Are Painting Competitions hurting the community?

Mini Matters, a miniature painting podcast. >> Welcome, welcome. Season fucking 4, episode two. Now, you will notice I have put effort into this episode in I did make the boys wait and sit there while I did this, but we have a new layout, and I dare say it's infinitely better. >> You guys can't see, so thanks for nodding. Um, you'll you'll see it when we come out. I'm I'm happy with it, to be honest. It looks It looks very similar to >> I'm sensing it. I'm I I I can't see it, but I know it.

>> Yeah, we know your happiness. So, we are trusting that. >> Oh, I'm I'm I'm I'm hard to be honest with you. I'm figuratively and literally hard. >> So, you can you can make what you want from that. Hold on though. I am going to pause. Right. There we are. Now, no one knows when you're talking. The law of We have moved from Discord to Google Meets. Now, I don't want to I don't want to like promote corporations or anything like that, but really Discord is probably a corporation at some level, right?

>> All of them are. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Lots of people use it. That means it's evil. >> Yes. Yeah. I mean, that's we've had very very good uh discussions on AI. Not to go into it and we can go over what we've got in the episode all that, but there is now a dedicated channel in Discord to discuss. Yeah, I call it educating Jamie on why AI is bad. Um, because now some of the arguments they've made, I understand, but I'm still not sold on it being bad yet. And I'm not trying to open up the box here. Um but what what two things I've learned is when we say AI basically all of us just assume we're talking about chat GBT and like Gemini and right and >> and and sorry and most people when they say I AI these days they mean generative AI which is also slightly narrow >> and [snorts] and like I realized that when I I'm so pro AI it's like for medicine and weather patterns and all this kind of shit right and I also like codeex which is open AI's programming

thing. I have less strong opinions on on the open a sorry the chat GBT blah blah blah but we haven't I haven't got a conclusion. I haven't had a definitive thing that makes me hate it. Um and I'm hoping I will cuz then I'll be part of the normal people who who hate it cuz it is a very polarized subject. But um there's a whole channel. So if you've got an opinion on AI, join the channel. And the channel is called um >> AI is life for something very literal. Yeah, AI is life or death. That's what >> um so jump in there if you want to. But

why are we here? Episode two. And first of all, I have to issue a formal apology. I nearly said complaint to get good. Okay. We last episode I went quite hard. Now I've since realized they're not on board with my banter. Okay, so it was banter and it was me trying to reel them in to have some nice fun, a nice two-way relationship, but it went too far. I called them pieces of shit and dirt and disgusting. Now, I've not seen a reaction to that, so I don't know if they hated it. They might that might have actually been the point where they were like, "Do you know what? this guy, he he's quite funny, but I doubt it because um so I thought we had rapport, but we don't. We seem to to not care and want that. So [snorts] I take back the olive branch I tried to give them and it's dead. It's it's there is no longer any banter unless you guys want to reciprocate, in which case we'll come on your show and then you can come on our show and then we can have banter.

But uh yeah, it's I I I kind of feel like it's like a dog walks up to someone and pisses on them and then then the other dog's like, "Dude, why are you pissing on me?" And that's what's happened. Whereas one dog walks and pisses and the other guys go, "Are you pissing on me?" And he pisses on him back. That's what I wanted. I wanted I wanted exchanges of excrement, you know, like something really disgusting and a horrible relationship, [snorts] >> but no, it failed. I mean, we we we've talked about this before, like we I know you call some close friends like fuckface or dickhead >> pieces of shit. I call our now that almost every day in the discord. Yes.

Yes. >> Well, I I try to tone it down a bit, but I mean, you call our now a piece of shit. You love our now. I love our now. This is just how we talk. >> So, if the get good guys aren't on board with that, >> we'll be just abuse at that point. And and that's the issue. Yeah. Well, yeah, it's bor It's boring. if if they understand. I've just noticed actually Google Meets puts our heads perfectly in alignment, which means that I've broken Oh, we're getting better, I guess. Anyway, yes. So, it there's a there's a fine line with banter where >> Yeah.

>> is banter and then someone is just crying about it, right? And then it's bullying. It's a bit like if you're a sexy motherfucker, okay, you're like, let's say you're wearing a suit and you've got long hair, you've got a bit of Imagine. Yeah. >> And and you've got suave, right? That's not a real word. >> And you walk up to a chick >> is, but never mind. >> And she's hot. Okay. And you're like, "Oh, hey, sorry. I just saw you there and I can't help but see how beautiful you are. Would you come on a date with me or do you want to grab lunch or something?" Right? It's fine. That's not sexual harassment.

If a if if someone that the girl doesn't want so a disgusting sleas bag says the exact same things that's sexual harassment because she doesn't want that advance right that's what's happened here now now we are six minutes into the show and I don't want to I don't but that's it that's my formal apology out there and my stance on um yeah failed banter basically. >> Yeah. >> So >> that was well that was very well said. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very well explained, I guess.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's >> the the piecing and the experiments very like the picture. >> I I I wanted I wanted literally a shit food fight. I wanted us I wanted us slogging each other like big slogs like like they would come back with a rhetoric or a repont saying, you know, yeah, my wife sleeps with with with cows or donkeys or something, right? Like something really brutal. And then I'd be like, whoa. But everybody from the outside would be like, what the fuck are these two people saying? like we'd have back and forth, right? Everybody else is confused about it, but but we know like and that's all that matters. But yeah, we can't have that. It's done, right?

>> Um well, maybe we can. We'll see. We but I highly doubt that we'll get anything back if they even listen. >> Um so, what do we have on the show

today? We've got a cracking show planned. We have not planned at all. >> Yes, we have. We had like minutes of >> Oh, I wasn't paying attention. talking about this episode. >> That's more planning than we ever do normally, actually. >> Well, >> I feel extremely well prepared. >> We've also got >> I dressed we had the the [laughter] >> the feedback for um Faction Fude has been good now. People like Faction Fudes.

>> Yeah, people like that. >> We've got more of it. >> We've only got like one or two more from Monty, so we're going to be struggling soon. Um, >> you have to go into the street and ask people. >> No, no. I've got to do an online poll, haven't I? Like, I've got to do some anonymous poll. I'll send like you got those Google invite or whatever, but I'll fucking work it out somehow. Probably not. Um, but I've been I I have really been enjoying the Discord. I don't want to say we've got a Discord, but we do have a Discord, and it's very active now. And it's it's like there's a few channels that do better than the others, but I've enjoyed we've got now a mini community of six people.

>> Always six. Yeah. >> So all our listeners basically, but there's nine if you include us three, which is it's a boiling pot of of of Oh, so [sighs] I mean I haven't given anybody any information what the show is, but look, listen to this. Okay, last episode I said please like and leave a comment on the YouTube video. Okay, >> I specifically called it out. Now, >> people did. I was surpris I forgot I did and then I went and looked. I was like, why the fuck are there 10 comments? Okay, not Ben comments. Um, and it made no difference, right?

So, >> so the the calling was fail. >> We've got likes and subscribe. No, sorry, not subscribe. So, apparently somebody's written in the comment that YouTube specifically listens out for like and subscribe. and not what I said. And then when they hear those words, YouTube are like, "Right, they're playing the bullshit game of get now." I don't know how I feel about that. >> I see. I I >> So what the the phrase like and subscribe is better for you. I feel like that's >> that's what they're saying.

>> So we have to say the the the specific word like and subscribe. >> Well, so this is what they were saying on their phone. when somebody on their when they're watching a video says like and subscribe, you get an actual popup on your phone. >> So now that we say >> Yeah, we five times. Does it Does it reckon you say it too many and they're like, "These guys are fucking fishing. >> Let's fucking bump them right down." >> But they literally can't >> on top of everything else that we do, right? In terms of social content, we sometimes >> Well, I mean, are on the side of bullshit. We literally couldn't get worse with our with our like the content, the everything we do. It's dog shit. Do you know what I mean?

>> No. Well, I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful. I think we'll get there. I think it'll get worse. >> There's a saying, you can't polish an actual piece of bullshit. And that's what we You can't polish a bullshit. >> A physical piece of shit. >> Like um a cow. You know how you have a cow and then you've got a bull and then you've got a >> bullsh and that bull produces feces. I get it. >> If you freeze it, you can polish it. >> Exactly. Thank you. See, Arnell's he's he's deep in the mix with polishing shit. That's what happens when you're a box art artist.

>> You have to think of ways to get polishing shit. That's a good analogy, M. That is a very good analogy. Not to say that Arnau has ever painted or thought that any of his pieces are shit. >> Never. Never. >> No. >> But he is polishing those. Oh my. So, let us bring us to the day. We have

>> We have news. >> Oh, I did have some news. Oh, it was the apologizing to get good. >> Oh, that's Yeah, good. >> Oh, no. We've got real news. GW fucking Corsair's and the But let's get >> because people say that this show is disorganized. Let's get to the crux of it. Okay, >> we've got the news. We've got Family Feud, which I need to collect while we're there. But yeah, I've got the votes. Um, we've got a meat of it, a real meat of it, which is >> competitions.

>> Competitions and why they're bullshit. Um, >> yeah, I guess. >> Yeah, it's clickbait. Clickbait is probably hopefully another key word that if you say not childbait, jailbait, >> you can say clickbait and it works as clickbait. That would be amazing. >> That's a life hack. Oh, you I mean to be honest, I'm still amazed at our new layout. This is amazing. Season 4 is the best. Um where and and that's it, right? Oh, and then we've got Dr. Love Brush. Um and maybe we could throw in a would you rather or some some other sprinkle happy shit. You did spring it on me, boys, that we wanted to do this episode.

So, um Oh, and of course, thought of the day. We're getting we're getting into some I'm There's some thought of the days there that I'm let Let's dial it back. Jamie's add. Why did I say we were going to do the news first? Ah, the actual news. The new releases, Corsair's and the other chaos shit I don't care about. Um, there were Corsair of two kinds >> and then there was other stuff >> and uh we uh we had quick remarks about mostly Aldor stuff. When we talk about hobby, it tends to lean towards Elar because one of us is very keen on >> Well, Space Elves, >> it's fading in a weird I mean, >> no, it's not.

