would any of that shit I mean the solution just don't show anybody your models and then you you will immediately um remove any of that oh I don't want to try this because of that >> it's probably one of my biggest or most influential pieces that I did ever >> and I hate it so much that it's on the back of my cabinet um but I didn't cognitively register it if that makes sense. So, there's this imagine an invisible wall, okay? And that wall's in my fucking painting room, but I didn't know that wall was there.

But that wall was there from when I put that model down. And now I've speaking about it and I've just realized that actually all the only blocker that I have here is that I need to repaint the whole model. >> Do you though? >> Like, oh, everyone's got to do a Squad of Ultram man. That's great. But no, there wasn't. So, so it was fun and it was uh it was nice cuz I didn't have to go through all of that like uh uh yeah, like questioning what's going to look the best. But >> Mini Matters, a miniature painting podcast. >> Fuck yeah. It's good to be back, boys. I I have to say I really enjoyed last week's um depression that I had. you know, it it was exactly what I needed, I think, to feel to feel that, you know, that come down as it were. For anybody who doesn't listen, I suggest you go back and listen to the last 50 episodes that we've got, maybe. And also, if you could back our patron, um, but if I keep saying it, I will I will will it into um, existence. So, hold on a minute. Say something. Cool. Right, we're back. I can't remember if you said

anything. Pro probably not. But um I just I had a a shower when my when you said I'm ready. I showered. >> So yeah, cuz >> your body >> my whole body and >> head to toe. You're quite efficient with your shower. >> Well, it was a it was a quick one. I mean it was a 7-minute shower and look anyway that's not the point. Um it got me to thinking. Okay. When I was I do a lot of I do all my thinking in fact in the shower. It's the only time I have anything to do, which isn't what everything else is, right? And >> I remember that I forgot that we had a segment >> that I came up with another idea, right?

And it was amazing. I don't think I wrote it down. Um, but I was thinking last week's episode, which if you haven't listened to any of them, you should go back and listen to the last 10. Like and subscribe and back on Patreon. Right. >> Smooth. >> Yeah. But it lost me much of thought. So last week I >> was thinking about something and you came up with a new segment or >> No, no, that I forgot that. No, it was last week I said how I um I realized that I was influenced by expectations. Okay. So I said I motherfucking said I said that when I'm I do things differently because I'm worried about what people think.

>> But but I realized it can't be true for me. It it's I think there's a facet of it, right? Because I was going through these things, right? Oh, it can be true. Okay, fine. It's not from embarrassment was what I was going to say that it's it's in no way embarrassment. So, if you paint like picture yourselves and and all the uh se we officially have seven listeners now. >> I mean, I'm I'm I'm doubting if interject to not stop this flow, but I'm really amazed that There was no bullshit introduction. It was like straight to the point.

>> Well, it's cuz I just came out the shower, right? >> That's your straight to the point. You thought that was the were >> I mean, it it was definitely straight to the point considering we we didn't spend 30 minutes talking about >> dicks or or whatever. >> We're still in that segment though, aren't there? We can we can still random. >> I vowed last week I run a tight ship here, okay? And I'm I'm not about mediocre podcasts. We We are the best podcast in the world except that we're shit, but what was I talking about? So I It doesn't come from embarrassment.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. And I don't think anybody's comes from embarrassment. I don't think anybody uploads an image or they're worried to do something or try something because they're scared of being embarrassed. I I think >> from the seven listeners, let us know. >> That's a good point. Where where if it's not embarrassment, where can it come from? >> Exactly. >> Yeah. Isn't embar I mean it's a deep question of like what is embarrassment? What does that actually mean? >> And that's where my shower went to, right? Um so and this was all in the six minutes, right? Sharpen. There you go.

Oh, now so like I was trying to remember a moment in my life when I was embarrassed. Okay. Mhm. >> And the only one I can think of in living memory was when I said that thing in the in the in the event, the GW podcast. I can't even remember what I said, right? But I remember thinking like, why do those words come out of my mouth? It was it was like >> it was something to do with assen blowjob or something. >> Yeah. But embarrassment has a lot of degrees and and it's not the same. >> Go on. So embarrassment can be that that thing in a moment where you do something and it's like oh fuck or or you I don't know fall down you know in front of people or or you know you know whatever >> shit yourself on the tube.

>> Yeah I was thinking about this but it's a bit extreme but yeah >> you would I would be embarrassed maybe for you >> but I'd be embarrassed more for them than for myself that I've put them and made them feel awkward. Yeah, I mean a normal person not you. But if if you if you have something that you are not uh completely happy with and you upload it, it's not the same type of embarrassment because it's not something that you it happens. It's an embarrassment of not meeting expectations and those expectations are in your head, not in their head. But you are you are >> would you putting those expectations in their head? Would you use a different word then? Is it disappointment is probably better, right?

>> I mean, I don't know. Um, >> is it sadness? Is it what what is it like just yourself? >> I I do I do think that embarrassment is a little bit >> It's fitting, >> but it's not the same type of embarrassment. It's not a situation embarrassment. It's like a I'm not as good as embarrassment. >> And that makes up my thing. So, that's I wasn't I hadn't put my nail on it yet, right? But that was where I was thinking of taking it because it can't be embarrassment of I feel shame for something that's happened, right? It's much and then I think it is >> I want to be perceived as this.

>> I want you to see what I see in my head. >> Of course, >> that's what I think it is on how I want this paint job to be, but I can't get that out because I'm not good enough yet. >> Yeah. You want to be understood. Maybe that's what it is, which is which is is like a cousin of embarrassment, but not quite the same. It's >> So, yeah, >> it's it's Yeah, >> that was my >> Yeah, maybe embarrassment is not the the perfect word, but I I see >> you know what I mean. >> You're Yeah, >> Martin, what you feeling >> on this subject?

>> Yes, correct. >> Oh, thanks. Uh, no, it's a it's a good question of of like >> like kind of what are now saying that there's different kinds of embarrassment. I think it's I was just trying to imagine like a situation where for whatever reason uh it's like a group of people have been convinced that I can sing really well and then we go do karaoke and then I have to like perform. That would be embarrassing. >> That would be like embarrassing to do. But it wouldn't be embarrassing at all if if no one expected anything of me. So it's still like we've been talking about it's still like 100% to do with expectations I think.

>> Yeah. Because it's that it's it's you thinking that they expect from you. It's not the fact that they expect or not expect it doesn't influence you. >> Is what you think. Yeah. What you think that they will expect >> and but that's the whole thing of embarrassment as well cuz at its crutch at the the heart of embarrassment is what you think they will think, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So like >> Yeah. And you and we we do that all the time. we project things that we think onto others and we assume what they think and we I think about this a lot with with um >> racism.

>> Let's say you do something that is actually slightly embarrassing or maybe you're like at a party with someone and you mistakenly called them by a different name or something and sometimes I I do this little thing where I'm like would I remember if someone else did that? If someone else made that mistake that if someone else did something and they thought they were embarrassing I probably just forget it immediately. So the reverse is probably true >> unless they >> the same way I rarely see shit on Instagram and think I thought this person was pretty good but this is garbage.

>> That's that's very rarely the case >> or Yeah. What you actually tend to think is that shit now. And but it's not embarrassing. It's just >> they're just you know they've let themselves go like that's that's fine if they if they want to. >> But >> yeah, I I I agree. Um, and I think that it's weird though, honestly. Like, why the fuck would any of that shit I mean the solution just don't show anybody your models and then you you will immediately um remove any of that, oh, I don't want to try this because of that.

>> Well, there's also embarrassment on yourself that that happens. It does happen. >> Like when your wife says, "I wasn't finished." And you're like, >> "No, no, no, no. Not that one then >> when when you when you realize you are not as good as you think >> that but that's not embarrassing. That's just a cold realization that you had higher expect. >> Well, yeah, I guess. But but it's still on the same realm because I I >> This is the Hold on. Hold on. Wait. You guys can't see this, right? But >> everyone would have just seen the fucking title just changed. the click of a button. Two buttons. I couldn't program it to do one, but uh now it says meat of it, even though we have a real meat of it, so I should probably put it back.

>> It's crazy. No, we can transition. >> Tapas again, right? >> Yeah, tapas. Tapos is good. Tapos episodes are shit. >> Who doesn't like tapas for dinner? Like, you show up to a restaurant, you get a little bit of everything. >> I actually really like tapas. I tried to go with Lucas um Chewy uh when he came and visited and we had it all. Yeah, it was all planned, right? Fucking great. It was Hold on, let me quickly change back to D of AD, man. Um, it was all planned and I was like, "Right, meet me here." And it was like fantastic with his German accent. Fantastic, Jamie.

I'll be there. Donovar. >> Uh, and then like half an hour before I Googled it just to check cuz it's in the middle of it. It's it's by Eden Plats and I was like, "Fuck, that's the center and you have to walk. There's no tube." I checked it was closed. I was like, "Look, dude, don't go there." And he was like, "No, it's totally fine." He was really, really on the phone call, right? He's the most chilled, happy guy I've spoken to in a long time on a phone. It was just like, "Look, I'm just walking through the city. It's fine. It's a beautiful city. I've been mugged twice." But that would have been good. Um, right back to me of it.

>> So, very quickly for the authorities, you happen to have been in Vienna just that one time when you were meeting Chewy. >> Correct. Because he invited me to Vienna. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. >> That's right. >> So people's pieces. Yes. They Is that real though? Are now? Have you ever done a piece in the last year or you Martin actually? You less because you won gold. Um but no, that's that could still count because it's single miniature. Have you done a model in the last like Yeah. recent future where you were literally embarrassed to upload it but you had to?

