Golden Demon AdeptiCon 2026 Review

And I'm going to put that dice in the sock. As a little treat for the child that puts on the sock, they're going to have a bad day. They really will. They also um the mom from the kids tells me off for putting the dirty socks on them cuz I don't believe in socks being dirty. You can wear the same socks for multiple months without any kind of bad uh issue. And she's like, it causes skin problems. I'm like, Jesus. >> [sighs and snorts] >> Ah. God, it's good to be back there, wasn't it? So, how you been, boys? How's your How's your painting week's been?

It's all right. Good. Painting something. >> Yeah, it's good. Hm. You've [clears throat] painted Necromunda. You actually are painting then. I I was a I So, I forget you do paint for real. What For whom? Why? Uh it's a it's a commission. Do you paint a Necromunda on commission? >> 28 mil or some spicy bullshit. Okay. Interesting. You kept that quiet. I feel like as your agent, I should know these things. >> [laughter] >> Um if I was your agent, what percentage would I have to take? Zero.

You You do it for the love. Oh, I see. That's a sh- I don't want to be that agent. There's um recently, which no one would care about unless they follow football, but um Chelsea Football Club, which is a big club in the UK. Um when they had the Russian mafia running them. Yeah. >> Um they they And obviously, they didn't tell everyone this. They won loads of trophies. And they paid all their agents like 5 million quid, 10 million quid of the players to just be like, get that player here. So, they paid them illegally. Um now, that's in no way relatable here because you don't want to pay me. Um but I feel like if I were to be a global international agent, I think I could be a great agent.

Anyway, um we have Golden Demon. I was expecting some sort of like, oh, that's amazing or wow. >> have you I'm still stuck on the agent thing. That would be amazing if you were my agent cuz I have I I can't do that stuff myself. No, I would >> be incredible. Especially the Russian mafia Yeah, well >> version. The thing about the Russian mafia version is um I would have to go to I would have to be a person like a studio and you would have to be the players that have agents and then I would pay those agents without telling you guys.

Oh, I see what you're saying. >> I want Arno to come to me. Right. We don't have a lot of gangster involvement in our community, do we? >> That we know of. >> Maybe. That we know of. Yeah. Right, because isn't it suspicious that um somebody gets a box art done and it takes 2 and 1/2 years to get to them and then it's dry brushed, for example. Very. >> Yeah. That's Arno's That's That's That's Matthew's vibes. Really, isn't it? >> it's suspicious that Arno does box arts at all. I've not seen any proof to to suggest that he does. And I think that it's a front like um in Green Lanes in London, we have a lot of hairdressings and groceries shops. Now, that's all in cash.

Hm. And all I'm saying is they're doing well. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Of course. Now, if I had an army of of children That's good to paint for you. Talented children. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I don't believe it. At least their front is believable. Yours is that's a It'd be like coming You see a hairdresser, right? And then everyone's coming out looking shit. Then you'd be like, okay. I I'm I'm seeing. But if every single person coming out the hairdressers looks amazing, you'd be like, maybe. And that's what you've got. Yes.

>> For example, if I had and I was the most successful sculptor and I had Flamboyant posting online how I've got a new Ferrari and a new house. And then you look at my models and then like an asshole from a bird, you'd be like, right, something's fishy there. Hm. We have Golden Demon. Yay. >> Yeah, right. Fuck yeah. Okay, I I guess cuz none of us >> It's It's been a hell of a weekend for miniature painting. Wow. Last It was good, though. I've not seen any of the entries at all. I've seen I've seen all of them. I've scrutinized them. Wow.

How did you know it was happening? The I watched the I watched the award ceremony live because Henrik, I think, streamed it live. From the old ex-Sweden professional >> Henrik Larsson. That's what he's called, yeah. That's insane that they've got that level of clout now. Like A, I didn't know he was into it. B, he's at AdeptiCon. That's unlikely. Yeah. So, but he was live streaming it and that was very nice of him to do that.

I should actually [clears throat] tell him that it was very nice of him to do that. >> Oh, so you know Henrik? >> That's how on top of shit I am. I knew that it was happening and I was like, I'm going to watch it right now. Why didn't GW do a live stream? Isn't it illegal for you to record? Every time I've been there, they said, do not record. I think they might even have said, please don't live stream, but I'm not sure. I'm not sure. That makes sense. >> is Yeah, I mean, we don't [clears throat] care about that, do we? We do not care. >> That's right. >> We do not. And And And this Is this the worst 6 minutes of podcast we've ever done? Do you think?

No, we've talked about the Russian mob, Henrik Larsson. But interestingly, Arno >> average 6 minutes. Arno nodded. Well, I mean, I was about to say that it's difficult to choose between so much um shit that we've had in the past. >> Good interests that we have done. I see. I [snorts] see. I see. I Arno's Arno's ready to contribute to the next 6 minutes being amazing. Shoot. Go, Arno.

You see how hard it is when you put on the spot like that? I talk shit cuz I have to, Arno, not cuz I want to. Um I don't know if that's true, by the way. I think that's true. >> I I haven't watched much of the TV either, so I think it would be cool to to go over. Well, yes, we yes. Yes. I also agree. >> the first time, you know. That's actually a good I didn't think about that aspect, but yeah, it'd be nice for you guys to have a little bit of an actual first impression. >> reaction will be caught on film, which no one cares about. But it will be on film.

>> I want to see what you think. >> That's true. That is true. You do care. Thanks, Martin. Um right, so we've got Golden Demon. We of course have thought of the day, which is potentially the highlight of people's We We We may have fashion food, but we also might have I've forgotten the name. Blockbusters. Uh What's the name of the thing? >> Blockbusters? Grotbusters, of course. >> [laughter] >> Um >> It's coming back. It's nice. Well, the trouble is, I realized Arno's brother used to be an integral part of this show, okay? From the from behind the scenes. And he hasn't listened to an episode since season 4 started. I think he did listen to some, but I'm not sure.

I'll have to ask. Well, I'll tell you how I know he hasn't cuz he stopped emailing me. Yeah. Right? And I'm sick of it, to be honest, Arno. He was the reason I got out of bed. You miss him dearly. Yeah, well, the fact that he won't listen means says it all, really. >> [snorts] >> We also have um Bow's questions. Hm. Yeah, I saw that he was he was really excited about the new season. >> I will Yeah, sorry, yours is yours is better. It's cuz you know I still don't have respect for our listeners. That's the issue I've got here.

Yeah. The the audacity to listen to this drivel, and it is shit, this podcast. We We have maybe 10 minutes of good in a 2-hour podcast, right? And that all mostly comes from painters in this podcast. Yeah. So, I It's hard to respect someone It's It is insane to expect anything else is what you're trying to say, right? Basically. >> People The fact that they're disappointed means that they have expectations and those expectations are always founded on just a fantasy. Well, the fact that we don't get any hate mail. We never have people telling us we're shit or this is a shit >> We We got Oh, you're right. No, you're right. I was I actually this was a highlight of my week last week. I have I [laughter] I think I shared to you guys in my utter joy. Um I'm not sure quite why it tickles me so much when people are so annoyed.

Um but I really Oh, man, I'm going to have to I'm going to have to show I'm going to I'm I'm going to go to the thing, okay? I want to read out one of the comments or two. I think it was two. One was particularly good. One was like Like one was in earnest. One was actually trying to better us, right? And I was like, I responded with that with with with sincerity. Like, all due respect, I'm not going to change. So, Far out, lads. So much senseless meandering. I can't disagree. As I say, the podcast is shit.

Um constant unnecessary swearing. It's so off-putting. Now, I don't have a fucking problem with that, okay? I think that's fine. You don't like swearing. The meanest But it was a It wasn't like I'm just shit talking, right? I just want to fuck you off and go, right, Anyway, so I had a good exchange with that lady. I assume it's a lady cuz no man would complain about swearing. >> [laughter] >> Right? Then Okay, now that's a real comment. That's also real. Yeah, that's also real. And that's also real, yeah.