>> Okay, it's not. Look, put it this way, okay? Imagine >> imagine you've got a beautiful wife and you love her. She's but she's beautiful, okay? And she's like she's like the best thing. Like, if you were to to to draw or say what you liked in women, this would be that woman, okay? Whatever that is for anybody. If you're gay, it's a bloke. if you're by there's somehow two um but you can only do one at a time unless this is what's happening now I'm seeing other people and I'm like >> oh shit >> that's that that thing there is doing something for me and I've never had that >> you know that's >> it's as a yeah as a quick just aside I I've thought about this a lot with people who have like factions in any of these games I know are now as a massive Blood Angels fan I'm a huge fan of like black templars but also Space Wolves, but also several other things. So, it's like I definitely don't have an army aside entirely aside from whether or not I game with them. It's just like I'm very much into all of this shit.

>> Even 40k versus AOS, like hypothetically, I'm way more interested in AOS on any given day. >> Oh, wow. >> Um cuz it's all good. There's potentially to be fair >> in my case it's also very different from Jamie because I do love Blood Angels and it's a 10 of love but then the rest is everything is a nine. So it's not like >> that's what's happening to me though. That's what I'm saying. You you've had your wife and you've loved her but from the very start you also knew that you had loads of other women and it was fine. It wasn't like you were upsetting.

So you you've kind of been kidding yourself that you only like Elar cuz I guess what I'm saying is you really do like everything else but you like Blood Angels that just that bit more. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, that makes sense. >> Whereas I' I' I'd not looked at other stuff deliberately. I I was like they don't exist. Right. When I walk down the street and there's a beautiful woman, when I was younger, still still married, just not so fat and like disgusting, >> I would look at them >> and sort of try and catch their attention or I'd chat people up, but I'd never act on it, right? But I would still actively like now I'm like, there's a woman. I'm like, I can't that's it. Like my my youth and that kind of oh, there's a Yeah. is slightly gone. Um, but actually it's gone from women now into models, >> so it's healthy. But yeah, my main point was that I don't look at other women when I'm on the street. Whereas that was what I had with Warhammer, sorry. I never looked cuz I didn't need to. I had everything I wanted.

>> Yeah. Yeah, of course. >> But now since that Warhammer trip, Warhammer World trip, I'm like, fuck, there's a lot of shit out. >> The warmer trip changed your life. We've talked about this. Would you say that there's anything specifically that was like >> is actually dragging your attention away from Elor? Is it all of the other things at the same time? Just the hobby in general? >> Well, this is why it's also related to the news. >> It's It was AOS sadly. I hate the law, but the models are good. >> There's something. It's like the scale is slightly smaller >> or something finer. I like >> it is I do feel like it's slightly more detailed or the detail is [clears throat] more >> it's finer. I don't know. I don't know what to how to say it, but yeah.

>> But the caveat to that is the new Corsair's and >> yeah, >> the chaos like Corsair have actually always been great sculpts. So, but that was Kill Team and I felt like maybe they had a little bit more wiggle room to do something with Kill Team or it was literally just that it's a new model, a new >> Corsair didn't exist, right? They're in law, but but they didn't have this prescribed bullshit that they have to um adhere to. And I think I don't know but all of the Corsair that I've seen so far I've thought that's they are cool >> like detail.

>> Do you like do you like all of the new shit then? >> Except the Viper. But we don't like the Viper. It's just fucking >> But the Viper is is actually a very a very good example because we complain that we don't have new things in in 40k, but then in my opinion, they improve something and then we don't like it. So are we the ones that are >> It's very 40k. So, the rebranded Phoenix Lords they did, right? Most of them and all all the aspect warriors, most of them were just 4K versions of a 480p or a 240p, >> right? It was it was upscaled.

>> Um, and some people complained. I I I actually I thought some of them were really good and liked them. I didn't like a Zerman's fish face. >> Um, >> yeah. But yeah, so I was hoping that the Viper would literally just be modernized, same as the old one and popped up a little bit, right? That's what I was kind of saying. But I bet you I probably I might have even complained. But but isn't it what happened? I mean, it's it's more or less the same. The the shape changed a little bit, of course. Thank you. >> Yeah, that's it. That's enough. >> No, weirdly. Weirdly, I kind of I think the sh the shape changed just enough to be like I wouldn't say a problem, but enough to make it that much of a difference. I actually also think that I I like the old ones so much and I like the little kind of tower shape to it.

And then uh >> now it's there's something missing. >> I can nail it. I've got if if you imagine a nail and then a fucking hammer. The problem is they've taken the um Harley Quinn uh buying transport and and that's it. >> So So it's no longer an Elder thing. It's it's a shared Harley Quinn thing. Whereas I'd always thought that Elder had their own vehicles. Harley Quins had their own vehicles. >> And I I dislike that they've done that. And I understand why they've done it because it's a lot faster to do it.

>> But it's a bit different from that, right? It's not the same. the the front is is 100% the same and probably the the back fins and obviously the the canopy where the bloke is sitting is that's all new. So all I wanted is sharper at the front. Anyway, we're getting specific into welder, but yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> For all you >> you're not you're not crazy about the Viper, but you did actually like all the Corsair stuff. Do you think I think Arnell was alluding to it. Do you think that you like it more because it's not really based on anything old and because that's just a brand new unexpected thing which is kind of why you like AOS as well?

>> I think they're just better sculpts is my listen. >> My my my point was the the only thing that you don't like is the Viper which is the one that that you like previously. So are we saying that everything that is updating in a in a in a slightly more a slightly heavier way we will not like or or we are up for some changes. I mean obviously I don't think it's it's general so it will be a case by case basis but is it because it's bad or is it because it's far away from what you imagine because I don't think it's a bad model at all.

>> Yeah. >> I reckon there's two answers to it. Right. If that Viper came out now and the Harley Quinn thing didn't exist I'd be able to accept it more easily for sure. Um, I really like the the Corsair vehicle that they've done, >> right? Because Corsair's could have a little bit more ties with Harley Quins and things. The issue it really is >> it's it's too far removed from the old Viper. >> So, yeah, basically that's it. I I had an envision and >> if I was the art director, I would have liked to kept it a lot more similar, but just modernized it because it makes me worried what they'll do to the Graph Tank, the Falcon.

I'm I'm like if they I don't know. >> Well, it's it's updated. So, yeah, I think they will keep it quite quite >> but yes, that's that's not to not to harp on about Elder because anybody who hates Elder will be very bored by this conversation. I think >> yeah, wrong podcast guys if you hate Elder. >> Yeah, we should have a after hours for the Patreon. God damn, this layout's nice. I feel like I could improve it a little bit, but yeah, for now. Um, so

what do you guys think of the Corsair stuff? The red Corsair stuff, I should say. The chaos stuff. >> I loved it. I think it's it's one of the first uh Space Marine kits that it feels like they are proper sculptures instead of just mashups of of pieces. >> They they look cohesive and, you know, they look proper sculptures. I I really like them. >> I really like them, too. I um I like I really like the interpretation of what a renegade space marine is. It didn't really occur to me until I saw them that there's actually a massive >> point. Yeah. So, there's there's essentially in the lore there's the idea that some space marines are chaos space marines. There's the legions that switched sides which arguably are more chaotic and whatever. And then there's um billions of like war bands that go to the to that side. But chaos is kind of like a narrow concept for anything that isn't Imperial. And then there's a

little bit of a gray area between where there's loads of space marines and even more so like Imperial Guard and Mechanica and stuff that just leaves the Imperium but doesn't fully join the Chaos cause or the >> they don't they don't align themselves with any god. They don't like a bad all that stuff. So they're so they're s sort of >> in between and I like that idea because the Imperium is quite strict. Uh so in the lore there's there's definitely I think a huge Yeah. like a I I can really see someone being disowned by the Imperium and going well I'm not a corn worshipper just because I I fucked up for the Imperium. What do I do now? And this is kind of a a cool answer to that.

It's space marines that desperately want to have a point in life, but they're not ready to join the Black Legion. >> So, it's more you just they don't like the Emperor and they think he's a twat, but they don't love Chaos >> potentially. Yeah, most likely. We can assume that they don't. They're not they're they're not welcome in the Imperium and most likely they've also been Yeah. pretty unhappy themselves. And then, yeah, exactly. They're not fully chaos. So, the idea of renegade space marines and which is yeah, it it the way uh they're designed I I really like that interpretation. There's not a lot of stars and demonic mouths and mutations and all the rest of it. It's just >> it's an in between. It's uh >> just kind of uh kind of rough funky.

>> What's that? >> They've never had models before then. >> No, really. No, they they used to there there's Hon Blackheart in the lore is is the leader of the Red Corsair. when they uh uh like they did like an heavy metal collection for the red courses in the past, but they just painted regular Chaos Space Marines in their colors, like the red and black colors. And now this is like a fully fleshed out range. And I I really appreciate this the design language that they chose to actually make them look like their own thing. >> And you can still have chaos base marines with the upgrade bits and everything. And that kind of does also make sense, I suppose, if there's there's going to be some red corsairs that are way more into chaos and some that are less. U so it's a cool take.

It's a nice way to like bridge the gap between chaos and loyalists and then these guys that are in between. There's more of a spectrum now. It gives me a lot of hope that like I said that GW are now through this making HD versions of just bland bullshit. We'll see what the next few releases are, but [snorts] like there's there's infinite to go back to Elder. Like um Exodites, you've got like so many versions of Exodites that you could do. Now they're doing the Corsair, which they've all have been in the law, right? You had Rangers, Corsair, blah blah blah. People who would negotiate with space marines, etc.

So maybe I mean if these red bloss haven't been like I wonder if the Corsair even going to get their own detachments and shit but they could be building like mini armies like the crew. Not not not >> I think I think definitely yeah like the there's been rumors of more Corsair stuff. I I guess this is probably it. Yeah, >> but I could definitely see that turning into its own army. And and I guess also with things like harlins >> bridging the gap between uh the craft world LAR and the dark eldar. >> Yeah, >> I guess this is just like another way to do that and you can kind of put together your own force and >> have again this more of a spectrum on that side of the lore.

>> Happy days. Long may it continue. >> Happy days. >> Oh no. And then apparently there were other things that no one gives a shit. It's cool. It's cool to see some >> some uh Yeah, it's cool. Like the custod stuff was nice, I guess. No, I like the new custod stuff. It's a bit bland. >> I liked it. I mean, they are a good update. The other ones were >> midgets and this one they look a lot more up to date. >> They're huge. I I did like the poses as well. They're quite imposing and like >> Yeah. statues and >> I I like to see them in real life how how they compare to a space marine a normal intercessor.