>> Yeah. >> Oh, good question. Yeah. Too quick, Arno. >> Yeah, Arno is very quick. He has a much >> every piece. >> No, it it's not that it happens every month, but it happens. >> Arnell's always so fucking to the point. Very, you're chill even when you're like when you're >> I don't want to waste yourself on explanations. >> What What's uh Do you want to say what that is? Is it like it's it's obviously box art that you didn't you were not >> No, I mean it happened many times and I'm not I've never uh stopped myself from talking about it. The the main example was the the or the ogre with a with a stripe of light that is looking through through a door.

>> The pedo the pedo I like to call him. >> Yeah. The crip this piece everyone loved it. I've seen versions like easily five or six versions of it. It's probably one of my biggest or most influential pieces that I did ever. >> And it I hate it so much that it's on the back of my cabinet. I I have the different cabinets and one of them where I have the unpainted Warhammer is on the back of the unpainted Warhammer cabinet.

>> That's good. >> Because I don't even want to see it. >> Then sell it then. What? >> I don't want to sell it because then I'm giving that shit to someone. Oh, right. Right. >> It's so bad that I can't I refuse to. >> You will not accept money for it. That's you wouldn't sell your own excrement because it's an insult to them. That's what that model is for you. >> Yeah. >> Give it to Albert. This is a test to see if he still listens to the show. >> Yeah. Give you love it. >> Um and I I really didn't want to to upload that piece. I I I did it just I forced myself to it. Like it's okay. It's just an exercise. Whatever. Some people may like it. Whatever.

>> And it was one of the first times my Instagram completely collapsed. Like I had messages everywhere. >> Uh and I I barely had any followers back then. And yeah, it was >> It makes me question your own like are you have you just been lucky this whole career? Right. or because the good the ones that everyone loves you hate and then the ones that you love the most people like not the same. >> It's it's it's established pattern. >> You know, it's funny cuz I mean there's obviously there's going to be loads of examples of if we can use the word art again or like c creativity in general, right? Where people have done a painting, a movie, a song, something where they're like everything else I've done is is me. That's the best shit I've done. And then this one thing is the crowd-pleaser, right?

>> And and you fucking hate it. I'm I'm I can't think of any great example of that, but I'm sure there must be loads. >> But other pretty common actually. >> Interesting. Well well now came and said me and Albert he brought a bit I don't know four or three whatever years ago. We went to his place actually. He didn't bring it. I now would never bring a piece. Right. >> Um and me and Albert were like oh shit that black looks tight. Looks really good. And I was like and nothing else nothing else on the model looks remotely the black's really good. He was like the black's the worst bit. The black was the easiest bit I think was actually what you said. Like the black wasn't even on my radar of asking you like whether he >> Yeah, it was probably probably a layer of of one color and then one highlight or something like something some some bullshit like this that it doesn't even it's not even worth mentioning and they are like, "Oh, the black." I've I've had that happen where people have said like, "I really like this bit." And I'm like, "That's not painted yet." >> That's the primer.

>> That's good. >> That's that happened to me as well with with my mom or with someone like that. >> That's good. I mean, it's a bit like when I show on now my models and he just laughs. >> That's laugh. >> I want to know in the uh >> He's laughing with you, not at you. >> Yeah. Or or crying. Crying inside >> situation. Situation. Yeah. >> Um, so in in in spite of this intro being 15 minutes, it doesn't feel like an intro, right? >> No, I mean we we are literally talking about painting >> from the very start.

That's absolutely insane. >> Celebrity. >> I can I can fire off some uh recent film reviews if someone wants bullshit. >> Holy shit. TV recommendation >> finally. >> I'm only one episode in now. I I gave it's called Future Man. Okay, hold on. I don't have a segment thing for this. I'm just going to take off the This is nonsegmented. No one cares. Future man. Now, I thought it was the worst TV show I've ever fucking scene in my life. Okay. For the first 5 minutes. >> Yeah. F U R T. F.

>> Oh. F U T U R E. >> So, the word. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. You You have frozen, Martin. I'm I'm impressed. >> He's back. You were frozen. >> You are frozen, >> but you were still talking. >> Oh, sorry about that. >> Yes. Is that glitch that you have in your You basically an X-Men, but you just free. Anyway, >> very strange. No, go ahead. Go ahead. You thought it was absolute trash. >> Worst the worst fucking thing I've ever seen in my life cuz cuz Netflix recommended it and I was like, "Oh, fuck. Recommend." Like, I never get recommendations. I probably do never see them. And um yeah, it was actually very funny. I I realized it was funny the moment. Um, should I give you the ba the first like 10 minutes?

>> I mean, >> I hate spoilers, so that's why I have to ask. >> Basically, >> just baseline. >> Yeah. Some some people teleporting um time travel into his house. Okay. And he's Midwank and he jizzes on the dude. Okay. That's that's the level of this kind of comedy. Now, >> trying to be like the boys. No, it's comedy and it's it's it's a bit more Adam Sandler comedy. Um like Happy Gilmore kind of in a modernish but really like that and it's very unusual to hear that now, right?

>> They're like fucking rip his balls off, kick him in the head, like all this like it knows it's a parody. It doesn't take itself seriously >> and it's shit but it's funny. I >> see. >> However, I don't think you can watch it. Anyway, that that was that. >> What is it? Netflix. >> Netflix. >> Ne T, >> right? Um, yeah. I So, how far down do we want to go? Let's do a Should we do Should we do something real? Should we do a real segment? So, let's do what's in the show.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. I mean, >> obviously intro. We've got an intro. We are in that intro. We don't have anything. I've got nothing. I haven't done would you rathers. I do have a new se ah the new segment. Hold on back to D over ADD man. Um the new segment is interesting fact of the day >> except it's the week. >> Yeah. >> And I will I will lay on you an amazingly pointless fact. Okay. >> That's my favorite.

>> Yeah. For later. Um we will have Dr. Lovebrush. We do have a real meat of it which I don't know what it is yet which is exciting. We do have the results in now for the fan >> what's it called? >> Uh faction feud. No. Yeah. Faction feud. >> Faction feud. So we had >> the community now. There was a bit of an uproar from the community. Um I could wait for him but I don't cuz he's gone. Arnell's gone. You see? Yeah. >> Right. Um, there was a bit of uproar that some of the questions might have been the same questions I used to ask some of the people in Monty. And I'm not saying that I was lazy. I'm not saying that >> cuz >> no one would say that.

>> Thank you. But there are new ones in there. >> Just didn't remove them. So, thank you everyone for doing that. And also, thank you for all the comments. I have to say I feel like the community is exploding right now. We've gone from six listeners >> to seven fucking listeners. >> And the difference is mindblowing. >> Insane. >> God damn. >> I can't tell the difference between the comment sections on our podcasts and literally Facebook. Like all of it's that many people talking >> six >> like our discord is just >> you know when there's a streaming of someone very popular and the and the chat is like a million times like per hour.

>> It's it's that >> you cannot even read. So >> I thought you were going to say that's not us cuz >> No, that is us literally. >> That's exactly. >> But there's only so many messages seven people can send. >> You send like 80% of them. So, it's still that that like non-stop rattling link and it's just gold all of it. >> What we could do is people are not on our >> and and literally the messages could be our tech like what we're saying. So, it makes it look like it's proper busy but it's just us. Also, I don't know where the fuck that would go in this new layout template. Um, however, I I am actually um like they are entertaining.

There's some dribble and shit, right, in the comments that we get like some lowest common denominator, you know, like boring as fuck, which I expect from our listeners because they're bland, right? Somehow I'm pointing you. Fuck's sake. These are good. >> You pointing to >> I don't know. I was pointing to the comments which makes no sense cuz they're on my screen to my left which >> it's even worse and nobody else can see it.

>> Fuck's sake. See, we're idiots and that's why you listen. Right. Anyway, um that's it. That's all we've got. We and and the factual feud. I don't have We're not doing that this episode. >> And small task master update. Like have you >> Oh shit. Yeah. Okay. Go for it. >> A little bit more with that. >> Me? >> Yeah. I've gotten a start on mine. >> Oh, no. I want to hear from Martin. >> Go for it. Sorry. >> Oh, that's my queue. Yeah, I I got a start on mine. I um I wanted to do nurglings because they're very small. Mhm.

>> And I thought as opposed to doing the same model as you guys, but with the least possible amount of effort like I did on the Kacan, I thought I'll actually maybe I can put just a tiny bit more effort on the models as long as they're very small. >> Mhm. >> Um some of the people uh can't remember. I think this was uh Mike himself is doing like a dreadnot and a guy >> for two models. >> Oh, he is. Fuck. Yeah, that's insane.

That's >> impressive. >> Um >> I guess he doesn't have a job or a life. >> He has both. >> That was way too when I see it. >> I don't love you. All right, Michael. That was that was that was needlessly defensive. Um >> needlessly. Yeah, but that's very impressive and I'm not doing that. But yeah, so I wanted to to maybe paint something like that where that actually takes minutes instead of seconds. So, >> well, I I actually was again thinking in the shower about this naked.

>> You would, wouldn't you? >> I people when I football used to shower with their shorts on which like you you they'd want to be part of the showers, but they didn't want to be butt naked anyway. >> I see. >> Yeah, they wear their shorts. in that. Yeah. >> Um it was weird. I used to have to I didn't have to. I mean I I wanted to but the showers in the Telegraph gym um and it's always weird to just like if you're in a football team, you know, you all get ch unchanged together and you all go into the showers together, right? So you're butt naked together, but it's weird when you're completely butt naked and then say your boss walks in butt naked and you just you weren't ready for that situation. Do you know what I mean?

