why Spain is one of the main um countries in miniature painting because of that, right? >> And I I I feel like this has been lost a little bit and probably this ties together with why people is going backwards instead of of evolving. Uh there's some kind of um lack of of challenge between between people because we are too too afraid to to to challenge people right in >> uh it's interesting you >> it is really interesting with sorry >> well I was >> okay

>> yeah you go >> okay >> um no it's interesting what Albert's with like what does competitions give and why do we do it? I think deadlines is one thing and it's a big big thing. Uh especially when you've done it a few times like I I can kind of gauge how how long something is going to take. not only like can I finish it in this time but can I maintain the momentum that's going to give me kind of the best results but then there is something to to be said for like the quality as well cuz I I wanted my DD entry to be as good as possible which is sort of a vague like I'm trying to make it good where I think it's good but there's also that kind of weird extra like I want it to have a good chance so I will actually think about the competition And I don't know, that's maybe not the best approach, but it's kind of inevitable cuz I'm I definitely paint things for Golden Demon now. I I really don't think it would be the same if I was just doing something like for for fun. It's such a hard hard thing to try

and define what that means to do something just for fun, just for myself. Um, I do know I've painted a couple things in the last year that were like maybe for sort of gaming or something. Uh, not that I really play games, but but I did and it was it's just it's definitely not as good. There's not the lack of stakes. >> Yeah. >> That's all it is really. >> It's relaxing. >> No one cares if it looks good. And then who cares why they excuse, right? >> Yeah. Exactly. And it's pretty arbitrary anyway. like it's not no one cares if I win a golden demon except me and it doesn't even really matter who the judges are. I just need to make up something in my mind. I need to create stakes. And it's interesting what Arnau is saying about this sort of like spurring on by other people. Uh it can kind of be anything. It can be your friends. It can be a forum. It can be a competition. It can be yourself. But you you do kind of need that.

>> Two good examples. Um, oh shit. I've got three things I wanted to say now. First one, I'll reel them off quickly. Right. First one is, interestingly, Albert painted and won gold and silver with two pieces he hadn't planned to enter, which means Albert's lowest level is a high level, right? Um, most normal painters probably have to say, "Okay, I want to compete in X. I'm going to push myself." Albert Albert's level is probably more, "If I push myself, I want to try and get the sword." So that's just a base level of um skill, right? There's no reply to that. Um roughly um the second part was Albert, you've got uh natural rivals in Maxim anyway, right? Um and that is an extremely from the outside an extremely healthy relationship because neither of you are like you fucking piece of shit, you beat me at gold or or thing. You're like, you fucking piece of shit. I'm going to get you next year. and then he's like, "No, you fucking work cuz I'm going to get better next year." Um, and I think that that's really helped push

both of you forward. Um, and then the last thing I was going to say, unless any of you have anything you want to talk about that cuz I've got it written down so I can come back to my last thing. Um, >> no, it's a good comment about Maxim and I think I kind of have that in Stan as well and it's obviously not competing for Slayer Swords, but we've had this sort of >> rivalry where obviously I really love Stan, but we we do uh it it's almost like Yeah. I I have to get better if he does. >> I have to keep pushing myself if he does that.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Sorry. What was the other thing? >> Well, it means my means Oh, no. I'm sorry, but you've got to be my rival then, basically. Otherwise, bring it. I don't know what else, right? Um, >> I wanted to point out though that we were mentioning how competitions can I mean the stakes, right, that Martin was was mentioning can make us push ourselves to to make the best we possibly can, but that's certainly not I mean it's something that some people use uh to push themselves, but it's certainly not a requirement, right?

Because when you think about some of the absolute best painters in the world like Kiril or you know John Chan or some of these guys they don't enter competitions at all and still they will produce the most mindblowing pieces ever. Right. >> Mhm. >> It's definitely true that it's not a requirement for the art itself. If anything it's pretty weird. I was saying this to someone the other guy like it's such a weird thing. What if you met someone and they had painted uh an oil painting or a watercolor or something, let's say an oil painting, and they done a really good work of it and you were like, "That looks great. Are you now going to take it to a convention and compete against other oil painters?" They'd be like, "No, why the hell would I do that?" But for us, that's just become this natural thing.

>> I mean, not that art all art is not equal, but >> they did have rivalries back then, though. They definitely >> Yeah, that's a fair point. >> Famous artist like >> Mozart versus Salieri. >> Yeah. >> Right. Even in music versus Salieri. Yeah. >> Well, so um an interest >> Oh, go ahead, Jamie. >> It's just that when Martin was talking, Golden Demon forces this. Monty and others don't force this same level of um a head-to-head. And that's why I like Golden Demon so much more. Somehow you have three BS going up there and everyone else is fucking devastated of somehow I quite like that. I know it's a bit brutal, but it also ties into my my comment from ages ago. Um I was very interested to see that Golden um Young Bloodoods every single person placed

right now. It goes back to what we were talking about how competition is healthy. I and how it's sort of nice nowadays whereas back before you had everyone was competing but it was healthy competition. Now it feels like and I don't know this is obviously isn't true because you've got the classic categories the non young bloodoods and you know there's still one to three so you're still dicking on people and people are still annoyed but I thought it was a weird difference. I remember getting young bloodoods and there were like 300 entries 400 entries whatever it was. Right. It was the most stacked category ever.