>> They are boring though, aren't they? You say the release is boring, but it's because there's only they've only got like five fucking units. So, >> yeah, they just >> Yeah. No, I I don't know. That's a bit unfair to It's just kind of the way they look and the difference between them. I also think uh custodies just shouldn't be an army. I think they should be >> really either. They should be part of the >> I don't know how to use them in the game, but yeah, they're they're just so like completely over the top powerful that >> I don't really ever see them being more than a couple at a time at any given point. But >> yeah, that's that doesn't matter. But this the the design of the new stuff is nice. I like that. I actually quite like the there was a Z character for AOS that I thought looked really cool, too. Yeah, a bit a bit not bland, but maybe expected like very little.

>> Oh, yeah. It's very predictable. Yeah, exactly. >> I mean, yeah. So happy. >> Did it not not a not a ping on your radar that scene? >> No, I literally elder was I watched the Elder part and I turned it off. Don't care about anything else. M >> I mean, don't get me wrong, earlier, like 20 minutes ago, I just said I changed and I have, but it doesn't mean I'm fishing out for other shit. Do you know what I mean? It's not like to to use the analogy of being married. I'm not going on, you know, Grinder and dating apps. [laughter] I'm happy to walk along the street and I see someone and go, "Fuck, that's nice." But yeah, I don't want to I don't want to search for it. Oh my gosh.

>> I [snorts] like that you said Grinder. >> Um, >> yeah. >> Can you stop one second? >> Of course. Of course I can. We can now jump I believe into we've we've finished the little um the meat of it which is semi-related or do you quickly want a

quick No, no, no. Let's do let's do the meat bit. Let's fucking >> So this is this is going to be nice. This is this is going to be cathartic and and um interesting now. Oh no, this isn't the heavy metal one. Oh shit. This is the competition one. >> You you really wanted to >> I thought we were going to jump in. We'll save the heavy metal one for the next episode. Right. the competition are now this is or or Martin I'm not sure whose piece this is >> mostly are now but we we've both got some thoughts about this and yeah you want to see >> I think we haven't talked uh about competitions much in this this podcast we talked about some specific competitions >> and especially around the last few months when we were competing a lot of things to say about that but this is more of a general >> philosophical point >> in in our hobby It's it's very common to have competitions and everyone is uh not obsessed but we all are >> they well they pay to compete right

>> that seems to be a >> yeah most people are >> and I always because I I I never understood competitions much I'm not a competitive person I always tried to understand why uh do they exist And we came to the this this we talked about when we were coming back from GD and I think because this is my thought process, right? You you go to a competition and then you have some random judges that you don't know.

Would you appreciate that that trophy if you don't know the judges? You shouldn't, right? because [clears throat] you don't know if they are just you you don't know who are who is giving you the do you don't know what are their credentials you don't know if they know what they're seeing so they are not important to you so why is it why does it matter that they are giving you an an award and I think there's a very simple answer to that it which is why we go to competitions and is because we want someone to tell other people that we are good >> so what we want is that people trust this this someone this judge to say that we are good >> it's the only thing that matters about competitions is is is what we what we take from it if you know what I mean >> I remember the conversation cuz it I think we got there by saying rough roughly um in all other sports almost or competitive things you have a clear way

to win aka you're a tennis player you beat that player because you're better than them. You have a football team, right? There's 11 other pe or there's 10 other people, but you're part of the team. You work together, you can you beat them, right? >> Yeah. >> Um this is one of the few um like competitive scenes where it's opinion based. >> Yeah. >> Um and that's where the whole conversation I think went from. We were like trying to work out the the what's the reason and and and I was like, "Yeah, you still win though, right?" I was like at the end of the day Martin was up there with gold and there were all the people who went who who didn't get gold so Martin won that and then we were trying to work out that was just an example Martin rather than your piece didn't deserve to win gold >> then we were trying to work out like >> you know whereas so so it is it is a very it's it's in its own thing this competitive >> but here's but here's another going off of exactly what you just said now the thing that's always so weird to me and on now you were saying this too like there's all these other competitive

fields sports like you said you know even if you're like a a skater and you perform in a competition and you do a bunch of tricks and then the judges are like damn that's really good and they give you awards you're not specifically competing against other people in that one-on-one sense even then most people will probably say like yeah that's uh that's clearly very impressive well done but what's what what I think is even more relevant is look at every other expression of like art. Not to go back to that whole thing of whether this is art, but let's say it is.

>> I've never met anyone where they were like, "Yeah, I started painting watercolors. I'm really into it. I think I'm doing really well." And I go, "Oh, are you competing?" >> Yeah. >> You ever go do you ever go to like a watercolor convention and you bring your paintings and you compete? Do you do that? >> Or someone's into >> That would be fun. >> Crocheting and it's like, "Yeah, but do you win though? Like you're really good at crocheting, but like do you have awards? are you the best? >> Like that's completely irrelevant in all of those creative fields. And we even if we skip art, just call it a hobby. Like I don't know people who compete as part of their hobby if their hobby is this kind of um this this creative sitting at a desk with a paintbrush or a scalper or something. That's just not what people do. But we do >> and we take it for granted, >> which is what our was saying. Like most most people we know in this hobby will have a relationship to painting or to competitions. They'll either do it or definitely choose not to do it.

>> And this this creates a new thing which is I think the last key of of everything and it ties it together which is levels. We are obsessed with levels of painting, right? And you never go to a museum and see different canvases and you say this has better level than this one. It's it's fucking nuts to even think about this. >> But you know, you like it or you don't like it. We we don't we don't say this brushstroke has more level than this one. This is it's fucking insane to think about this.

>> Yeah. Yeah, it is completely. And we're very happy to Sorry. Go ahead. But we we created this sort of um tier based um world or or hobby and we are so desperate to be on the top part of the level >> that we need competitions for for some guys to say the to the other guys that we are on the top level. So it's fucked up as as a whole. Like we if you think about it >> and that brings me to the other thing you were saying which I think is so interesting is and you said it really well that we want other people we want judges to tell not us that we've done well but to tell everyone else that we've done well.

>> Yeah. >> And I think it's really it's really useful if you're competing and if you're not if you if you're into this. I hear people all the time say like well you know one day I want to win a gold golden demon. I think yeah me too. shit. Um, I think it's really useful to actually try to ask yourself as honestly as possible what it is you want. Like what do you want out of this? Cuz you probably want validation and appreciation uh and and affirmation, I guess. But so, you know, you want validation that you've done a good job. And how are you going to get that? How is that actually going to work? How how can you get it from? Who do you want it? And what's that going to do to you? I've found in the last few years of competing because at the same time as all this competing, I've gotten to know more people and people that I really look up to and think are really good painters. And I've I've been able to really notice in myself the difference between what a judge thinks and what that person thinks and how those conversations go. M >> I mean just the two of you at Golden

Demon, I I can tell you really specifically how what a difference it was to have you two look at my piece and then winning something for it. >> It's not necessarily just better or worse, but I have to kind of be honest with myself about like why does one matter over the other and what's the difference between them? >> No one if I spoke to no one, sorry, just to say if I spoke to no one about my golden demon piece, I went there by myself. I didn't speak to anyone about it. Uh maybe you know the handshake from the other competitors and then I just go home with my gold. I I can't see how I would be happy with that.

>> Yeah. And a lot of people will answer this question saying that is a checkpoint or or is a is a way to see what what I'm uh in what level I'm at. Right. But but again it's like why do you care what level are you at? >> Why do you care? Yeah. Why? Why would I mean you you just paint and do >> your hobby, right? And try to be better, of course, >> and and you can um go to a professional and ask advice and everything. >> So, yeah. So, I've got a lot of I've written

down obviously now cuz >> the first the first thing is um why I would like to win a Golden Demon. why you said it, Martin. Um, and I think it's because I want to have people remember my piece is why I would want to win it. >> It's not for me being the best at that event. It's to influence other people. So, all my memories of Golden Demon when I was young, the pieces just are magical, semi-agical to me. And obviously, I was only exposed to it cuz they won. Like there's loads of there's like there's quite a few I have in my head from like 97 to 99 that I really liked.

>> But you you are personifying this this feeling and or giving it to the piece. But the piece is is yours. So at the end of the day is the same. So you you want that so you want that fame for yourself, not for the piece, if you know what I mean. The piece don't give a shit because it's a piece of >> plastic. I get I hear the words. >> I do get what you're saying, Jamie. I have to completely agree actually or or I completely understand. >> I mean, don't get me wrong. I I I understand completely wanting to be memorable, but you want it to be me memorable for yourself. If not, it doesn't make any sense.

>> This is the providence of something painted for Golden Demon. Like, it gives it a kind of a life and you especially looking back at like the old pamphlets we have from Golden Demon in the early 2000s, like that's It's different. >> There's some credibility to it. >> This goes back to the whole thing on when we had the discussion about having kids is because you want to have kids or I can't remember the exact thing. Right. Like >> Yeah. Yeah. Having having kids is selfish. >> Yeah. And I was like it took we had a we had like a two-hour conversation on this where the concept blew my mind cuz I'd never heard those words. I can't remember where we got with that. But I actually think that this isn't what is for me. It's not that I want it for myself. The not the kids the demon. I think I want Well, yes. Okay. But not the way you're framing it. I want to be part of that community. I want to be I want to be in there and and contributing and just feeling absorbing it and then having that for for the rest of my life as it were. So So yes, I agree with the statement, but it it's not like it doesn't feel like it's selfish. I want to contribute.

I don't think it's selfish, but what does it what what does it differentiates a golden demon piece from a piece that is not Golden Demon that it's memorable as well? >> Because you can do a piece that it's very memorable. It's not golden demon related. >> Yeah, I do agree that. But Golden Demon gives you a platform. It's like you could sell something in a in a yard sale as they say in America or you could throw it on eBay. You're going to get more exposure on and that's how I feel like for Golden Demon. But yeah, I I agree. And don't get me wrong, this seems like I'm against it, but I'm not at all. Like I I competing all the demon and I would love to win a demon or a sword.

>> So the fact that this that this exists doesn't mean that that we should hate it. It's just a thing that exists. >> We are really just talking about how and why. It's it's not like either any any of us are going to stop competing in gold limit or thing. AI conversation. >> Yeah, I I do think this is a really interesting subject, but I but I have thought myself a lot about that that feeling of like why uh especially the times I didn't win anything. It's really important. I said this before that like the the good feeling you get from doing it has to be greater than the bad feeling you get from not winning something.