I didn't You're like, "Oh shit. Hey mate. Hey, do we talk about work or are we just like both naked? Um, >> so yeah, that was weird. But um, where were we? Ah, mine. So I was in the shower. >> You were thinking about you were thinking in the shower. >> So I was thinking taskmaster is a bit of an evil thing. Okay. Because in itself, it's relaxed. You're not meant to take it seriously >> or rather that there's no rules. Take it as seriously as you want or or do not take it seriously. And last week you said that you wanted to quit painting, right? And I thought you were joking, but you were actually serious. Maybe >> um >> briefly. Yeah.

>> And then I thought Taskmasters is the thing that you can't not do as a presenter, right? So you had to do it. But then I was like actually that's quite good in a way because >> I hadn't painted in seven years and then the killer can came along and I painted. >> Yeah. >> And it forced me to paint even though I did it in two hours the day before. Blah blah blah. Right. It This ties so well with the meat of it that I'm struggling not to lay it on thick. Right now, >> I've I've changed the icon to meat of it. >> What if I told you let's let's play the hypothetical uh part of it that you don't have to worry about painting ever again. Like >> you that guilt of not painting >> goes away. You don't paint. You don't have to paint. You forget about painting whatsoever.

How would you feel? >> Mine. Martin, do you want to answer that one? >> Um, well, I mean, I guess you're saying like completely hypothetical that like that that creative anxiety and that Yeah. Well, that would be a good thing for sure. Um, >> creative. Sorry. >> Feel like it's sort of a trick question. Creative. I mean, I would >> Sorry. What? >> What? What's creative anxiety? >> Um, >> like fear of getting it wrong or >> um, that's a good question. For me, it's it's it's uh a lot of different things that will stand in the way of me enjoying this hobby uh, at various points. So, it will be most of the time it'll be that I'm doing not doing enough, >> which I think is something that I hear a lot of people say a lot. It's like I should >> so and so and so. So it's like just kind of of your constantly thinking I should do more, but you're not. It's away at you in your life.

>> And an interesting an interesting side note to that is like when I was working for games workshop, I was literally painting like 9 10 hours a day. >> Well, some days and then I and that was the only time where I could say no actually I can't paint more than this. That's that's the >> I couldn't possibly. Uh so that's all right. Uh but then now you know even uh yeah whenever there's like a spare hour um or days or whatever it's always like fuck I should be doing more and then the the whenever I am doing whatever I'm doing it's I should be doing something better or uh finding different areas of like ways to to get better practicing. I should try sculpting more. I should so on and so on. So that creates anxiety for like yeah just it's not as much motivation as just >> um yeah anxiety what what other word is there um I think >> pressure sure yeah yeah so it's like it's not enough and it's not good enough constantly

>> so to answer your question or now if I could just erase that feeling yeah that'd be great but only if like it would if it was actually gone if not if it was like oh well I give up, you know, that wouldn't be a good thing. >> So, interestingly, I've had all jobs that I hated. Okay, hated them. Not like fuck, but like shit, if you know what I mean. >> And only did I start enjoying the job when I quit the job. So, the day I was like, "Right, I'm leaving in a month." I felt such release.

>> Yeah. that I was like, "Oh, this job's not that bad." Like, now I know I'm not Now I see something like an alternative. I'm like, "Holy shit, horit." Um, now I didn't paint. I did paint for in those seven years. I did paint a bit, right? It just wasn't I wasn't painting if that I know, but I wasn't like doing how I considered painting. Um, and in theory I'm still not, but I'm painting a lot in my head now and basically not painting and not getting better at the things I want, but I am painting in my head more.

Um, and I want to paint. So those those years where I wasn't painting, honestly, I wasn't re I didn't really care that I wasn't painting. I was like I didn't want to, so I didn't do it. Every now and then I'd be like, "Oh, I'd like to do this diarama >> basically." And that was it. Um, so I lived that um thing that you >> I think I did. >> Yeah, I guess. I'm just thinking. Yeah, sorry.

>> What was so Arno? You've asked the question, you've got your answers. >> No, no, it's uh it's the question to it's discussion point. I feel like this hobby and most hobbies I guess, but this in particular or creative ones in particular, they come with a lot of negatives attached to the positives. And we hear all the time people struggling inside the hobby or for the hobby or because of the hobby. >> And I always think about this, how what's what's tying you to to the hobby? What is it stopping you from just being free and doing whatever you want?

>> And a lot of people have guilt in both ways if they don't do or if they do. So it's like a neverending source of pain for one side. of course uh always has good things. But >> I think >> and and sorry we we reached that point we when we were talking Jamie and I one day and he was saying something like I get um I get everything is dangerous like every hobby or every every um thing that I can get addicted to is dangerous >> but it's not but painting is not and and I asked him why painting is not dangerous. Why is the only one the only hobby that you are not afraid of getting obsessed with?

And he said obviously leave it for the cast and we didn't talk about it. So we that's the perfect moment for it. >> Yeah. >> So wait, what did I say? >> Listen to the podcast. Um uh what was it? Was someone listening? >> What did I say? >> Just now. What did he just literally just say? >> Oh, just now. Uh, you were saying that you you guys were talking. Fuck. You were talking.

>> You were talking. Do you want to pause it? You want to go back? >> We're back. I love this. Why? Why? Why? By >> No. Yeah. Why is this the one hobby? Yeah. Why is Why is painting the one thing? >> Oh, I remember now. I'm back. Locked in. Okay. Right. I must have said that when I didn't want to I was like other other stuff felt more important. >> Yes. But still applies because you are not painting. >> I am now though >> are you like task go back >> big time.

>> It's not it's not that you are not doing some brush strokes here and there is that you get obsessed with magic you get obsessed with elen ring. You get obsessed with other things. Right. >> Yes. >> Very easily. But you know why? >> Because they are easy. >> Yeah. >> And and the question is that why is not and and that it's because it's difficult. But then it's like and my question was coming from this from this other question which is if you find it so difficult that it's not bringing you pleasure why are you why are you >> and now I've got an analogist for you.

Okay. You know, why why do you not let it go and just do the things that you really enjoy instead of >> just wanting to paint, >> but you don't, but you want to paint, but you don't. You know what I mean? >> I really really like sex, okay? Like, I'm a huge fan of sex and I I I'm an advocate for it. I think people should do it. >> Um, in general, now I've spent 15 years trying to get sex, okay? Every day I'm trying to get sex from my wife, okay? And I'm putting in a lot of ground work.

I had kids with her for fuck's sake, just so I could have sex, okay? And to keep her happy. Um, and then if I keep her happy, I have more sex, right? But I never get it, okay? But I'm always trying to get it. And I know because I know I love it, right? So, I'm I'm in my mind, no matter how shit and annoying she is, I know that she's the person I can't the only person I can get sex from, right? Um because I don't like the other side of things, right? So, I have to keep I have no choice. I have to keep persevering to try and make her not hate my guts enough to let me have sex with her. And it's the same with a hobby, in my opinion. I don't I don't think it is up for me.

>> Mostly mostly mostly because if if your wife says yes, >> it's done. >> One. Yeah. And then the next day I'm going to want it again. I guarantee. >> And if she if she says yes, it's done. Right. It doesn't depend on you. Uh in in sex, you are not the one who's stopping you. But in painting, you are the one who's stopping you. And that's where the analogy is perfect because painting is like sex with a wife or a girlfriend or or a what are they called? Um partner >> boyfriend.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um and I'm I know I remember what sex was like when we first got together. It was this liberating, free fun thing. Okay, I'm not saying sex isn't fun now. It's much more transactional now. Like painting used to be that way. Hugely easy to get. I'd learn a lot. I could do a lot. I could challenge myself and I'd always get that sex back. So I do a model and that's equivalent to one sex, let's say. Okay. Or or or or completing one part of that model. And it's I'm married to to painting. That's it. That's the That's where the analogy actually is that I love it and I remember how good it used to be and I want to get that back, but I fucking I'm struggling. But I've so to go to go to why I'm not painting.

I'm I struggle. I want to just I want to sit down and do it. I want I want to have two or three hours to do it. And >> what happens is, which is the sad thing is it's an excuse. Okay. >> It feels like I pushed some button and and just >> I'm working it out as I go. But this is true, right? >> Short circuit. Yeah. >> When let's say I want to do something badly, okay? And I do want to do it. I'll make it happen. Elden Ring, I'd fucking play it all day long, right? Um, Magic cards, buying more than I should have. Okay.

And then and then that's like this the buying. So that's easy. But painting, I really want to paint, but I can't just sit down for 20 minutes cuz I've got all this work to do. Well, yes, >> but it's there's other things are easy. So there's you're breaking that seal really. Really, the next taskmaster should fucking be paint 15 minutes a day and that should be the task. >> We did that. We We did one and you liked it. Yeah. >> Is that It's that motherfucking diff. I know this. Right.

The >> I'm I'm a little I feel like we're we're slightly losing the headline now. Well, was there a question at the start of this or is it just why it's >> The question is how how would you feel if you let go? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, no, we answered that. We have we've we've we've we've now into the flow. I don't know if you did mine, but I have. >> Sorry. You >> I'm married to painting. It's my It's my fucking wife. >> I I get I get that. I I think what I realized for me, it's a bit harsh, but it's like self realization and self um fulfillment is like a big part of my life. Maybe an big part, but it's just kind of maybe it's like a generational thing, but like I want to do what I want to do and I've attached painting to that and and like this hobby so much. which has become such a part of my identity and I've sort of decided that this is my creative outlet like this is the thing that I do and

I've also decided that I'm I have a potential to be good at it and if I don't if I'm not and if I don't do it I'm nothing. >> I think that's to put a very fine point to it that's pretty much how I feel. It's like if I just stop doing this what else do I have? Jesus, that is brutal. >> Yeah, I know. It's It's hard, but it's a little bit. It's a little bit that like that. Like that is >> the thing that I do. That's my hobby. And sometimes I don't know if I enjoy it every time I do like you were talking about when you were painting that Stormcast and you really enjoyed like every brush stroke or now you were saying like this is fucking great >> and I thought I can't really remember the last time I felt like that. and Martin. That's >> go on now. No, I'll write that down.

