Why Exact Paint Recipes Are Not the Answer

Mini Matters, a miniature painting podcast. >> Welcome, boys. I'm looking directly at the camera. Season 4, episode 1, the the the beginning of perfection. I guess the be the the the thing that people want to aspire to is what we're creating right now in this episode, in this new season. No new features. Absolutely. We're going to hit it ground running. Zero planning done beforehand. Of course, >> y >> as always. Yeah, >> as always.

>> Because we we had such a good thing with season 3 that I felt like we shouldn't. I was saying this season of this podcast is going to be the best we've ever done and possibly one of the better seasons of any podcast. I think everyone knows if you go to any TV show without actually looking it up, they will you will know by season 4. That's really where it gets going. Uh, and we're we're doing that by changing absolutely nothing at all >> and just >> no more effort. I mean, to be honest, >> experience is key. And I don't want to I don't want to plug a dead horse here, but um, if you look at GitGub's shit that they produce right now, they're not in season 4 for a reason, okay? And we are. Now, also, um, the fact that we've already had a crash, we had to start and stop the intro, and I don't know what I'm saying. Perfectly sums up. We run a tight ship here. All right. We do. We run a tight.

>> Yeah. We have a lot of false starts, and we're sticking to our tried and and tested routine that we know what works. >> Yeah. Or doesn't in this case. >> Well, when you've got six listeners, you can basically do what you want, right? and and and >> and I think that affords us a lot of things. >> Yeah, >> I think so. So, in this episode of the new season of the completely unfucking Okay. Gropbusters, a classic from season 3. >> Season four, Gropers is going to be a whole other level.

>> Family Fortunes the first real score. Now, now we will we will put a line under season 3, okay? And we will now be tracking for real the scores, okay? And I'll put it in the Discord. And also, we're going to start doing those prizes or some shit, right, for the listeners. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Now, if we surpass, let's say, 20 listeners. >> Okay.

>> A thousand listeners. thou if we get to a thousand listeners, we'll do a prize every week. All right. >> Okay, good. That's on that's that's that's on paper, but yeah, a prize. Um, basically, we've got news, right? We've got Warhammer World Trip. The meat of it is related to that, but what is it? What was it? What did we call it? >> We struggled to find the title. It was more like starting a figure, recipes, non-re recipes, >> something to do with recipes.

>> Yeah. References. >> I I'll give the concept. I'll give the basically. >> Yeah. Explain the thing. >> We want to go into um when people ask for they see a photo of how something's done and they ask explicitly how X is done. Okay, which relates to recipes. So, what's the recipe for this? Um how did you achieve this? Um, and we want to dig into that and that is our meat of it today. Now, just quickly to recap if you're a new listener, which is unlikely because we've only got six as I've said before. Um, unless people are dropping off and those like three come and three. Anyway, Grubbusters is basically a cryptic clue.

I will give you initials and then I will tell you a clue. Okay. So, the classic is H. What was it? >> Hive. HT. Okay. Well, yeah. HT and then it's like that. I'll do let's just do G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G GS that bloke stealing the jeans. I can't remember what the other one was. That's the gene stealer. Okay, so that's the cryptic clue and and then you'll get three of them and then next episode you answer them, you find out the answers and we get new new ones. Family Fortunes is brand new and that is literally Family Fortunes or Family Feud. I can't remember what the American version is.

Basically, I give you an idea. We ask a hundred random people at events so they at least know about the hobby. Uh and then they give you So what's the most popular paint brand? It was AK was it? >> Um Scale 75. >> Scale 75. Okay. And that was the most popular. >> Fucking scale 75. Yeah. And the second place was like Chimera or something. It's >> made sense to me though. But yes. So, so we ask 100 and then these two have to guess. And then meat of it is basically cuz it's a new season, we should explain what what's going on, right?

>> Meat of it is basically the chunky part of the episode which we do every week. Normally our meat of its sometimes come out of the the but um the news is the news. So that's anything related. We do of of course have thought of the day and that's where I had a thought randomly during the week but normally it happens that I only have one thought a day so they will pick it but it could be thought of this day. Um and of course we've got we're going to cover um in great detail that film. >> Oh, >> not today.

>> Rebel Moon. >> Yeah, these are optional. So we got we got Dragon Moon. Dragon Moon. >> Rebel Moon. >> Rebel Moon. >> We'll get to Dragon Moon eventually. for now one. >> Um, and actually that's the only Oh, and then Dr. Love Brush. So that's where people uh they want to ask >> um an heavy metal painter or a box art painter. Um I mean ironically every metal are box arts, >> but somehow there feels like there's a distinction, right? >> No. Well, it's weird that heavy metal I've never heard people refer to the boxes as box arts cuz everything Metal paints as box art.

So it's like >> Yeah, I guess because it's more it's less personal. You don't know who painted it. >> Are now paints don't go on actual boxes. So I mean it's a bit of technicality. >> That's true. >> That would be great. That >> sometimes they go on tins. >> On tins. That's right. >> You like tins, don't you? So

welcome back everybody. How was your Christmas? We've done an episode since Christmas, haven't we? >> We did a literally like four days last episode last season. Well, the year dating you I was 26 dating. >> Do you know what? Right. This really really one bloke commented, "What the fuck is he talking about?" Right? Which I actually thought with context makes sense cuz why am I bitching about people telling people uh happy new year? So, so I slightly got that one. Um and I did >> he just comment what the fuck is he talking about? Was that >> Yeah, he put the time stamp and he was like, "What is this dude talking about?" And you know what? I wasn't even I was like, "Yeah, fair. That's fair." >> Yeah. But to be fair, that comment could go at any point in any episode.

>> This is very true. Um, except when I'm not talking, right? And then we had, what were we talking about? Actually, ironically, what literally what were we talking about just then? >> Just now I was wondering how is your 2026? Is everything >> Oh, yeah. Fuck. Right. So, obviously, everyone now takes great joy in telling me happy new year, but motherfucking Zach Valentine, I need to message him about this. He posted on his um Facebook, "This is what I've done this year. This year was really difficult and I'm really looking forward to next year." He was he literally posted exactly what I complained about. Right now, I I I love the concept that he is just trolling me, right? He's done a post that he's not sure that I'll see, but he knows it will piss me off. It's not pissing me off. It's m mildly annoying is a better way to describe it.

Okay? Like like in fact that should have been a things I hate segment thinking about it now. Happy New Year is things I hate. So yeah, I need to ask him. Look, Zach, did you listen? You son of a bitch. You sick son of a bitch. People normally do these things. >> Do they? >> Yeah, they do. >> I don't know, man. Yeah, that's a pretty normal thing to do is I think completely unrelated to your uh hatred of it.

That's just a thing that a lot of people do >> at the end of the year. >> They literally say this was about calendar is way >> Oh, of course they do. That's why I got annoyed by it. >> Really into it. >> Yeah. >> God, I fucking I don't hate people. I think people are really cool and great, >> but a lot of the things >> some things people do. >> Yeah. >> No, I get that. I get >> vice versa, right? Like I had people messaging me and going, "You're a little dickhead and you annoy me." And I'm like, "What? I haven't even" And they're just like, "Look, just stop being you." And you're like, "Right." >> Yeah.

>> I'll stop you there cuz I I can't do that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Right. >> With this podcast before that people are have complained that it features you being yourself. >> Well, literally Martin, Martin, if you if you are still listening, he literally came up to me and was like like it's really good show. Sincerely, let Arnell talk more >> and you talk like just bring that bring your and bring an out and then >> um in fairness he just he he just didn't get a placement that he wanted. So he might have been annoyed and he was like who's an easy target Jay dog. So for anybody who doesn't know Martin color is a mate. So there's some context there.

It's not like a stranger came up to me and said that. Um, so news. >> It's also not me. It's a different guy called Martin. >> True. >> There are more. >> Very, very true. Um, >> yeah. What were we saying? Happy New Year. >> No, >> it's a new year and everything about it is new. >> The news. The Nightbringer model is out from GW. Is it called the Nightbringer? >> Now, what are your thoughts? >> Is it available for pre-order in a couple of days? >> This? Yeah, exactly. I think on Saturday.

Okay. >> Oh, is it okay? Friday. I'm I'm I'm conflicted about that because I think this is a case of which links in with the meat a bit. I'm tempted to buy one, but I'm kind of also like I'm I'm the box art has made me think I can and obviously I'm I'm past box arts now, but it is enticing me in as in box arts no longer have control over me even though I'm I'm saying I'd like to buy explicitly because of the box art. M >> well I mean boxers can still inspire you.

>> Yeah. It's not against the law. >> Yeah. I think the the the the thing with me of it is I would say it's two parts. It's um we were we were talking briefly about recipes which is kind of ways to paint and which paints to use and methods and steps and everything. And then the other half of it is just the color scheme and like how you're inspired by the box art. I I think the Nightbringer is a good example of one where >> I I think everything about that um >> the way it's painted it looks really good. I think I wouldn't necessarily uh need to I guess or want to look at like exactly which paints were used because it's much more about the >> how we're relating it to the generally if we got the Yeah, I agree with that and that piece in itself.

>> But I also wouldn't think I have to do my own spin on this color scheme like oh it's already been done in this sort of u bluey metallic NMM style. I need to do one that's like bright red. uh whereas other uh models that come out, I would think, okay, this is cool, but I want to do one in a totally different color scheme. So, it it's a little it differs from model to model, but this one I think being inspired by the box art makes a lot of sense. Um because it just it fits really well. Yeah. Anyway, >> yeah, we will we touched a little bit in the last episode about how boxers are also shackles.

Sometimes they they lead you somewhere and you you may be caught up into the what the boxer suggests that you have to do and then you may not go out of that idea and explore other things. So this we will talk about as well and how well Jamie will will say more about this I guess because he recently got enlightened. >> Well that is indeed where this all was going. Well, I wasn't leading it there. It just happened to land there. Um, fuck's sake. I just read another comment on YouTube. Happy New Year. Um, so yeah.

Well, well, the news the the news was last week Ann Ar and I went to Warhammer World, which we alluded to. Um, I mean, we literally said it. We didn't allude to it explicitly said it. Yeah. >> But we didn't really we didn't dive into there were a few things that happened on this trip. Okay. Yeah, actually we should go into the whole experience of the trip because it was fun. It was we have anecdotes. I nearly died about it and I also uh wasn't there. So, please by all means >> I don't know what would have happened if you had have been there. But um did you see the state of the hotels?