I think Yeah, this is good. Okay. What the fuck is this 7 minutes in? I agree and still don't know what this is about. I also agree. The bald cunt guy talking shit and boohoo, I'm a father while two others stare aimlessly. Won't be trying the challenge again. And I like that he's called it a challenge cuz it is a challenge. >> [laughter] >> Um Warhammer with no Warhammer. And I I genuinely couldn't agree more with his comment. And it's very funny that in that same episode you you you talked about how you went to a magic a video and the guy was talking about his dog and not about magic. Yeah. It's so poetic. Yeah. And I even think with that comment I said that it pissed me off. Yeah.

Right, another great one. This episode is not worth watching. Three idiots with no clue how to show how to run a show talk about themselves for too long and bore you to death. I mean, that is good. And I I I think it's potentially the best review we've had. Yeah, the the most accurate. I could not have summed it summed it up better, honestly. People are so eloquent sometimes. It's really impressive. [clears throat] Honest. Yes, and honest. >> It's touching. It's touching. Like I've said it a few episodes and and and I This is how I feel, okay?

You drink piss, right? And the first time you drink piss, you're like, that's disgusting. And and piss is lager, Guinness, whiskey. Any drink that you drink, right? It You drink one and you're like, I will never drink that in my life. A year later you're like, give me that fucking whiskey, right? That's what I think this podcast is. Cuz I think it is I genuinely think it is drivel and shit, right? But [clears throat] if you listen to 10 episodes, which makes no sense cuz that's 20 hours of your life gone. But but what these people who are commenting don't realize is we're not targeting people anyone. We Well, Yeah, I mean, that is true.

We quite literally aren't. We we We we don't have like a demographic No, but we we we our aim is to get people who have nothing else to do and are sitting on their ass for 4 or 5 hours a day. So they're desperate for shit. Anyway, it's a podcast about a podcast, boys. >> [snorts] >> Ah, keep those comments up, please. >> This is the thing. I don't think a lot of podcasts specifically catered to inmates, prison inmates, people who are locked in a room and have no idea Weird is stepping up for those people. >> That's our real demographic. So news Incarcerated Warhammer enthusiasts who don't actually want to listen to a Warhammer podcast. And most likely don't like themselves or painting, but still are here.

>> No, of course not. Obviously not that. It's weird. Yeah, and they think they are guilty and they have to punish themselves. Yes. Poor guys. [snorts] I feel sorry for them. Um So do you have any news? Um actually, I don't think so. There's been pigeons on my balcony. No, fucking wait. Right, I wonder if I can Hold on. [snorts] Holding. So this is my balcony, okay? And I the last few years I've had pigeons join the show. And and here is the Here is what my my exchange with said pigeon, okay?

You can see the shit This is my 3D printer on my balcony, all right? Tell us you can hear the audio. pigeon, okay? And I was like, why does she keep flying back? She did keep flying back, right? She kept flying back, right? >> [snorts] >> Um like I pushed her away and I threw away and she was just she was she would just kind of look at me. Anyway, and look. I try and push her away. And I was like, she's really She's very unusual. I was confused by it, right? And I was like, this is weird. I thought maybe she's like a hand rear that ran away. But then I saw her egg. Now look what happens when I go to take her egg.

It's a bitch She attacks me. Look at that. I've never seen that before in my life. I'm going to have to wash my hands, but yeah. That's amazing, right? There you go. So there you go. That's amazing. >> What do you What did you think was going to happen? That would That's what any animal would do if you tried to take their I didn't know there was an egg. I didn't know there was an egg. So Well, you knew when you held it in your hand and it tried to attack you. >> No, the first time it attacked me, but I wanted to demonstrate to you guys. Yeah. Right? So Um Cuz I was confused. He was flapping around like chilling out and I was like, oh, good. Anyway, that's my news.

Um I got attacked by a pigeon today. So That's it, really. Um Yeah, I mean, I'm going [snorts] to have to exit the They I will They will not be allowed to stay here. What do you of course? They That that little hole that they were in is an exhaust for my 3D printer. So Yeah, and they would come up mutants. >> [laughter] >> It doesn't sound healthy for anyone, really. It's just not a bad a bad symbiosis. Pigeons if they've got one thing, it's adaptability.

They have They've got GPS in their fucking nose, right? That's the first thing that's amazing. And they can fly relatively long distances. And they remember where they live. I mean, they're amazing creatures, to be honest. I know a lot of people who don't remember where they live. Yeah, Alzheimer's, I guess. I was thinking the same and I thought I will not say it. Just just Of course you said it. Thanks, Jamie. If you can't If you can't enjoy life with everything that it's given us and it has given us a lot, Mhm. then Do you know what I mean?

>> [snorts] >> Um well, then anyway. >> [laughter] >> Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. >> We did not have any other news. I mentioned that there's pigeons living on my balcony and you responded with your mutated 3D printer um babies. >> And that's the news for sure. There's nothing else that's happened in the last week. So Or now I was painting Necromunda for some reason.

Uh hold on. >> [laughter] >> We have the best podcast in the world, right? Now Golden Demon is a competition that takes place once a year. Once in Well, twice. Just for people who don't know. >> [snorts] >> Um Okay. I see what's going on here. >> [laughter] >> Okay. There you go. Yeah. I think this is the I think this is the fourth time it's been at AdeptiCon in the US. Oh, that's good. It used to be in in like four places in the US 15 years ago and then they shut them all down and then they came back to AdeptiCon. And now Golden Demon is at AdeptiCon and Spiel in Essen. And we all go to Essen now together every year even though we're not even competing, some of us.

Yes. I mean, we don't go for the competing, do we? We go to spend time with our best friends forever. That's right. That's right. I'm looking forward to that. I've got work to do on that. And um Now we're going to look at everything. So the So AdeptiCon was last weekend. It's a Friday today. So 1 week ago was AdeptiCon and on Sunday they announced all the Golden Demon winners. And we're going to go through them now and Now obviously none of us Sorry. were there. No, I I don't know why I thought you'd finished. It's crazy. Carry on.

No, I was just I just I didn't have a set speech here. I'm just kind of thinking out loud. We're going to go through all the things and we're going to look at some stuff that we like. And if we don't mention any of these entries, it means that we hate them. That's how this works. And look at favorites. And if we dislike Whoops, we skipped past something, we absolutely despise that. Yeah. Yes. And [snorts] please, ideally, just send that segment of us scrolling past to that person who we scrolled past. Yeah, yeah, we can't do that ourselves. There's a lot of people. Yeah, we just And we don't care. Yes. Good. Right.

>> [snorts] >> Obviously none of us know about who won on any of the categories. So Predictions on which category would have won the sword? So my prediction will be it's it's 40K single or fantasy single. And it seems like fantasy single seems to win in in Europe and 40K seems to win in America. I don't know. That's an interesting prognosis. So I don't know That's not true, is it? Uh previously the the I think 2022 was Kevin Garrett. That was a skin so iOS.

The last year would have been or the year before that was Orc right? And then there was uh Yeah, all three all three last three years was Age of Sigmar. Fantasy, yeah. There was a the vampire That would just won gold, did it? I see. Okay, cool. So in that case, I predict that the winner of the sword will be fantasy Sigmar. Single miniature. Mhm. A single miniature, yeah. There's um There's always some the the single miniature category year for year is always like some of the best stuff from the competition. But it's interesting to see like where people go with it. Yeah.

So here we are, the revised Golden Demon segment. We are fully Actually, the fact that we've all got three is quite cool. So Golden Demon We've already talked about it, but we can't remember what we said. So, we're just jumping in. Wiggoring. Wiggoring. I just Sorry, that name is I know I mentioned it before, but that's It is Uh he's German, right? Mhm. Yeah, okay. There's nothing wrong with a wiggoring. No. Do you know what wigger means?

Yeah, he's he's he's um he's into M&M. That makes sense. He's ingering it. I I've no idea if he is, but I I just made that up to explain to our listeners if they don't know what wigger means. He's basically a white man who is a black man. So, he's a wigger. He's a he's a white black man. Oh. And it's it's not offensive if you're white, interestingly. Whereas, if you flip that round and say that to a black man, it's kind of offensive. Kind of offensive. Yeah.