>> Um it it has to it just it has to be more fun. Maybe not the five minutes after the award ceremony, but like overall from from that project, if you spent six months painting something and you thought it was fucking miserable and then you didn't win an award for it, like you're maybe you didn't you shouldn't have done that. Maybe find another hobby or or just paint for yourself, whatever it is. But like if you still think, yeah, that was a really enjoyable thing I did. And maybe you pushed yourself, maybe it was a great challenge that you overcame and you had a deadline and you did it. that should you should like embrace that feeling no matter what you what kind of an award you get obviously easy for me to say because I did win something last time but for many years I didn't >> well and and it did weigh down on you slightly um so and I think that's a good it's it's that journey isn't it to come through so it leads on to I want to categorize um positives and negatives to shows then because um a part of me is like I agree and the whole journey that we've been on in the last month, two

months, cuz this show is only four fucking months old and maybe four and a half now, which is blow it's blowing my mind to be honest with you. Um, but the journey I think we've been on, I don't know about you, Martin, so much cuz you you're more experienced than I, but painting to paint and not painting to for anything else, right? That's what we're trying to get as a main like ethos. Um, [snorts] and so the things the notes I wrote down on on on positives for the show was um, this is this is a negative and a positive. Without shows, we wouldn't paint at all. Right. So, it's a negative and a positive. No, these are these are discussion points rather than opinions.

>> There is I think there's an argument for that, >> right? Lionel won't paint unless there's a show. We know that >> some people some people definitely would, but I I don't think that we would stop. You wouldn't. Lionel has so that I think there's people irrefutable. >> I know. I know. I know. But there's also people who probably would would >> don't even want to go to a show and they're painting >> would would or or now they hate shows. They think they are super toxic and and without them they would feel like the community is better. So that's and that's that's why I was saying it that one is on a both. I think I think there's pros and negatives. And I I I personally think if you're only painting for shows, it's the wrong way to do it.

But but that's, you know, for the first four years of my painting or I only painted for two years before I quit. But so for the first two years of my painting life, I was only painting for shows. And I couldn't I couldn't get that motivation to sit down and it wasn't like I was chasing a victory, but it was a massive driver for me. You know, do I want to play Diablo or do I want to paint? Oh, no. I want to do well in this competition and push myself. So, okay, I'm going to go and sit down, right? So, so that in my opinion is a a good plus point for a show. It gives you a focal point, something to focus on, focal point >> to be able to push past where you would normally be. And then it's a negative because of all the reasons we said in the last shows, which we won't link to, and you can just fucking listen to every show to realize it, but it's that um it's it's toxic or it's poisonous that you you're chasing this thing because then you're trying to get perfection.

You're not doing for fun. You're not going to learn. Sure, but everyone is different. So that is a But we can I don't know if you guys want to add anything before I go to my next point. >> Well, I was thinking about how some sports or well a lot of things are just built through competitions and you know we have professional football players that they their lives is to compete. So competing and being the reason of your of your existence in the hobby is not bad by itself. It can turn bad if you don't know how to separate what it means to win or to lose because or you know if you if you cannot relativize relativize the the meaning of those awards then it can turn very toxic >> and make you not enjoy because at the end of the day our our point is to for you to enjoy this hobby and if you enjoy it through competitions fine perfect

awesome But enjoy it. Not don't let don't let um uh awards win or lose >> the opinion, right? >> Yeah. >> I mean, >> absolutely. >> Go, man. Sorry. >> It's not necessarily a bad reason to paint for a competition. That's that's not a bad reason to paint, but it's uh you should again, like I was saying, try to be a bit honest with yourself about it. Um, painting something. I was just thinking about it now when you said it, Jamie. Painting something for just for painting, doing something. The the kind of ultimate test if you want to like do that to yourself is paint something and decide when you start that you're never going to show it to anyone.

>> Yeah. >> That would be the ultimate that would be the real like see if you can do that and what you think of it. Does that how does that make you feel painting something and and deciding like categorically I'm never going to show this to anyone. >> Put as much effort as you can. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> And not show it to anyone. If you think that this idea is nuts, >> then yeah, >> there's something to think about. >> Exactly. Yeah, that should tell you something. >> Which leads it very nicely into our task masters. We have a sideshow. No, but task masters is great. But yeah, I mean that we've we've we've we've touched on that before and it was a mindblower for me that I was I didn't like to share stuff on social media like like all the time, but I for sure was like excited to share it on social media to see the it's not even like you know a really just oh that's amazing I didn't care about I sort of just wanted to be like yeah it's a weird I don't know I can't remember.

Anyway, next point was without the shows, um, we wouldn't see loads of models, right? So, by having a competition, you're enabling 200, 300 pieces that you can go and view and and and that wouldn't exist anywhere else, right? >> Yeah. They are like >> couldist art galleries >> basically. >> Uh, >> yeah. So that leads me to the other thing that I was going to say as well which I think is I'm uh I've said said this to some people in the class that like just try to think of it as an exhibition um you try to remove the idea of competition. I thought about this so clearly when we were in Monte because the competition for me personally not to take away any there was some absolutely amazing pieces that won awards and I think that competition is is a good competition.

and it has really good judges. But for me personally, it was like 100% just exhibition just looking at all the stuff for me. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And the reason I brought my own I brought the space from Golden Even to Monte and it just felt a bit like I don't I don't even care if I would be happy for the judges not to like even have a look at these. It doesn't really they want to give them an award, fine, cool. But that's um it's really just there so that all the people that uh didn't see them in in Golden Demon or had to see them behind the glass could get a better look. It was really like it felt like a great opportunity to get them out and have at them.

>> Um and even like you know especially uh Jason who uh lives in America, doesn't get a lot of opportunities to come and look at our stuff got to hold them in his hand and have a good look. That's the really what it was for me. That was Monte for me. And I feel like it would I think it would help a lot of people to really try and think of it that way. Just think of it as a meet and greet and exhibition and like you just said an art gallery. It's just there to show off the stuff. >> At the end of the day, when you go to a competition like this, what you have is cabinets full of models that you cannot see anywhere in the world.

>> Exactly. >> So the first thing it is is it's an art gallery. >> And you you should be excited to to see the art gallery, which is why why we all like we go, right? We go to see other people model obviously to participate and show ours. But the main thing for me to go to these events is to see models because seeing in real life is so important. They change. >> Exactly. And if you and and and if you want to paint something, you spend all this effort doing something that you're really happy with and you think you've done a good job and you bring it to a competition even that I mean don't underestimate how amazing that can be to get to show off your work to a lot of the best painters in the world and uh you know ask them about it. Talk to people like use that opportunity. Again that's the kind of art gallery thing, the exhibition thing. Just try to keep in mind the last like what 30 minutes of the Sunday afternoon when they give awards that can't really invalidate all the other stuff.

>> There's this the typical phrase of if I don't paint anything I'm not going to this competition. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> Which I think it's that that is I really disagree with this statement. >> Yeah. >> Because that Well, I've not been for the last four years and I've gone to >> Exactly. But you're a great example of that. You you went to Monte and Golden Demon this year >> and uh >> and you see all the models and >> well I had a better time actually >> looking at every single person there that is sweating their ass off like I I I enjoy the event >> and everyone else is like fuck the awards. I mean >> and you're like and you're very clear about why you're going there to like see your friends, play Pokémon with our now and just hang out and eat disgusting food. It's it's a really that seems like a really sensible attitude towards these things as opposed to again some people might go and be really nervous the whole weekend that they might not win something.

>> So that was my last point is it's a social it it to me it is only a social right with around center it around the hobby that you love. Now Lionel um for the longest time said anybody who doesn't know Lionel is the old presenter who quit to chase money and he's a piece of shit. Um, and I can say what I want because he doesn't listen to the show. He's also a really bad character and person. Um, and it's questionable if anybody likes him, but Lionel um, he he only paid, as I said, for competitions.

And he's he always said, "Jamie, I don't know how you do it. You're an idiot or you're a lunatic for coming to these shows without competing." And last year was the first time he came to Monty. So, he took like a year out and he didn't go to any shows. Then he came to Monty and he had a time of his life and he was like, "Shit, I fucking loved it. This is amazing." But then at the end at the end he did say, "I'm going to enter next year." But >> no, but also he won something and he did. >> Oh, I forgot he even entered. Yeah. >> Yeah. But it was something old that he painted many years ago. It was >> But he was so happy. He was happy. He was so happy.

>> That was Retribution. That wasn't that the piece that that failed miserably at >> uh World Model. >> It was one that paint he painted with me, right? >> I really liked it. I think it was a good good piece. >> This was like two or three years ago. >> Yeah. >> But it's great. It's it's a really >> But yeah, you're right. He he he [laughter] was happy. There's a photo. I need to put those photos together of him on the Model Expo stage and then him on the stage and Monty. It's the polar opposites are very >> But imagine having a one of the best one of the best art galleries in the world of your field and and saying no I'm not going to go because >> the the last half an hour I cannot participate.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I think don't I think I think they should ban >> Yeah. Or or like you said now I'm not going to go cuz I haven't painted anything myself. Like >> I mean that literally is the thing. >> Go anyway. Go to art gallery. You go and have a look >> then I cannot go to any museum because I haven't painted anything. >> You do? >> I just think that >> Oh, we're not. >> No, I mean a canvas. But um I do think we have very quirky stuff in our industry that if when you think about it, it's like why do we do this? Is why are we so different in this regard?

Well, I I mean it is our community is is like its core basis is that right >> that they are with us. >> Well, yes. I mean, but the it's the competition. Without the competition, we wouldn't like think of every single person you know who's in this hobby. Most of them got into it golden demon when we were in our early teens, right? Most of them. So we are like obviously we we started the hobby first and then we started finding out about this.

>> So almost everybody in this circle is it's its core comes from competition. So you are raised it's like being raised as a an extremist you or a racist or something right you're your your reference points are those things. >> So that's what you find and I can't see any dissimilarities. Um, by the way, like and subscribe and then carry on. [laughter] Just carry on. >> But you say you say it right that we we were hobists first. So we >> But we were so young.

>> Yeah, it's true. >> We were still impressionable, right? Like >> I feel like a lot of uh a lot of uh I don't really know where this thought is going, but I I I've always thought it was weird that like Golden even came out of Games Workshop, and Games Workshop is so weird. They've done things so like they've been so kind of set apart from everyone else in this hobby. Like they had their own stores that only sold their products. Weird. They had a magazine exclusively for their products. Not originally. It was a bunch of other stuff. But like >> I don't know. Oh, Games Workshop from about Tom Kirby onwards through the '90s was just such a strange things that this weird like entity of we're going to have our own convention one day a year that's only for our stuff and then the magazine and then the stores and then the >> shows how big they have been. the games that you can only have our miniatures in and the, you know, u I feel like Golden Demon kind of fits into that where it's like we want to celebrate.