>> Okay, let's set the scene. >> A little bit. You you told me about there was um you lived in a brothel or sweat shop or something. I don't I think I think somebody rightly pointed out that um we would have woken out without a liver. >> You would have woken up like like or or you know some some some optional body part would have been missing. Um >> and this was a a hotel in Nottingham. >> Yeah. So >> yeah, I I actually imagined my door being opened at night and someone stealing something or or I don't know molesting me or or whatever. I don't know.

>> Slipping a finger in >> like it was it was that kind of after all. Yeah, >> the lock was was not going to hold anybody in who wants to get in. But I assume are now more means like the owner might come in with a key so there wouldn't be a loud bang. Um it right. So we went to Nottingham. >> Yeah. >> For everyone. >> Yeah. >> We went to Nottingham and we do as we normally do. We've got an Airbnb that we normally stay in. Okay. Unavailable. So, let's book another Airbnb. And I don't think we booked until we were there. No, no, we did. Shit, >> we did have one booked. So, we we did the whole Warhammer World. We met a staff member there that we like. We chatted to for like 3 hours. Then we went we toured Warhammer World with him, right? The the actual museum >> and then he had to go blah blah blah.

Then we went home 11:00 p.m. 11:30 and we couldn't get in. You need a secret security code, right? It turned out that they'd emailed us at 300 p.m. or something saying, "Don't forget to give us your passport cuz we can't give you the code without the passport." Um, and that was it. So, one bullshit thing. Got to the hotel. Important thing is we sat out there for half an hour and we just couldn't get in, right? We got a full refund eventually. So, then we were like, "Let's go." >> Was at 12:30 at night. >> Okay. So, now it's 12:30. So, we're already tired. Um, and we've driven as well. And then we book a well we talk about it Jay there's a £60 one here or 4045 it's got six stars though six stars it's not that bad >> it's a six out of 10 in booking which is not >> but then I I said to myself and out loud but it is hard to get it is hard to get a low rating on public voting. And I was like, six is pretty six is bad, >> but six is not that bad in in in

booking. Six is I mean, it's not great. >> You never I think everything is new. >> I mean, it was a three star hotel. >> And then we looked at the photos. Beautiful white, like pearly. Everything looked clean. It didn't look like things had died in there. Anyway, then we got there and it was when I was outside, I was like, the building does look like it's falling apart. Anyway, I'll speed it up. It looked like a shit hole. Okay, we went in. The bloke behind the desk looked like he was dying and then and we just and then while we were queuing cuz we pre-booked, um, two guys walked past us. They were shady as fuck, right? They were like, >> well, actually, when when we were parking, I saw a couple going in and I was absolutely dead sure it was a prostitute. Like, absolutely 100%.

>> I really wanted to make a joke like, and then the woman looked all right, aka the bloke was the prostitute. But yeah, it so >> Yeah. And and this is the dregs of Nottingham. Um no offense if you're from Nottingham. >> Wait, so this was at Warhammer World or was the I'm missing or was it No, >> this is at Nottingham. >> Yeah, I was joking. >> Yeah. Oh, sorry. I'll speed up the story for for brevity's sake. Shit hole hotel. We walked into Arnell's room. It's It's like somebody has hoovered up like spunk in a hoover, put water through it, and then put the blaster on to like blow it all across the room, right? It was It smelt disgusting and damp.

>> Uh and everything just looked shit, and nothing closed, blah blah blah. >> And the the carpet was >> the carpet was like when you >> like like full of something, you know? It was not It was >> Yeah. I literally think you could you could feel the dirt in the air, right? And then we went to my room and it was much better than our now's. There were a couple of spiders on the wall. There was black mold everywhere. And then our now I was butt naked, right? I was just about to hop into bed cuz I was really tired. It's probably like 10 1 at this point. And then Arnau was like, "Let's just go." And we'd already deliberated a bit and I was like, "Let's go." So, I put all clothes on and we got him and then we left and the bloke was like, "Did we get a refund for that on now?" >> We didn't. Uh, my my door had a two-finger space between the door and the floor. So, I could see everyone passing through on the front of my door.

It was just Yeah, >> I had I had people arguing and banging. They were banging on my door. Anyway, it was the worst hotel I've ever been to. And and for 60 quid, we ended up just paying another 100 quid, I guess, each to go to like a holiday in or some shit, right? And they upgraded us to the executive suite which was beautiful. Amazing suite. Especially after that brilliant. >> Yeah. >> Um but >> literally my room what could fit inside the toilet of the new room. Like it was that change of a difference. >> We Yeah, we've we've spent now >> you remember eight minutes.

>> Can you either publicly or privately give me the uh name and address of this the great state? We can. We can. >> Yeah. Both hotels. Cuz I >> Do you remember what it is, though? >> I have to know. >> I mean, we we could do a pilgrimage to that hotel. Like, >> yes. >> What? And go and stay in it. Jesus Christ. Imagine. >> No. No staying in it ever again. >> Oh, wow. That's a good idea. An actual challenge. Like, who can stay in there the longest >> in the lobby? >> You just literally end up like, "Yeah, well, I can stay." Um, why didn't we I probably shouldn't do it.

It's I I honestly believe this is like the most Again, we don't have many listeners, so it doesn't really matter, but um it's probably boring hearing about the hotel, except that it was disgusting and we'll never go back there. But I'm really annoyed that we didn't get a refund, I have to say. >> Yeah, >> I think that anecdote was better than just like we went to a hotel, it was decent, and then talking about that for 10 minutes. True. Well, this >> it's pretty rare that anyone I think finds a really really shit hotel. >> I mean, this is >> that was a totally pillow.

>> There was a piece of hair. Oh, yeah. Of course, there was a pubic hair. >> Oh, >> in my pillow. That's normal, I guess. >> The sounds of it, there could have been a gun in your pillow or a head. >> I'm pretty sure now's um >> some point for sure. like like not to go on again, but Arnell's covers had definitely not been washed. You know that feeling where they're soft versus like a fresh bed sheet? Arals for sure hadn't been washed. And to be honest, I love >> and my my my mattress was like this. It's like like concave. Very very very very concave.

>> Very weird. >> I'm impressed. >> Confused. Yeah, extreme extreme. >> We definitely should have got our money back and we paid 10 quid for the fucking parking. So that does lead nicely on to

though the Warhammer World experience and uh where we went from it. So we did talk about it last episode, right? And my whole thing about the box arts and you can change and not last episode, last season. Um well, so so if I may recap for our listeners because um they might have not heard this before all three of them. you were looking at the box art of the new uh skeleton dragon thing from the Camry range and are now pointed out to you that on the front I think there's both an illustration and a picture of the model and they're both renderings of the same thing but painted quite differently. Um, right.

>> Yeah. To be fair, it was not not exactly like that. It was close and actually it was firstly it was not with the with the dragon. The dragon came after but the first thing that we we saw was the skeleton box because Amy told me that he he didn't know how to paint bone or or he wanted to paint bone but he didn't know how how or we were looking at those skeletons and then he was pointing out something like how do you get to this white or how do you get to this you know and I was like fuck that white. this is pretty boring and you know and then literally on that box there was this artwork of a skeleton that was really cool and I said yeah look at this skeleton this has yellow ochres oranges greens you can put all of these into a skeleton the thing is a skeleton so you can paint it whatever you however you want and it will still look like a skeleton because that's what it is >> that is actually exactly what you said interestingly >> it's exactly what I said

>> how you can remember Um and and from there we moved to other boxes where there were other artboards and the dragon for example. And then I think that's where he started to realize that. >> Yeah. But the thing would always be a skeleton. So you may as well paint it whatever you want. >> Yeah. The key the key was that it's um it's a canvas basically. You can just paint it how you want. And I've always been very um stuck in my mindset that like that's what you should do. And I still do it now. It's only been like 3 weeks. I guess it's going to be hard to unlearn and and I need to paint a lot more and start throwing myself at that and realizing that you can paint stuff how you want to cuz I I think I've I've my whole painting like again I've not painted in six years but when I was I was still very much prescribed to what I saw. So if I see the box art, I kind of can't get rid of that from my mind, you

know, like I try and paint an orc and then I'm referring to pictures and I'm and that was where that comment years ago where I was like I don't like I want to be a painter who doesn't need references came from because I'm so influenced by them rather than using the references as inspiration and the concept the idea behind stuff. I'm much more like um yeah, you know, so that was that bit of the show and last week we went into it so we don't need to jump into it too much. But then what we did that transformed the museum mine changed completely is we got >> new mindset made the experience different.

>> No, no, we got seats >> that and and the idea of getting the the seats. Yeah. So, the disabled seats or the people, I don't know what they are. I I don't think they're actually for disabled people. I'm not sure if there's a logo there or not. >> Seats. >> So, Warhammer World does does indeed provide seats for you. >> Um, and yeah, they're little chairs, right? Yeah, like some of us had some accidents on the chairs. It's not a big deal, you know, that's totally that's fine if you fall off your seat. Um, >> yeah. Oh, fuck. >> At least we thought I thought it was on and I just I was sitting on the wrong part of the chair cuz there's only two legs. But um it meant that we spent like an hour on one cabinet. May maybe that's too far. May maybe it was more like 15 minutes, 20 minutes or something. Um >> but it but it really meant that you could >> Yeah. And talk about your hopes and dreams and what you're struggling with on this piece and what you like about this piece. It So we haven't finished the museum actually. Uh, ironically, the places, well, the huge thing that came out of it is I realized how bad 40k

sculpts are compared to Sigma. Um, like the Sigma sculpts are, and I say bad, I'm not saying the 40K sculpts are shit or anything, right? It's just they seem to be, as we've said, much more uh restricted. They're they're kind of like they're being held in a box. Like, you had an idea of an elder 20 years ago, and we can't deviate from that. >> Yeah. rather than whereas all the the Sigma stuff just seems to be just it's and I don't know the sculpts >> it's in in Sigma in in every single cabinet you have different things. So in every single army you have different things and then every single cabinet is different from each other because they have different armies and there's so much variety and instead when you go to 40k the whole room is all the same.