Okay. Well, that that's what I felt >> with with motherfucking Elder Project and all the other models I was painting, right? I knew I was I was doing it, but I wasn't in. So, that's that's the perfect analogy with the wife. You're there. You've got two kids. >> You you're amicable, but you don't love each other. You're both just there, right? Because you you've always been there. You want to raise a child, blah blah blah. You know, you still love it. and being my wife, you know, you still love her, but it's different from being in love and loving, if that makes sense. >> That does make sense. It does make sense. And >> it's a difference of commitment. Yeah.

No, it's a good analogy actually. It is something that like what I'm describing isn't necessarily choosing it every day as a brand new exciting thing, but committing to kind of it doing it long term. But it is weird that like unlike marriage, no one else depends on it at all >> except your other part of your body, your soul that that needs this thing. That's the thing. And you're owing it to yourself, right? >> My sense of self that's separated from like my mood and what I feel like doing.

Yeah. >> And and the reason why I got excited >> when I said the Elder Project, it's a new chair. It's quite bouncy. um was how fucking restrictive I found it. >> Right. And that was why I stopped hating. And that's why I'm I'm really trying to push to this like arty farty way of painting where it's free. And the irony is it's not fucking free. I've learned, okay, cuz it's so hard to do, >> but it's free in that >> you I'm the one making the rules as it were rather than me trying to follow this this thing. And I don't know if that if that's something that you like I know you know you've said it right you're trying to go this more like a different route than you've been doing the last 20 years or 25 years. Um >> yeah or not it's not so much a different route as uh not uh allowing myself to just do >> uh what I've done in the past like kind of check myself when I feel like something is being too uh formulaic or seems too obvious and if there's a a way where I can get better at it. But yeah,

this is basically what you said. >> Yeah. And and and what I so I was kind of sold my I sold myself this lie, right? That if I just stop painting heavy metal, I can be I can just do stuff easily and arty and expressive and fucking hell that is so wrong. Like it's it's it's heavy metal for me. Maybe because that's all I've always done. That's it should be relaxing, but it's not relaxing because it's not challenging.

>> But it should be relaxing because I can do it. I could fucking sit down now and paint a warlock in an heavy metal style and it would look good. You know, if that's what you're trying to get, but because I don't want that, it's not good. And actually trying to paint like it's hard >> trying to do it's just fucking hard. And and that's why I'm I'm not sitting down so readily. Oh, now thank you very much. because it I I I don't have a solution in my head already. >> I sit down and I'll I'll spend 25 minutes cleaning pots or some shit cuz I'm trying to avoid doing the painting.

And then when I'm finally ready to paint, it's fucking 11:30. My eyes are dead and I've I've already fallen asleep once or twice with the kid cuz they've woken up. Um and I just don't know how to I don't know how to resolve it. what I'm doing now painting wise I can do. I'm doing Eminem but it's not like your Eminem are now. It's it's basically just it's >> that's just painting. >> So how do I sit down at the table and paint? That's the question. Or all of us. Well, I I can kind of answer that because I think uh um I was speaking to someone else about this and they have a similar situation with work and kids and not finding a lot of time to paint. And I basically just said like, well, any painting is better than no painting. If I mean, if if that's what you want, not for anyone else, not for my re my my sake. Uh like don't don't do it because I tell you to. If you want to get some painting done at all, if 20 minutes or 30 minutes of like that heavy metal edge

highlight shit is if that's what you feel comfortable doing in the moment, then do that. >> I I think for me to be able to sit down and paint, I have to already know how to resolve that thing or have 2, three hours to to know that I can experiment and and explore. >> But if you think you're comfortable with that style and if you've got um Maybe even like you you know you you've done it before then that should be resolved that should be good to go right. >> Yeah. But it wasn't like the thing that I I mean this isn't we don't need I mean a therapy session.

Every episode's a therapy session really. every fucking episode is >> but it's it so I'm married okay to the thing >> you've mentioned yeah >> and the first model I did we had an argument and then Arnell came in who's the car couple's therapist >> counselor yeah >> right and was like look chill out what you're doing is fine carry on what you're doing right and I did and the model turned Okay, I remember. Yeah, I remember. Okay, I remember now. Right. And then this model is the council sessions for today for this model.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> And I I remember what happened. So this might be add. I don't know. You tell me. First model painted light source this way. Okay. Second model painted without checking the light model should be this way. But I actually did the light source around the wrong way. Okay. Looks bad from this side. and and I left it like that. I knew that I had to repaint that whole model. Um, but I didn't cognitively register it, if that makes sense. So, there's this imagine an invisible wall, okay? And that wall's in my fucking painting room, but I didn't know that wall was there, but that wall was there from when I put that model down. And now I've speaking about it and I've just realized >> that actually all the only blocker that I have here is that I need to repaint the whole model. Do you though?

>> Forget the semantics of it. Like maybe I I need to sit down and realize that I need to change the light source. >> Do you though? >> It looks pretty bad. Okay, I see what you're saying here. >> Just don't worry and paint it. Yeah, >> it's your own rules. It's your own rules. If you want to put two light sources, you put two fucking light sources. >> Oh, you're saying it could be another light source. >> Wow, that's crazy. You are a god in their world. So you can change reality as you want.

>> Things they they never must be in a way. They can be anything you want. And if you want to backtrack and and you did something wrong and then you want to justify it in somewhere, you fucking do it because who's going to tell you no? Nobody. So that's the that's what the freedom that you are speaking of is you can do the things that you are doing and not feel wrong about it. You know I mean it's interesting it's a very with that with that basis you can't make a mistake.

What is a mistake? There he is. Yeah. Okay. Fine. >> While everything while everything is obviously cohesive. So for example, if you have two two light sources, the two light sources should reflect on the base. But you can't. >> Yeah. >> It's not I it will be much easier to do it on the base than on the models. So why not? >> Well, okay. So the core point was if you're blocked, try and unblock yourself. I don't know if you guys get that. If you've got something that you've not working out to resolve, you will it will be harder for you to sit down than if you just know. Yeah, >> definitely.

>> Yeah, makes sense cuz that's what I have as well. >> I'll go back to the original point of all this if you don't know me. Even if I I didn't I I don't want to go too deep because this can get to a really intense thing but you both said the same basically that you are married to it that >> and it's defeating the purpose of my question actually >> because I'm what I'm saying is but you are not let's put in in the >> in the hypothetical that you are not married to that hobby.

>> Well, I I temporarily broke up and we weren't I wasn't married for seven years. >> Um, was it great? I mean, it just felt like any other day really. I was just getting on and doing other shit, right? I didn't miss it. I wasn't like, "Oh shit, I'm not painting today." I was just like, "I'm not I'm not I don't care. Like, I'm happy. I'll go to Monty. I'll eat some fucking food and laugh with everyone." Um, okay. No, we were on a break cuz then I'd see diioamas. I'd be like, "Fuck, I'd love to do that." Um, but then for the time that it wasn't, it was nice. But I think it's cuz you set yourself challenges and that's what it is. You know, you're like, I want to do this thing. You you thought about this idea two, four, five, eight years ago and you still have some weird responsibility. So, I mean, the answer will always be if you could just magically turn off any desire and you don't miss it, then you'd do that, wouldn't you? Because then >> No, but that's not what I'm asking.

>> Ah, because uh to be fair, I'm my I'm trying to to get something. Um so if if we say let go in the sense I always feel that we all have some kind of resistance to to stopping something that it hurts us right if we we follow that marriage um analogy if if you if you are you are unhappy with in that marriage you are uh reluctant to stop it and to just do something else right because you are committed to it because of uh fear of of or or not fear but disappointment in yourself or from not making it work or whatever it is.

Um, and I think the same happens in in painting that we are we are reluctant to let it go. And I see it many times, but I don't think but I think it's easy to resent it in if you don't let it go without the good reason. And and that's just pure hypothetical, but the the best outcome would be to try to let it go and then realize that you don't want to. And then it's like trying to to quit quit with your woman or with your partner and then realizing, oh fuck, I did a huge mistake. I should go back or things like that.

Um, the trouble is you would only stop if you really if it was really causing you like well I guess it's like the job thing. My analogy of the job not analogy it was real. As soon as I quit I was like oh shit actually this isn't that bad. >> Um so my >> or when you are when you are on a trip and you are hating the trip and then when it's over it's like you remember it like the best trip in the world. It's like, well, yeah, you lost the opportunity to to really have fun. I I just think that I see it so often that this hobby creates this weird thing, this weird pressure of painting and people is guilty. It feels guilty about not painting and I always think why why are you guilty of not painting?

I don't get it. I that's why I I always ask uh this question. >> You're talking about the guilt of not painting enough. the would the this is one this is one that we see so often >> that people is guilty of not painting and then my my follow-up question in my in my own head is then don't right if you are if you if you feel guilty because you're not painting enough but because you don't want to paint uh more >> right >> don't don't paint and and then what happens >> you create resistance to that and then you want to paint actively or then you're of you feel free that you don't have to paint more and that's what I'm I'm trying >> but for everyone who listens doing this exercise >> seven yeah the masses >> uh that if someone experienced this uh at any point if you if you do this hypothetical exercise of of letting it

go because I don't want people to letting go really. But if you do that exercise, you feel free. You feel happy that you are free of the bound of uh painting or you are creating a resistance of no no fuck I I want to paint. I'm >> I don't want to let it go. I don't want to lose it. >> Where do you sit on that mind? I mean, I think um I've always said that it's easier not to do something and whatever explanation you make up for not doing something.