>> First time I hear it. Yeah, well, yeah. You don't You don't Yeah, well. Oh, there you go. So, Mr. Wiggoring, um with his beautiful I mean, this is yours, I know. Yeah, I really like the composition of this. It feels very very um um in character with with Corn Berserkers all piling up, charging, and everything. I like very much the composition. And this this is a diorama or well, a squad that I liked the first time when I saw it in Essen. I think it was Yeah. Um I was sad it didn't get anything.

Mhm. Well, I'm happy it didn't now. Um But yeah, I think it's very it's a very well-done scene. So, I like that I like that the colors are so uh dark essentially, like dark and muted for this color scheme is really cool because uh the corn uh the World Eaters color scheme is really quite set. We know what it's supposed to look like. Uh the red and the brass, you can kind of render that different ways. And I really love how dark he went with it. And uh like yes, subdued.

And it's quite moody, and it makes it feel more evil, which is a good thing. Yeah. I love the mood, yeah. Like, what was I thinking? Can you remember? Basically, I said this piece reminds me of your style. Um and I'm not saying it's got to be the style you yours, I know. Yeah, because a lot of a lot of the [snorts] dioramas They were dioramas officially, right? That you entered to a GW GD. I think they were dioramas. Or now it's entries, yeah. Yeah, like um Yeah, it just I don't know. For me, it has a sign of Sigmar feeling, and it makes sense. But you said you like it, basically.

>> Yeah, I guess because there's no that space, and I I hate that space. Um But also Yeah, also the base kind of vibe and um like the the movement and the everything that they What are they Like there you go, boom. In black. I mean, not quite as good as it should be, but um I It It really helps. I wanted to see it in black, yeah, to set the scene. It's got a shit It's got a shit outline. Um Yeah, don't you feel like Yeah, well, fuck it. We don't want to spend too long on these, but like it feels like something I could easily imagine you creating.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No doubt. Probably that's why I like it because it's something that I envision. Yeah. And I wouldn't have thought I mean, they don't look like 28 mil. Ah, shit. I'm going to have to do it to everyone now. Um yeah, right. Crack on. Well, there are some some paintings that uh feel better with white. Yeah, I'm not sure this is one of them. Yeah, but I don't know, but I mean, probably all of them feel very nice in black anyway. I think that this one is um deceptively complicated. Like it it feels like it's not. It feels like it's just a very good paint job.

But the sculpt work and the paint job, the anatomy, everything is fucking on point. This is one of the best in the contest, I think. Just for the not only the amount of effort, but it's good effort, you know? It's It's the It's It's It's hand-sculpted, right, this thing? Is that right? whole thing. Both of the No, so the basically the quads, like the the thighs are um uh sculpted entirely.

Uh And then bits of the rest. So, the the joining Yeah. >> Well, I'm not sure. We can look at a green later, but the the entire Part of the arms, of the chest as well. >> Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot more than it seems, I think. Yeah. I would have liked to have seen Not Not that it really made a difference, but um I would have liked to have seen the the sculpt to see just how much work that was into it. He had He has a video with the with the brushes, and you can see the beads he used and stuff. He's got um Mr. Holstrom has a thing, does he?

That that Patreon or similar, right? Uh you know, the channel with Squidmar. Oh, I see. This is Hatman. Yeah, got you. Okay. I picked up on that. Yeah, I picked up on Hold on. Oh, shit. I just said the wrong image. Oh, well. Yeah, yeah. I like him. Um Yeah. Yeah, I think it's the the the the volume volumetry and anatomy, I think it's just wonderful. Yeah. And the wings The wings are fucking cool. I should To be honest, I'm going to stop editing the backgrounds. I'd do it when we're not in the cast or or Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, let's skip that. Let's skip that. Fuck that. Um So, Alphonsus, I really would really >> skipping the other one? Cuz I've got more images. Um I've got uh Yeah, I'm I'm I'm I'll say I'm I'm shocked he entered. I'm shocked he didn't tell me he was entering. Specifically message me and just be like, "Look, Jay, I hope you don't mind I'm entering Golden Demon again. I know I'm treading on your toes. It's your thing. Sure you don't compete, and you've never placed or anything, but I know it's yours. And what do you think of this idea?" And I would have given him advice, you know, and just been like, "Yeah, that's a good idea. Go with it." Um So, interesting also he went to US with this. I guess cuz he already goes to AdeptiCon, doesn't he? To teach.

>> Yeah. So, it does make sense, actually. Because it's Yeah, okay. In fact, it makes total sense. Um I really really like the piece. I do I do. I think it's it's amazing, and I wish we had more like this in open. Yeah. Even if it was team ups, of course, but this is a very Team up. Oh, so he didn't sculpt it. It looks like he sculpted it, though. He didn't sculpt Yeah, he did sculpt it. >> Yeah, yeah. But that's a requirement now. Yeah, yeah. I'm just saying that it should should also be allowed to be done by more than one person. Right, because you you literally lose this.

Yeah, you have one one or two weeks' time, and Yeah, it sucks, dude. It's a pity. Um but this the effort in this is just mind-blowing. Yeah. Yeah. And the base The The water is the one of the best waters I've seen in a long time. Yeah, cuz it doesn't have a fish. >> this is like 10 out of 10, too. Everything about this works really well. It's uh It's a really really cool representation of that character. Mhm. Yeah, it's Oh, so so it's a character. I see. It's like a It's a character from a book series. Man, is Yeah, it's the mood I like as well. Um it doesn't show it here so much, but when I saw it first, it was like the I do like the pinks. I don't know. This this feels slightly different from the image we saw last time.

Um It felt more um am ambiotic ambience. Mhm. Yeah. Okay, I'm going to get my head in the game now. I'm going to stop fucking editing them. That's it. I promise. Right, in fact, I'm going to close the program. Okay. Yeah. So, we We actually did um Yeah, in the in the in the original video, which you can see You can see the full video on Patreon if you pay. >> [snorts] >> Um The like our our initial reactions to these pieces, and uh we were predicting which would be the sword, and I predicted um Magnus and the boy, right?

And obviously, this is the sword winner. So, [snorts] we're going to give it a little a little one down. Um I am uh I As I said, I need to see this in person to really comment on it cuz at the moment, I'm a little bit underwhelmed in in not in in in not in a too aggressive way, but I feel like when you see it in this size, it's lost its awe, maybe. Mhm. Cuz it is a fucking big model on a big-ass base, right? Um My reasons for not maybe initially picking it is mostly because of I think where I'm at as a painter, which is more We're not in painting, by the way, just in viewing.

is It's not contrast. It's not something like that. It's more just general feelings. Like Alphonsus' model had it. There was ambience. There was colors. There was interactions. There was um a feeling. Whereas, this feels much more like it's a dragon on a house, and you could take those two things away, and that, you know, the how I'm probably I'm like the house I feel like you could do a lot with that concept. Yeah. I I understand what you mean. I mean, I think even if I I like Magnus and and the Space Wolf a lot. For me, it was my my candidate.

I think this one has a lot of effort as well, and it's a very big model. It's the the base suits very well. So, it's very well constructed. I understand the choice, though. So, even if I like the other a bit more, I I understand the choice. This in hand must be very impactful because of the size and the the effort and everything is rendered well. So, it's um maybe a safer choice, if you know what I mean.

Maybe that's why you like it less. Yeah. It's more expectable. It's so expectable that I have more as a project that is very similar to this. And I was doubting in your head though or you've started it. Well, I have the bits. I bought the the stuff a few months ago. But I was doubting if now that he's done this, if I should do the mine. You know, like should I like do a base on top? If it's a zombie dragon on a house, then yeah, that's kind of played out.

Yeah, but >> could do more with the So, I don't know what you're planning on now. And if I was going to give my own brain like a free run that I could do stuff that I can't do, I would want maybe the house to be a little bit more derelict, a little bit more interaction with the house, maybe bending down more, somebody screaming, running. So, I think there's a lot you could do with the concept. >> of course. >> Yeah. I mean, it is it is pretty different. The the house is a lot bigger than this. He's not the main thing. He's just So, that's the whole whole thing. So, you're not you're answering the question.