Literally. >> What? Literally? How? >> All space marines. The space marines between each other, they don't change anything. >> Yeah. >> The the space marines are different from tile or different from tyrannid are different from orcs. >> No, but space marines are the same as chaos space marines for example. The uh chaos demons have a lot less variety than age of sigmar. Um then there's obviously elder and dark elder but they they are also um armors as same as to and if even if they change shape they are still armors. So it's not like they they it's just different types of creatures with armors basically.

>> It's why I like the diuramas with orcs and knits in in Warhammer world. Um cuz they're like like my one of my favorite diuras. cuz I know it's not what we're talking about, but is the I don't know where it is, but you know the Tyranniders versus Black Templars like that thing just still blows my mind with the bridge and >> black templars. >> They are Templars, I think. >> Which that one is >> it's a long bridge like like like that and you've got like a small terminate squad fighting and like the champions guard and and Tyrannins just seem to be absolutely wrecking the space br. Um >> I don't think they are black templars. I think they are iron hands or >> they're black, right?

>> Yeah, >> I see. >> Well, I don't know. >> Yeah, I can show you a photo, man. Um Yeah, it's interesting. Like, I've hated Sigma since it came out. Like, just just without any real reason, right? It's just it's not Elder, so I hate it. Um rather than any uh sane reason. And I've always refused to paint um anything other than Elder, but but this trip now has seriously I'm like there's so many demons that I want to paint and and characters and things I'm just like that would be fucking amazing. Um, and it's a weird feeling because I've been so righteous, so devoted to Elder that all of a sudden it >> it's interesting that that you had this kind of uh experience now because aside from the the painting uh epiphany, you've obviously been to Warmer World many times and you've seen all of these miniatures many, many times. Why do you think you had a

different reaction to just seeing the miniatures this time? Was it just because of the time spent looking at them? Like actually reflecting? >> It's it's much No, you're right. It's it's different because before um I was looking at them and and hating them cuz I was like, well, A, I can't paint them, right? >> And b they're not I don't care about the law and I can't see any I couldn't see any creative outlet, I think, is probably the best way to sum it up. I I couldn't look at it. That's that's actually actually quite important because seeing it how you used to see Warhammer um being a reproduction of the of the box arts.

>> Mhm. >> The only way you would be um engaging with it is with Elder because they you love Elder. >> But you don't love the the the idea of painting Elder. You just like the idea of having Ela. >> Yeah, that's exactly. >> Now I guess that shifted to I can paint something and it doesn't need to be. I just can I can create something. >> Yeah. Literally >> doesn't matter what it is.

>> Yeah. Exactly. Um it was a weird it's a it was a very weird moment. I'll be honest cuz it happened so quickly. So, this is just this now this has become another Huppa show. Um, which is all right. Yeah, it's I guess it's not and it's but it it is weird cuz now I'm looking at pieces of art and I'm thinking like damn, I could just paint on that. And what what's also weirdly interesting is I need to finish this warlock, right? So, I've spent a long time cleaning and organizing my room again. Um, it was a mess and I've now I've got the warlock that I started on my desk and I'm much less motivated to paint it than I was. But I'm still going to finish it.

>> But it's interesting because I'm like, it's an elder. >> Why are you less motivated? >> Cuz it's a black elder with very little creativity on it. Right. >> That's interesting. >> Yeah. >> So you you don't care as much that it's an award. you care more that it's not really interesting. >> Yeah. Like especially black, right? I mean, I'm c I'm still caught in a weird place cuz the more I look at it, the more I like it. So, it's like I'm >> the miniature or the paint job?

>> Both. No. Well, I like the miniature, but the paint job. Like, it's like 40k playing. I'm off I'm off that now, right? But the more I talk to my mates or read about updates, read about rules, I feel it slightly sliding back into me. >> Um, >> and I mean I I think the reality is if I just paint more, it will naturally come back and it will it's show itself. But I'm trying hard to not get tunnel vision as well. Anyway, yes, the basically there's a couple of models I saw in Warhammer World where I was just like, shit, that would be amazing to try and paint from a a real like expression isn't the right phrase cuz it's too not condescending um twatlike. What's the what do we call it?

>> Pretentious. >> Pretentious. But that is the kind of feeling I'm getting. I want to I want to spread my wings and I want to uh make mistakes and I want to just see where I'm at and then feel the pain. >> Amazing. >> I'm I've got trepidation about it though because when I start failing I think is when the real test starts happening >> when it's hard when when >> maybe >> you know >> but the trepidation also sounds more like you're just uh a little bit kind of managing expectations. We've talked a lot about expectations before. I think trepidation is just another word for like you're thinking about what you can expect from it and you're preparing for disappointment. That's fine. That's sounds pretty healthy.

>> Yeah. And and potentially I'm slowing and avoiding it to try and protect myself from that. Uh >> which again is something I don't want to do. Um but yeah, I'm going to finish this warlock um to move on from my segment. Um and

to Taskmasters. >> Well, yeah. I So, I've planned that and I'm looking forward to doing the base, right? I need to go to Siren Games here in Austria to buy some more Millie. I've got a Milliput, but it's like six years old. It's somehow it's gone hard and shit like that, right? Um I mean, I could just do it without Milliput and just But I I think I want to try and do something that I've not done basically. And I've seen you two use it, so why can I not? I thought about it by the way and I know it's a bit late for you but I think the task masters of this of this particular month or edition which will be called taskmaster 2 or whatever is I think it's better if we don't do duels like just a couple of uh figures of the same thing you know because that opens a different avenue that can be another Um because what what we want is to make it very simple. I mean if someone does that's completely fine. Of course >> do what? Do what you're saying they shouldn't

>> duel. >> Dual. >> Oh I see. With conversions. I see. I see. >> Yeah. Yeah. What what we want is something very simple. Two two characters of the same squad or you know two figures of the same squad uh interacting in in a very simple way with a base. So this is the only point of it doing uh uh yeah a couple of characters simply just posing or action poisoning. >> Yeah. And ideally simple ones. I guess we're easing us us of the six listers in aren't we? We and we're not including those six listeners. Yeah. Okay. Well, yeah. I I mean I I started going I it wasn't a jewel but I started doing those warlocks and um yeah I think um they're a bit too too hard. Although are we doing task masters at the end of Jan or we doing until the end of Feb?

>> End of February. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Right. Fine. So I' I've got long enough. I could experiment with some other models but um yeah. Right. I think um I think we are Where the fuck is the There it is. Thought of the day quickly. >> Is there a jingle? >> Did we Did we uh Are we done with the meat? >> We haven't started the day. >> We haven't started it. >> Good. Okay. >> Good. You fuckers. Right. Where is Where is it? Where's the >> I think I think I am. Therefore, I am.

>> And it's of course the jingle for thought of the day, which takes longer than the actual thought of the day. You have to vote between 1 and five. >> One. >> Wow. It's been there a Why do people sleep with their clothes on or underwear? That's my thought of the day. That That boughs me out. You could rephrase that. Why don't people sleep naked to be honest? >> Um, right. >> I guess comfortability in a sense. I mean, we are used to being clothed most of the time.

>> That sounds about right. >> I'm not >> I think people some people might find it strange to have just >> to be naked. What the most natural form of our personal selves? >> Yeah, >> it is. But but at the same time, we spend so little time naked. It's >> true. >> That our default is closed. >> That's what it is. That's your answer. >> I don't know how they don't get hot. But yes, >> um hot. >> People People sleep in um people are fucking cold where they live. Not me.

I'm very comfortable even though it's freezing outside. But in other countries like the UK, >> I mean we I thought of the day isn't necessarily to dive in, but I guess we need to just quickly resolve this issue. So I I I get fucking boiling in bed always, right? And the concept and then sometimes when I have my like 10-minute naps, 12-minute naps, I won't be fully naked for it, right? Cuz normally I will be. like it's worth the effort to actually have a nice nap and spend a little bit of extra time by getting it all off versus and and every now and then I forget, right? And I wear my I wear my boxes and they they fucking twist around on your body like and then you ended up with your balls and everything all like wrapped around like it's just really really uncomfortable and I just I can't get I just I couldn't get my CO. I thought about it and it suddenly hit me that some people sleep with their Maybe that's why they don't wear boxes and they wear pajamas.

>> Yeah, I guess. >> Yeah. >> And my t-shirt like goes like this. I think I I I I do that a lot. >> The t-shirt is more annoying than the pants. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't sleep with a t-shirt almost ever. That's uh I also get tangled in it. It's terrible. >> Well, it's quite funny when I >> but small and your arms are free. Um >> like when I sleep with my mates and we go and we share a room like sometimes I'll tell them look just I'm warning you I'm butt naked. Okay. But then I get hot and obviously like I need to have half my covers. So, there's been some accidents and some shouting, but but I slept with Lionel like 10 times in the same room, and he never once saw me naked. At least alleged. He never said it, but that's how much I hate wearing underwear in bed.

>> I think Lionel saw you many, many times. But he's a gentleman. >> He's a true gentleman. A very sexy. >> Never slept in your room. >> There you go. And you could start, but I've stopped letting people sleep in my room now. So, um, we should go to the

meat of it now. Hold on. Let me do the fucking jingle, boys. New season, right? What's the meat of it? I'm vegetarian. That is That's That is a good fucking jingle. Solid. It's It was hated when it came out. >> You You know that the meat of it was called Something Different before? >> Yeah, I've got it. Hold on. Um, >> is that a quiz for the Mini Murders fans? >> Wasn't it topic of the week? topic of the week. >> Topic of the week. >> That was it. It was topic of the week. It's not It doesn't really roll off the tongue, does it?

>> It's It's accurate though cuz it's There's the the week and the topic. >> Yeah, I agree. >> So, >> what the fuck was it? >> Box arts. No, recipes and box arts and box boxing yourself in >> something that pisses it pisses me off. Maybe it's not it's a bit too harsh, but let's say pisses me off. >> It's not harsh enough >> when when someone asks me, for example, I paint I paint whatever paint and they ask me which one is this red or which which color did you use for this green? And it's like it doesn't fucking matter.

It's just green. It's just red. Use whatever red you want, which the difference will be nothing like it is not the pot of red that did this is is everything, you know. So, it doesn't it doesn't matter. It's you you you are able to just see a pot of thread and see if you like it or not because most threads are more or less the same. It's not like it changes drastic drastically. So >> it's not >> Yeah. No.