>> Exactly. And there there were only three winners. So it was either you're either shit or you're not. Now I'm not saying that these people who won. I didn't look at all the young bloods. This genuinely I didn't. So I don't know. They might have honestly all warranted getting a pin. Um I wish I had have looked to to check but I it feels unlikely to me that they all were good enough to get a pin. And I think it's I don't basically I'm saying it seems like it's a it's more like a comment on the social where we're at now as human beings where competing is is winning you know rather than no actually you finished fifth out of five you are shit get better do you know what I mean like um I remember growing up >> at the at the same time if you if you have um notable what's the last one notable right >> yeah notable then recommended finalist If you have notable for everyone, it's the same as not getting anything. So it's it very true.

>> The the value becomes the same. So if it doesn't really matter because as a as a as a kid, as a 14year-old, you are not stupid. >> And I wouldn't have that. Oh no, I'll be honest. I >> honestly I wouldn't have. No, 100%. I'd be like, fuck. >> I got participation trophies is exactly what it sounds. >> Say that again. one of you two. >> It's like in Youngs there were only really two pin two two levels of pins. >> That's basically what I was saying. Yeah. And you're right. You are I agree with that completely. Like >> um just a bit sad by that. I was I'd rather um I mean the trouble is you're going all the way to Germany.

Typically I would have found it uh outrageous that all kids should get notable because I remember as you were saying Jamie when we did enter Young Bloods as kids like there were like 400 entries or or however many >> and yeah if you just learn from it you know if you if you didn't place >> these days it's more um you know you have to caution >> to cushion the the blow as opposed to those who are not winning but at the same time I think that it's very important that we encourage these younger painters to to continue, you know, painting and improving.

>> Um, the average level, I mean, the number of models was obviously very very I mean much smaller than it used to be in the early 2000s. I think there were like 25 or 30 models in Young Bloods this year, but the average level was fantastic. And the three winners were unbelievable. >> Winners were incredible. So much so in fact that some losers online were you know spreading rumors that these were in fact adults cheating and entering through their kids which is obviously nonsense. >> I I even coached uh one of the kids who who won the guy who won bronze >> and you know I can confirm that he painted it himself. I mean his parents who I know are not even into the hobby.

So it was it made me quite mad actually that people would cast doubt on their sincere efforts. You know >> it's a compliment in a way if you're able to see it that way as a kid isn't it? >> It is I suppose but it's also unfair to them right to read that I mean >> so >> so again as much as I think that giving notable to everyone is kind of uh participation medals uh of of sorts. It's it's it's a nice gesture to encourage them to continue working hard. I know. Um I think except for that level

except for I I think Young Bloodoods deserves maybe its own sort of uh yeah potentially like satin gloves to to make sure that no one goes home absolutely devastated. But I I I think it's funny with those sort of extra levels cuz I I've had a lot of opportunities to think about the whole idea of disappointment and what that is and what it feels like and whether it's good or bad and whe whether it should be avoided. But like at the end of the day, um the competition is what it is and I want it to be that way. Like I'm happy the way it is and it can be it's weird.

It's like what I mean you just said yourself Jamie that you prefer Golden Demon to be that kind of brutal >> and like I didn't win anything last year. I didn't win the previous four years before that. >> But then when you win it feels >> way Yeah. Exactly. And then when you do it feels that much better. And I I wouldn't have I I don't think I would have liked it more if there was like no we've added an extra an extra level to say like oh you didn't win anything but we really like you. It's like okay cool. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think there's two two way to to take it when when you don't win. >> One is yeah to to be devastated and just give up and not do it anymore. And the other is to be like okay actually next year I'm going to do something so much better that there's no chance that you know I will fail again or or whatever.

Right. >> Yeah. Or even to uh or even to kind of um consider why you're doing it like because that's the thing. You might do something 10 times better and still not place next year, but then that doesn't take anything away from the work you've done. Nor does the first, you know, loss take anything away from the work you've done. I I I said this to to a lot of people last year. Uh I didn't win anything and um uh or I didn't I didn't win a trophy. And a lot of us who didn't. And I I just kind of I thought it was really sad to see a lot of people go home as like, well, I put in hundreds of hours into this entry or whatever I did and it was all for nothing. And I was like, but it wasn't cuz you did it.

If if nothing else, you got to practice. You first of all, you created this amazing piece. >> That's really cool. Even if it wasn't quite as good as literally three other entries, it can still be amazing. But also like it was it was practice, you did it. That's that ties with what we were saying the other day that um because it's sad that people think that and they because it's it's the the pain, right? >> They see the pain and the pain is is uh did not uh fulfill the the the reason uh which it's not what it should be, right? It's not about the the pain of painting. painting should not be >> well painted.

>> That's right. >> That's the whole that's the whole thing. Are you painting to paint or you painting for fun? >> And I think it's it's like, you know, when I was back in school as a kid, >> if I studied super hard and I failed an exam, then my parents would not scold me, you know, cuz they'd be like, "Okay, you really did try your best and it didn't go well, but you know, you have no regrets." So, I think it's it's similar here, you know. I would feel maybe angry at myself if I didn't place but I didn't know whether I didn't place because it um you know as as in if I had put in the effort to finish it properly then it might have placed and then the the anger is against myself you know what I mean because I know that I didn't do something that I'm proud of. So I think that you ultimately irrespective of whether you win or not what is important is it is that you produce something that you're happy with. Um, >> yeah.

>> Or as happy as you can be because of course we have people like Arnau who are never happy with their with their pieces or >> sometimes sometimes. >> I'm just kidding. >> I'm seriously I um I like um I like what I think it does. I I So if we zoom out a bit on the the other shows, I didn't do Freak was obviously because the name's awful. Um, and SMC. Uh, I yeah, I don't go anymore because it's too close to blah blah blah family blah blah blah. Um, I really enjoyed this year's Monty and I think I'll now um should go, but not for the competition for sure. There there >> there's an amazing amount of camaraderie that we all experience because we get a car, we're three best friends forever, then we're five, then we're four. Um, and when we had the van, we were six.