>> Yeah, right. My point was that I I I just still want to do it even if people think that I'm just uh Yeah. building on top of this. And then you would enter it as a golden demon potentially. I mean, of course, if I do it, yes. Sure. And then and then people probably will say, "But what you need to do is just stand around your model the entire 3 days to hear what people say about your piece." It's the only way to get the honest answer. Yes. It's a good good fun 3 days as

well. Yeah. With uh with the glasses and a nose and a mustache. And what you think of that? Now, you I suppose you don't want to coax them into it, right? You just you hide there. Yeah. It's annoying when there's someone actually looks like that. It's the Family Guy sketch. Uh Martin, anything? Um I thought that this was a If there is such a thing as a typical Slayer Sword piece, a Slayer Sword winner piece, then this would be it. Uh I think it's very impressive, very impactful. Um Yeah, there's also things that stand out in a not great way for me. Things with um the rendering or I don't know, color choices maybe. But um but no, overall, it's really impressive. The building, like just the the composition, putting all of this together, and making it work is is really impressive.

What category was this? This is monster, was it? Diorama. The how of course. It's funny that I can't >> diorama by Magnus versus Logan Grimnar is dual, so those two kind of in some cases like really bleed into each other. Like Chris Clayton's uh giant hydra thing was also a dual. I guess you could easily say that I like the Caligari. Yeah. I agree. Yeah, and this is definitely a diorama, not a large model, but yeah, whatever. Yeah. Yeah, I I picked this as one of my many favorites, but um I I think Arno really likes this one, too. I think you would really like this one, too.

Yeah. It's hard not to like it, really. Yeah, it's really really good. Now, we've seen some uh unpainted photos of this as well with uh like the really kind of subtle but really efficient effective sculpting work that he's done. Um yeah, this is just amazing. I love the idea of using that mount as a Zinch creature. It's a really good idea. I would like the bird theme. >> [snorts] >> And um yeah, the base is really cool as well. It's awesome to do something so minimalist and kind of giving the impression that it continues down.

So, yeah, I love this. I I think Go on. One of the things that it's very common in in all of our pics is that they are all very rounded pieces. Like they they have very good silhouettes. They have very um good color composition, most of them at least. Mhm. Um they are they suit the characters very well. You know, they are they are not just very good piece very good paintings in a very in a good base, you know, they are Mhm. characters and Yeah. That's I really like this. I really like that they have um effort on the on the character side, not only on the painting side.

Yeah, that that absolutely. And I think having an evocative composition and a and a and a base that really kind of uh add something doesn't always have to mean uh an insane amount of work and sculpting and little greeblies and extra bits. Like I I think we were talking about last time like the effect that some of Albert's pieces have had and maybe also Chris Clayton's stuff from 2022. And there's there's been those kind of I guess you could call it trends. And so, there's something kind of refreshing about a base like this, which I think is really evocative, but it's not like trying too hard. It's just it works for what it is, but it also this is a good reminder that the miniature is I want to say the most important thing, but literally the most important thing.

That's the focal point. And if you can like create a good foundation and a good framework for the miniature, then that's kind of all you need. Um this could have had way more uh going on, but I don't I really don't think it needs it. I I agree. And and actually it's a very it's a very important point because if you realize most of the of the really good winners, like the the really good ones, all of them have amazing bases. Mhm. And on most of them, if you take the bases away, the the figure lacks a lot.

And in this case, I don't think it would happen because in this case, it's minimalistic. But in and and it's not a a criticism at all on the other on the other entries. It's just to showcase how massively important is to do a a good base that suits the character in some cases. A good base gives you a demon like straight away. Um a shit. What was I going to say? I said Tibo. How I know how to say that name by the way cuz I know him. But otherwise, that would be Tibout.

Um like how the fuck is he finding all this time to do these fucking models? Yeah, it's impressive. Like it's he's it's it's it's I hope it's a passion and not some obligatory thing he's like cuz Maybe he doesn't sleep. That would explain it. Sleep and also hyper forming. Um Um it's yeah, it's it's Hold on. I have clicked next. There you go. It's not done. I think we were all unanimous in in picking this out straight away. >> Yeah. This was This could have been all of our top three. Yeah. Damn. Like the fact that the I can almost imagine him treading on the little hover thing.

And it's slightly moving as the dampness or whatever try and You can like hear the engine of that thing and yeah, fucking cool. Yeah. Yeah, it's the idea Yeah, it's like All right, go ahead, Arno. What I What I What I think this the whole thing is the idea. So, the the execution is amazing and of course, but everything here is just the idea. The the silhouette, the idea, the It's cool. character. You can imagine this the scene so fucking well. And I hate these guys in lore, but that is cool. And it's obviously conversion with this helmet holding, I think. I don't know.

I should >> I'm pretty sure the most of like the legs, the arm holding the helmet, probably the plume of the helmet, all of that is probably sculpted. It's very cool. Does make me not regret my life choices, but imagine I had have gone back 20 years and actually cared. I mean, there's no You can still start now, right? Yeah, but yeah. Yeah, why not? Cuz I don't care. Apparently. I've uh I've spent like the last um 2 weeks just coding. I'm just hyper focused on on like really engrossed in it at the moment. And um Because you like you want it? Yeah, I like enjoying it. Yeah, yeah. That's great. It's fucking amazing, yeah.

Um So, yeah, Alik Kalam Aluhu is really I'm liking I like this a lot. Mhm. Yeah. He has done a good >> Yeah, I love this piece. This is It's one of those things I I feel like like not to be too hyperbolic, but I feel like this is going to stick with people. Me anyway. This is like I'll remember this. You could You could buy it and have it in your cabinet. Mhm. Ah, Michelle Waldal. Yeah, this was one of my favorites as well.

Um It's reminiscent of some of the stuff that Andy's done in the last few years. Um This is maybe slightly more aggressive than um No, but it's still really it's it's a really great idea and it's a really lovely paint work, but I think especially the sculpting here again is just crazy how much of this is hand sculpted. One second. Yeah, he has to ignore all this. Ignore it all. They're not spoilers. Well, They are spoilers. What what I have to do is Just just let it happen. I wanted to find the I've got I've got the sculpted version.

Ah. But it was not one of the seven photos you scrolled through now. Well, that's not my fault. I can't take no responsibility. Go on. Crack on. Crack on. Um Yeah, it's just but it's it's a nice uh the whole thing is nice. The idea is great. It's really again like evocative the story is kind of right there. You can see the like magic effect in her eyes and on the hand and then coming into that the bottom of that magical wolf thing and the fact that it's got like roots kind of growing out of it or into it really works. I love the branch the the tree trunks literally framing the models.

I think sometimes that you don't have to be more complicated than that. Just create that really simple like one on each side. Um >> [snorts] >> And and then the painting is amazing, too. The way he's rendered that fur is just awesome. Yeah, it's quite nice. GW could have sculpted like that. Um >> [snorts] >> The I'm pretty sure it's the wolf some of the wolf fur isn't as good as this. Um No. I'm pretty sure it's based on a magic card. I think I said it I did I didn't fact-check that or anything, right? But I'm I'm pretty sure I've seen it in No, I think I showed you the magic card.

It's a partly one of the inspirations that he's had is a magic card. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully. She has balls of steel to to sculpt almost a whole wolf. Ah, yeah. Yeah, I mean the work that he did on the wizard lady is one thing cuz that's the kind of stuff that he's done a little bit before. There's like the hair. There's definitely parts of the clothing. It's just that that to me feels like a really ambitious conversion. But then the wolf is like I found a lower body I like. I found a head I like and then the whole upper body including those branches and like all of the fur texture is sculpted.

Interesting. Are they are they GW kits then the the legs and the head? Mhm. It's based off of uh one of the the the wolf rider goblins for AOS. It's like their leader. So you can kind of see the pose of it is that and then I think the head is from Belladonna Vol. Because that's the head that I used the the wolf that I used for that AOS. I [snorts] think that's the head. Belladonna. Bella motherfucking donna. Um Yeah, it's quite cool. I mean >> [snorts] >> it feels like as soon as you can get sculpting into your arsenal you open up a lot of doors, obviously, right? Um to be able to go to new heights. It's a it's a funny it's a funny thing to look at these entries and compare this and Alfonso's one because his is completely scratch built.