>> So I said I'm writing down the things so I don't have to. But >> I think it stems from my vast experience of not being able to paint. Um an understanding or or their lack of so they don't have they they've got no understanding of of of the real ways or how you paint or what painting is. So >> No, I know. I know. But the real the real luck is not that. The real luck is the the not trying the not not wanting to just try or explore yourself.

>> Yeah, I agree that it's uh it's it's interesting because I find the same thing when people ask uh I'm happy to answer uh any of those questions. Um, and I and I do point people often to the EV archive, and I'll do that now again if anyone hasn't seen it. It's really good. It's got tons of recipes from official box arts, >> uh, including >> How did they find them? >> From the artist, what are you saying? How did they How did >> Yeah, the recipe. Yeah, like I wouldn't know what the recipe was by looking at.

I mean, obviously the old box arts had the recipes more or less, didn't they? >> Huh? No. Well, no. Well, not really. No, this the the colors on the back of the box were never >> That's true. >> I mean, really never close to how they were actually painted. Aside from just having like this is red, so blood red, you know, but it's not there's not not much to get from that. No, the recipes were just heavy metal painters needed to write down how things were painted and we uh ordered a lot of that stuff to the heavy archive. um especially has uh himself Dave Perman who was an heavy metal painter and had some of those recipes. Um but yeah, I think it's it's useful and it's uh and it can be really helpful. What I I think it's interesting because it's what I was going to say like what what you were saying Arno is that it it creates this weird reluctance to try things yourself and I always find that that needs I want to see that in like the I want to see that progression.

If someone wants to find out how to paint something through those recipes and um the exact method the exact paints used and the exact way to apply them then that's that can be really useful. But if if that then doesn't lead to you going, "Okay, well, I've done this now. So, what if I swap these red paints for some green paints in similar, you know, shades and I'll paint this other thing using that?" Like, at at some point, I kind of want to see if people just try shit out themselves. Uh yeah, and and also and perhaps more importantly, uh you need to on some level understand why that recipe looks the way it does >> because that's that's the problem to me to me is a lot of >> you know why why do we do all of this stuff? It can be like the most obvious things to some people. I still want you to like have an understanding of why >> well that I get I think that gets missed a lot. Like I remember 2018 19 Andy Ward posted some N&M, right? Um and I asked

him like what paints did you use and he gave me the paints. So, I bought those paints and then I tried to paint N&M and I was like, is he did he like I think he's lied maybe or like how the how the fuck has he got from these paints which was like um like a British uniform brown and like a sandy yellow and some whites, right? I was I just couldn't get my head around conceptually how he'd managed to make this look like Eminem. And now like I'm a bit older and I realize you could you could make anything look like N&M.

The colors are irrelevant as long as >> Yeah. Like it's But I didn't get I I just I hadn't had the experience or hadn't been around people who painted to know, right? Like but it makes a it makes sense though that you would ask that cuz you could see the you could see something that he painted gold and think that's a really nice tone. recreate that >> brown, yellow, gold. I want to know what colors you used. I get that because it's not just looking at one color and thinking, "Oh, that looks like a sort of yellowish brown." It's also like, "What?

How do I mix that to get highlights? Should I mix it with like a a bone color or white color?" I think it makes sense to want to know which colors were used. But again, you need to try to fill in or ask like why what's it actually doing instead of just working from that recipe like a machine >> like yeah I mean that's it like machine analogy almost like if it's a car and you're like how do I make a car work and the guy just gives you petrol but you're like no no >> I didn't realize that I need to know oh there's no fucking engine you know you don't you don't have >> or even honestly it's It's like cooking.

I mean, if we want to use the recipe, actual recipe analogy, like if you put loads of different things in a sauce or a stew or something and you don't know what all of them are doing, then yeah, you could end up with something really delicious. But it will really it will make it much easier for you to create something uh similarly delicious later on if you understand what each of those ingredients are doing. Like what are they actually adding? And you can and you will know better if there's something that you subtract. If you're like, "Well, I don't have fucking margarm at home." Well, it doesn't, you know, it doesn't matter because so and so it doesn't add. You know what I'm saying?

>> Yeah. If you understand >> for me, >> yeah, >> for me the problem is that have you ever had this experience where you play a video game that someone else close to you have has already beat and then you are stuck somewhere and then you ask them for how how do I smoke this because you have the patience or but you you are not you are not finding it and then from that point on it gets progressive ly more difficult to find the stuff yourself and then you keep asking how did you solve this and then you get caught in this weird way of not being able to solve the game because you have not solved anything. Yeah, >> this this happens so much in painting and and the problem with asking these things is that you get used to ask them uh and when you are you are used to asking them you are not used to trying and solving it yourself because you have the little

answers in front of you. You if you have the the picture of the of the figure you can just look at it and just solve it yourself. um you will not find the exact pot of paint, but that doesn't matter because you don't know how what delusion did he make, what how percentages of of mix of colors at at any point or it's so pointless. Um, I know it seems so useful, but it's actually I don't think it is because I could do I could do five different paint jobs with with the same three pots of paint and you would never know that they use the same three pots of paint because of how you mix colors, because how you the what amount of one color, what amount of the other. You know, painting is very complex and um knowing which specific pot of paint you used, it solves nothing. It solves much more if you try to see it in general ways.

Like I have this box here. He used some reds, some yellows, some whatever. I will pick myself some red, some yellow and try to figure it out. I think if you don't do this, you are shackling yourself for the rest of your life to not being able to do it. >> I partly agree, but I think it's a little it's we're kind of saying the same thing cuz you said now like you still want to know if that person used a red, a yellow, a skin color, a dark brown, whatever it is, and then just saying which is just a detail.

But I I I agree that it's it doesn't matter exactly which. But I would rather just say that if someone asked me like which yellow >> No, of course you just go it doesn't matter. This one just find a yellow paint. But I would still be curious to know the method as in like which steps did you take? >> It's I I couldn't I couldn't possibly answer that question. And when someone asks me about colors, I always say the colors for sure. Even if I if I think that it will be pointless, I always say it. But the method I I don't think it's even possible to explain it because it's not a method. It's it's a it's it's it's organic. It it it's not like I put a color then a color and then a color and that's it. You know, I there's a lot of colors involved, a lot of mixing, a lot of trying one color and then it doesn't, you know, and then you tweak and you tweak. So it's not a a straight line at all.

>> I think that >> so and I know that we are talking it depends a lot on levels and with too much understanding of painting but um I think being conscious of how complex painting is is much more useful than simplifying it and just staying in the simplified version. I think >> but don't you think that make when you when you uh if you feel like it's complex as you say it is, don't you think that that can be intimidating and make things too convoluted?

>> Yes, absolutely. Um but that's why I think trying is so important because then you you you can try and fail or not. you can succeed in some part and then build upon that because you are not going to get it at the first try. It's a a a complex thing probably took years of learning on to the people that who painted it. Right? So if you want to learn that the best way to do is trying it uh and try to approach it and then I failed. I I will ask how why did I fail?

What's what's separating me from this try to to the right one? This is a good question because it it it's a more specific answer that you know you maybe you need to use different types of of this color because this color is a bit desaturated or or I don't know the proportion that you used is a bit off or you know it's a more specific answer that I can solve but >> some questions are so big that are impossible to answer. That's why frustratingly I've got loads of written down from points I have, but frustratingly why the most popular answer when um people who don't know how to paint or or at least less experienced people ask is more experienced people and they just say practice and you're like I I I've heard that answer a 100 times, but actually I'd never understood until we started doing the cast why practice is so good. You know, saying practice is just a is a very frustrating

answer. So I had um >> yeah I had what I I literally wrote this is how I got frustrated while learning. Now I can't remember exactly what that was about but I think it was because you would have yeah can't remember I should have written the the context of that but it was something you were saying. Um and then I've got if nobody uh gives advice everyone would get better basically. Um but that's like yeah you you went into a bit more but we've come up with that now in the last like month or so right that finish the piece and then asked for feedback on my models cuz then you make the mistakes rather than during cuz I've always asked during >> ah that was it. Okay that's why this is how I got frustrated while painting. I'd do a project and I'd paint something and then I would get stuck and then I'd be like, "Fuck, I wanna I want to resolve this to the high level that I want to resolve it to." Uh, Alfonso, how can I do this? And he'd never really give me an answer. Um, except for on the the where we did the course thing and he did

the video uh the editing Photoshop and then he he could give me answers cuz he could show me exactly how it should be, but I didn't learn from it because I think my mindset wasn't there. I I'd get frustrated when I couldn't resolve something because I couldn't I couldn't see ever how to do it because I wanted it it to be perfect. Rather than I'm going to keep trying to do this, fail, leave that piece, get to the next one. It was this piece has to be perfect. And I think that was just my mentality from the start. I always thought I had to finish a piece to enter a competition to try and place rather than seeing as a journey.

>> I think you said something quite that opens another window which is the wanting to be perfect is something that you want it to be in a certain way in a very specific way that you set in your mind that it's the only way and and this is not like this. This is reality is not like this. When you paint something, this painting evolves. It sometimes will not end like you you envisioned at the start. Sometimes it will you will find new ways. You will find new things to do. You will improve upon your idea at the start. This is normal and this is actually the best way to to mature a project. You know, you think about it, you know what to do, you start doing it, and then when you start doing it, you realize things, you realize that some things will be look better in in one way or the other because you're seeing it in real life.

So when you are maturing this project, this is when the when the real choices are important. the the thinking is like the pre choices, but the real choices come when you're painting. And then from there, some some things will end up like you envision, some things will not. But it's it's more about trying to play with the piece and try to lead it to the best possible outcome from the starting point that you started. But that was just no starting

point. if you know what I mean. Your idea, your your set goal is not really a thing because there's many many many many ways of doing a cool figure >> to be adaptable. I think I think I I I remember Alphonso was like just do it again, start again, not not the whole piece, this bit or this thing's wrong, blah blah blah. Right? And I never did it because I think I was I was like I spent an evening on that. I don't want to lose an evening of painting, so I'm just going to leave it.

Or I was too scared that I wouldn't be able to recreate that same thing that I've already created because I I had no like I think I'm slowly like is it is it semi-tangent? Yeah. Okay, it's too much of a tangent. Um, but I'm slowly getting my head around the fact that painting is is a process and a hobby rather than painting something I need to conquer, if that makes sense. You know, like I've always had it in my head, like we spoke about it, right? >> I want to be good at this and I want to be better than I was 6 months ago and in 5 years I want to win a golden demon.