But there is something very wholesome about competitions that is completely away from the competition, and that is the fact that we get to socialize. Um, and I don't do any other holidays. I don't go on beach holidays. I don't do anything other than other than these shows. Um, and I don't think I want to. I think I do quite enjoy these. They are they're very good. take away the fact that I'm ill in every show I've ever been to. Um like they're pretty good. I I I really just want to do longer. I know I know like some Monty guys get there Wednesday, Tuesday. I I'm I'm I'm pushing for it. I know I am. You know my thoughts. We've already come up with a plan of that anyway. Uh yes. And and and aside from our listeners sharing in our uh travel plans for next year, I I want to say cuz this is interesting as well with everything that's good about a competition like you just said is also everything that has nothing to do with competition.

>> Absolutely. >> So, and I've said this to people a lot who uh talk about going to competitions and whether they should or shouldn't. And it's often something to do with like I don't think my painting is good enough and blah blah blah. First of all, of course it is. Fuck off. Just enter whatever you like and whatever you've done. But also don't see it as competition. See it as an exhibition. Cuz when I went to Monte this year, I was really pretty certain that I wasn't going to compete. Um uh because I I didn't really care too much about it. And it's not to to like I said the other day, it's not like, oh, that's just my uh what I say now because I didn't win anything. It's really like that's uh it doesn't matter that much to me. But I realized like that was the way I was going to be able to show off my Space Wolf Squad. And I wanted to bring it to Italy. I knew there were going to be people there wanted to see it. And also there's no shitty cabinets with terrible lighting. So, you know, that would be a great place to put them up and have people look at them.

>> And that's all it was. >> Yeah. Exactly. especially the painting rooms, >> you have the best lighting of any show. >> You can see the models really really well. >> So for for whatever competition you're thinking about going, just look at it from that perspective cuz it's it's really fun to just like bring something you've done, put it in either a cabinet where maybe someone will sort of kind of see it like at Essen or in Monte where it's awesome or any other show really and then just kind of do all the things that Jamie likes doing.

uh just socializing, eating. >> There's so much ice cream. >> I'm a slob. I am I am basically all the ice cream you want. >> Like I'm giving you official allowance for anyone listening to eat as much ice cream as you want. >> It's I mean >> What's the record, Jamie? 30 scoops. >> I don't know. I I to be honest, I'm glad I didn't count. I don't need to. My my life doesn't Do you remember Fry like Frier Tucker or whatever he's called? Basically old >> Tucker. Well, the the um the fucking Robin Hood film.

>> Yeah, Robin Hood's buddy. Frier Tuck. >> Yeah. He's just a big slob of a man, right? He's eating chicken and there's grease everywhere. That's what I that's how I feel inside when I go Monty and I love it and I wish I could do more of it >> inside. I mean, you >> Yeah. Well, yeah, he is bald and he's got a bit of this. The only problem is I'm not I'm not wearing a robe and I don't cry often for my life. >> Get there. We'll get there. >> You're missing the tonsur as well. I could get that easily to be honest with my boldness here. I only have here around here and you're one of those grow. >> I mean it's very elderlike in fairness.

Um so shit. Ah this is why I write things down. I had an amazing thing I wanted to say but yeah. Um ah I remember now. The lighting best show best lighting in Monty. doesn't um the Fen model show have really good lights in fairness and I I don't know what NPO I've never been. I do want to go this year to NPO though. >> Um good. >> They don't have cabinets like Golden Demon. >> No. >> Yeah. It's fucking pathetic. I mean I Sorry. I'll I I'll rescend that outlandish statement. I understand why Golden Demon have the worst cabinets in the fucking world because at a show with 300,000 400,000 people who don't give a shit, people could steal stuff. So yes, whereas these more intimate shows, Monty, most people there are painters and they know what it means. So people don't generally steal, right? I I can't even I don't remember hearing of a model actually being stolen in in in years of these shows. Um so fair enough to Golden Neman. I fucking

wish they would sort it out though. But yeah, I do think that the lighting on every other competition but Golden Neman is actually very good. Um >> the problem is not so much with the fact that they are cabinets, but with the fact that they don't have LED strips.

>> Yeah. There's no diffused light. It's just like >> it's very Yeah. >> Yeah. Is it's a spotlight basically. >> Exactly. >> Let us run into Hold on. Hold your horses. >> Um race car >> of course the jingle for fastest race car. Martin are now you are not taking part in this fuss car. This is an Albert special. You ready? Who's got the clock? >> Yeah. I'll I'll I'll time it. >> That's if you just take the L out of clock.

So, >> here we go. Are you Are you ready, Albert? >> I am indeed. >> Let's pass one. What's harder, winning your first sword or um pretending the second sword was a surprise? I Lionel wrote this. I don't necessarily agree with that. >> Winning the first was out of there. >> Yeah, that is mental that ass out like that. Yeah, exactly. Um, how long did the winning piece take you and how much time did it um time of it was in panic? Yeah.

>> Uh, 7 months maybe. Six, seven months of work. And how much of that panic? >> Panic zero hours. >> What's the one comment someone made about your model that stuck with you the most? >> Uh, I don't know, man. I read thousands of comments, literally. So, most of them were quite nice. So, let's leave it at that. >> I suppose negative ones actually stick out more, ironically. Anyway, this is faster race car. Did you ever have a moment when you thought that this one's not going to make it for a sword?