Which I could never even start to do something like that. It's the whole thing is like the pose. The he did the armature, the base, like all of that is just made from nothing by him from clay. But this is like a really different but I feel no less impressive discipline cuz it's taking pieces and using stuff that you already have and then making that kind of all fit together. Cuz I think if you showed this to anyone even like people in the hobby, you wouldn't instantly think like it well, that's a that's a conversion, right? Only if you knew the range well, right?

Yeah, exactly. Which I mean like yeah, we're sitting here. We're like oh, this little bit comes from that. But like I feel like most people instinctively would just be like what model is that? Where do you where did he buy that, you know? Yeah. Um and that's it's crazy. And like Lucas's one you were you were asking like which parts were sculpted. The fact that you would even Oh, the other the Holstrom. Ah, sorry. The other Lucas. Yeah, Lucas Holstrom. That's amazing to me that he was able to like make that so seamless. He did like the muscles in the legs and all these little bits that puts it together. Shown a photo of it but I was Yeah, it's like loads of little bits around the

body that he sculpted and it all just kind of works seamlessly into one thing. Very good. And this one was also I I I think a common favorite, right? Yeah, it's it's it's pretty fucking good, isn't it? To be honest. >> These the the water base yeah, it's One of my favorite water bases ever. And again, I think if you put this in a in a normal field and everything is amazing. The paint job is amazing as well. The rock. But if you put this on a on a green grass field the the figure itself loses so so fucking much.

Because this what it sells you is a moment. Mhm. It's not the paint job. The paint job All of the paint jobs are great. Mhm. Um but what this sells is is literally everything. Yeah, the the drama and the dynamism and the the weight of it. Yeah, that that actually looks really cool. Wow, that looks amazing. Yeah, no I Um There's no there's nothing about this that I don't love. Mhm. Like like the the the water base the fact that it actually fucking looks like a splash. It's black for one against the stone. Like if you take you could take away that model and that in itself would be a cool base. Weird.

And then you can put literally anything Yeah, exactly. A frog. The base without the model has has a better like It sells potential than the model without the base. It's it's it's it's fucking impressive. And and then you add the scratch built I think it's scratch built um sculpt on top. >> it was and then someone said that it was. So he built that Well, I know he sculpts all his own shit, right? Which he still owes me a kickstarter for, by the way, from 4 years ago. Um and that's not his fault. I just forgot to give him my address. Uh and then told him 2 years ago. But anyway, so he sculpts a lot anyway. And then he was like So obviously this is his Yeah. This must be his his favorite artwork or something cuz he's done it fucking I'd love to see this from other angles and stuff.

Um I'm not sure >> [clears throat] >> I'm not sure if I understand it well, but I'm I'm slightly confused about the front legs. I'm not sure if He's on he's rearing up, isn't he? If I remember the artwork. They look a little bit they are a bit off in my opinion. But I I just discovered You're saying the position of the front legs compared to the chest of the horse? And the wings maybe. Yeah. Yeah, I see what you're saying. But I only saw it after looking at it for a while. So it's not something that I saw. It's just like I mean this for me this is a 10/10.

Mhm. It's I I Hold on. I'm trying to delete the other white bits, but I really don't need to. You really don't need me to. There you go. Um Yeah, I'm a huge a huge fan of this one. Um I have to say this year's Golden Demon in America. I've always thought America has been subpar. Um like because American painters aren't as good, obviously, and everyone knows that. No. Really though, the quality isn't as good as the European one.

And I think this year is is counter to that. However, most of these painters seem to be European. >> Yeah, not American. Most people yeah, most people have come from Europe. But that's still good cuz it will up everyone's game. I think it's not just about the the winners, which to be fair, these winners are from from Europe, most of them. But the amount. I think the amount of of good entries that there is in Europe is so so so much higher. It makes it makes it difficult.

Not the the the level itself. But the level is Oh, you mean the level of the winners? No, I have to agree. It's it's like the the top tier in this competition, the winners are absolutely mind-blowing. But then all of the stuff that came in fourth and fifth is maybe not as mind-blowing as it was in Essen. Is that what you're saying or not? Yeah. >> [clears throat] >> In Essen you you can have six or nine choices for the three. And it's like yeah, I to be fair, it doesn't even matter what you pick because all of them are are great.

Yeah. We we know that cuz a lot of the winners Well, not a lot, but some of the winners from America are from last year's Essen. Yeah, that that does So yeah, it says a lot, right? Yeah, Lucas was in I would argue he came in fourth in in this 40K squad category. The Holstrom. It's a very Oh, shit. No, that was literally we're going to we're going to watch. Well, I was going to say he's a very wholesome name. He does have a very Holstrom name. I agree with that. Is he from your neck of He is, right? He's from Sweden. He's from Sweden, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you are. I guess. I'm pretty sure you fucking are cuz I was talking to someone else and and I was like are you from Sweden? You weren't. And the guy the guy was like uh no, I'm from Denmark. Mhm. And I was like I was like I don't know what like so Sweden. Um he didn't laugh. Yeah, there is almost no difference whatsoever except that they're much much worse in every way. This was also my one of my choices for favorites. It's just it's a simple thing, but I really like it because it's such a simple thing. It's just nice.

It's just nice and clean. I love that miniature. So what so it's a real model, yeah? Okay. Yeah, it's straight up out of the box Necromunda model. I've seen it used for other things. Someone saw the other the other day someone had it and I was like a an officer model for their guard army and it's just like unconverted that looks exactly like what it is. I wanted to do myself for Golden Demon and now I'm like maybe not. Same as Arno then with the bird. Yeah, a little bit like an except Arno had an idea. My idea was just to paint this model. Like I guess I still could.

But yeah, I just threw it in as like one of my favorites. It was Uh I I like this idea for a base because this is not what you think about when you see seeing Necromunda. But it's a nice reminder of the lore of Necromunda being the underhive and the gangs and the fucking graffiti and the dirt and all of that is like that's where the kind of the game takes place. But this also exists in the lore. So there's also like the upper levels of Necromunda and all that.

Posh cunts with their drapes. And I like that. And I like that it's it's it's like you can kind of tell that it's in a room with a big ceiling and there's like natural wood and this curtain and I thought that was a cool idea. What do you think of the rat addition? Uh, I always enjoy a good rat. Yeah, I'm I would be interested like cuz I know that these guys are like aristocrats or kind of big cheeses, right? Within and they have their own inner battles and I mean there's a lot of I mean how deep is the lore? I mean when you've got a 40-year-old thing, but still these guys existed from pretty early on.

I guess they were just spouting. >> I have no idea of the lore of Necromunda to be fair. I think the yeah, the idea of the upper hive basically. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean I'm not sure about this guy specifically if he's an I don't know if he's a named character, but I I think the the idea of like the aristocracy of Necromunda and the posh cunts, that's always existed. That's been a core part of it. But they also have maybe not in the Necromunda worlds, but the the families as are the knights have families. Um, the the ships, the battleships that you have like they're owned by these giant families. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And they'll own hives as well, right? And this might be the son of one of the blah blah blahs or so. Exactly. This could be like a baron from one of the knight houses or something. That's true. So it kind of it's it's essentially it's just like a 40K nobleman rather than something from Necromunda. So it's I always find it interesting that like you have space marines, but then the space marines obviously emperor, but they're all funded by these guys basically. So the lore is kind of cool.

But then they they only answer to themselves, but then you have the Inquisition which are above space like it's cool that that you have all this I've never read any of the books, right? Cuz Horus Heresy is You've never read any of the books? No, I don't know. I don't believe I've only read older books cuz I don't want to know about the lore. Yeah, but they might two different things, I guess. But I don't like to humanize them. A what? Yeah, there's a lot of good 40K fiction and most of the best stuff is the whole point is to humanize everything whether it's like space marines or the Eisenhorn books or Yeah, I I'm not sure if humanize is the word, but to make them flawed like because when when you think about space marines, you you think about them almost as robots.