>> Yeah. >> Some kind of hobby excellence. Um and now we just take all of that for granted like Yeah. Obviously, everyone does that. >> Yeah. In in my in my case, I was talking more about the competitions as a whole. >> No, I get it. I get it. I get it. But Golden Demon probably is one of the reasons. Yeah, it kind of Yeah, I'm not sure if there I I couldn't really speculate if there would be painting competitions without Golden Demon because it's definitely the oldest one, >> but maybe potentially that's why I brought up Golden Demon and the old because they set the precedent to >> to be fair.

>> I can't cut you off. >> Yeah, >> there has been historical competitions uh since forever >> and uh IPMS. Yeah, >> a lot of um model shows come from those historical model shows. So, the fantasy side has overtake overtook the >> Yeah. Yeah. No, you're totally right. World Model Expo would have probably been around entirely without even Yeah. >> Well, then they just I reckon some bloke some Billy Nomates twat was like, "Let's have a gathering of all the people who do models and we can all look at them and have an art." And then the four people turned up and he was like, "Fuck, next year let's have a competition." And then 100 people turn up and then they're like, "Shit." Yeah. Like the only way I can view a load of models in one place is by having a competition.

>> That's And that's I imagine it >> I imagine it more like I have all these models here and I I bitch about which one has the best blue or which one is the best is the is more >> let's settle it once and for all. And it's like let's fucking settle it. Let's let's put some metal into it. And I'm pretty sure >> Yeah, I think you're totally right. >> I mean, the the the frustrating thing is we know for a fact we don't have enough listeners for anybody to know that point, right? Like if we were popular like um a certain [laughter] then we would have enough listeners to to ask that question and someone could but one day we'll have, you know, more listeners who aren't complete idiots and actually know these things and can let us know. Do you know what I mean? I think it's an important podcast staple that you don't you ask questions that you don't have the answer to and you refuse it.

>> Yeah. Well, I don't want to that's I built this podcast for a reason. It's just we're on season 4 and we've still got six listeners. It's a problem to be honest with you. But um we don't do it for the listeners. We do it for ourselves. We've we've always maintained >> I've never met I've met literally one of our listeners in person. >> Yeah, me. >> We say that we have six, but I think we could we could have four and we wouldn't notice. Well, if no ad admittedly, if I came back and we had like five listeners, I might throw all in at that point going down to five. Six is good to be honest.

>> It's a good number. Yeah, it's like >> I'm pretty happy. I'm going to make t-shirts, okay? I want I'm still Look, I've been I've been I've never publicly admitted it. So, maybe somebody will say they would buy a t-shirt. I probably have, actually, and they might have actually said they'd buy that t-shirt. Look, I still want to make mini matters t-shirts with statements that are mildly offensive and humorous. >> And I'm not talking like bad offensive. Do you know what I mean? >> Yeah. Banter. >> Banter. Slightly. Yeah.

>> So, let us know in the Discord how much you would pay for a t-shirt. >> Like and subscribe, Martin. And [laughter] and then let us know. Um, >> my mistake. >> Yes. Okay. So, I think we should unpack this competition thing now. I feel like this is the pre-chaff. This is the the this is getting our opinions out there and then next episode we can actually talk about it in or in 6 months or something of why they're bad cuz we we basically haven't said they're bad. >> Well, well, it's not like why they're bad because that's already making a conclusion, right? [laughter] >> A little bit. It's like why why do they exist in the first place? That's that's that's the and then that's what we'll do next episode. All right. Another Do you know what I mean? Also, what I will say is we've gotten really good at making these episodes long because we're like an hour and 15 in and we've basically barely started, right? And whereas before

>> we're like we're chewing the meat. We're into the meat already. We're I'm the meat of it never took the meat of it never took part like that didn't take basically we we used to take we used to do like an hour and 10 minutes and and we'd be trying to push basically I'm saying we get along well. All right just just take take the compliment. Um >> yeah although I hadn't said it to get there anyway. We don't have a

Grobusters. I just realized >> we're on family we're on family. >> You have to you'll have to contend with the >> Yeah. Faction feed. Uh yeah, family feud, right? So this is >> it's faction feud cuz it's 40k, mate. But yes, it is family feud. Um right, do you want thought of the day? Do you want one Dr. Love Brush? Let's do one Dr. Love Brush and then come back to do another. >> I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to remember this time that thought of the day is not for is not a conversation topic, >> but it could be if it's great. >> Yeah. Love I think I've slightly love things I love and things I hate. They We don't need to, but they can. It's fine.

Like, we need to fill up this. We need We need to fill this shit. Do you know what I mean? >> We've got >> Yeah. >> So, what do you want? Okay. Wait. Right. So, LG asked this literally four months ago. Um, but we've just not done them because we've taken up too long. >> Is it one of the are now questions exclusively for now? >> No. >> Probably. >> And this question on LG is Lionel. >> Okay. Yeah, >> he's our boy. >> He is our boy. >> One day, LG, we're going to get you on the show. Now, you might or might not hate that, but one day you can be I'll have to come up with a new fucking background, which is a nightmare, but um is miniature painting question mark.

Be interesting hearing the perspective. Oh, fuck. Have we done that already? Is miniature painting. Is miniature painting art? Yeah. And we did do a whole >> Yeah, we did a whole episode, >> right? Cheers, mate. Good question, buddy. See you next week. you invitation rescended. Um, is there any skill you >> had some other ones? >> Yeah, know I'm going I'm going [laughter] >> I just had to mug him off. Um, is any skill or material technique uh you've pushed over the years and never quite gotten or eventually overcame or outgrew? So, is there a technique that was too difficult for you? This is for both of you or me as well, I guess. Um, >> or one that you thought was great and then over the years you realized was shit and you stopped using it.

technique. >> Well, dry brush, for example, there's never going to be a reason why you wouldn't use that. And it's always it's timeless. >> Well, [sighs] I don't know if you remember an episode that I said that techniques that the word techniques say I didn't like it. >> LG double rescended. You're going to have to do something very good to get on the show now cuz you've annoyed our now. >> Well, are now can you can you just not like technique with method or >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. or >> what I mean is I wanted to just publicly humiliate LG. [laughter] >> No, no, no. Do you know when >> I'll get you on the episode. You can you can get him back. It'll be fine. Yeah.

>> Do you know when in the anime when they do a technique, they announce the technique? >> Yes, they >> they shout it. >> They shout it so you know what what what it comes, right? And if they >> You do that with dry brushing, don't you, Jimmy? >> Exactly. And this is for me this what this is what technique sound like. So when you [clears throat] say dry brush, it's like you shout dry brush and you do it. >> And in my opinion, it's just using the brush, right? Sometimes it's drier, sometimes it's wetter, sometimes it's more loaded, sometimes it's not. But there's they blend together all these techniques.

>> No, but dry brush is by itself. But I get what you're saying. >> Yeah, obviously. And I don't use dry brush. >> But what what I mean is >> So that's one you've outgrown then for sure. Because you would have >> Well, I do use it, I guess. Sometimes >> I think you do dry brushing on the when you got the makeup brushes. That's dry brushes basically, isn't it? >> Yeah. And sometimes you just go over details with the flat brush. So, so it's a form of dry brush. It's not dry brush, but it's a form of dry brush. But that's what I mean that it's like >> Michael, you've triggered him. I hope you're happy. [laughter] >> You you this is I have a weird answer to this question like trauma. I feel like this is like an artistic answer to this question because >> Yeah.

>> Oh, yeah. I don't really agree. >> You know, it's such a spectrum [laughter] the of >> how to use the brush, >> right? Without us interrupting you. Oh, now you give the answer and then or do you feel like you've covered it even though we laughed at you the whole time? >> Oh, I explained it perfectly. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Uh, horribly enough, I'm I'm going to agree with her now. Uh, there's no I I apologize. >> Is that cuz you don't want to do a little >> It's a wishy-washy bullshit answer, but it's really like not not There's nothing that I used to do all the time that I never do now.

Maybe some things that I thought were like this is the shit. This is how to do this. Like one spec very specific thing. For a while I thought that using inks to do metallics was like that's that's the be all end all way to do it. And um so it's more like there's been a few tiny things that I've thought this is the best way to do this that I've since thought maybe there's more ways than one which is kind of what Ana was saying but like we're just using the brush for all things at all times in various ways and >> we never turn on I I agree with you with like there's no you don't turn on the the dry brush button or like dry brush mode.

>> Dry brush is a bad example cuz I also don't really use that. will be anything like like a like a glaze. It's not like okay, it's time for the glazing stage. That's just not how it works. >> It's not how it [snorts] works. And what you're doing is just >> changing the paint changing places and how how you put it in your in your figure. >> There's always a different >> Not saying it's a bad question, Michael, but this is the answer you're getting. >> Well, I'm going to question. >> I'm going to throw a fucking question >> hand grenade in here. >> Yeah. No, fuck that wrench. This is heavier. I learned a technique with Alfonso Hgarades.

>> Mhm. >> Technique. >> Yeah. >> You call it when you use >> and I didn't know about this technique before I used it. Okay. >> Cuz I didn't use any techniques. My technique was I I fucking put some paint on a model. Let's say I want to go from red to yellow. I'd put the red on and then I'd dab into the fucking yellow at the bottom and then I'd go and and I'd smush them together and then I'd and I' and then I just get it all.

>> Yes, basically. But I didn't know what it was called back then. Right. Because I now I didn't want to give it a technique cuz >> would you imagine a canvas painter talking about techniques as well? >> He must do. They must have all banged on about technique. I reckon that was all they fucking talked about back in the day. But >> you have to agree. I think they probably would. I think when you're that into the thing you're doing, you probably have terrible. >> Surely you must have some ideas of maybe not as much. >> Surely [clears throat] they do, but >> I don't know. >> It wasn't their defining Yeah. It wasn't like, okay, I use this technique and then the B's like, "Right, say no more." >> That's how you got that piece.

>> Yeah. Like that fucking thing up there with that little baby finger in that old man. >> Yeah. That was Don't worry, mate. I've got it. Right. So, >> like like like it's when you if you watch Bob Ross videos, which I'm sure we all do all the time, like he'll sometimes he'll use his his knife, like the pallet knife or whatever it is, and he does like little scratches and stuff. That's a pretty defined technique, >> but sometimes he'll use the fan brush and he'll do the the tree branches. >> But the technique for me is just an ability to get something done in a consistent way. That's what I think a technique is.