>> For the sword, you mean? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I I didn't even expect to win the sword when when I was doing the model. So, yeah, of course I had that. >> Which took longer, painting the model or recovering from the weekend? >> Painting the model for >> obviously. Yeah. What's the weirdest thing you've ever said? Uh um what's the weirdest thing you Wait, what? What's the weirdest thing you've ever said to yourself mid brush stroke? >> I got brush stroke. >> Why are they so sexual? >> Yeah.

>> This fucking speck of dust. >> How do you deal with dust? That is Yeah. Um we we can expand into this. Um have you ever had if you had to hand one of your swords to someone else who deserves it? Uh, modelwise, this is not like they broke their hand. >> Oh, I understand. Uh, >> uh, no, no time. I I would think a bit more. >> No. Yeah, we just we've only got two. You can have executive. Thanks. Never mind.

>> Models that have not won a sword, but that I think should have won a sword. >> Specifically, I guess your when you want swords, right? >> Hold on. What do you mean? So it's not just in general. I think I think it's talking about >> about the this golden demon or or his own models. What? >> Yeah. His own. Well, >> ah okay. >> The way I understand Lionel wrote this is you've won three swords. Which of those three competitions who was what what was one piece from any of those displays that was good? That's the way I think Lionel's trying to >> Oh, then I would have to say Maxim's Nurgal Marine for sure. Yeah, >> that one was a slayer sword.

>> It was good >> level model for sure. >> Yeah. Um >> I I kind of have an imposter syndrome actually >> how good his was. >> Yeah, >> it was very small. Um which Fant Sle was the most stressful of the four >> for me? >> Uh this latest one I think. >> Yeah. What's your secret weapon? >> Sorry. What did you want? Two minutes or do you want want to just keep going?

>> No. No. I said, "Yeah, we just I said, "Fuck it. We're just going to finish it." Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. >> It's slow as a as a truck. >> Slow as a snail. >> Slow as fuck. >> Yeah. What's your Well, we're actually going to do slow as a snail. What's your secret weapon? A technique and mindset or a lucky pair of balls. >> Or what? >> Lucky pair of balls. Like your balls are just lucky. Like you're lucky. >> Oh. Uh maybe it's a combination of luck and skill I would hope. >> Mindset I would have thought also is a big >> and mindset. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> My mindset probably is it's about having the patience and u stamina to to do it right. >> Midbrushstroke. I agree. And are you really going to let go of the possibility of being the most decorated consistently painter by not entering next year? Well, Angelo Dell has like 70 demons. So, even if I don't enter next year and far far away from being the most decorated win for a single >> Yeah. In terms of that, uh I think Yeah, it has only happened twice to win four goals consecutively.

>> Exactly. >> Neil Thomasson did that in the 90s, early 90s, and then I did it now. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So maybe I could try to go for the fifth one, but we'll see. We'll see. >> Keep the guys guessing. I think it's insane to not and also the level now is insane compared to But not to dismiss dis. Oh, fuck it. Whatever. Right. Do you want to do right, boys? I don't know if you can remember. Hold on. I should just type nothing boo. >> Now that is the jingle for slow as a snail. Slows us now is the segment where the viewers who is me, Martin, and our now pick one question of those to dive into.

>> Oh, you just want to do it right now. >> Yeah. Um, >> I don't even remember the question. >> I don't remember any of that. >> You pieces of shit. >> Something about uh dust. >> No, never mind. >> Well, the dust one is interesting. What's the one comment someone made about your model? No. How long did you take to win? No. What's harder? First one or No. Which took longer model recovering? No, Lionel's really let the Some of them were all right, but they weren't the best. Um,

>> what's the weirdest thing you've ever said, Miss Broadstroke? Let's dive into that. >> The the dust. >> It was the dust one. It's the only one that any of us could remember. Um, >> I'll give I'll give you one. >> Okay. >> A different one. >> Oh, okay. Oh, no. >> That Lionel gave to me instead of you. >> I see. >> He was uh tired of talking to you. Um my personally my my best works come from anxiety. So from from not being able to to solve it. Uh where do you where do your strength uh come from while painting? What do you think?

>> Oh the slow as you guys know that's yours. >> No no slow as mold. >> What's the question again? And if if not if not from anxiety >> where does my >> where like where do you think >> um I just think it's personality you know and the perseverance to spend crazy amounts of time on doing something irrespective of what it is as long as I'm passionate for it I I can spend you know yeah crazy amounts of time doing doing things that I enjoy. Of course, I need to enjoy them. If I don't enjoy them, then then I will never do that. But it's the same with with when I learned Japanese, right? I I had to learn like three 3,000 characters or whatever, right? And unless you're enjoying doing that, you'll just give up, right, midway. So, I think, yeah, just build for it in terms of personality.

I do think you've got the you've got the thing that almost nobody else has in this industry, which is the ability to focus on the same thing at the same level, right? Like I could have hyperfocus for a week maybe on something. >> And and I'm really focused in that week, right? And it's all I'm I'm not just um excited to do it. I have to do it if that makes sense. Like it's consuming the same. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I get obsessive armor, >> right? That's a good word. >> Yeah, Albert, you've got that ability to do that over.