But Yeah, but I think yeah, that is to me not normal. I think I think that is what happens when you humanize them is they become they become they have emotions and motivations. But they don't have that shit I know about. But they do clearly cuz the books if you read it they do. But like Ready Player One, no. What was the film the Netflix the TV show the the small thing with the the fucking Amazon Secret level. Secret level, there you go. Oh, shit. Yeah. The Secret Level episode. You look at that, right? And like it's interesting that I mean it's a story, right? So they can do whatever they want. But all the space marines got roasted like fucking peanuts except for our boy whoever he is, right?

I think yeah, that's Titus. I think >> Titus is from the game as well, right? Space Marine. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think that's what that's some of the lesser interesting the less interesting lore is the Titus stuff cuz a lot of that is just like him Yeah, yeah. and when they disagree on things they're like, how should we kill the tyranids? That's not quite as deep as you could go with it. Yeah, the lore on Titus is not is not bad. The first game was really interesting. The second one is a bit more plain in terms of story.

Um, but yeah, that there's not that much anyway. It's just a small there's so many better characters than in 40K. But yeah, [clears throat] all of them have feelings and but still they are so Yeah, and they always in in the when they find humans the humans are nothing and when humans see them they are like gods. Well, the episode is really good. The one with the salamander. And you really see how they treat and they're like, oh fuck we're saved cuz the fucking space marines are here. But then we play tabletop and and know and I kill five space marines like like that. A zooman in shooting kills five terminators.

But that that's supposed to be the the the kind of the the two different sides of it. You're supposed to imagine like uh, one hormagaunt coming into your city would kill like 500 people before anything could stop it. And in the game you play 70 hormagaunts against a squad of space marines. That's kind of the point. That's how we're supposed to But then three space marines can fuck up like they're like a mini army, right? Yeah. Yeah, I think there's a uh Emperor's Children book where three space marine three chaos space marines destroy a world. Like three fucking guys.

Um There is a there's the Emperor's Snakes book where there's one. They just send one space marine to a world that's been overrun with the dark elder and they've essentially just like made the planet their own and then one guy comes along and he's like, I'll take care of this. It takes him a while, but Yeah, but that's that's that's that's >> It's a little silly. That's supposed to be like five space marines, but still >> No, but a whole fleet of dark elder they've got fucking metal weapons. They've got teleporting guys. They've got Anyway. I hear what you're saying. There is plot armor in books very heavily in the like like the Morgan Ra killed an entire tyranid fleet.

Like that's not going to happen. No, it's not going to Do you know what I mean? One space marine going and killing a world of dark elder he'll fall asleep before he gets there. Anyway, yeah. I get what

But yeah, that that and then you got the custodies who are like fuck anyway. >> [snorts] >> Rafael Boyon. Yeah, we took a little slight segway >> I'm glad we did though. I I enjoyed But we're back now. Yeah, good good detour. We're back with Rafael Boyon. This is my one single one favorite entry of the whole thing. Uh, the more I look at it it's more and more my favorite. This is So we were talking about bases just then and like like Arnauld was saying if you remove this base and you just put this guy girl on the little plinth by herself like Yeah. It's still a it's still an amazing paint job, but I I I know the entry is the base. For sure. If you if you remove the guy or well or the girl Yeah. I I would still give it a prize.

Yeah, definitely. No, and I think um this is also like a such a great example, I think of how to make the most over the top overly complicated base that doesn't feel too busy. Like somehow this isn't too busy. If this was described to me, I would say that's the worst idea I've heard. You need you need to dial it back. But then seeing it's like, no this actually works. It's got very clear gap or or areas, I feel, doesn't it? And he's also I mean it's a bit sneaky, but he's added animals creatures into the into the quote unquote dead space.

So he's kind of got around and you've also got contrast between it. You've got like the green >> [snorts] >> coming up to the models and then the tree like it's framing and painting and interesting stuff going on. So it's One of my favorite things with the narrative which is such a simple thing, but it it it wouldn't I'm not sure not everyone would have thought of this, but the fact that the archer is running in one direction and shooting in the other looks like she's being potentially chased by something. And all of the critters enforce that because they're also running away from something.

So that I mean maybe that was like an obvious thing, but to me that's like one of the best things about it is you you make that connection even if you don't instantly think about it. There's something going on and he's picked up on the fact that that model is moving in one direction shooting in the other. So it's not it's not aggressive in the way that some models will just charge forward and attack that way. But this is something that's like she's being hunted by something or maybe even just like, you know moving and shooting. But anyway, you can see that that flow it comes through with all the critters as well. I really love that. Yeah, I think it's it's what we said again that it's more than just painting. It's just Yeah. It's a scene. It's a moment and I think it at this point where the the miniature industry everyone paints very well. Like painting is is just, you know It's well versed, I guess, isn't it?

Yeah. And the difference is on the extra on the outside of the painting. On the idea the the yeah, the character and everything. And this this one is one of the best examples. Yeah. Yeah, this is like the this this is something that I feel like I would aspire to. This is like the the bar. It's if I could do and obviously I'll never be able to sculpt anything like this, but just the general vibe and quality of this, I guess. Well, you know, he's he's got a few years on me in terms of sculpting 3D.

Oh, 3D. Holy shit. Yeah, well. Well, any kind but I mean that this is the the whole base is done in um Well, it's scratch built in a computer, I guess. >> If you were if we we Martin if we just imagine that we're children we're seven and we need to learn >> do that, yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. It's That's why you were in prison. Um if you if you imagine you're seven you you and you're like, oh, I want to do something we we we just fucking do it. We would sculpt the shittiest thing in the world, right?

But what's that? No, we've talked about this and then you're absolutely right. The fear of of sucking is such a crippling thing. What are you going to say right now? The imagine you are you are 85 and you are uh in your deathbed and there's a genie that comes. Yeah. Uh uh yeah, let's say 85 being generous. And there's a genie that comes and and says, "Um I'll give you 45 years back Mhm. if you know, if you want it." And and then you say yes, of course.

And and now you are that that moment, right? So you have all these >> right. Okay, yeah. I'm totally getting you. >> Oh, yeah, I explained it like shit, obviously. >> No, no, no. It's great. >> But what would you do if you if you thought did they did they miss something that I didn't do? You have a lot of fucking time in your head considering you are not going to die in 10 days. Yeah. I agree and I'm going to definitely learn that now because of that story. Another motivational story >> for anyone. Yeah.

I mean there's a lot a lot of truth to that with with regards to painting competitions and anyone who's listening to this who isn't us is like it's easy to be intimidated by this stuff. Uh like I won a gold in October in Golden Demon and I look at this stuff and I'm like, I'm done. I don't stand a fucking chance. And it's not to be like self-deprecating, well, a little bit but it's it's mostly it's just like this is so crazy. A lot of the entries we've looked at now it's just so so good and impressive and so it's so much work. But it's like like it's like Arno saying this is never too late. You can always just go for it and it's always just about um doing whatever whatever you think is cool.

Which and just accept that sometimes Most of the times is just ambition. It's it's just these people um all the what all they have in common is that they they have the ambition of doing it and

they even if they don't know how to do it they just try. Yeah, no, it's it's actually very true. That's something that I'm really impressed with by uh Andy Wardle because uh I'm not saying that anyone in this hobby, not Raphael, not Lucas Holmstrom, not anyone was like always as good as they are now but with um with Andy especially like we can look at his Golden Demon entries from the last 10 years. Like 10 years he's been doing this.

Uh and me as well and looking at those entries and like the little increments in like bravery and trying things and conversions getting more and more refined to the point now where he's doing all of the sculpting work. That only happens because he tried to do that. That's how that's how it works. And like if you want a specific Yeah. Um Lucas is even even a better example of this, hot man. Mhm. Because he he doesn't have uh 10 years on on his back, right? Mhm. He's just he's getting so good so quickly because he he is very ambitious and he's like I don't know how to sculpt half a half a um demon prince but I'll just try it.

Yeah. The first time was amazing but the second time is fucking nuts. Yeah, yeah. It's just that ambition of yeah, I don't know how to do it so I will learn while I do it. Um That [clears throat] that thing I think that's one of the most important um mindsets to have. So I noticed something not to do with models. Um Now I'm combining AI with um with coding, right?