Um there is it's not I'm not talking about laziness, but there is something to like avoiding things, procrastinating, um being uh >> I don't think it's >> Yeah. that kind of absence of doing something whether it's I mean everyone will say this who's um training like going to the gym going for a run whatever it is it's like it's always easier to just not do that and the resistance to it the the the thing that motivates you to do it might be a very it might be easy for you to get there or it might be really hard but yeah I don't know when it comes to to sitting down and doing hobby it's like I Yes.

Um, I guess there's always the question of what do you do instead? Like what is it you're kind of filling that time with instead? Cuz I think for a lot of people they they want to make time like Jamie is saying from, you know, when they've they've put their kids to sleep, they've done >> the job, whatever it is. >> But but there will always be things. I mean, I >> painting. See, so there's all there's a lot of things and there's a lot of easier things as well which is you know uh it's why painting that's my question why painting because it's the one that you know because you really like it >> can't be that can it sorry >> I don't know I mean I'm literally asking questions to yeah >> painting can't ever be cuz what you know because another analogy you go to a casino you have €100 you leave with five grand the first time you ever go, you have this like super thing. I'm going to love casinos. And then you lose that five grand over the next 5 months, whatever

in the casino. Um, painting feels a bit like that. You start and if you're half decent, you realize, oh shit, this is fun. I'm quite good. I'm not I'm just quite good to where I thought I would be. So, it's fun. And you start painting and it's still fun. And it's fun for the next few years cuz you're just not We We spoke about it roughly. you've just not got that like dire crippling fear and expectation that you've put on yourself. And then as you start getting better and start learning more, you realize you're not as good as you thought you were. And then that's where that switch happens, I think. So I think you you you have positive connotations. It's like being a heroin addict as well. you know, you're always chasing that same fucking thing that you had early doors, but you just can't get there or or rather the the scale of it is you need to be so much or put so much more effort in from the start. I I think exactly and I think that brings up an important question uh which is a little bit connected to what our now what you're saying is like if you don't

really feel like painting then stop or allow yourself to to stop or to even resist it. I think it's important to sometimes to consider why you do the things you do just any anything in life. But with this hobby, um I know people who well I mean we our friend Jason's a good example. Like I it's been a while since I saw him paint anything. The thing he wants to do is convert space marines pretty much and sculpt things. Uh and he's really fucking good at it. Um, I'm not seeing he does. It's not only converting space marines, but I I love the kind of laser focus towards this is what I feel like doing >> and it gives me uh creative outlet, a sense of satisfaction, something to keep getting better at. Um, all of that stuff. And there's very little in the way of I should do this. I got to I got to get better at that. Oh, I need to do I don't I'm not sensing that kind of stress and anxiety. And I'm um that really inspires me cuz that can be anything. And if you

if if it turns out that the thing you want to do, as vague as it is, is just get better at painting, then maybe uh try to have a long-term goal with that instead of constantly going, "Fuck, I need to spend more time." like try to think of something you want to get better at over the next year or um >> you mean bas basic quantifiables basically like clear >> in my in my case something like this happened like well I I came into the industry not as a painter I started sculpting I I did a yeah I did a sculpting workshop I started uh sculpting bigger things actually and and they gave me the choice to scot small scale or or large scale and I choose large scale because I thought yeah I don't I don't give a shit about the small scale which big big mistake um but at at this at that point I was not

painting or or barely like I was playing or hammer but you know like any other player out there and I started scotting I had a few I did a few scopes very obviously sleep really bad and then I at the same time I started painting and I started painting better and my my mind was not like I have to be a sculpture and I have to be you know it was oh I'm having more fun painting and I'm developing more in painting. So I naturally stopped sculpting as as much and which I didn't do as much but and then I kept improving my painting and and now I am a painter but >> this >> yes and I want to sculpt but what if in the next 5 years I feel like I want to sculpt more and and I stop painting a little a little bit more that then this will happen and if this is what is that resistance to no but I have

to keep painting because you know then but and and I do have this in my head as well but you've achieved >> I use this word >> yeah but you >> now >> yeah but what I mean is I have unfinished business with painting I have a I have a great amount of excitement >> and I I do it with with sculpture >> I have huge infinish business with sculpture >> so soon you will go. Yeah, but that that's it's the same like I staying with right now I can only talk about for right now, not when I quit cuz when I quit I was I was yeah like I didn't have any goals, right? I had no desire to get better. I was like I did that as which is the best fucking model in the world and I was like do you know what I've sort of I realized maybe it would coincide with that I'd kind of achieved what I wanted to. I I produced a model that I didn't think I could.

>> Um, even though it was cheating and Alfonso helped me and it doesn't feel like it was me, blah blah blah. That aside, now I've got these I've got this excitement in me. It's there. I can feel it. And and maybe anxiety cuz I'm not painting more, but I don't think I do. I don't That's not why I'm not painting right now because I it's been like what a day and a half since I've not painted. So, I am painting. I just haven't fucking painted recently. I mean, a recent Anyway, I I I've got that excitement and I want to to act on it. And that's why I don't want to give up painting. And if I think about quitting painting, I'm like, well, I don't fucking want to quit painting. I want to I want I want to do this thing.

>> That's that's what what I wanted to like the question went for that, right? I wanted that feeling to come and say, "No, I fucking don't want to quit painting." And maybe maybe that doesn't happen, but but if it happens, it's like I I I hope that it comes with a stronger desire to to paint because it's like someone is trying to take this away from you in this case, >> right? Oh, right. Oh. Oh, fuck. No, I would I would be very I mean, if someone stole my like hobby room and all my paints and my brushes, I'd be fuming. But then the irony is I would paint more.

I would probably find a way to paint. >> I know. That's that's my point. >> How weird. >> If that's that resistance comes, then great. Amazing. >> I have too easy. So, you're basically saying if I had a wife and I was sleeping with her every day, I wouldn't want to sleep with her anymore cuz I'd be getting it every day. >> So, that's what that's what this whole analogy is for basically. I see what you've got. >> I don't I don't really need analogies for everything. Oh shit, that's clever. My life is too easy. That's that's when it comes to painting.

I don't know. I don't know if this is true. Fuck. >> Yeah, that's that's definitely where we ended up. I'm I'm happy you eventually got there. Life is too easy. >> Oh shit, that's crazy. >> I mean, I do believe that life is too easy for you. That I believe 100 million%. life. Like life is just an amazing like yesterday I was reminiscing about my first job and I felt happiness, sadness, the whole nostalgia thing. But I feel it so strongly and it makes me feel so happy that I'm able to feel that like I'd love to go back there. Not even go back. I love remembering what that was that time. I don't want to be there again or anything.

Nah, not not really. And then I think like just it's it's fucking brilliant. I know how well that's actually that's a good >> slightly slightly good uh well comparable to uh what the hobby used to be for me. Uh I think about that a lot when I was just getting into it and how like easy it was um with respect to uh to pressure and expectations and all that. And I thought about like what what was it, you know, what was it I was drawn to and what did I want to do then and why?

And it's it's kind of impossible to recreate, you know, it it actually is this idea of just like do whatever you want and don't care what anyone thinks. Just kind of pisses me off when people say that >> cuz it's like >> it's not that easy. It can't be. >> It's not easy. It's not easy at all. >> It's not easy at all. I think it can be done in a way. It's a bit it's a different way, but I I always have ups and downs and I always it's I think it's inevitable and allowing yourself to be on the on the down as well as on the up. you know that if if you will love uh our craft um as and as I do I I always I'm always optimistic in the back of my head that I will go back to the to the ups. So I'm not worried about the down because it's like yeah okay um I'm really not feeling painting. Sometimes I just do the bare

minimum of with my pieces and just because it's work and I do I do not even want to think about painting something for myself ever. Like Warhammer, not a chance. Um comic stuff, not a chance. But then some some other times when I'm when I feel tired of feeling like this and and this is actually the exact way I feel when I when I'm on the low. I feel tired of being on the low. It's like fuck that. I mean, I'm exhausted of being in this shit hole >> and and I and then I try and I always do the same and it's try to go back with the to the to the source of happiness.

And there's a few things that that I always use for that. One is paint painting pretty ladies faces. That always works for me. I I really enjoy it. I I guess because I do it so often, I'm so somewhat good at it and and it works because then I I like myself when I do that. When when I paint a face and it looks good, it's like, yeah, fuck. That's that's what I'm talking about. And then when I'm not feeling big stuff like big sculptures or parts, I go to Warhammer. And then I obsess over space marines, over uh the lore, and I do a u an army that maybe I will sell at some point, but it happens many times. For example, um the last one I started was um Emperor's Children. I was in a low as

well. I was not feeling anything. and the emperor's children came up and yeah I obsessed over it. I started designing a paint job. So I started um building them and all these things rised me to the to the up and then I I left it like it's probably the my >> but but that was the way to lift me up just doing that little project that I knew it wouldn't it probably wouldn't go far. Maybe in the in the future I will pick it up again.

>> But it was the same the sorry it was the same way I used to do it when I was a kid. The first thing I always did was buying the codeex buying the codeex reading the pages looking at the heavy metal. I did this countless hours and then planning my first units. I usually plan two units in a headquarter and then I go I go from there. this this method I used it since I was a kid and and it works. It still works. >> But so I'm curious to see what Martin has to say about it as cuz my initial reaction is when it's your job. you've you've had to build up these things that mean that you know how you you've got that security like uh blanket as it were if you're a kid like you you know how to do something right for example um let's say maybe football or something that's a hobby but I've done it so many times that even when it's bad I've built up enough confidence in myself to say

okay I know I'm going to enjoy I know I'm going to be better next time or something right whereas with painting I feel possibly I don't have that same buffer to say okay I'm struggling with this thing but I know that I'm good enough or I know that I'll be able to resolve something like Albert says it when he does his bases right for every of the sword he's like fuck the base is harder than I anticipated he always adds extra time to do it but he always says I know that even though I'm going to struggle for four days 5 days and I'll repaint it like five times don't fact me on that it's not lielist right >> but I'm not talking about is actually I'm not talking about difficulty.