>> Yeah, I'm not the only one though. You have uh I mean, you have uh even Maxim his ogre that he entered in in Monte. >> It took him like 500 hours or or God knows how long, you know, >> or 400, I I don't know, but hundreds for sure. >> Yeah. >> And he's been doing it for months as well. So, >> well, there aren't that many >> person >> with with this approach. >> It's hard to find though cuz to find someone with the skill and the patience is and that's why he's won swords basically, Maxim and why his his Nurgle guy was as good as it was cuz that was amazing. And the the ogre blah blah blah like um it's also interesting. I wonder if you wouldn't be the painter you are if you didn't have that. Not to make it the Albert show, but like like I look at Alfonso um Galdez, right? Or whatever he's called. His personality is such that he I honestly like he's got like five fucking names and every time I talk to him, he comes up with a different one

and then it's like you with Morto font and I'm like which one is it, mate? Pick one. Um >> right, yes, Banshee. Right. like um his personality is that he can't he couldn't spend 500 hours or even like obviously like some of the stuff that he's placed with his box arts he's he's maybe pushed 100 hours or something but his technique his personality comes out in his paint jobs right like um he >> Roman he's another good example >> yeah and and they used to do this I think he they had that style before and um like my my it's interesting it's a bit like someone not the same but you know you have those guys who have stutters right but when they sing they don't have stutters and it's >> like Scman John >> did he have a >> exactly like that um >> pretty much >> and you haven't you've got people who can drum but they can't otherwise they've got some weird neuro disease or something right so I don't know if if there must be painters who are opposite

they you know they spend 500 hours but they're actually like me and they're chaotic everywhere But um I do I do find the the idea your your personality matches your paint style like it's >> but I think that's the case for absolutely everyone right alonso's style also matches his personality >> but I used to spend like 200 hours on a single 22 mil 28 mil 22 it's a weird scale 28 mil model and I would be autistic in my ability to to try and finish >> was that was that because you really wanted to or because you you because it was what because >> it's the only style I knew admittedly.

>> Exa that's what I mean when I started uh 175 mm was was like we all knew that painting a 75 mm was a long time of dedication. So my first 75s were were months. >> Yeah. >> And and that's not that's not me. But it's what everyone expected because you know everyone did it. >> Mhm. >> Uh and then when I developed as a painter I understood that this was not me. >> But start you really do what what the world expects.

>> I really think that I'm quite impatient actually. I don't think that I'm quite patient in in like anything. And obviously my painting is requires a lot of patience. >> Doesn't that detract and completely polar opposite it takes away from the enjoyment if you're doing something against your grain? Right? Like you sit down Banshee and like right mate paint that 28 for 200 hours. He'll hate 200 hours of that paint job. Um like I didn't hate paint. I actually think since I've learned to paint more, I hate painting more than I did back then. Is do you know what I mean? It's kind of ironic that since I've met Banshee and he's taught me that you can be more free as it were and I've got better at painting since then, but I had more fun back then. I don't maybe I actually think they're probably separate the the the two.

>> There's there's layers also because I I I was thinking about myself and I am really patient and I I am extremely like >> very patient. Yeah. In real life, everything I I have endless patience. But when painting, I'm not. And it's not that I'm not patient. It's that I have this anxiety to solve the piece. And it comes from a different place. It's not it's not about patience. It's about >> I need that itch scratched and I need to solve the problem.

>> So it doesn't >> it doesn't come come from the patience or not patience. It comes from another place. I I agree. >> I guess in in my case cuz obviously I also want that each scratch, right? But the way how I overcome this is instead of scratching it is envisioning how it will look when when I'm done. You know what I mean? So just the the envisioning this final product kind of serves as the scratching in in my mind. >> Yeah. Yeah. That I do as well. But there's many times where I can't envision it until I work on it. Like I I need to and and that's where the the the the quickness comes because I need to, you know, see it. I need to see it and and I work on the sketch very fast so I can see it and then I just refine it. That's actually the time I spend is just refining. Uh, it's interesting because I I lost my way a bit from from going down

that rabbit hole where I was painting a load of stuff that wasn't Elder. Alfonso and and Lionel were both like stop painting Elder and I did like quite a few models that I think were actually relatively well painted like some goblins, some humans, some skins, some blah blah blah about five models. Um, and I was I thought I was in this mode of learning. So, I was spending really short amounts of time on it and trying to like be like, "Right, okay, cool. Let's jump to the next one." But I didn't finish them. Whereas, you had to box art finish them. And I'm wondering if if you didn't have to finish stuff, would you have learned the same scale or speed as you you've got that outward pre or inward pressure?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that did influence for sure. 100%. I I I do think that I am prone to that because I really um need to see it, but also it helps that I have to finish it quickly. So, I guess that it's a perfect the perfect combination to to get a quick painter, right? Needing to to paint quick on on one side and needing to paint quick from my mental health. So, >> shit. try and dissect all of that. Like >> Martin, basically, you should just stop painting slowly.

>> Yeah, I've thought about it. >> Well, that's Taskmaster's perfect for that. Not that we're going to go into it. >> Yeah, I thought about your suggestion, your bold suggestion from from last we spoke that you said I should not paint in my usual style, but try to >> Yeah. >> Like, >> yeah. So I was just going to fill in. So for anyone who doesn't know Taskmast is basically once a month we come up with a project that we three are going to do and our listeners all seven of them could join in if they want and this month we've actually done it over 3 months uh is painting a killer can and >> well we don't know when this episode is going to air up.

>> No, it's more just the concept of it. So they know what we're talking about where I want Martin to not >> to paint his nonheavy metal style. Right. And I was thinking it could be like Alfonso definitely like he unlocked something in me that was you don't have to paint in this style, right? Was the first painter I ever really got to know and um eternally grateful for. But I lost something else which was the ability to enjoy painting and sitting down and spending ages on it. Um yeah.