>> Yeah, maybe. >> I don't know. >> Right. Anyway, I'll finish my anecdotal story here. Um, so he and then Alfonso was like, "You just do this crosshatch," I think he called it. I was like, then the next thing video, I was like, "What the fuck is that?" And then he goes, "You just goick." [laughter] He did those sound effects. There was no video. He just did the sound effects. And then I instantly knew what he meant. And then all of a sudden, I had cross-hatching in my repertoire of things. And that's all I've used since I've painted now. I have no other way to paint. It's just everything is cross-hatched, right?

>> Except for like dry brush or whatever. But so that's something that he taught me and I learned instantly and then I can use cuz it helped me get to what I need to get to. But it is just it is just a way to do something. But I guess my main point here is I don't have many ways to paint. I haven't painted enough. I've been stuck in my old you know for the last 20 years I just did wet blending. That's all I ever did. Cuz for some reason, well, no, I know the answer now. And I didn't until this exact moment. I was never trying to do anything different from what I was doing before. I knew how to do something and I just kept doing it that way, right?

>> I was doing every metal models. I wasn't even doing trying to recreate this thing. What's this thing called the Elder Project? So, I wasn't trying to recreate every metal. I just had my way of painting every metal and that stayed the same. So it's only now that I'm trying to take my skills. >> I actually just understood something. I think >> it seems like you do actually call the techniques and do the jutsu in in a way like you choose one technique and you do it right.

>> Yeah. Right. And it never occurred to me, absolutely ever occurred to me, that you could choose a technique and do it instead of >> That's how I just That's how I paint. >> That's mind-blowing to me for some reason. [laughter] >> I have no other way. >> I think uh >> I think people do that though. I think I I feel like I see this sometimes with uh these um people that try to do tutorials and stuff and they'll say like, "I've just learned glazing." Uh again, like it's something that you can kind of turn on. I think that >> especially when it's like army painting they'll have like a dry brush stage and then a wash stage and then this stage and another you know.

>> Yeah. Yeah. That that I can understand of course but when when painting >> I don't know I it never occurred to me that you you put your mindset into one technique and then you do that technique and then it's it's in a in brackets you know you >> it's I've got no other so I've got two techniques that's all I've got. >> I see. I see. So I've only got two ways to paint. So I'm like how do I do this? And I'm like, well, I don't know how and it's impossible. But that's changed now, I think, because of the Warhammer World visit. >> Yeah. >> So, right, I've only ever had two techniques cuz I've only ever wanted to do two things. And anything else that was not in that remit of of something I saw and I just knew I couldn't do, right? And that's why I found this concept of doing this thing intimidating because I knew I wouldn't be able to do it.

I I just remembered the video that we recorded for the like the journey there. Do you remember? >> Um yeah. Well, you do >> your video. Your video. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My video. My video. >> I don't remember. >> And we talked about how when I learned how to paint, I didn't learn how to paint with anyone nor internet. I I was just painting by myself without any input from the outside. So, I didn't know names of techniques. I didn't know that you could have techniques. I was just using my brush. You know what I mean?

And maybe that's the that's the difference here that I I I didn't I didn't learn through techniques. I was just picking up my brush and then just moving paint. But what were your references? How were you coming up with stuff? Were you looking at books? >> Yeah. Yeah. But that shows an inherent difference in because I wasn't doing techniques back then when I although you started your journey later than me, right? >> The thing is I you dived in deeply into it because you loved it, right? I painted from 12 to 14 and then stopped and then >> Well, yeah.

>> And then I did one >> stopped. >> Okay. I was going to say I did one model a year really badly and like a Guardian or an AB. Right. But I never needed to think to challenge myself because I was really happy with what I was doing. And then then 2018 to that long break and then I did that model and then went to Alfonso's course. But I still hadn't realized I wanted to do other stuff until Warhammer World. I was still thinking, like I said, he was trying to teach me to do something, but I only wanted to do it this way. And the the way I wanted to do it was the stuff I'm seeing in Golden Nemon. this kind of clean blah blah blah just you get what I mean right whereas you you on your journey you were trying to do stuff and you wanted to know how to do this so you were looking at stuff and thinking okay that's cool but also you I think I'm putting words in your mouth here but I think you were like no I want to try this out I want to push this I want to do this which meant that you had to work out how to do stuff >> and you didn't care about techniques but you also you were striving for something

different whereas I was in this place and And I wanted to be in that place. So I never looked outside the box cuz I didn't need to. I didn't want to. It's only now I'm thinking, okay, I can paint something in a different way from heavy metal, which was what literally a month and a half ago I had that realization. H for for some reason it just something appeared in my head that again uh a while I like to cook and for example I I want I like um you know this very soft brownish onion caramelized onion almost >> yeah caramelized onion >> not specifically caramelized but but something like that so which is slightly transparent and it's brownish And when I want I wanted to do that because I didn't had in at my home. I had an onion but I didn't had caramelized onion and I wanted to put some in my in my food. And I was like how how could I bring this onion to be trans translucent and brown

and I thought okay if I if I boil it wrong that's not going to do it. If I if I fry it wrong as well because it will be crispy. what if I fry it but with a very low heat and then I doing a removing it all the time and then it it turned out all right. So it was a way of trying and it's specifically the same. So I I saw something in my in my in a figure that I wanted and I thought how can I do this right and you think a little bit about it and just just try it and maybe you'll find it find a way.

I do think yeah [laughter] I've heard I've heard sometimes people talk about painting in a way that makes me think um they assume that everything is a technique which technically is probably true but it's kind of the it becomes the opposite of what Arnau is talking about. So instead of just going, well, I'll just paint. I'll put some paint on a palette and I'll mix it with some water and then I'll that's when I'll just do all the things and instead they think of it as like every single step is a technique.

>> So, you know, it's not painting, it's base coating. It's not painting, it's layering. >> That step, doesn't it? Yeah. >> Yeah. And and that's fine, but I I do find sometimes it creates more uh confusion. It it almost complicates things. Like I've had people ask about like, "How did you dry brush this?" And I'm like, "I didn't? What are you talking about? It's I just edge highlighted it. The highlight I just painted. That's weird." Um, fair enough that they think I dry brush my models. But, you know, um, it's like it's a weird It's weird that that would be like in, you know what I mean? Um, I guess it's like just replace the word dry brush with paint. Just replace all of these words. But that's all the question of what technique did you use? And I'm I don't know. I I don't know how to do that. I just painted it.

>> Yeah, exactly. >> Never to me that that you can paint through techniques. That's >> I think that's what the vast majority of people do. >> I think otherwise why are they asking? Let's let's let's let's get those six listeners getting us low. Let us know in the comments after you've liked and subscribed. I'm only doing this for the algorithm, okay? I just I want to see if it makes a difference. It's very very it's very good. It's it's going to work as well. I'm I also have to say that I started and not to there's no real kind of what's the word like pride in this or anything but I did start the way are now as well with more of a mind of how to achieve results. So just thinking about what I wanted to do and definitely just looking at like white dwarfs and thinking how did they do this thing. I'm going to and the way I'm going to approach it is probably painting and layering and building up layers of paint. Just no more weirder words than that or specific techniques.

>> I mean, not to go into another meat of it, but I do think that um it's easier to be prescribed how to do something. It's much less cognitive and less intimidating. I'll learn this technique. I'll use this technique. It's just it's it's coloring by numbers, right? Basically, at that point, Well, I mean, if you paint by recipes, the recipes are not only colors, I guess, they're also methods. >> So, how how do you apply this and you need you need a technique, right? >> Because Exactly. Yeah. You've got both, a dry brush. So, I guess it comes from that from the recipes >> and that. So, your whole thing are now when when you said you'd finished and I was expecting a big bomb at the end, but it didn't. Um but the the bomb was in the Anyway, that was my response was that people are scared to fuck things up basically and that's why they don't want to go down that road because it's much more it's not just like compos it's just at home you're trying to do this thing in you know so I get it um and the logic

behind it and I guess our job as mini matters um I mean let's those six listeners we we I need to know if what their what how they approach it right before we can even but if that's our goal answers. If we don't have six answers, we are >> Yeah. Any less than six answers, I'm fucking quitting straight up. >> If I get five, I'm fuming. If you are possibly the sixth and you see there's five, don't comment just for the banter.

>> So, right. I mean, yeah, I'm pushing it along a little bit because my wife called me and told me I need to pick up my child and I haven't done my work yet. Um, so we will go to the thought of the day. So, I guess I should do the jingle, but I just realized I can't do the fucking jingle because we're not in Discord. So, I need to link them into >> I was thinking >> anyway. >> So, an episode with no jingles. What are we >> No, no, there will be so many jingles, but we'll just have to edit them afterwards. >> I'm definitely not fucking editing anything. So, unless Martin, you knew that and you were just trapping me.

>> That was literally entrapment, wasn't it? Lip thought of the day. Ding ding ding. Oh, no. I think therefore I am thought of the day right boys. One to six three. Oh no. Get ready. This is a big one. This is I still haven't been able to reconcile this thing and I've spoken to you both about this at at length. Voice boxes. Okay. Now hold on. Let me just update the a voice box. I know how it works. I know the concept. Okay.

I can't believe it's real. There's there's so many things in this universe that don't make sense. Okay. You believe in God, you don't believe in God. I don't care. Right? The fact that there are as many stars that as there are there are as many galaxies there are, it doesn't make sense. Voice boxes for me are even up there on a on a conceptual mind. are now how okay now [laughter] people I think it was you Martin or someone they suggest I'm on drugs now I've never taken drugs except for a few puffs of marijuana and it fucked me right but a voice box okay now it's in your throat it's perfectly placed right which is fine evolution sorted it all out and put it there unless you believe in God and God put it there you you you move your fucking lungs just the right amount like and it pushes air through your voice box. Now you breathe in and you breathe out, but you use your voice box to to make noise and then whoops.

You position your fucking mouth and tongue in a specific way that lets you understand what I'm saying. But >> so that in itself I think is fucking wild. But how how do we know to push the exact amount of air through this time? I just can't get my head around it. Like, [sighs and gasps] but there's no voice engaged. And now I'm [laughter] I want to do an interview with like a biologist who can try and explain. >> Yeah, we'll get we we'll get a biologist in here. That'll be a good episode.

>> I can't believe you guys can't think how fucking weird it is that you push and then you get and then it works. I mean for me I told you when we spoke about this one of the seven times that we spoke about this is is that for me um a [clears throat] a computer is is is something so so fucking magic like a few pieces of metal >> I know things yeah >> like when I >> and and they are pieces of metal that remember things which is the most crazy thing in the world >> I think about this all the time when I'm on my phone and that I'm using like radio waves just how how how the phone works, but also the fact that it works wirelessly >> for >> even that I'm talking to you guys right now, it is absolute science fiction.