I I'm talking about not wanting like not not being hyped about it, not caring at all about it. >> Hobby Mojo. >> Yeah. It's like I don't I don't even want to hear about miniatures and this happens >> and then and then what what you use to get back is Warhammer or painting lady faces is what you were saying. >> But hobby like pure hobby. >> No. No stakes, no job, no nothing. Just p your hobby and try to feel it like I used to >> uh in a you know, yeah, the best way to to explain is like obsessing over an army that will probably end up in my drawer. And and I know this because it happened many times, but it still >> brings me joy when I when I plan a new army in my head and I plan the color scheme and I paint one space marine or two. Yeah.

>> And then I I stop the army, but >> it stills bring me joy and it brings me hype and it lets me do other stuff, you know? It's it's like a way to lift me up from that fucking >> pit of despair, if you know what I mean. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm actually the same. Good. >> Um I've I've also uh started a few random army projects and I I know exactly what you mean with obsessing. Um I've had times where I can really tell myself just like deep diving into a codeex and doing army lists. And it's uh and as you say, it's exactly what I did 20 years ago with a a new project. It's just then it was obviously not aside from anything else that was the hobby and now it's just kind of a conscious like fine I'll have ice cream for dinner this time and then I'll get back to more nutritious hobby tomorrow. Um, I think maybe I'm a little more

like cynical than you with that stuff because it it it almost like literally feels like wasting time. Like I've given up and I'm just like fuck it. I'll just do this cuz I can't I can't do anything proper. I can't do anything real. I'll just focus on this for a while. >> I I skip that part. But I said this when when I'm tired of feeling like this, but the period of being on the low can be long, can be months. >> And when I'm on the low, I don't paint or do anything related to painting other than just the minimum to survive.

>> And I >> Yeah, because you actually have to do it for work. So it's hard for people probably to notice your lows as being unproductive. But I can see why it would feel like that to you. But but you know I instead of thinking and this is on the on the head mostly instead of thinking about painting I think about video games. I think about I think about and I let myself >> think about those things and forget for a for a moment about painting because this will >> come back if it has to. And this is an interesting thing about experience as well that I've thought a lot about with um people that are newer to the hobby might might be that they started last year or 5 years ago but whatever it is is like having done it for so many years you notice these kinds of patterns uh which you might not do even after a couple of years of being into it. So, like I can now probably trust like you were just saying. I think I can trust >> that I will come back to it even when I'm completely bored and when I have

those really low points like I've had for a few weeks. I've just felt like briefly I felt like I'm fucking done with this. I don't want to paint anymore. I'm just not enjoying it. um which which is like kind of the the the the lowest very point of the lowest like um self-doubt and self-deprecation where it's like I I'm whatever I do just is never good so I'll just not do it and then I don't have to feel like shit. But yeah, the the the um the lows will be less dramatic when you've had them a few times and you know that you'll come back and you'll do at least things that you enjoy. At least you'll enjoy it if it's not uh good ever again.

>> I've not been painting long enough. If I actually do my timeline, I've been painting about 2 years, I think. Two and a half years. >> I don't get your timeline sometimes cuz you you still sometimes say you haven't painted in six years, which you clearly have. But also the whole Eldar project is like >> well the project only started um >> 6 years ago, 5 years ago. >> So it started when you stopped painting. >> Yeah. Right. There you go. >> That makes sense. So what's talking about like fucking >> when did you start the hobby? Well, like when is your actual starting point?

>> Um save it for the cast probably. Hey Hey. >> Um, now we >> I know you're uh I know when you were born. So, >> a brief a brief cuz we've got to do your journey mine, right? Where we'll do we're going to dive into into you. >> But um effectively I I let's say I painted um I painted non like one model a year maybe every year for my whole life. Like I'd do like one one literally one model.

I'd go to the games workshop. I would buy brand new paints and I'd I'd paint like a warlock or something, right? So I was I've always But that's like one 28 mil model a year. It doesn't I don't >> So you were really even when you were were much younger and you were doing like armies and shit, you were really not painting. >> No. Uh one a year cons is considered not painting. >> Oh, I see. Yes. But up to 14 I painted loads >> and then I stopped. >> Oh, fuck me. That's what I was asking. So Okay. I thought everyone knew that. >> I'm not talking about painting like proper painting. Just did you paint at all? Yes, you did.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that doesn't count. >> When I say when I say painting, I mean I was trying to paint. >> No, that's not what I'm talking about. I mean like any kind of painting whatsoever. >> What is trying to paint? >> What I'm trying to do now? That's trying to paint. It's not like the rest weighs like three tons and then you have to um the the only time you can make a really clear distinction is I would say is is kind of what Arn Now and I was just saying like when Arn Now is doing his Emperor's Children Army is possibly not trying to paint in your definition.

So, like, >> yeah, I I get what you're saying, but that's still like you're still doing the hobby. And and that's also after years and years and years of being a professional painter, >> but saying like you didn't try to paint when you were 13. I'm sure you did at the time. >> I was loving it. It was great. I fucking It was amazing. >> And it um But look, wait, wait, we're so confused now. So, I'll try. >> Yes, we always >> So, fine. Fuck that. Whatever. I started painting in 2016 to 2019. Okay.

>> So, yeah. >> And that's my end like mid end 2018 and started maybe August 2016. >> Um, and that they're the years I consider painting. Right. >> Yeah. >> And the Elder Project doesn't feel like painting because I'm just I'm painting by numbers if that makes sense. It's it's it's so obviously everybody has a def different definition of what art is, what painting is. For me, Elder Project isn't painting. It obviously is painting categorically because I'm putting paint slightly reductive way to describe heavy metal painting what you just said, but fair enough.

>> No, but it's different. I'm copying paint jobs. I'm I'm literally looking at a piece of art and copying it. >> Every metal Well, every metal still have to come up with the color schemes. They still have to apply >> sometimes, but I mean, not every time they paint an ultra fine then. >> Loads of times there's there's established color schemes and recipes. >> Fine then. I don't consider that painting. Yes. >> Yeah. Fucking harsh, but okay. >> Like that to me is like going through it. I'm doing it. No, I I can't imagine that many of them painters are feeling expressive and free and fulfilled with with doing that paint job every single day. It's a job, right?

>> Yes, it's a job. Look, the the comparison that I I know you love these al analogies and comparisons and allegorories. Uh what it is is I've thought about this. >> You work in a restaurant and you're cooking very very simple staple foods that will blow no one's mind, but it's fucking good. It's really good. >> Oops. Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. So like basically all the Italian food you were eating in Monte that stuff like the lasagna that's heavy metal painting because no one's going to go into that restaurant and be like what is this?

What is this crazy concoction that you've made? It's just it's like it's pasta and butter and cheese. >> It's not the recipe. It's not the methods either. It's how well done it is. That's every metal painting. So, >> and then when you go to Monte the painting competition, that's where you see a lot of the weird like lobster foam and someone's made like a little cracker out of a a pine cone. >> Twat twat food, I call that. >> Yeah, twat food. I >> You see twat food in all kinds of art and you see like wholesome, simple, really well-made staples in all forms of art. But I think that that >> and that's and that's why also sorry why it's very reasonable not to fully appreciate every metal painting which is I'm not saying people are wrong to not appreciate it but I can see why someone would look at that stuff and be like well okay whatever it's a blue guy in in in armor with a shiny sword who cares >> it's cuz you've seen that before but it's just really solid

>> well >> and what you saying about the painters themselves I mean a chef can still go to work every night and cook really solid, simple food, do like a really proper well done um piece of meat, uh and uh people will eat it up and be like, "Yep, that's what I expected." >> Well, >> and that chef will still think, "Yeah, I fucking pulled this off just like they could paint a cloak or a good-look power sword or some free hand on an elder cape." >> I don't think the chef would think that is is where I was going to go. Like, I think the chef would be like, "Right, >> it might be it might still be satisfying. No one wants Well, sorry.

Not everyone wants constant challenges. >> Absolutely true. >> Artistic expression. >> Yeah. But it's also okay, >> especially if you do it every single day. Sorry. What? >> It's also okay to say that that's where I'm at as a as a painter, as an every like >> Yeah. >> I don't think that the the guys I mean, you've done it mine, so we we could just literally ask you, you know, when you're painting a squad of five, >> that's not going to give you the same level as the Angron did, right? No, no, that's exactly right. And I think it's um it's a different uh a different approach. There's nothing that I paint I I I can honestly say there's nothing maybe one or two things. Okay, there's a few things I painted where I was like, "Fuck this." Um uh but I still tried to do as good a job as I as I knew it needed. Um, you get a sense of uh, and I think our now does this too, you get a sense of good enough when you do it for a living. I think what you were just saying with like

going through the motions of a painting a bust, even though we've not seen that before, even though it's not quite as formulaic and standard as like a lot of ultramarines, you probably think of it as like this is just my 9 to5. This is I've just finished this. >> Yes. >> Yeah. And I' I've had a couple projects like that, I guess. But most of the time you sort of try to find a way to be creative and uh have fun with it anyway. Like it's that that connects to like the pressure as well. Some projects, you know, going in like this will maybe not be um you know on the cover of Whitef or maybe grab someone's attention quite as much as Yeah. like Angron.