>> Are you still pos? So if that doth to

conclude with my um riveting last statement there. Thank you three. Um the news normally news comes at the beginning but not anymore. We got the R story. I might edit that our story out and put it at the end but um >> Oh that's where it goes, isn't it? Yeah. >> I I don't know. I just feel it's I don't get me wrong. I like the story. >> I actually think that you told the story in a podcast already. >> Yeah. About the washing the ass one but not the finger in the one of our super fans. Uh just quickly on Yeah, >> do the time stamp. So I don't know if you you you guys will know about obviously original Games Workshop artwork cuz of myself and album, right?

>> Um and there is it's called Christies. For some reason I always h in my head think of Crispy Creams. I don't know why that that link is there. Yeah, it's weird. Um but there's so the old in my opinion awful artwork called Harry the Hammer. Um, not that you need to preface if you know, preface preface if people like it or not. Um, oh, oh shit, I can't I've got a really good thing I want to tell you which is not related at all. Um, so they are selling via auction. So who has who? So anyway, they're selling the artwork. The Christies think it's going to sell, right? Yeah. 400 grand is what Christies have. So Chris is just an auction house, a very famous one in London basically reputable as fuck. And they have um said I don't know how they So basically they think it's going to get 400 grand for an original piece of GW artwork. The record now probably is around 50 grand for an artwork for a single piece. So it's quite a big jump. Um >> that's pounds sterling. It's they're

estimating between £300 and £400,000 >> which if to me and don't get me wrong I'm not annoyed but I think it sounds outrageous. >> Quite a lot of money. >> Yeah, it is a bit of money. >> The rumor I don't know if we're allowed to talk about who the rumor I don't know if we Yeah. You reckon? Fuck yeah. So >> let's just bip the name. Let's just bib the source. Basic basically the rumor is GW have put in a a silent a silent bid of 300 grand in for this piece, right?

Um like in my mind, why would GW want it back? They've been giving away artwork for years to the artists. Well, if it's for for tax reasons, then there's nothing else. I mean, art has has uh been used for avoiding tax payments for decades. So, I know. >> Yeah. It just feels >> not terribly sentimental, is it?

I mean, it's a huge sum of money for sure, especially for an illustration that is from the first edition of Warhammer when there were not really so many hobists uh back then. >> Maybe that gives it more credence or value in a way. >> A cool thing about it is that it's done by John Blanch, who is one of the more, I guess, like iconic GW artists. uh one of probably the more well-known I guess as well >> I think so. Yeah, it was also one of his >> someone who isn't really associated with anything else unlike you know Paul Bonner and Carl Kapinsky in those guys.

Yeah, I um I like the idea of GW having their their artwork ironically um considering I have some artworks. But yeah, >> and incidentally, we've we recently saw that there's a new job opening uh for someone to take care of physical um I guess it was physical was something like an an art archist or >> some creator. Yeah, >> I would I wouldn't even hate that job excluding the fact that it pays like 18 grand. Um the the the also though like how how how long could it take you to do? They're not making any more artwork. Like how is that? No, but it's basically it's it's um so uh I know a guy who used to do a similar job at at Games Workshop and it's basically the the very last shot from Raiders of the Lost Arc where they're wheeling in the arc and it's just it's like it's that uh just they have so much hundreds and literally hundreds of thousands of pieces of art because a lot of them are very small and

it's a lot of stuff. >> It doesn't include models though, does it? >> No. No, that wouldn't be any models. I know they gave away so much like talk there's a few artists that have been promising to give them their artwork for years >> and they just don't reply anymore like >> not happening anymore I don't think >> but yeah a lot of artworks got a lot of their stuff back the fact that um certain legends had to give in their artwork um pained me that they would have had to have done that um I I feel like you you well I mean yeah he probably knew it was coming because they told him before he left well if it does sell for that Um, I'll start selling all of mine at Christy's as well and we can just start a nice big Christy War.

>> To be fair, Jamie, your paintings that you have, the Elder C are a lot more iconic than Harry the Hammer like by a million. >> Fucking hammer. >> We're talking like people that we know in the hobby and who like which artwork would you rather put on your wall and which has more like affectionate value to you? >> Yeah, I think those elder pieces. It's a really good piece. >> Yeah, this was all really just an ad for Christies. You can use our affiliate link when you're uh >> when you when we'll get 10% of that sale. I um I it will be interesting because Magic has so many expensive artworks, right? Um but Magic produces still now artwork. So in theory GW should be more sought after because it's finite, but Magic has a lot more rich collectors. It does a PR.

>> They are literally a brand that's all about the artworks. They do like 300 artworks per per edition. So, >> it's quite a lot. >> I wonder what percentage is traditional art with Magic every year. >> I think it's quite it's quite well spread is my understanding. The artists have full disclos like they choose what they want to do. >> Magic don't ask them like we want this this cuz cuz they produce the art and they sell the art themselves. An original artist doesn't give the artwork to magic. They they retain the original exactly how GW did it before where the artist could take their stuff home. Right. Um so what was the other news? I cannot remember.

>> You said you had news. Was it this one? >> Yeah. I don't know. Oh no. Well, it wasn't news. I I came up with a really good advert idea. Um a really good advert idea. Um, I might do it next week. Um, anyway, that's why I I I had the idea while I was talking. It was basically to No, I'll save it. It's quite good. I think it could be quite it's it's satire. It's mugging off um a company. Oh, I remember what the other news was. Um it's mugging off a a company within our sector, basically.