And um, these were this is why I stopped painting. Not not because like Alfonso pushed me too far. I I I realize it now. I think it was just that well this is relatable to what I was saying that was too far like looking back now Alphonsa was giving me loads of advice um that I just wasn't ready to hear which is really weird and in in itself is a bit pretentious but like I was I was I wanted to paint this way and I wanted him to teach me what I wanted to think I wanted to to learn if that makes sense.

>> Like I just want to paint like a golden demon winner. I didn't ever articulate it, but that's what I was thinking I wanted to do and that was my goal. So everything that he was teaching me was how to be a better painter. I've only used one this episode. Um like and now I go back and I hear his lessons in my head cuz as I said to you all now, they're very similar to what you say in terms of the concept of painting. Um, it's just it's just funny that only now and it's taken six years of it living in my head and then now we're starting to talk about painting and it's it's coming up where I'm like, "Oh shit, yeah, he did say that." And like I disagreed with it at the time, but I didn't disagree strong enough to like bring him up on it or anything. I was just like, "Okay, that's cool, but I don't really see why that's relevant to me or how that's going to help me." Um, and now I'm I'm I'm thinking like the way I painted before was like 2016 I painted that Eldra, the first model I painted when I came back to painting. I spent like 100 hours on it, right? And it's just the worst color choices you've ever seen and there's like no contrast

in it and like you can't really see what anything is going on in it, but it's well refined and it's it's sharp and stuff, but it's just a shit model. Um, and that was so I'd always thought Alfonsa was pushing me away from the heavy metal style. Basically, he didn't want me to do this like spend a long time on a model. But I realized now, no, he was he was teaching me how to paint. And if I want to spend 100 hours off the back of it when I've got the more knowledge or the normal knowledge, normal I don't think is the right word, but then you can do it.

>> Yeah. Exactly. Like, and I and I lacked that. And that wasn't through anything. I think it's just cuz I had no exposure to painting at all. I I'd never read an article. I'd never seen any. I was just looking at painting, right? So, >> I just find it interesting and quite um I don't know what the word would be like refreshing that actually um I needed to just yeah get away from all of the stuff before. So to link it into this uh back fully um I think that I I think that I resisted because I was too scared of of having to put like to recreate stuff which means like I've which again backs up the idea that I I want it to be perfect rather than I'm painting a project and I'm learning and I'm having fun. Like Martin in your when you did your golden demon gold piece 2025 unit um I'm just doing that for the cuz it will SEO you know it will and then the algorithm will know that you want

gold >> 25 gold golden demon >> Germany um >> if you made a mistake on one of those pieces did you make a mistake at any point where you had to clean it or start again or >> uh I don't think I made I don't think I had to start over on anything. Well, I had a few times where I thought I could. Uh spec specifically the heads I decided I would paint more than I needed and then I just ended up uh being quite happy with the first ones I did. But it I think it >> Yeah. May maybe not them then like >> maybe when you're at the studio or basically what I mean is like did you have a moment where you were like >> shit I've just done this like really well-refined time consuming part of a model but I don't like the way it fits in this model.

>> Yeah. No, it it happened a few times not not often but it happened a few times that I painted something and someone suggested that I paint it a different color. >> Mhm. >> Uh and uh then Yeah. And then you've you've you might have spent a long time refining something and then just kind of it's a little bit just like you're like okay I'm really annoyed with this but I'll just I'll be annoyed and I'll just do it. >> It's just like someone in my job then being like look that last three days of work you did we can't use it.

>> I'm sure. Exactly. I'm sure it happens to a lot of people and a lot of and that's just one of the many times where I reminded myself that working as an heavy metal painter is a job >> and uh that doesn't mean like oh so you you have to do what is that you know what you're told that's not my point but like it sometimes it sucks >> it's just it sometimes it's actual work and you just have to do something twice or you have to >> and there was a couple times uh where we painted bits and uh I can think of two where they came late in in the process and said like, "Oh, actually we can't fit this on the sprew, so just break it off and toss it in the bin." >> You're like, >> "That's quite funny, >> I guess, >> cuz you get the >> Yeah, it's kind of weird.

>> You get the 3D print >> one that they actually >> Sorry. >> You get the 3D prints and then they put them on the screen. You get the lead made from 3D prints. Exactly. So there's no sprew when everything's painted. There was one time I made a little grely on a base and they came back. I think maybe even we noticed it. is like this this bit is different on the finished product. It looks different. They're like, "Oh, oops." Yeah. So, just break that off, throw in the bin, paint a new one. And you're like, "Yeah, you're it's um similar to I guess what you're saying with uh repainting something because you had to change it." But this was more someone else's initiative.

So, because basically what I'm getting at with all this is like it's more indicative of of learning to be free as it were. And I my whole life painting I wasn't as I say free in terms of I can bosch a model out in like you know two evenings or something. I I would be spending like weeks and months on on pieces which lent itself to finding it more difficult to learn because >> yeah, >> I was so worried about it being perfect. But it's interesting because Albert, he's been like that the whole way. So maybe Albert's just an enigma or some sort of prodigy kind of cunt where >> in a lot of ways, yes, he is.

>> Do you know what I mean? >> But I think I think he he he repainted a few things on his latest piece as well. >> I think that's now when he's experienced >> like >> Yeah. that that's kind of what I'm >> repainting things. And it's funny what you said about having spent an evening on something and not wanting to repaint it because you don't know if you'll be able to recreate it. I feel like that all the time with like everything I've done. And it's ridiculous. And I It's such a weird like flavor of uh bad uh self-confidence. Again, I have a a massive huge range of different kinds of bad self-confidence, but it's it's weird that I would think I would look at something that I did in, you know, August of last year and think like, well, that's the last time I'll ever do that. Like, I won't do anything that's better than that, you know? Uh or something I did in 2019. It's weird, but I so I can kind of recognize that thing of like, no, but I I did it I did it the one time and it's great.

>> Why would I, you know, risk ruining it and doing it again? But that's I think that plays into a little bit what and I was talking about that one time with your um Eminem uh experience with uh not being uh too afraid just not being afraid of doing something whether it's doing something for the first time or doing it again ruining something you've done before to improve on it is sometimes you just kind of be a little bold because uh and never ever see like what you're doing as the culmination of anything but just another step. Just like try to envision the next hundred steps on your journey and uh assume that they'll be you know you're not going to get incrementally better every single time but you're also not suddenly just going to drop off and like nope that's that's as good as you're going to get.

Sorry. Like that's not how it works.

it I guess the the the person who's asking right for this advice like oh how I don't know what it is how this color or how did you do X right or or very rarely do I hear why interestingly when people ask you for feedback oh now or Albert >> I don't hear like why should why do I blah blah blah right I hear how do I but it it must just come from two things philosophy and um lack of knowledge is is was all I can attribute it to because philosophy in in as much that where I've been the last you know I guess in total nine years but only three of them I was painting but I want to get better so I see a problem I need to know this one solution to get better right I need to know this exact thing cuz I can see it it's in front of me I know I can't resolve it so if I put this then I can put that in my bank of shit I know and I can move on to the next one right in a really like defined like boolean logic way and then the

second one was um because they don't understand uh painting on a whole and that they can't ask the right question >> how difficult it is. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And that is actually it occurs to me that when I get these questions that are so difficult to answer or or impossible to answer, they usually come from people who are not that into painting like the a mid-range painting, a mid-range painter that knows that and paints often and does well enough for even for standard competition.

Uh they usually don't ask these questions. They don't ask questions about how did you paint this or because they know that this is not a question that you can >> it the answer would not satisfy you >> because it doesn't follow a pattern. It doesn't follow a process. It doesn't follow a how. It's just I just painted it, you know, because maybe >> I was going to ask >> that as an aside are now cuz it occurs to me with box arts, you've painted a lot of uh busts and larger figures and it's always nearly always one thing. So you you talk about one piece being one model like one face, one sword and so on. Um, and I've painted a ton of units uh for every metal and that requires like actually requires a much more like structure. Um, you need to have a method. You know, we're talking about what a method is and

like I need to actually even if it's something like the um the stone trolls that we just did those three >> and we're probably not going to need to replicate that, but it's still three models that need to look good with each other. What is your approach when you're doing something like I was thinking about this the diarama that you did with the space marines and the chaos space marines? >> Did you not like write down any recipes for any armor colors or anything? So, when you painted I don't know how many space marines, did you literally do all of them at the same time?

>> I did one by one. >> Not even shaking. >> You didn't. >> You made no notes of what colors used? >> No, >> really. >> But yeah, but uh for the f the main thing is that I don't think they have to be the same color. They they can have slight variations because they have variations of light. >> They have variations of temperature. And those space marines, they have variations as well. >> Yeah.

>> They just look cohesive. But some are lighter than others. >> Mhm. >> It just doesn't it doesn't need to be the same. I mean, I would never want them to to be the same because that makes it boring >> and it takes the reality of it. But on a takes away >> on a heavy metal box art or thing. I would be freaked out if they were different. >> It would you would lose the right. Yeah. The the uniformity I think >> we are used to it. We are used to it. But if you see if you see an URL unit and all of them are different, you would be oh that's really cool. Or maybe more to the point, if you see a Codex cover illustration, you wouldn't have exactly the same color of the armor are that's much more like the style you're going for, right? You're much more into the atmosphere of the entire piece rather than several space marines painted similarly and then here's OSL on one guy, here's >> this color on this guy's helmet. It's

much more about the Yeah, I just find it I I guess I knew that you were painting it that way, but I just find it really interesting that you would approach uh interesting but also obvious that you would approach several models like multiple space marines in the same way that you would a single bust. But I guess it makes a lot of sense. >> But it's not like for me they are not single space marines. They are whole. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so they are parts of an image. The same the same way as in one of your space marines the the gauntlet, the leg, the you know they they do the thing as a whole in a diorama. Every single character make plays a part in this hole. And if I have a space marine on the edge of the base, these specimens cannot be the lightest part because I I will fuck up the composition. It will have to be the darkest. And the ones in the center, they will have to be the brightest. So all of them are like a Power Rangers megapor where every single every single

one is a part of it, you know, and they have to play together. It's not like um I have single characters just put in a base. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I I thought about that approach not as an option for myself, but I thought about it when I was working on my unit, that concept, because I wanted to glue all my models to the base and have one cohesive base. And it brings it closer to that approach of, well, if they're always going to be in that one spot, then why not think about the overall lighting? And uh I guess you know I'm still painting the way I paint and I'm going to but it it occurred to me that there is much more um space and much an opportunity to think about things like that. Even something as simple as one model having uh like if you're doing OSL you can have the the the O on one model and the you know the source from one model reflecting on something else.