Mhm. So I'd have an idea for coding and in then a small thing, let's say I need to add comments to a thing. It would realistically take me maybe a week, week and a half of work. Um and that's like maybe five, six hours a day, right? I told AI do comments. It did it in about 25 minutes, okay? The whole system. Um but the main point here was all all the thing that it made me realize is now I'm bored or I've unlocked um this bottleneck cuz cuz I don't want to code comments for 10 days, right? I could do it this quick.

So now it's really pushing my um creativity. I'm I'm coming up with ideas rather than being limited by implementation and it got me thinking onto painting. Like I've never once in my life been bored of painting. I've always been chasing this thing, right? And it made me realize that if I could get bored of painting I would have and but still do it I would have to come up with new shit to do, right? The issue is so and that's like cuz I think I think I I realized cuz you said it Arno, like you just can't do the same thing again, not really cuz it's boring.

>> Yeah, yeah, no, I actually am very bored. That's why I try to tickle my interest in some other ways. >> It's it's sad and impressive at the same time. >> [laughter] >> But no, but Yeah. >> But it makes sense. It makes sense. Whatever you do when you do it enough times you will get bored of it. So I I need to it was a realization, like whatever it was. I need to somehow get to painting cuz I'm I'm This is this could be a me of it or something, I don't know. We're already 46 minutes into the Golden Demon section but we could always make releases. We're not going to record that second episode now, by the way, cuz I got to leave in 40 minutes. So we may as well make this drawn out. But um like how is it that you can get bored? I think I'm always I'm >> [snorts] >> Should we finish the Golden Demon and then jump into it? Let's do that. Let's do that.

I think we are in an episode and doesn't matter if we have something in the background. We can just talk. Okay, cool. >> I think what you what you're thinking of, Jamie, is is I can articulate getting bored of something. Yeah. [clears throat] What? I I I I had I didn't want to finish my thought cuz I was like, let's not do it cuz I'll jump in but >> No, then finish your thought then. Go ahead. Go ahead. Say what you're going to say. >> I'll jump in, right? So so um with painting I'm so focused on the issues that I have um I'm not free. I can't do this. I can't a bit like what you're saying, Martin. Um I'm I'm I'm stuck on that. I can't do that thing because oh, it's too much work for me to learn. So already you know my mindset is not of one that can get bored because it's saying it can't do this stuff. So I'm I'm I'm creating um roadblocks and then even when I am painting I'm constantly worrying about those things that I'm not uh able to do or haven't done or or or want to do rather than to be bored you kind of have to be good at it. Now, that's not quite what I'm

thinking but to be bored you have to have achieved what you already wanted to achieve, right? Mhm. I've got all these things that I'm saying that I want to try which means I by proxy I can never be bored. Mhm. So I don't know. It's almost like maybe I need to at the risk of repeating ourselves I almost need to not think about anything and paint a model. No shit. Yeah. No shit. Well, well, I think one of the it's very it's extremely common and we we've all done it.

But something that happens in our in our industry is that we paint to show off. Mhm. So we paint to show show off a non-metallic, to show off how we how neat we are, to show off how well rendered the skin is. And this is just It's true. a little bit of what makes painting, right? Because painting is this is what we are seeing now is is a whole base with with an idea, with with meaning. The the painting who who fucking cares about the painting? The the whole thing is beautiful and it's it's a piece of art. Mhm.

And does it have a mind-blowing non-metallic? It doesn't. Does it have a mind-blowing OSL? It doesn't. And and even the back that it's another complete ambient that in my opinion that doesn't matter as much as how beautiful this is by itself. So the back is more of a show off but it's just an extra. It's not the main thing of of the of the perfection of this piece, right?

And we and me included I I have done this for many years where I paint figures just to show off something like to do this non-metallic or to do this X instead of thinking about like real pieces of art you know, art. Um but also thinking about this in this way, like showing off specific things makes you learn these specific things. So, it's like I'm going to learn this piece of the puzzle and I'm going to show this off.

And then when you have all these different pieces of the puzzle then you can do the big stuff and that's where you get bored because you already have them all. Yeah. And then you can start building puzzles um you know. So, I think yeah, in both ways it's good but

Yeah. Well, I think I've come up with a new life motto. Oh. With your Everything works out. Just what? [laughter] Right, that's fine. We all know that one and it's true and that you can't argue it cuz it's just fact now. Well, I did but >> [laughter] >> And um I'd like yeah, I want to get a update on that but yeah um and I I think the new one for painting specifically is is it be bored. It fucks smoothness. Be bored. Because being bored it solves all of my problems.

It really does. I might be too loud. I just went red there on the thing but Can I say one thing about boredom though? Please hit me. You have I believe and you've mentioned this a tiniest little bit of ADHD. And a lot of us I don't know if you have Yeah, this is this is a I'm as shocked as you are. A lot of us have um like a an inclination to um distractions and just being what we think is bored. We think like well, I'm bored of this. I've done this now. I want to do something else. I don't think that's exactly the same thing as what Ronald was talking about.

Well, I coined the expression. It's diff- It's it's a very good very good model but I think there's a danger of thinking like I've done this now and I'm bored of it. So, I'm going to move on when actually you might I don't know. >> [snorts] >> I'll explain >> have done that thing. You might still not have done that thing. Maybe you're just impatient. I don't think that's the same thing. I think boredom is like literally I can I can I think I can confidently say that I'm slightly bored of the kind of box art of heavy metal style and that doesn't mean I'm not enjoying it.

Actually, I do. I think it's fine but that's like boredom because I've done it tons. Yeah, should I just find line between boredom and get being used to it, right? It's like an in between. Well, let me just explain my own catchphrase for a second then. Yeah. Um so, much like Alfonso had to explain fucks smoothness because obviously this will go viral. Um Yeah. Basically, in my mind um be bored means strip out all of the stuff that is in your all the noise is probably a good way of describing it. You you strip the noise out, okay? And by noise I mean all the bullshit that is is is stopping me from painting. Uh my M&M's not good. My basing's not good. My testicles hurt when I pull on them.

Um you know, I don't have enough brush. All this shit. So, all I'm going to do is paint a model. And I'm not going to think past that. Get down, paint, right? And do what do cuz I've always been like let's change my style. Let's do this, right? Yeah, okay. I can do that if I want to but I don't have to do that. The point is sit down and paint. And then by proxy after I've done one model, two models, I will be bored of of that process of that it's the same. I'm not doing anything new and and then I can say okay, I want to maybe maybe focus on something specifically but the point is I'm at a point where I can't keep doing what I'm doing already.

Yeah, I think just to keep with the analogies that you love so much. It's like you you are looking at the pieces of the puzzle without knowing the full picture that they do. Mhm. And then you cannot keep going because you don't know what what they make. You don't know what is what is the non-metallic doing. What is the you know, it's a lot more important to to know the whole thing and to go for the whole thing. Like this one like this is a so such a good example.

There is obviously when I say this uh understand me, please but there's nothing super complex about it in the sense that there's no crazy Kirill non-metallic or or you know, it's just a very good piece that we could all do in different ways. Like we could all do a forest base with a with a guy on top, right? We could all do that in different ways obviously. He did an amazing sculpted base.

But if we put some effort we can all do this kind of um artworks. And we just don't have to think about Yeah. Because this this is something I I find myself thinking a lot when I paint when I plan Golden Demon. I always [snorts] think I have I struggle a lot choosing pieces. Which which figure I will do. Because when I I see a figure that I really like it's like yeah, but this one doesn't have that much skin to show off or this one doesn't have that much metallic to show off or you know, and I keep thinking about this.

And then this what this makes me is just not do anything. Yeah. And that's what be bored means. Yeah. Yeah, I yeah, I think it's not the right It's definitely the right one. It's it's if [clears throat] anything It's it's it couldn't be better on our to be honest. I don't think I could have coined a better saying myself cuz it is it's everything that it means. It's it's like everything works out doesn't just mean oh, don't worry about it. It's all going to work out. It's it's it doesn't mean that at all and and be bored doesn't mean just sit in a corner and look at a wall and then you can produce great artwork. No, it's it's there's and so anyway, so the first thing we strip out all the noise, okay?