>> Fear. Yeah, >> I'm really looking forward to the new um segment as well. But why do artists get shit was the other segment. >> This is not news though, is it? >> No, it's not news. But it's still uh it doesn't need to be news. It's >> You want to explain that a bit? Does Does our Now want to explain that segment? Uh, well, I think we talked about this a few episodes ago when and Jamie I think hit the nail in the head with the analogy strangely uh because his analogies are usually >> very little a little bit.

Um and he said that it was like a like a or like um football competition or uh or a um Formula 1 tournament or you know the fact that you won one year doesn't mean that you are the best because next year if you don't do shit you will lose. >> And we have in our industry that that thing that if you win you are fucking God and you stay there. as you say that which is not the case because everyone keeps evolving and keeps doing things and keeps making efforts. So, and it's not like when you achieve one level of painting, you stay there forever because doing uh good paint jobs takes a lot of of effort and soul.

So, you may not be able to replicate it if you don't put the same of you in the piece. M >> but but I guess um that's not what what some people may think. You know, people may think that they have that level and that's their level. >> Do you really think I I hadn't considered that it was like um a delusion thing? Um if that makes sense. >> In some cases it's delusion for sure because we we we know some Dulu people.

We don't know them >> like but yeah in some other cases probably it's just just tiredness. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and I thought I was going to cough that's why I had that. Um I was Yeah. Hold on. I'm going to cough. Like resting on your laurels and like I don't code as well as I used to cuz I don't care anymore. It's just a job, right? So like some of these stuff that people put out that isn't as good as it was 5 years ago. I assumed it was because the passion's just been burnt out of them.

They're jaded like to >> But I think I think we need to make a distinction here. One distinction is you stay at the same level that you've always been, but you don't actually get worse, >> but everyone else is getting better. So relatively you're not as good as you used to be anymore because people have surpassed you. Right? That's one thing. The other thing is you actually produce pieces that are worse, objectively worse than what you yourself used to do in the past, irrespective of what everyone everyone else does, you know.

>> So I think there's these two different ways to to see, you know, artists that may be perceived as not being as good as they used to be. Is it because they are actually producing worse things than they used to or is it because they're still doing similarly you know good things but >> but you know everyone else has gotten so much better than them. >> I guess it's both but in in we we all have fluctuations in levels. We always have uh times where we are more prone to have uh strong pieces because we we want to uh make some efforts and sometimes we are not and we do less or we just produce worse things because we don't have that fire in us that that's completely normal. I think this is completely normal. But I guess if if you are in that downward spiral of just not relaxing right relaxing and relaxing and relaxing and not uh

doing that shift of producing good things again but then what I don't get is don't you and don't you see it that >> maybe you don't care you know maybe you're just bored and you're like fuck I hate my job I need to put something out cuz I've got no money. Let me just sculpt this thing that's dog shit, but I know it will sell at least 50 and I'll I don't know. Like it's interesting in the hobby cuz it's a hobby for everybody who consumes. >> I think you're absolutely right, Jamie.

There's the good enough concept. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> As long as it pays, they don't really care. >> You're like, yeah, you're just like I you can't hide in this industry like you can in other industries. I I produce code that is less um creative, right? It still does the feature that I'm asked to write. I might spend slightly longer on it. I might ask someone else to help me, blah blah blah. But in in in this industry, you can't hide. You can't ask me really are now to to paint your model, right? Or sculpt your >> Well, there's a well-known case in Spain of a guy who was doing exactly that.

Sergio was doing that, right? Calvo was doing that. Yeah. Okay. That he he he had a studio at least. But you are right. I feel like it's for me it's it's it's I'm like do you know what? I I get it. If you're like if I'm paying X artist to give me a box art, I want it by ex artist. I don't want his minions doing >> 95% of it and then him doing the last 5%. So fair enough. But if I'm a company buying box arts from him as his brand, I'm like, it's fine that his studio produces it in my opinion. It's like you've got are now >> Yeah.

>> If it's labeled as a studio. Yes, of course. >> Yeah. Yeah. I know he wasn't and it was sneaky as fuck. >> Yeah. Or a conjecture that is I will say cuz that is slanderous I think. Um so yeah, the the I I can't prove it. Aside from that specific example, I I think there's a good point there with good enough being like a killer of creativity and quality. I think that goes for a lot of things when you find that exact level where you can be and deliver what's expected of you basically from anyone else.

>> And it's understandable, but it sucks. >> We all we all do it. I mean it's not like it's not like we are safe from that because we we all have uh bad moments and uh figures that we just lose interest in and or or that we have to just solve and and get paid. >> So we all do it. >> Exactly. when it's when when when it's when you're getting paid to do it, when it's work, then yeah, that kind of has to happen. But it's uh it's >> But I guess >> also if you are a hobbyist, like you may you may lose interest in a piece that you are doing, right?

>> And you have two choices to abandon it or to finish it just um as as you can. >> And I'm I'm pretty sure that this happens. >> Most people just stop though. I I I think it's just becomes so obvious when you have um quote unquote heavy hitter and then their level just drops off the face of an earth and you're like, "All right, fair enough." I was surprised by this person's release that we saw. Um mostly because I think that they would just have enough natural talent to to pull it through. But obviously it shows that to produce at the level that they're producing before means that they were just very good at what they were doing and cared and if you know what I mean. Like if you if you like if you Yeah, I think I think we got it. They just they just don't care basically.