There's there's one one little thing that it's it seems not too important, but it's it's actually the the tip of the of the iceberg where it starts to get uh to the to this place, which is how you position models. Usually when we start doing diuramas or or things like this, we think of them as individual models in a base and then but they are still individual models and what we do is space them enough to be able to see them to see all of them, right? And this fuck fucks up the composition and it makes them look separate from each other.

Instead, if you don't think about them as single characters and you don't don't care if this leg is not seen or this arm is not seen, you can make them interact, make them the poses complement each other almost touching each other. Uh create silhouettes because if you have different characters, the silhouettes are just one silhouette, one silhouette, one silhouette. And instead if you put them together, play with the with the shapes, then you have a whole silhouette which is one silhouette.

And then this is what leads to painting it as a whole because you don't have them separate. And it seems uh almost not important, but I think it starts here. It starts on the position. >> I think the question is super important. I wouldn't say I mean I know you're not talking about my unit specifically but I think there's different ways to approach like what you're actually trying to do. I think for uh >> for like the unit category and golden demon I am still concerned with every model being separate >> and then for a diorama I would completely agree that you need to think of it as a whole and actually having models that obstruct each other or >> um yeah where >> it also shows >> where you're not really paying attention to one individual guy as much as the overall scene. It's I think it's a really different approach, but I totally agree that uh like a diarama and the silhouette of and the composition becomes much more important and actually the only thing that's important.

>> Yeah, I agree. It shows the difference as well again between Golden Demon and Monty vibe, right? Like >> Golden Demon want to see the models and they want to see how much effort you've put in. It's it's it's I think if I I'm slowly building an image in my head that Golden Demon wants to see skill first and then dedication almost. Um >> if that makes sense. Like you can't win unless you're extremely skilled. Yeah. You've just like you've got to have this skill. But then you can't win with a piece that you've painted in a week, >> right? cuz then you won't be able to get the skill that they're looking for out, I don't think, cuz you just can't do it in that time. Um, and then Monty, I think, is looking for more like it's not expression, but it's like >> it is a little bit that I I would say for >> Yeah, it's pictorial the ptoical side of painting. And the the amount of time you spent on it is is

is almost irrelevant as long as what you're producing is like >> it's it's you know we were talking about the storytelling category. They're big fans of that. They they like someone having a really exciting idea and maybe even having something to say. Whereas in Golden Demon, no one gives a shit what you have to say. It just needs to fit in that world and look really cool. But >> I would also add the caveat that the judges, individual judges make a lot of difference uh to any show. Yeah. Right. Yes. But is it >> so Yeah, Monte we know is is a lot of painters. Golden Demons been all over the place for the last 10 years. But >> yeah, with fluctuations on Yeah. what they're looking at. And I mean it I find it very relatively interesting in that like on my own journey right now I'm going to more um away from Golden Demon, right? and a bit more towards I don't know what yeah this arty style right but um when I I mean we we spoke about it when I browseed Monty I felt nothing it might be different now if I went around to Monty now and looked but the thing is

when I go to Monty or when I go with my new painter hat I'm looking at things as canvases but when you go to Monty you're not meant to look at things as canvases you're meant to look at them as individual art pieces right like this is what that artist wanted me to see whereas heavy metal the box arts are are specific specifically designed so that you see the whole thing and all the details so that you can view it more of a c as a canvas right that's literally what it's designed for to sell Monty's got nothing to do with selling models so golden demon I enjoyed more than I enjoyed at Monty right I think I said that and I think I maintain it but and it's so it's interesting that I still believe that that's what will happen I still think I will prefer seeing the pieces in in Golden Demon over Monty, but it might just be because of the law and everything around it.

>> Yeah, it might be that. >> I think I think it's a big part. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting one for me. Um because Yeah. But now I'm interested to see what Monty's like next year. Now I'm a bit more twatty, I guess, a bit more pretentious cuz in inherently if you like art, you are pretentious, right? I feel >> potentially >> I don't think we Yeah, I mean we've we've spoken about that phrase. I don't think it's pretentious to like art. I think most people do.

>> I think all people do whether they kind of uh say that or not. >> It's the kind of art like is Albert pretentious for saying he wants to go to the museums in Italy? Probably not. But you know, it's a question to ask. >> I like museums, man. >> Yeah, I know you all do and it makes me sick. Um, so really to summarize everything was we said, not to move it along, but to move it along. Um, the best painters are basically painters who um don't ask for feedback. I'm that is contentious and a joke but and who just want to paint freely. Right? That would be what basically summing it up.

If you can, if you could have one advice, >> don't have as don't ask for advice on how to get things done. Ask for advice on how to improve once you've done it. >> Um, >> yes. >> And and be prepared to just be in there for a long time. Like you don't have to be this amazing painter on day seven. Um, but also I think the community is at part or human nature is at part to blame for that because someone posts a picture and people aren't people never ask in in Discord, on Facebook, on anything. No one's ever asked, "How did you find the project? Did you have fun doing it?" 100% the only answer you ever get is, "Um, that's great, man. That looks cool.

Oh, wow. That's amazing." So, >> I actually I thought that was a very nice thing when I posted the Killer Can. I think you Jamie asked if I enjoyed it. No, maybe are now. One of you asked if I thought it was a fun project to work on. >> Yeah, >> I thought that's a fucking good question actually. Taskmaster is about it's literally about having fun. And I think that Taskmaster can fall into the >> chore which I would hate. >> Yes. Yeah. >> If it's a chore.

>> Yeah. Where you forced to do it. >> And >> Mhm. >> Yeah. And and it's it's a way to try to find the the in that project. >> Like it's a good question to it was a good reminder for myself to ask that question more with stuff I do. Um, not that I don't know what I like painting, but it's it was a good reminder. >> You can sometimes just focus on >> Yeah. And so, and a lot of the things that I think we maybe all of us, but for me, when I paint, I don't really >> It's like I kind of move past that. It's just I've decided to do this. I'm just going to do it now. Whether it's for like a competition or for money or for whatever it is, it's like I'm this is what I'm doing now. That should be our journey >> entirely clear of of whether like do I enjoy this? Is it fun?

>> Yeah, that's our journey. Martin, now I don't know now if you need to be included on that, but you always say how much you enjoy painting. So, I think not. And Martin, I've heard you say as well, but our our journey should be for season 4 is in how to find enjoyment or it's too generalized cuz cuz we we obviously enjoy it, but like how to consistently be like, I'm having fun. >> I think it's lowering the stakes and >> Yeah. >> And just >> play play like >> Yeah. Just play.

>> Yeah. Yeah. like to not to to both think about why you're doing something, but also don't worry too much about justifying it. Cuz I think fun for me can be uh dangerous because it will it can also just be me staying in the comfort zone, which is fun. >> It's true. >> Doing the same thing over and over again can be quite fun, but that's not all I want. >> Yeah. >> I definitely want to like evolve. >> Mhm. >> And evolving challen challenging myself isn't really fun. The outcome is fun. The process is fun.

>> Yeah, probably. Probably. But that So that's something I'm almost I'm almost like um deliberately not having fun. I'm actually giving myself things that are hard to do in order to try to get better. Um so that's more of a, you know, not to put it too fine pointed, but it's like almost avoiding fun and trying to trying to cut up my time a bit. So it's like I'll do something that's just enjoyable. Right now I'm working on some like gaming stuff. Zero stakes. Just I decided that I it's okay for me to do that after all the shit that I finished last year. And then I need to you know once I've done that I kind of probably want to start working on something for a competition or >> maybe commissions.

>> Well that I mean there's two interesting things there. The first thing is I think

we said or it's obvious. Yeah. You have to have these breaks, don't you? Your mental break where you just blah blah blah and play games, paint, whatever. it's just fun and relaxing because it's the opposite of what you just did. >> Um, >> but in my mind, as soon as you start labeling competition or uh work or something, immediately it's and I don't know, but I think it strips out the fun because at that point that has to be perfect because you don't enter a competition point by putting in. >> That's a very good point. Competition painting should actually be really fun. Yeah.

>> Whereas task zero stakes, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. There's pressure on yourself if you enter a comp. There has to be. Otherwise, you wouldn't enter the competition, right? >> Yeah. >> But on the flip side, you learn a lot from putting that pressure on yourself. Especially if you say, "Okay, I want to." So, yeah. I mean, >> right now >> Yeah. >> If your if your if your pressure leads you to what do you do always, then it doesn't. >> My um Yeah. My my journey right now is to I mean the irony is I'm going back to the UK again for another 5 days or something. So I won't have time to paint so I'm forever putting it off. But um yeah the journey is to to paint with freess as Alfonso says fuck smoothness right and that is what his theory is. And I'm I'm yeah I'm it's not about if you if you want to spend hours >> contentious.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. If you want to do a model perfectly, but that's if you're free doing it and you're finding it fun and it's not a stress, then that is still fuck smoothness, right? >> I believe anyway, it's it's it's admittedly it goes against exactly what the the saying spells out out loud. But what I I I Anyway, that was a nice hour and a half conversation. I think that that segment was only 50 minutes. I want to get painting, but I can't go and go and buy some fish. So, boys, are you ready for I don't have a jingle?

>> For what? >> Faction Fortunes. >> M Family. >> Yeah, but it's >> Did you say you have a jingle or you don't? >> I do not. >> Oh, sorry. Yeah, I was waiting. >> The actual The actual music for Family Field is so annoying. We'll we'll steal it. We'll put it into this. >> But no, it's faction faction feud. >> Yeah. >> Or faction fortunes. >> It's not family. It's faction. Excellent. >> Warhammer faction, right? Hold on. I'm

going to get some water. Okay. >> Are you pausing? >> Uh, I could pause, I guess. Right. Um, are you ready? Right. So, we are going to do this. Okay. You We are going to alternate who goes first each week. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Um, and someone can go first cuz then they maximize.

>> Um, I thought about implementing some sort of penalty that if you go first, you you at the end of it, you get one less answer. So, let's say after you have three votes each and then whoever went second has four um to but I don't think any of these answers looking at them um are you going to get the top answers? So, I honestly cuz they're a little bit Let's just >> Did you actually ask people? >> Yeah. And not just painters. >> Okay.