But it's Yeah, that's that's where it turns into a job, I think. >> But that's kind of Yeah. The the the reason we got there was because I was saying that I don't consider >> We're talking about your elder project. >> Yeah. Yeah. But what Well, so I don't consider it painting because I'm not pushing myself in the same way the chef, >> he obviously it's cooking, but he's not he wouldn't say that he's creating art or whatever. I don't know. He's not he's not like fulfilled by the meal that he's cooked 800 times. >> I get what you're saying. He wouldn't go to other chefs and and and uh >> and talk about what he just did at work to as if that would impress anyone. I get what you're saying. And with your elder project, you don't say this painting cuz you're you're you're taking someone else's >> artistic freedom. There's no template.

Yeah. Yeah. >> But I still I still think that the the craft is really impressive and especially when you're doing it after such a specific template as the third edition Elar stuff. But I I don't think painting and and impressive is even in the same um like it doesn't they are not um how do I say it? >> Yeah. Related >> exclusive mutually exclusive like um have you ever painted a a model ship or a model car or a >> sure plane or whatever?

>> Yeah. >> Those things are very formulaic as well. like there's there's no freedom or you know there's freedom in choices of colors or >> no but yeah and in and in the community of like um armor modelers the no one talks about creativity in that way. It's more about authenticity and >> and realis and realism. Yeah. It's it's >> um but and and I I understand I think I understand what Jamie is saying about the painting because I I wouldn't consider making a model car painting even if I it's putting paint on the model >> but I don't consider it it's model making >> model making >> and I think the heavy metal style overlaps a little bit in model making >> and it overlaps in painting as well. you know it's it has one fit in both in both places.

It I guess it depends on how you take it how because there's I'm sure anger is not in the same um even realm of effort and and decision making than it is painting an ultramarine or five ultramarines. Same as >> I if if you get um a box of tamilia and you buy and you build a car and you paint it with the paints that they they give you. is not the same as this this this guy in one competition that he did uh um one I think it was I don't know the scale right now it was like 114 or something like that it was very big >> a helicopter >> and he did the whole helicopter by himself and all the pieces with plastic with cutting things and it was >> scratch built >> a scratch built >> and he took pictures from inside and it looked like a he took pictures of a real uh fucking um helicopter.

These two things are model making as well. >> Yeah. >> And they are fucking mighty impressive. >> I mean, yeah. Interestingly, you've mentioned and we've talked about before how painting is all about decision making >> except when it isn't. >> Yeah. >> Cuz that's I mean the the the five ultramarines is a great example of that. I did five Ultram remains with uh big stupid guns and they uh there was nearly zero decision- making in that project. Very very very minor. >> That's the least challenging one.

>> Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure. And it's still you and and it was I I thought it was fun to to get to do something that feels kind of uh what's the word? Like Yeah. Like a a real sort of staple like oh, everyone's got to do a Squad of Ultramarines. That's great. But no, there wasn't. So, so it was fun and it was uh it was nice cuz I didn't have to go through all of that like uh uh yeah, like questioning what's going to look the best. But if we are talking about decision-m and also the kind of the kind of painting again where um you know you'll have um tuition and stuff are now and you'll help people and ask all these questions, answer all these questions.

Yeah, that's not really applicable here cuz all of those questions have been answered for you. So, I would agree that's closer to like model making and it it definitely overlaps a bit with that armor model stuff and uh what do they call it? The the plane builder people. Yeah. Building planes. >> Yeah. >> What they called? So >> yeah, >> that's why I consider I've only painted for like two or three years basically because I I don't learn anything from when I do my older project. I'm not learning new techniques.

I'm not Do you know what I mean? I'm I'm It was hor I didn't like it, but I fucking loved the result. We've been through this. It's it's it's yesterday's porridge. It I love looking at the cabinet. The only cabinet I like looking at is the Elder Project cabinet, which is some way motivates me to do more of it, but I don't want to cuz I I want to paint basically. I want I want to I want to move away from being excited to look at that and and and be excited by something like this. It's not a great artwork.

>> I can't blur right now, unfortunately. >> Very blurry. Yeah, >> you can uh paste it in and Yeah, that's cool. So, here's a question. Is there is there a chance that you could uh like what are our now is doing if you if you feel uninspired to paint uh with with this definition of it could you just do some dirt and see if that gets your engine going I was why why not do this and then while you're painting transform it a little bit because there's levels right there's there's levels >> that is totally anti project >> that No, I know. I know. I know. Sure.

It is. But that's Jamie. That's sort of what I'm doing >> is you don't you don't start I don't anyway start a model thinking I'm not going to do anything the way I've always done it. I'm going to do it much better and way different and just like are now. I'm going to grow my beard out. That's not what I do. That's just like um >> well, it depends on the model, I guess. But with the with the Space Wolves I did, I mean, we've talked about this. It's It's not a completely different approach, but the fuck you just do. Just put your hand up.

>> It means I want to talk. >> Yeah, I can see you. You could have just said that. That's very nice. >> It's good thing that since there's 40 people in this podcast, it's good to know it's got their hand. >> That's clever, right? Because you haven't talked in the whole podcast, so you had to raise a hand now. >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> Thanks, mate. I don't want the reason why I'm not doing the other projects is because I want to do I'm I'm super happy doing the project I'm doing. I don't need to jump off this project to get motivated. I'm I'm motivated to do the project.

>> We are not saying that you do the other project. It's like if if you are struggling a lot and then you find yourself with difficulties of painting, >> go back to what you know. >> You can you can go back to what you know and then from there it's like >> build on that. >> The trouble is I I get it. I and I appreciate that, but I'm not struggling. So, I don't even need to have that, >> right? >> Do you see? So, rewind. Listen to the start of the episode. See if I'm struggling. Um, no, we've already resolved it >> of what my blocker was. Yeah, >> we already did it.

>> Thank god we did >> the light source. >> Well, maybe it's useful for someone else then. >> Yeah, exactly. And I bet it won't because they are not going to understand what we've said. In fact, 90% of people are probably already turned off. >> But we only haven't have talked about Maybe that's why. Yeah, we only have talked about uh painting. So, >> I I would be absolutely insane in We've been talking painting non-stop for like 45 minutes. It's a half. >> If I was a listener, I would be rage quitting this at this outrage. Well, um, so let's I mean, um, >> we we lost the jingles. We lost the bullshit.

>> What the fuck happened to my jingles? It's like, what are we >> scored? We we we can try. Um, no, we've got the jingles. If I can get that joke done, mate. >> Right. So, we've still got the jingles, mate. I'm just going to have to learn them off by heart. Slow as a snail. Right. We've got all the jingles, boys. I just need We We haven't done any segments. We've just done the meat of it, which is unpasters. We did uh meat of it. >> Right. I'm sorry. Well, look guys, what I will say, okay, people have said that the cast is good now, which we've never had before. Most people have been telling us how shit we are. I refer back to the studio comments of um you talk over each other, you retards. That was it.

>> That was Yeah, massive comment. But >> then we will become a bad podcast. We We need those words of encouragement. You know how shit we are. How >> We do like it. >> Well, we've got one doesn't call me a retard. I don't know how to reconcile over each other. >> Oh, yeah. But we Oh, is that what they meant? >> I assume they meant like we were interrupting and getting on each other's nerves or something. >> I guess. >> I don't know. I mean, whoever writes that comment's pretty >> literally I think it's literally that they hear more than one voice and they don't want that.

>> Hey, they're allowed to have >> whatever whatever whatever in God's name they're trying to say, just shut the fuck up. >> They should also write it a bit more. Um, I wrote a a Reddit post the other day and I got down votes, but no one told me why. And I was like, guys, come on. >> What? >> Give me some feed, you know. Anyway, >> Mr. Skynet Joe um an old listener of ours. Okay. And and we don't have many old listeners. I dare say we've only got um Dan and Paul who are our old listeners, right? The the OGs.

>> Oh, right. Yeah. I wouldn't know. >> Yeah, that's >> No, we have more. Um >> who? >> I guess. Well, we have only half six, so probably not. >> Yeah. And everybody else left. >> Yeah. >> Like when we when we left, they left. Anyway, he's written I remember the old days when half the screen half the stream was watching you dealing with technical difficulties and he's not wrong. He's sadly he's not wrong. >> That's that's why Lion left. >> Listen, >> it's a good thing everything's worked out now. >> It's honestly it's amazing. It's been seven years since we've done this podcast and we've got it. We got it down. So, that leads me to the thought of the day. Pick a number one to six. I have to find it. one.

>> Fucking hell. We should pick it's it's it's week the number one so we always >> to get through the back. It's less exciting, but yeah, I guess so. Um I I mean this is this is boring. This is fucking rubbish. Me the thought of it and I did. It's one so it's old. >> Is it better to have fun or achieve your goals dreams? I couldn't remember. There was context. There would have I should have written more. I didn't think you'd take eight weeks to get there. Um, >> yeah. Did you Did you want to do you want to do another one?

>> Yeah. I mean, that we almost covered that in the uh >> that's like a would you rather version >> more than thought of, isn't it? >> Basically, it's like oh, it's probably I don't know. Fuck it. Whatever. I don't care. Um, so I like this one. I think marketing people are really missing a really good avenue in Black Friday advertising. >> Okay. Can you guess where I'm going?