Completely ridiculous that it works. But no, the voice box thing um >> does confuse >> practice. Yeah, cuz I don't understand half of the shit that M that are now does with miniature painting, but I've I've learned through this podcast that the answer is you practice. And I think the reason we have speech is through thousands and thousands of years of practicing. >> And most people don't understand half of the what Jamie says. And we through practice we understand. >> Exactly. >> Well, you just said you you just said now Jamie that you're you're just spewing out all of these crazy things and then people understand you, which is which is true of the both of us.

>> Being optimistic. Yeah. >> Do you know who didn't understand me? >> Get good. They didn't understand my banter. >> Exactly. So, that answers your question right there. The voice box, >> you know, the thing about get the get good thing, right? Just just quickly to go back there. You know, in my life, I like to say offensive things knowing that they're offensive and then I and then I I play and I I scope out the people in real life and I'm like, "Right, that guy's boring as fuck and these guys get me, but that boring No, no, boring as fuck's not right. I've offended them. The boring people are fine." Like, that I've offended. So, then I'll dial it back. I will give them because I don't want to be offensive, right? And everyone's like, "What the fuck are you talking about? You don't want to be offensive? You're saying these things that are wildly offensive." >> No, I want to find the balance between people are questioning, "Is that offensive? How did Jamie get away with that?" That's what I want, right? And that's normally what I get at every work. They're like, "You should have been fired 100 times by now." And then someone else will say it and everyone's like offended, but then they're like, "But Jamie said that." And then everyone laughs.

>> So get good. went too far because even their listeners didn't get it right which is the important distinction. It's not it's not that any one person did something wrong anyway. >> So yes, understanding it's deeper than that though. It's just like it's [laughter] it's yeah, you know, I just can't I cannot grasp it. It's a computer works and I get how a computer works and it's it's it's really >> it's way weirder though.

>> No, right. Well, okay. >> Makes no sense. >> Look, if you do that some real hair. >> Yeah, this is impressive as well. But some pieces of metal put in a certain way. >> Yeah. >> And they they they it's fucking magic like and and they generate things now and some pieces of metal think now. So I don't I yeah I I never I will never get this. >> Well, it it's it is the it's an amazing science like a microchip and the levels that they're doing and all those kind of things are they are just bonkers. And now you have quantum computers as well which okay they're not really ready yet for any real use but yeah and then the whole concept of a programming language and built on a programming language built on a programming language right so even when you strip it back and you're like okay you've got a processor which understands zeros and ones like you go back to the 1960s50s 40s >> or you go back to like Alan Turing and the code cracking and >> like that feels really analog in a way that's supposed to make us understand

how that could turn into a computer, but it just makes it way weirder to me. >> But it's just it's it's I mean, the matrix touches upon it. It's just systems built on systems, right? >> And that's all a computer is. It's a it's so you've got that basic concept like A as a character is I think it's eight zeros to make it a bit, right? And then a B will be eight zero or seven zeros and a one. Yeah. >> Right. But but even the concept of an A and all that shit is mindboggling for a computer to understand. And then yeah so they are very very complex and I um I understand the concept behind them.

Probably the thing is that you understand uh voice boxes more than you understand a computer. So then >> you know how they work and the fact that you understand every single every single every single thing about how a voice is created it it mesmerizes you more about the complexity of it I guess. Well it just doesn't it it's just a thing cartilage that sits in your throat and then >> Yeah, I know what this is.

>> I get it. Like it's no, but the thing is it's evolution has just worked it out, right? Obviously, people who could communicate better back then with grunts and whatever had an evolutionary advantage over the bloke who didn't evolve in the same way, right? So it and then he was fucking more women than the guy cuz he was screaming louder or whatever the apes wanted that makes sense. Yeah. >> So I get it. And then that you just extrapolate that over, you know, 100 million years, 400 million years. But it's just crazy that it's it's so fuck and it's just you're just pushing.

I don't know, man. It's fucking pissed me off. Um, and computers I feel like I understand more than a voice box. I get what you're saying, though. It's simple. Anyway, that's it. >> We're going to do Faction Feud. >> Oh, fuck. I thought we were done, right? Yeah. Hold on then. >> Oh, do you actually We can push it to

next. >> No, no, no, no, no. Give the people style. >> Family faction feuds. I need to rename it. We are This probably will be. I've I've got five questions here. Four. I thought I wrote down I put five together. >> And this might be the last one on Monty. Okay. >> Mhm. >> What is the score? >> I think it was a draw. >> We were uh Yeah, it's worth a draw, right? Very uneven. >> That one would have been a draw. Yeah, I think it is because I think I got one one point more the first time and then you got the I think we're exactly even. Yeah.

>> Okay. listeners, the six of you, if you remember, let us know. MJ might know. Yeah, >> DJ. DJ, what what's Michael's name in this? LJ LG LG. Fuck's sake. Lucky gold star. Weird name, mate. 100. Oh, you know how the game, right? So, the game basically is Family Fortunes where I ask 100 people and they just give me one answer. The first thing that comes into their head and then I put it down into a fucking list for people. So the first thing who is going first um >> oh no I think last question today it doesn't matter if there's if there's an odd odd number it does make a big difference so >> top reasons for going to Monty >> top reasons for going to Monty I mean the first one should see minis it is the top answer. Well done, Arnal.

Well done, mate. 28 points. So, it's not it's [laughter] am I belittling his answer. Um, Martin, it's only 28 points and the next number two is 22 points, so it's not that big a lead. Okay. >> Oh. Uh, see your friends should be >> number two. >> Slimey 22 points. I was I was going to do another one and then I I just pivoted right at the end. I got it. >> It's getting harder now. Maybe >> uh the I think for the foot.

>> It is on there, but it's not the best. It's number five in the list. >> It's my number one now. So, thank you. >> Yeah. And that is number five with 10 points. >> Uh it's also food, town, wine, atmosphere. Like it's the weather enough to >> Yeah. >> So the third would be see miniatures see friends. Um get inspired. That's probably see miniatures though. [sighs and gasps] It is. But there is Yeah. Do another one. Have another guess. Yeah.

>> Um I'll uh >> So, so the top answer actually just just is inspiration and seeing models. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So, we've covered inspiration for sure. Uh maybe like Maybe like get ideas. Is that same thing again? >> That's inspiration. [laughter] Fuck. >> Let me think of another way to uh inspiration.

>> Literally just saying the same thing over and over again. I'm I'm trying to think what people might have I would have only had like one answer to this. Obviously, >> there are we spoke about it annoyingly. I was a little bit disappointed that our conversations were going this way. It's funny because in the in the actual Family Feud, they give the contestants like one second to answer. Like literally one second. >> But they're easy. It's like what would you find in a supermarket? >> I know. I know. But but just the fact that you have to say something so quickly it's mind-blowing. >> I'll say competition then to compete.

>> It's Yeah, you can have it. It's number four. Displaying your work. Put putting your pieces on display, right? But it's not necessarily >> Yeah. Yeah. I think it counts. What do you think, Arnell? >> What do I think about? What >> am I Are you allowing the same thing as >> displaying your work? >> I don't think I should get I don't think it's exactly the same, but Okay. >> Uh I mean, yeah, it is. >> Okay. Oh, now you're winning by two points. >> That was a 12point answer. >> Martin, there's only one question you can answer now to win. Uh >> unless you get So for me, the third would be I need a clock.

>> That's what next week I'm going to add a clock. And you've got 30 seconds. All right. >> So, I guess maybe we've said that already, but meeting new people, but we we kind of said meeting people, but not new. >> We said friends. Extrapolate out. I've used that twice. Weird. build on that answer a little bit and then I can give it to you. >> Uh, so meeting friends for the first time.

>> No, >> no, it's not on there now. I'm going to have to say it's not on there. And Martin, I'll give you a quick You can have like 30 seconds on this because I've given a bit of a hint. >> Yeah. Um, I guess if it's not meeting people for the first time, meeting friends, um, >> is it like meeting people from social media? No, that's the same thing. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> you kick yourselves by unless I know you've got it.

>> I think I'm maybe, but maybe not. But maybe. >> But it's something like that. It's seeing people that you look up to, seeing people that you follow on social media, seeing your hobby heroes. >> Yeah, I suppose you could broadly have it. Oh, no. What were you going to say? >> Yeah, what were you going to say? >> Uh, well, I was going to change completely, but because I thought that this was already covered, but is this is on the meeting? >> Worldclass painters meet and getting advice and and so social media here. >> Well, I was going to say learning, but >> yeah. Well, okay. Fuck it, Martin. You have that, right? This is the last guess, isn't it?

Oops. 40 two. Oh, now you have >> There's another one. >> You have Oh. Oh, do we only do three? Okay. Sorry. Fuck the rules. Right. Well, that means Martin wins that round by four points. He just pipsed you at the end. Um, and the other ones you had >> You sort of kind of elaborated on that last one, but fair enough. >> Whatever. [snorts] Um, you have number six, learning new techniques or ideas. And then the last one is buying paints or materials.

>> Yeah, I was gonna say shopping. >> There's a lot of people going did that paints of all things. >> Paints. Well, there's Chamra there. There's a couple, but materials. There's a lot of um of the really posh wooden bases that they don't ship. >> Yeah, Ilbasetto. That's a good reason to go to Monte though. >> Name a type. I mean, this is a bit more boring and we might have done it, but the type of mon like type of piece that dominates Monty's tables. >> Type of piece. >> Oh, okay. >> Uh, I go first.

>> Yes, please. >> Uh, type of peace. >> Is my mic better by the way on now? >> H >> Is my mic better? >> No. >> It's still shit, is it? >> Yeah, fair enough. [laughter] I I'll just say uh I'll just say busts. I don't know if that's narrow enough. >> Martin, you've you've hit the jackpot there. That is number one. >> Okay. Well, that's literally what it is. [laughter] >> I would have thought it would be like historical bust or fantasy bust or >> No, no, you're fine.

>> Lucas, finish it or something. Yeah. >> Yeah. Or or >> No, no, no. Fuck that. >> Paras bust. Okay. So, bust is the number one. >> Number one, 27. So the other options are like 75 mm and 28 mm and stuff like that or more specific. >> It's a type. It's a type of conceptually >> type of entries. Okay. Yeah. >> Like there armor. Good. You two are on fire. That's number two. Okay. >> Damn. That is a >> that is a fucking bullseye now.