>> So, people from from the hobby? >> Well, actual humans. >> Yeah. Monty. Oh shit. Yeah, >> you prepared a lot in Monte. >> I had a lot of time, baby. Um, so we don't have a jingle. We're going to try and keep the score. Do you want to do a winner from the show or do you want to do your total score over time? I think just have a winner from each show. >> Yeah, winner from each show is good. >> Okay. And we're starting off. Okay. So, boom. Uh, who's the youngest? They can go first.

>> Oh, no. >> I am. >> Son of a bitch. So, we asked 100 people painters um the best way to make your model stand out. >> Uh-huh. >> Now, I can That's it. And you've got to say what what one of them. So, I gave you contrast. >> Okay. See, this is why maybe you should get So, that's the top answer. >> That is the top answer. >> Yeah. Uh and that's why I'm like maybe we should do the We'll see. So that that is 27 people said contrast.

>> Okay, Martin. >> Oh, I go now. Fuck me. Um, if it's not contrast, um, a cool base. >> Uh, yeah, that is number three on the list. >> Okay. Mhm. >> Uh but it's it's I I p so I did collect these. Okay. Not everyone was given but interesting base composition is that that's what that answer is. Okay. And that has >> 18 points.

>> Not bad. Not bad. So you've got number two, three, and number two, four, and five are the only ones that really can get you any real points. now. Um Oh, no. >> So, uh saturation >> saturation. >> Yeah, it's like saturation, vivid colors, you know, whatever. >> You're cut you're touching on a few ones there. Uh >> a few the answers were really vague. >> Nah, it's I can't tell you. I I I could argue that it's not on the list.

Um >> really >> yeah saturation is not there but maybe if I tell you it we can deliberate this at the end >> with bright colors people >> yeah it's not on there you didn't get it oh no you've got bold colors >> that's yeah that's >> yeah that's f okay fine that's >> vibrancy bold colors >> that is number >> bright colors >> seven that's bottom of the list with four points. So you're on 31 points, Martin.

>> I'll say freehand. >> It is. It's number five. >> Oh, >> with nine points. And that is under freehand OSL. Um and like what's the word? Um >> Oh, so like gimmicky effects. Yeah, basically >> weird. Okay, >> so nine points that is. So you it's now 27 the second one. That's crazy. >> No. Yeah, I probably labeled it wrong, but yeah, >> is is NMM in those um gimmicky effects?

>> Number four. Yeah, >> four is NM. >> Martin, the only way you can draw this is by getting the second point. And I don't think you're going to get it. >> Um, the best way to make your model stand out. The first was contrast. The second is uh interesting base composition. >> Yeah, that was third. >> Yep. four was N&M and then um lighting effects OSL mood lighting.

>> I I'm trying to think how to phrase this differently, >> but but it it it No, no, no. It's it Yeah. Okay. It is a real thing. And some people don't get it, but some people do. >> Is it like atmosphere or would that also go into composition? atmosphere was probably is that your answer narrative/ atmosphere >> that is number six >> okay yes so that's >> I'm amazed that you all managed to get one so the second point number six six points so you you got 33 I now got 45 is a focal point >> on a model >> a clear >> so the second best thing >> the second best thing is focal point >> um which is fair and and you do see some pieces which are are wishy-washy. Um >> yeah.

>> Yeah. >> I'm wondering how enjoyable this is for the listeners, but I guess they're thinking up as well, right? There's some suspense, I think, from >> Let us know, please. Any of you, Paul or LG, basically the only listeners we have. Um the next question. So, we've got we've got three more questions. >> It's I think maybe we could do we could split this over and do two or three. Maybe three an episode, right? So >> yeah, we can we can do two and then two two on the next episode. >> What is the hardest concept to truly learn?

>> You start now. >> Mine exactly. >> Okay. >> Concept painting concept. >> Uh light. So Martin are now one nil like lighting. >> Yeah, lighting. >> That is a got you got a lot. You got some good amount of points. It's number two on the list. >> Fucking number two. Okay. >> But it's 26 points which is a very high scoring one.

>> Shit. >> Is lighting the same as Voltry? Because in my mind they are the same but maybe they are not >> understanding light and shadows. So yes it is volumes basically. >> Okay. So yeah volumes is not is out of the question. >> Oh the second one. Okay. >> Um what was the difficulty? >> Hardest concept. >> Yeah. Hardest concept color theory.

Oh, and he's pipped you there again, mate. That's number one, >> motherfucker. That's so happy. That's 31 points. So, it's only five more points. Now, it's going to get a little bit more difficult. >> I think there's one slightly one that's like you could get it, but the rest are So, yes, we we've got one and two are gone. We're looking for three, four, five, six, or seven. >> Um, >> I'll say concepts. Uh, I'll say uh skin tones. You guys, you guys are not bad. That's number four on the list.

>> Oh, >> and that is 11 points. >> So, Martin, you are now in the lead with 37 points. I now has 31. >> Um, >> there's only one big juicy one left. >> Composition. >> Maybe these are too easy. Yeah, composition is number three. It is number three. Fuck you. >> 17 points. Uh 848. Martin, you need >> You've lost actually.

>> Yeah, I've lost. I've lost this round and the previous round and we're doing >> three. >> So, um do you want to guess the You've got one guess each. Do you want to just see or do you want me to reel out the rest of the answers? >> Uh let's guess. >> Freehand. I think freehand is one. >> Freehanded. Yeah, that is exactly that. It's number six on the list. >> Yeah. Um, >> and that's the last one. >> Two more. But yeah, you've got the last vote. >> Uh, difficult to master. >> I mean, I guess color choices or or something like this, but they probably fall into the >> Yeah, color theory.

>> What else? Technique like brush control. It's not on there. >> Okay, >> that's quite funny. When to stop. So, overworking pieces was number five with eight people. And then the seventh one, which I laughed at, photographing your work. Um, but I was like, how can that be harder than >> Anyway, right, two nil are now. Okay, well, we're going to do four, Martin, and you can draw if you win the next two. So, what is your favorite paintbrush brand?

Now you go first. >> Ah, right. Uh, I guess Windsor and Newton. >> That is on the list. And that is number two. >> It's not number one. >> Oh, it's not number one. >> Windsor. Oh, yeah. Right. So, that is 21 points. >> So, I'm only interested in the number one here. I I have no fucking idea cuz we did paints and that completely threw me off. The first was right though, wasn't it? >> The one in first place. No. Okay. >> No.

Um, Paint Brands. Uh, no. Wait. Paintbrush brands. >> Paintbrush. This >> uh I'll say uh uh Artist Opus. I don't think it's number one, but I'll say Artist Opus. >> It is number one. It is. Wow. Jesus. I would never not said that. >> 29 people. >> Happy birthday. >> Yeah. Marketing is king. >> Yeah. >> Windsor and Newton literally has no marketing. It's just word of mouth.

>> No. >> And they refuse to sponsor anyone which is really funny. Integrity. >> Yeah. They don't need it. I guess English, right? Are now you Oh, yeah. I did that. Right. You are eight points behind Martin. Let's say Dainci. >> It's on the list. Seven points. Number six. >> Number six. >> Yep. >> I don't think that anyone in Monte said fucking Citadel. I'll say Raphael.

>> You are smart. That is number three. >> Raphael is three. Yeah. >> Martins. I was I was I was like, "Who the fuck uses Raphael?" >> I used to I used to exclusively use Raphael for a short while, but I feel like they're more popular than Da Vinci, but I don't know why. >> Yeah. Well, >> Rosemary and Co. It's number four. >> Yeah. >> Broken Toad on the list at number five. That annoyed me cuz they don't even make them anymore. >> Broken Toad, but yeah, >> but people fucking love the brush apparently. So, they want them bringing it back, but they they never will, right? So, it's what? It's 2-1. It's a cliffhanger. Well, it's not really. It's for the draw mine. You are first though,

M. So, you do have the advantage. What is the most important skill in miniature painting? Now, I realize that I've just done the same one twice. Yes, it's the same. I've just copy pasted it with a different header. Let me scroll. >> Most important skill. >> Forget that. What's the biggest mistake painters make? >> Oh. Uh. Oh, fuck. That's weird. >> Shit. That's >> a tricky question. The biggest mistake >> uh the biggest mistake painters make is uh Oh, fuck. I've got some good options here. I just want to choose. Um, I'm surprised that's not uh not um rushing. Maybe going too quickly, rushing, not being patient.

I'm just sort of That's not even on the list. No, it is. I'm just trying to work out. It could possibly be two, but it it's it's oddly specific. It's It's Yeah. Okay. I wrote rushing the final stages, but rushing it is the same thing, right? >> Final stages. Oh, okay. >> It's just the way. Yeah. So, but that's number three. >> Oh, that's number three. >> 17 points, right? The top one has 29 points.

>> Um, what was the question again? >> The biggest mistake painters make. >> Biggest mistake. The biggest mistake is focusing on smoothness. >> Interesting. >> I mean, I would say focusing on the wrong things, but focusing on something. >> It's not on the list. >> Not on the list. >> That's the first time we've had it not on the list, >> I think. So, I'm I was just trying to Nah, it's not in the list. Now, Martin, you've got you've got you've got a chance here to draw this this round. 17 points.

Um, ignoring. Fuck. I don't know. Uh, overwork. Overworking. >> I read it. Hold on. >> Yeah, it's number five. with nine points. >> Nine points. Yeah, >> I removed the the >> Go get it now.

>> Oh, now. So now you are on 28 points. The the top answer is 29 points. >> What's the biggest mistake people do? I mean I I'm trying to answer question like I think people will answer instead of answering saying how I think. >> I know what it is. Couldn't I just got it? Jesus. I'm excited. >> And my monte even. >> So what's the biggest mistake people do?

>> It's not themselves though, I guess. Is it? Or maybe maybe they think about themselves. >> What do you mean? >> Like they're talking about what do painters >> everyone in the hobby. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like what they doing. Uh, it's a difficult one. It's probably Yeah, it's by far the most difficult to do. Uh, and the stakes are so high.

>> This is to win or draw, I guess, isn't it? >> Yeah, I guess. I guess not being original. Uh, you could possibly put that under that. I don't know if it's the same. I feel like whispering to you, Martin, and being like, is that all right? Um, not being original.