>> No fucking clue. >> They need to do it about black people. See, I thought you I thought maybe that's what you >> I've not seen a single I've not seen a single campaign where it's like >> I don't know some black guy is he's getting the same and he's just like walking down the street and I I haven't thought about a campaign around it but there's got to be like walking down the and everyone's like hey and then like the police are like giving them flowers like something like that right like a slightly satirical look at the modern day you know and then that and then he goes into >> racism yeah >> right and he goes into like Barclay's bank and they're like I don't know they could be racist and that's the twist but there's something in there I just feel like >> how out the whole world has no one done an advertising campaign on that >> well I don't think you have um >> sold it very well >> seen the whole marketing campaigns of the whole world >> okay well if anybody ever seen a slightly satirical Black Friday black advert let me know because I'd love to see

or if someone works in marketing, you're welcome. >> Right? If that comes out next year, you fucking know that we've got more than five listeners. Seven. >> Um, so I'm not a dancing man. >> Okay. I I I I don't like dancing. >> The thought of the day. >> No, this is this is just I just thought of the day is done. >> I should This is just a phrase of the day. >> This is just a thought. I mean this is literally the thought of the day actually because I thought that well anyway. So >> this is punishment for anyone who actually listened for to to like 90 minutes of painting and now like you >> you sit the fuck down >> and enjoy this conversation. Right. So I I I've I've always I hated dancing.

Okay. Someone at the dance some girl or some shit would try and pull you up and you be like I don't want to fucking dance. They come and dance. It's fun. or you're in a nightclub, everyone's dancing again. A girl comes up and says, "Do you want to have a dance?" You're like, "No, I don't fucking want to dance to this shit." That's not happened to me though. Obviously not. But um and I've always thought I I dancing shit, but actually it's the music that's shit that I don't want to dance to. I don't want to dance to pop music. I don't want to dance to ABBA. I don't I don't So anyway, album came on today. Okay.

It's what I'm listening to. It's called The band is called Black Joe Lewis and the Honey Bears. Okay. Brilliant, brilliant band. Probably from Somewhere in America. No doubt he's black and he's called Joe. Okay. And the album's called Scandalous. It's 2011. Now, I've I've listened to a few of their other albums. The reason why I started listening to it is I started listening to Clearance Clearwater Revival. Okay. >> Credence Clear Water Revival. Thanks, mate. And I was like, "Holy shit, they sound a lot like Joe Black Lewis." Um, and I was like, "Wow, it's like this weird blues." Anyway, I was hanging up some washing and I found myself dancing.

And I was like, "Jesus, dancing is amazing. It's it's fucking brilliant, but only when the music >> agree." >> Yeah. >> Right. And if you're forced if someone makes you and you say you don't want to do it, just fucking leave them alone. They don't want to dance. So yeah, that's me. >> Okay, good. >> That's good. Good. >> Um, that's it. That's the episode over. >> We don't have any questions that you want to >> Oh shit, I do, but my kid's banging on the door. Um, I see. >> But yeah, I I don't know. I mean, I did tell her that I wouldn't be done till Hold on. I could probably pause this.

Let's do one question or two. Let's see how we go. Um, I don't know which is older, Bose questions or or these ones I've got down. So, this is Dr. Love Brush, which is >> Bows are pretty. >> I was going to do the jingle. It's the heart monitor. >> Nice. >> Yes. Come in, darling. And he's getting undressed. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. You asked me to come with the jingle on the spot. >> No, I want I want more jingles in general. And if this is this is what we're getting, then this >> I can do the jingles. You just won't be able to hear them.

>> That's fine. >> That's okay. I mean, >> that's okay. >> It's We have to Yeah. We give the >> listeners what they want. Yeah. Yeah. These fucking five listeners, >> but they pay for >> um Okay, I'll start quickly. Paul, the the the original one of the early he's the guy who made us our um emojis. Brewster 596, following the discussion, following the discussion. Fuck me, Paul. You don't even remember asking the question about painting recipes. Would you be interested in thinking and helping people out with their color choices?

I'm assuming he means through a photo. >> I think I've uh answered that in the Discord. I said, "Yeah, go ahead. Send me uh I'll help you out." And then he >> just didn't. >> There was messaging >> ungrateful piece. Oh, he >> Yeah, very briefly. I he asked questions and I help him with it. >> But I mean, yeah. So, as is if if I can see it like on Discord, there's >> hundreds of thousands of messages every day. But if I if I come across one and you want some input, >> you've got >> you can ask now as well. You can ask Jamie, too. You can ask anyone.

>> You've got Ask the Artist as the channel. >> Yeah. Ask the go to go to that thing and ask. Um and and or potentially we could start trying to suggest colors in the show, but we are very much wanting to limit the amount of video time we do uh on screen needed to look in fairness. Um do you want to hit me with a bow on? >> Okay. So um I will open my bright uh window. >> You get that ready. I'll quickly throw another one out there. Fe this name fee.

I've been thinking of color schemes for my harlequins and I can't seem to figure it out. Oh, I want that. This is the way I I want them to be strong linked to my Is this just asking for colors? There's no question there. Let's do both. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, Bo Bo has some good questions here. So, uh one of them is um um we can we can all kind of answer this, but he says, "What what is your process before you put paint on the model? do you think about light direction, color choices, etc. >> And I think >> yeah, and there's another question from from someone else. Uh, and this is sort of the same question is how how much planning goes into a display piece like color palette, the base, is it all built and finished before painting? Uh, do you sketch any ideas? So, basically prep work. My short answer is yes. I prep uh everything. I'll do maybe sometimes like a test model depending on what I'm doing. Most >> like for the squad I did that. But um

yeah, I'll have an idea of the color scheme. I'll build as much as humanly possible uh before I start painting anything. So yeah. Yeah. Planning. Oh, and I'll do Photoshop sketches. >> Damn. >> Um are now >> well I tend to get completely naked and sit on a paintbrush and depending on the pain levels. Uh, >> and the paint brush is like this or like this? >> Yeah. And I only use the large paint brush from GW, >> the one that's like this big >> for painting scenery.

>> But not the brush side. Fucking don't be stupid. And then um depending on obviously I open the window and shout and then depending on who I see first will dictate the color scheme. >> The color scheme. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's a bit a bit less weird than I expected to be fair. Um I do a lot. It's not a lot to be fair, but it's I try to imagine what I want to paint in a way and if I don't know it because it's not possible to imagine everything. It's not possible to imagine details and you know but um looking for references and inspiration in Pinterest or Google images or whatever it helps so much with with picking those color. It's not only the color schemes because I I I guess the the evolved or the next step over color schemes is the color composition because a guy that it's dressed with a white shirt and

black pants is not the same as a guy that is dressed in white shirt and black black pants in a warm ambient. And it's not the same in a green ambient. is not the same in one that has two different color ambients. So >> all this all these things you have to take into consideration what will the image look like at the end because I can think okay I can paint a guy with a red t-shirt purple pants but the ambient will be green that's fucking awful >> and even if that's my color scheme it's awful. So all these things I have to plan ahead and think and I I like to get also a bit a bit like a child playing like what's the character um what's the situation I I like to imagine a little bit of of that and create a bit of a story even if it's just very very brief in my head to to get involved with the character.

I've actually forgotten about my story in my model. I forgot that it's quite helpful to do >> it is because it solves questions that automatically if you if you establish that and you >> the narrative the narrative really helps no matter what it is. Definitely >> um it will yeah like are now saying it will answer a lot of questions for you. It's really good. Um, >> I never I never I never start painting with I don't have these questions, >> right?

>> Um, do you want to go to the next one? Uh, do you take photos of your work mid-process to find potential problems? Um, I tend to have photos. Yeah, probably. Probably I'll Yeah, I'll I'll send photos to other people to give feedback on or I'll just uh end up looking at them myself. So, yeah. Yeah, probably. Yes. Is >> dude, we have >> Yes. is myself. I take pictures every session more or less. And then when I'm in those periods where I don't care, I don't look at them.

So, they are just there. But when I when I am in the good moments where I kind of obsess about the piece, I I look at them every day, try to see what I'm doing right, what I do, what I like, what I don't. And for example, with the taskmaster, every day or every two days, I look at the p at the picture because I it's like I know that something's missing. If I look at the picture after two days, it's I can maybe it can pop up in my in my mind, right? What what's what's happening?

>> And so I do this uh often when I'm involved company secret. I don't I I've started a little bit maybe. I've never done it before to compose and looked but with these guys. But I'm trying to not overe these. They they're meant to be shit at small. Um, but at the same time, I can't I can't help it. Um, >> I It's possibly the worst the best started episode to the worst episode we've ever had. Possibly.

I don't know. I don't know. I'm not going to um I need to go. Yeah. So, they're the answers questions. I've got some great >> We'll get to the others eventually. Some of them are really really quick to answer. >> There aren't many more except for Bose. Uh I've created a a fucking spreadsheet, okay? And what I'm going to do is people ask the questions in the motherfucking channels. I'm going to put them in that spreadsheet. I'll share it with everyone. And then I will also put in fuck will I answered that question in.

>> Oh wow. >> Okay. So it means some dickhead who's like, "What does cheese mean? They can go in and look up. I mean, who's the there's seven people?" Really, I shouldn't insult our listeners as much as I do, >> but it's their Can you stop yourself? No, I don't think they they bring it on themselves. Do you know what I mean? It's the same reason I don't use the tube or the fucking train. I'm sick of it. But I do love life. Um, thank you, boys. Thank you. >> Thank you. What's going >> it's it's it's Tuesday. We're going to go out with this on Friday because we're not going to record for you're away for two weeks are now.

>> Mhm. >> Not only that, but I'm I will not have internet in when I'm when I'm out. So, yeah. >> Why don't you just get the internet? What the fuck is that? >> I will not have um only Wi-Fi. I would not have Yeah, >> maybe some of Maybe some of our listeners will see you like in person in Las Vegas. >> Actually, yes. If they doc >> just slap him, okay, and then run away. But the only annoying thing is now >> it's a funny thing. >> If you get slapped on now, Yeah. you will assume that it's a Mini Matters listener and not just a psychopath who's just slapped you.

>> Yeah. Like Yeah. America's a dodgy place. Um, cheers guys. >> Yep. >> We're going to hit the button. We have a Discord.

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