>> Yep. Well, yours was more of a but yes, >> mine was actual bullseye. Yeah, his was like the little he he nubbed the the fuck fuck it. Carry on. Next >> thought about it more as well. Like busts is just that's literally what it is. Um what else would people say? Uh well the uh the storytelling entries I guess >> they they come under I did that under diarama scenes. >> Duramas. Okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. Uh, sculptures.

Scratch built clays sculptures. >> No. >> No. It's not a It's not a No. Sorry, mate. You tried though. Yeah, >> I did. [snorts] >> You don't get those at all the competitions either. They actually have them in Monte. >> It's true. That is true. >> Jason would have said that. I didn't ask Jason though. >> Like unique unique pieces like originals. >> No, that's what he just said. So I guess you weren't listening.

>> No, I meant I meant like the bare unpainted >> green. That's what I now meant as well, right? >> No, no, it's not. >> No, you mean just like oneoff unique things that are made for the >> Yeah, >> I I obviously if people said that I didn't clock that, so it's fine. Yeah. >> No, it's not on there. Go on Martin on Yeah. [laughter] >> What is the answer? What is the most common entry? Sorry, was that the question? >> Yeah. Well, yeah, basically. Yeah. >> What are the most common entries? Um, no one would have said like Warhammer stuff. Uh, fantasy large scale maybe.

Uh, no, we've like covered everything with busts and diuramas. I have no idea. Um, thanks. >> Yeah, >> there's no way anyone said that, but >> no, it's number six. Six people, >> right? >> Large centerpieces, tanks, monsters. >> Last answer. Now, now to win, you need to answer with number three or number four. H >> yeah, you've got this.

>> Uh I don't even know if it qualifies as a as an actual answer, but historical. >> That is number four on now. Well done, mate. >> Boom. >> Which was weird cuz literally Martin, you said that and you said fantasy single and you said historical, but then you went with tanks. >> I just thought that was too generic cuz cuz I know the first thing 75 mil or historical or whatever. So, I fucked up with my question. All right, I get it. Well, fair enough. >> No, no, you're right. You're right. It's just we should have been We could have answered that more specific because we decided that it wasn't quite as generic.

>> Isn't a single miniature? >> No, it's not. >> To be fair, we we don't have to answer the question. We have to to answer what people think that, >> right? Who so are now one? So, it's one all there's two left.

>> What ways could you improve Monty? Now this is going to be very hard for our now but um on now you are first. >> Yeah exactly. >> That's my answer. No um >> I would have loved it if someone said if Arno came I mean that actually would have been our answer probably. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> How can you improve? I mean, I'm just going to imagine, but more space. >> It's not the top answer on there, but it is on there. It's number two.

>> Is it not the top answer? >> Nope. >> Oh shit. >> It is 21 points for you. Good sir. >> More space. So, less queuing in that staircase. >> I would love more space. >> And what else? Um, oh wow, that's really tricky. I do really want to know what people said as number one. >> Well, I will tell you at the end. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Wait. Uh, it's um people said they enjoy our our silent pauses. So, yeah. like like they really enjoy them.

>> Oh, is that what they meant by pauses? They might have meant this when we just not >> I think so. Yeah. >> No, but he said that you went for for water. So, >> I think I I think I paused then like >> but not to cut that out. No, you're more than welcome to uh to mute this podcast if you're listening to it. You'll get the full experience. >> I could pause, but I'm not going to. This is much more live. This is the end anyway, right? This is like an Easter egg for people. >> Exactly. the bonus extra material. Uh so so um the best way to improve Monte people think is I I have absolutely no idea. Uh other judges.

No, no one's going to say that. They're quite happy with the judges, aren't they? >> Yeah, but I we >> Oh, is it to do with Yeah. No, that's my answer. Sorry. I said I said a thing and it wasn't >> give him a clue going on now. Uh, better lighting. >> It is on there. It's number four. >> Mhm. >> 12 points. Now, I have to say I'm surprised cuz the lighting is actually very good. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> the lighting is pretty good. That's what they say about Golden Demon is that he should be more like Martin. >> Golden Demon is clearly is the worst competition.

>> That's going to be Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I'm looking forward to asking people that. So, don't give them tips. Right. Martin, you've still got number one. >> Okay. So maybe maybe the uh awards ceremony uh could be like shorter or uh >> that would be my number one. >> Yeah, I'll go with I'll go with shorter. The award ceremony >> and that is number one Martin. Well done. And that is 26 points. >> Last answer. Now this is all on this basically if you get one you'll win. >> Uh this is weird. There's one very weird outlining answer here that I wouldn't have thought of.

Better accommodation uh like easier or you know like >> that's probably one right >> number three hotel Airbnb 15 points. >> Um you can answer for fun but I now won that one I I think cuz they've all been eaten up. What was number one? Is that the one I said? >> Yeah, the ceremony. >> Yeah, that was the award ceremony. So, we've got award ceremony. Uh, more space, nothing to do with lighting. Uh, more vendors, maybe.

No. >> Uh, no. But I'll give you the rest. The next top answer you could have had is being able to take photos easily. Um, Monty, they shout at you if you lean over people. Yeah. Yeah. Um, then you had more seating area, rest areas, which I kind of semi- disagree with. >> Um, >> yeah, I thought there was there were plent earlier opening hours that I completely agree with, but it's not my main gripe. And then more workshops, artists teaching you and and they're the answers.

>> So, yeah. Um, but yeah, the award ceremony is a particular frustration for people apparently. It is long and they talk shit. They don't need to talk that much shit. >> Yeah. No, >> they're really long. No offense if you're running Monty. 100. Oh, yeah. Right. Top reasons people say to not going to Monty, why they wouldn't come. >> This is another one. >> It's the last one. This is the winning one. >> So, we are going for Yeah. Okay. >> Fuck it. Then I don't have to do Monty again. >> It's It's Why do people not go to Monty?

>> Um, >> and Martin, you're up >> and you have to win this. It's two one to1 now at the moment. >> Yeah. So the top reason would be the accommodation. Well, that's a no. Then >> there's basically there's nowhere to stay is >> No, it's not on there. Uh >> I would say the dates that they're close to other shows. That's my reason.

Someone has to think like me. >> No, it's I've not >> I'm trying to think when I collected these I might not have thought and they might have actually been a good one but it I both of your answers are under something else. >> So just you can both have another question another answer if you want. >> Okay then. I mean, yeah. Uh, the the Monte is just too small. Maybe too small of a town. >> No. >> Okay. >> I mean, vaguely kind of. >> No, it's not. I think we need to be a bit harsh with the way you wrote the answer is how we should answer it.

>> All right. Fine then. Then yes and no. >> Um, because it's expensive. >> Top answer. >> Yeah. which comes under >> it's hard to find accommodation, right? But I would yeah >> to be fair too expensive travel >> to be fair that's not that's not the only reason why I said accommodation both because it's expensive but also it it's literally there's not that many places to rent >> which make it go Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, I agree. And >> so it's actually not it's not exactly the same thing. If I was talking about Essen that's more like Yeah, there are hotel rooms even in summer but it's super expensive >> which is a different thing. Monte is more like there are literally no rooms.

>> Yeah. >> Now got that one. >> Good work now. >> Yeah. Take care of that light. >> We got like one minute left. >> That sweet bright white light, baby. Makes me look pink. Gone. Go on. I you I'll I'll do this one. >> Who's next? >> Is it my turn? Yeah, it is my turn. You got one. It's my turn. Fuck. Uh reasons not to go. Um expensive. Yeah, expensive is the only reason people don't do anything. I mean, >> there's some other It's hard when you're looking at the answers.

>> The host says quiet though. >> Competition. No, nothing to do with competition. Um too no too small with some too expensive. I think I may have >> um [clears throat] people don't think their uh painting is up to standard. I mean everyone who's there is going to say >> that is no that is on there. That is the fifth answer. Martin, you get nine points. Nine points. If we were on the real show, we would shout, "Good answer.

Good answer." >> High five. Yeah. >> On Family Feud. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh mine would be that it's difficult to get there. Like there's no >> Now you basically won. That's That is answer number two. And it's difficult to too far. Yeah. Because there's no >> I was on to that with wrong with too small of a city, man. I should have just >> I mean I'm an expert on not going to Monty. So this is my experience. >> [laughter] >> It's unfair. >> That's true. >> Right. Last one then. Martin. >> Yeah. Just for the sake of uh completion. I guess Arnell's completely dominated this round.

>> He's got 59 points out of 100. So he's literally >> I mean damn. >> Yeah. He's literally won. >> The man refuses to go to Monte. This is his field. >> So uh reason not to go fucking >> It's actually 49. They have um >> Italians. >> They would rather go to other competitions. >> Uh no, but that should have been I will give you the answers. Work commitments is number three. >> Mhm. >> Family commitments is number two. >> Mhm.

>> I'm intimidated. It's too busy, which comes in the size. So that's why like >> this one I understand, but the other two are for literally every single trip that you can do in a year. Like Yeah. That's for like going That's for like seeing your friends on a on a Wednesday evening. That's >> still a reason why they don't go and then um don't feel good enough yet. So they are >> not good enough to paint. I realize it's probably under five as well. Intimidated, but there you go, boys. >> It is literally that.

>> Yeah. All right, calm down. Um >> good job now. [laughter] >> So 3-1. That is a comprehensive defeat, but that means that the score is 1 nil to our now or 2-1 if you want to get technical. But let's do the difference be easier to track. Season two was really good. Episode two of season 4 was even better. Do you know

there's this thing I I really like doing on YouTube. I don't know if you've heard of it. Liking and subscribing. I'm a big fan. I'm really interested to see if that makes any difference on the old algorithmy. >> I think you get a lot for your likes and subscribes as well. for anyone who wants to like and subscribe, your life is going to get like that much better. It's just going to >> you but in that order like like and subscribe. You cannot subscribe and then like you have to >> I think I'm assuming YouTube just doesn't give a shit about that and >> I guess if you if you've already subscribed then you've got a lot of liking to do.

>> They already like it to be honest with you. I don't want to play the game. But from now on I will say like and subscribe it like 25 times which I'm not going to play the game. I'm I'm above that. You don't need, you know, when you're me and you're happy with like the absolute dregs of society. Well, yeah. Okay. But that is true. Then it doesn't matter who comes and listens. However, there are some people I don't like and I would really prefer they didn't listen if they ever do. >> So, I should put >> That's an interesting avenue that you are open to here.

>> That's the meat of it. >> Yeah. >> That meat of it of the >> Come back next week to hear Jaime's least favorite people. It's Yeah. Right. Good time to end. See you. Okay. Good. Discord.