I don't >> Yeah, originality. >> I don't think that comes under it. We can talk about it afterwards, but I don't think so. We can argue if Martin doesn't get that as the answer, we can argue it afterwards. All right. >> All right. So, I I I think uh I think it's looking too much at other people at other people's work, focusing too much on other people like on Instagram and shit. >> That is on the list kind of. That's >> not even one. >> It's eight. And how is it formulated? >> Copying stars without understanding.

copying styles without copying styles. >> I wasn't even thinking about I wasn't even copying thinking about copying styles. I just I I I assumed that people would say stop looking at other people's work instead of like your basically stop going on social kind of thing. >> Yeah. Instagram would be on the top of the list for me. >> Yeah, they didn't. >> I get you. Okay, so 28 points still then. Fine. You got one guest left on now. It's got me. So for me the biggest mistake people do um Oh, fuck me. That's difficult.

>> It's harder than Grotbusters. I mean it's all it's also difficult to to to reduce it to a phrase. That's what >> that's what's more difficult. You know >> what people would say >> a couple of words. >> Mhm. All right. Uh I mean I I'm going to say something for me for myself, but like probably there's no or >> Yeah, I'll say something else. Um not not having a focal point.

It's kind of number two. Oh, fuck. Both your answers are so close to one and two, but so not. Okay. Right. >> It's the last answer. There's no more. Okay. Number one was lack of contrast. >> Really? Okay. That's what people think the biggest mistake. >> Yeah. That's >> That's not even That's not even true. >> Right. No, exactly. That's not even true. Okay. It's a lack of contrast, but that could be interpreted what you just said, >> no focal point, really tentatively.

>> Like, >> I mean, they're very different things, but we can basically >> I don't think that's true. I don't think I like, not that I don't want to give it now, but I don't think that's the same thing. >> I I I Yeah, I also don't think it is, but I also think you could argue that if you don't have a focal point, >> you won't have contrast. It's hard to have focal point without contrast. But >> but I don't think that's what people say. >> Yeah. But at the same time I mean it's true that focus is made by contrast but if they if they answered something so simple surely they didn't think it like >> that's this point. You know what I mean?

>> Yeah. That and that's why I'm saying you can argue against it right now. Your second answer what was it? Um, >> I was talking about not looking at social media and stuff. >> No, no, sorry. Um, I'll now second answer that I said maybe it could be this one. >> The lack of focal point. >> No, it was uh >> that was the third answer, >> wasn't it? But >> didn't you just say >> right before what did I say? >> Well, let's just say it's a drawback. >> Copying. Looking at what was it? Originality. Originality. Yeah. Not planning the color scheme was the second answer.

>> Not planning the color scheme. >> Painting before you have a set plan. >> Yeah. Who are these people? So contrast and not planning the color scheme. >> As I said, I've paraphrased these. Right. So someone would say color scheme and then I've just gone. Right. So if you said color scheme, that's fine. I've just written this sentence down. poor poor, you know, um, no harmony, not planning the color scheme. >> This is what I'm saying, right? So, so you could say that was your second answer. You could possibly argue for it.

>> It's fine if now is today's winner. >> No, it's a draw. So, that's very uneventful. It's a draw. Two all. You won that round, Martin, because you got two answers. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Did you Did you not >> I mean, Martin, if you don't want the draw, mate, you can give it to her now. >> No, no, it's a draw then. Shit. >> Good. I don't mind this segment. I'm looking forward to doing more. It's going to be very hard to ask more questions, though. Um, >> I hope our listeners enjoy, especially those that don't have video, just enjoy these long silent uh pauses where we think about definitely like a couple of minutes of just nothing at all.

I really hope they're also thinking it's like when you watch a TV show and and you're screaming at the TV. It's behind the fucking door or don't go there. That's what I'm hoping. I'm hoping it's like a horror film. >> It's a train wreck. >> Whole Family Feud thing is uh is an actual TV show. That's where we're getting this uh >> from TV. Then >> fucking go fuck yourself. I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to do a survey. The the trouble is we're going to have six answers. So on that fact, we might have to do it percentage based. Okay.

And those that percentage equals >> You can do a survey. You can do a survey in in on in YouTube and YouTube it reaches a lot more people. >> Oh wow. Because we have the subscribers, right? Okay. Yeah, I'll try that. If you do it on Discord, we will be able to see the answers, which is >> got one. We've got one more from Monty that we can do, right? So, >> I've got a week to do it. Maybe two cuz we might not be able to record next week. I'm not sure. Um, okay, fine.

Good. Two all now. Grotbusters. Hold on. Fucking hell. >> Is it late now? >> I think. >> All right. I thought you just swore because it was so late. Um, oh shit. Did I not >> Should I give you the answers for the last one? >> Ah, yes. Yes. >> Even if it was a bastard dipl. >> Okay. Right. Do the questions. >> Um, how much and what type of cheese did Jamie buy instead of groceries?

>> Martin, you would not get this. >> Did we put these questions on Discord on now? I don't think we did. We didn't, but I I will do now because we are not going to release this today, right? >> Right. My kid's knocking on my door. Shit. Um, >> we've released the episode literally yesterday. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Should we just call the Should we just stop the episode? When did I tell my wife I'd be done? Hold on. I think this is good TV. 40 minutes an hour ago. We We spoke a lot longer. If you want if you want to finish the episode in another time.

>> Okay. >> But if you want >> Oh, okay. Hold on. Well, you are professional. Okay, we're in. >> So, yeah. How much what type of cheese did take me buy instead of groceries? >> Better. It's a good guess. And how much how much? >> Uh, 1 kilo. was Jamie. You can lock in your answer as well, even if you're privileged. >> It was good cheese.

>> And I thought it was 2 kilos. I think it's two. Oh, no. It was five, wasn't it? >> It was 4 kilos kilos of GA. >> It was on offer, mate. It was on offer. And I I was four kilos. 4 kilos of good instead of groceries when Tina asked him to go grocery shopping. >> 4 kilos counts as groceries. I don't see the outrageous. Uh, it was 25% off. >> I might go and get some tonight. >> Um, yeah. How was the Pinterest name of the guy who banged Jamie's ex-girlfriend?

This is Yeah. very difficult to deep Martin. Deep lore. I have no idea. >> Pie face was his name. Pie face. >> Pie face. >> Literally a pie for a face. Yeah. >> What creature is named in a robot voice or perhaps became a robot in a jingle? >> Now that man, you should know >> that. You should know. >> I'm getting it ready. >> Robot voice.

>> To be fair, we might not. No, I think we did it. We We We Oh, fuck. We haven't done fast as a race car in ages. You ready, Martin? >> Boo boo. >> Yeah. >> A snail. >> A snail. Yeah. We don't know if the the snail is a robot. We don't know if we don't. But she did that. >> Definitely. It's probably my favorite jingle of all of the jingles. That's fair. She didn't stop himself with a scrapbook.

>> You know that one. Mine. >> No. Probably his leg. >> No. My forearm. My arm would be the answer. >> Oh. >> Yep. Just like clean. There was that much left. >> Ah. >> Like it was literally like it was in there. It was in me like that far. And the handle was like this little bit. >> How did you do that? Did you just like >> Yeah. I Tina was like, "Do you want to have sex?" And I was like, "Yes, I do." So, I ran into my room and I had a magnetic scalpel at that point and I had my um you know how you have the knife stands that are magnetic? I had it on the side of my um tool thing next to my painting so that I could just grab tools off, right? And I'd always slap the but I'd always put the knife the other way so you couldn't walk into it. The light was off because obviously it was romantic. I ran from the bedroom into the um hobby room and the to get the baby monitor because the baby doesn't wake up. But the baby monitor is was tucked in around the corner. So I grabbed to grab the corner and then I just heard like a twanging sound and I was like

and I didn't turn the light on and I went in. I said, "Tina, I'm going to show you something now and please don't scream." And I turned the light on and then I saw the damage cuz it was it was a literally it was a fresh blade that I'd put on like half an hour earlier. >> Yeah. >> So I didn't even feel it go in. I just heard the sound and then she screamed and then we had to go to a hospital. It was like 1:00 a.m. or something. So yeah, >> I didn't remember the thing that it was just because >> Well, we had sex obviously first >> and then and then we went to the hospital naturally. She didn't even want me driving. I was like, "Tina, it's fine. I'm a man." I said, "I cut myself for fun." Um, and then I asked the doctor while she was listening. I said, "Could I have taken this out at home?" And he was like, "Yeah." And I said, "And then just super glue." And he goes, "Yeah, but you probably should have come in." I was like, "Pussy." So, yeah.

>> Did you ask him about your Did you ask him whether you should have had sex? Like, should I just have had sex? >> Should Should we Could we have had sex with this in my arm? >> Yeah. Um, what's Tim is catch catchphrase or moto? >> Everything will work out. >> Yes, exactly. >> That's the podcast, the catchphrase. >> Exactly. And what music blasted while recording an episode on Jimmy's computer? >> N&M.

>> N&M. >> Yes. >> Now, credit to Martin. He's got every single one that was in this season. >> Yes. Well, >> exactly. >> You said the the stabbing thing in your arm as well in the season. >> Oh, did I? >> It was. >> Mhm. >> Fair enough. >> I never heard this anecdote. I might not have given the whole anecdotal story behind. >> Yeah, it was not. It was without context, but he just >> easy to forget, isn't it? >> So, >> I've got a test for everyone. Okay. Fuck. I wanted to I wanted to talk about mid show. The odds of people still listening at this point are probably 2%.

But I want to do a test that everybody who listens to it. Thanks for sticking around, Mike. >> Yeah. Comment, please, and like on YouTube. So, I want a comment and a like and I want to see if the algorithm does anything different. I'm really curious cuz everyone talks about this. Please like and comment cuz I'm a twat, right? I'm going to start saying that in the show now and I I want to see if there's a tangible difference. It's not like you're saying it like just like and comment. We are actually doing an experiment. So you like and comment. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's important so that I can actually see if it makes any tangible difference and if it does I will rail on it. It will be the main focal point of every episode like fully like >> you can't say something for them to comment. So you know >> that's fucking boring mate.

>> Right. See you later. >> I want I wanted an army of some of comments like I don't know. >> Yeah, Jamie's a dickhead. Your son is shit. >> Yeah, something funny. Discord.