>> Well, I guess it's it's a lot it's a lot more complicated and it's a very um case by case basis. >> Yeah. a lot of people stuff going on in people's lives probably impact as well the blah blah blah and how how much >> it's an interesting counterpoint to everything we've been talking about with evolving and getting better naturally by doing it for a long time cuz this is actually a case of the opposite so just for that I do think it's worth mentioning as a yeah as a as another way to go where you don't actually get

better with time you get bored >> and also sometimes and this is something that it's actually a very big point is that we we assume a lot of things when when seeing people people's paintings we assume that they feel bad good about it and maybe a lot of people uh are aware that they're doing shit >> they just can't put it in their post >> of course yeah I mean every time this this is a funny anecdote with my with my sister-in-law I sometimes she came to to the studio and I was showing the her the pieces And I was like, "Yeah, I hate this piece. I'm I really it's making me very unhappy." And then two days later, I put the post in on Instagram. I had so much fun with this piece.

And she was like, "Yeah, sure." >> Do you ever >> do you ever feel like you could just be honest? Like, >> "No, I can't." >> Yeah, fine. Yeah. It's an interesting safety net because every single post, not you, one does a person, it's it's basically the same message, right? Someone gives you a gift. Thank you. I feel so honored that you would give me this gift. It's amazing. Uh this this project was a a joy to work on. Blah blah blah. Just just standard template replies. Um now, I don't know how I would react because when it's a stranger, I'm much less rude to them, right? Like someone randomly gives me something. My wife come homes with a haircut that looks like fucking shit.

She's crying. She's crying and she remembers it and still brings it up now, right? Like cuz I'm I I can't hold back my visceral reaction, right? So I'm like >> monkey and I wonder if I So So part of me is is because I know I'm that way when I do social media posts and stuff. I I'm more honest, right? But if it was my job, would I be a twat and be like, "Someone gives me a pink." Well, I don't want that. No, I wouldn't because that's still rude.

It's actually thinking about it. I think it that this honesty and this or or not being honest. I think it's a lot deeper than that because I don't think you can be that honest. I agree in this industry at all. >> Oh, I see what you're saying. No. Well, being rude to people is just a no-go, right? So, that's fine. You if you don't like a piece of model, you're not going to be like, >> "I can't give you feedback, mate." Honestly, that is shit. Like, you just you couldn't do that, right? And and someone gives you a gift, you you wouldn't be you you'd say, "Thank you so much, blah blah blah." But >> yeah, social norms still apply.

>> Social norms. Yeah. And and if you've done a piece for a company, you can't be like, well, you could say that it was hard and challenging and and you wanted to stop it. >> But when I receive an email with a proposal of a piece and I hate the piece, >> how do I decline it? >> You be like, look, that's something I'm I'm either too busy or I don't want to work on it right now. >> If if they if they send me an email with the piece four years, I'll wait for and I don't and I don't like it. I just I just say I can't. That's that's easy. That's the easy version.

But what if they ask for for a a slot without showing me the piece? That's that's very tricky because I don't know if the piece will be good or not. I don't know if I will like the piece. So, and then when I see the piece and I already gave the slot, it's like, oh fuck, this is awful. >> You just you just literally have a hard rule. I don't give slots to see the piece. So, >> that's exactly what I was going to say. You can have that rule. If someone asks why, you can just say like, well, because it's subjective. No, but sometimes it's not scope fresh.

>> Yeah, it doesn't matter now. Just be like >> it doesn't matter. Yeah, >> I know. But my schedule is like 6 months uh down like I I cannot do like just now. >> No, but then >> sometimes this happens. >> Then you would say you would say look >> it's not that fucking simple. >> You just go look here's the deal, okay? I don't trust you, okay? I don't I don't know you yet, right? And I'll be honest, I don't want to commit to a piece. So many of my emails start that way. Just, hey, I don't I don't trust you. >> Straight up. Just say it. Like people aren't going to be offended if you're honest and be like, look, totally honest. I don't know if I'm going to like the piece. Get back to me as soon as you have a concept and we can talk.

But right now, >> you're dirt to me. You are you're beneath me. Cuz that's essentially what you're saying. >> Yeah. In this case, yes. But then if you don't like the piece, you have to say, "Well, I don't like the piece." >> Yeah. But that say that respectfully. You don't have to insult them. you can just be like, "Thanks for getting back to me. This is not good. >> Peace out." >> No, but a lot of people do do this for as as passion. If it's a if it's a large company, I don't give a fuck. But if it's if it's an individual that is uh spending their savings doing something, it's very hard to say, "I really don't like this." Because >> I've got the answer now. No, I've got the answer. I know how you fix it.

>> No, but you can say it's not to my taste or something like that. >> Yeah. No. What? >> Yeah. Well, I I've I came up with something like this. I can't say because then they will not >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Right. What you do is >> you're going to edit out this whole thing ruin you forever. >> No, I'll voice over it. I'll get AI to um learn his voice and then put in the things. Right. What you do is you say, "Look, I I've got a slot." And they're like, "I've got an idea, but I can't show you it yet." And you go, "Fine. I give me 10 grand and I'll make a project that I want to make and then you can have it." And that's it. There you go.

Job done. >> Sure. and specifically 10 grand. That's the important part. The project only to >> be fair, this doesn't this doesn't happen as much anymore, but it used to it used to happen a lot. >> Yeah. I imagine that the the less um cash in your pocket that you have, the more um yes man you become >> in a in a quite a quite a hard way. >> Right, gentlemen, it has been a beautiful evening. Albert has no voice left, pussy. Um we got the last of it. That was nice.

That was nice of him. >> Yeah. Sorry. Lost my voice again. >> I enjoyed it. Um I like this format of four. I think um I didn't like and now I do like See you later. >> Good. Best friends forever. >> Best friends forever. You're going to see See you on Discord. On >> Discord. See you guys. Bye-bye. >> Bye-bye.