And then the second part was um if you do actually paint cuz you have to paint to be bored you're not bored, you're bored of what you are already doing is the key point, right? So, um that's it. There you go. So, that all Yep. So, another epiphany then. Good. Great. Good job. Yeah, thanks, mate. I [snorts] I thought one of you were going to just be like yeah, that is the best and well done but no, you weren't. You didn't.

Yeah, will I paint will I sit down now that I know I can be bored? It does take a bit of the pressure off. Um what does being like be bored the saying? Like cuz there's a lot of pressure on us as as three professional painters and and and obviously we've got the public eye on us. Mhm. Yeah. So, you know, I walk into a show and everyone's expecting me to be the best. I'm I'm not the best. I'm just a man. I can't do it all. Do you know what I mean? Um and then I get my paint job out. And I yeah, you are just a man, right? Next um Oh, well, it's annoying it starts with that and that and that.

>> It's sneaky and cool though cuz it would just tease us what's coming. Shit. Yeah. Shit. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. That's Oh my god. Let's go back to like that one. Yeah. Okay. He's already done the black background. This was not me. Um Okay, so fucking hell, it looks better here than it did in the GW photo. I like the angle though from the GW photo but um this angle the light what is fucking hell. It's an impressive piece, man. Having seen all the close-ups of the armor and uh all the shiny shit, it's it's a insanely well painted.

Yeah. It's my favorite of the contest by by a mile. Like >> [snorts] >> Yeah. This this is what what in my opinion what mini painting should be, right? It's the the final boss. Yeah. Just a really cool scene a moment that is like you can see this in a in Avengers movie. Uh You know, it's like Thanos against Iron Man or something. Yeah. Well, in theory Magnus should absolutely destroy this Space Wolf, right?

Well, in the books they they make Magnus a bitch. He is I mean, he's super powerful in ones and he's a bitch in other ones. Yeah. Because who is the strange that he wouldn't Space Wolf? Logan Grimnar is the chapter master of the Space Wolves. So, he's he's the most impressive Space Wolf. After the Yeah, Leman Russ. Who was [clears throat] the thing that Magnus is? Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and they they had a when Magnus uh came back and when Roboute Guilliman came back, they had a duel and Roboute Guilliman is a primarch and they tussled and they and they and it was pretty even and then with a lot of hard work they managed to banish Magnus. So, Magnus is a badass. He's supposed to basically be able to eat Logan Grimnar.

So, yeah, Jamie, you do make a good Because he's a primarch, right? Like Yeah, and also he's like made he's he's more powerful than like a Xenos greater demon. He should be able to just like blink and Logan Grimnar turns into a Well, one of the most powerful psykers. he's a primarch plus also because he has the demon. So, Exactly. So, he's a primarch demon prince primarch with and also the most um powerful machine sorcerer person ever. >> Like if he got shot by like let's say 55 dragon melters, right?

And he dies, does he die or does he go back to the warp? No, he uh he comes back. Yeah, I see. So, he he >> They do that in uh they do that in uh in the one of the last Horus Heresy books. They uh open fire on Angron and they just they obliterate him. They just turn him into a like a wet pile and then he like he magically just manifests again and he's more angrier angrier than ever more angrier than ever. I think he's more angrier than ever. That would have fucked him >> I like very much that this piece makes us makes us talk like like kids.

Like it's real. Like like you he would win this like you know these things is what I really like about figure painting pieces. This this motivates me a lot and I I cannot say this like easily. Yeah. More often. Yeah, I mean like like we go through but I mean fucking hell. I think I think what I like this more I don't think I would have liked this three or four years ago. Um I wouldn't have understood the I don't even it's not maybe it's nuance but the nuances of there's actually color direction and different feelings going on. Like I said uh you can't really see it in this angle but yeah okay I didn't want to see that. All right, fuck it. I fucked it. The fact that on on on the left hand side here um you see the Am I recording this screen?

I think I am. The rim lights? Yeah, well you it's cold, right? You've got the really good contrasting of cold and and always they're on ice but Grimnar or whatever he's called is is super warm and the and everything like I know it's the whole piece, right? It's the whole reason why it works. It's but it's just it's done well and I feel the coldness when you go away from the the thing and and not to mention the fucking conversions on on these guys. Like take away paint job and the feeling they're huge conversions. I think I now mentioned the and I'm not I've I don't know exactly what it means but you mentioned that Rafael's piece isn't very complex.

Mhm. And I could agree with that. I I could see how stage by stage I could put that together but this I like I wouldn't know where to begin. Yeah, in my opinion this is in another league in in many aspects like painting wise it's on its own league. There's I don't think there is anything in the in the contest with as much complexity in the painting as this one. Yeah. Um Yeah, I agree with complexity. I wouldn't say better because I think that's so subjective but I I have to agree with complexity like the it's insane just what's what's happening in that piece is just ridiculous. There's Yeah, again I wouldn't even know where to begin. Like all of the light going on all of the different colors um and to do all of that so well and still maintain like the kind of the the composition and I've always really appreciated just how like the center the very center of this piece when Jamie can stop fucking around is the flame is just the very center of this model is

that flaming axe. There you go. Yeah. Which is awesome. I mean I love it and this is this is partly where I want to get to um but again because I need to be bored I don't have that statement. Um

but I love the feeling the feeling of the colors. Yeah, I suppose that's the cold side, right? Basically. Mhm. You really really like instantly feel the difference. Yeah. This this could be to the painting a cover of a [clears throat] of a codex and Yeah. Mhm. people will love it. That's There you go. That's why I was trying to give you this view cuz I was too zoomed in before. Um so he's gone to town. So so this is all loose and very anti um how I consider golden demon, right? Like um is it doesn't have these they're not brush strokes but they're just not blended, right? They're just they're just how I feel like Very noisy.

Yeah, and I love it. It's noisy but I think it is very it's blended in most places not maybe not in a all of them but because you don't you cannot see brush strokes. You can see shapes. Yeah, yeah. Mhm. But you cannot see brush strokes. You can in a couple of places but in most of them there's a lot of work of integrating and and small blending and Mhm. this type of work is super difficult because you cannot erase all this noise and it's very easy to erase all this noise if you blend too much.

So, it's actually I think it's technically very complex. >> [snorts] >> Obviously in concept it's even more complex. What have I seen? I haven't seen anybody try to do this level of um NMM on uh penis before. On what? On fucking Magnus on this on my of course. Like it's it's or if they have it's been maybe the other the other way around, right? Maybe a Richard Gray style NMM which is ultra blended ultra smooth but still feels it but like yeah.

This is I really like that he changed the nipple horns for scars. >> even notice that, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's actually really good. Yeah. It helps very much because the nipple horns would be in the middle of everything. They're in lore though, are they? The nipple nubs. I think in the lore he has the ability to change size and shape. I see. So, they literally wanted to have him nipple horns. Absolutely. That was someone's keen wish.

Yeah. Actually looks quite cool. I didn't get to see it before but the the fire looks fiery. I I absolutely hate the axe though. I think this is fucking shit. Um Yeah, maybe it's the It's the sculpt. Yeah, the sculpt The sculpt has it's sculpted the cracks in it. I think I would have filled those in. Yeah. Um You know, we're allowed to get more losses so there you go. Relieving things and not actually converting some I think he's he's allowed that. Given how much he's And those horns are his real horns on the model, are they? Or are they the nipple horns?

No, no. They're on the model, yeah. Yeah, okay, cool. Yeah, I'm I'm Magnus in my opinion is a fucking bitch and um and he should just do more stuff. Cuz is he even evil? Is he evil? I mean yeah. Would he kill a school of babies to save like just for fun? Now, probably I yeah. He's he's he's been given a few really solid opportunities to uh I mean in the heresy not at this point but before he turned to kill not not to not kill babies but to to come back to be a good guy.

And he was and he was and he was being a pussy. He was being a pussy. >> what you're already evil. You can't really like why would you go back? You'll be like well, no I'm fucking evil. What what I don't want to go back. >> was not. He was He wasn't evil. He was trying to get do a good thing and then he got pushed. Yeah. Well, he should have just whoever it was should have listened to Eldrad. So, there I've got no sympathy for these cunts to be honest with you. Mhm. It was all the emperor's fault. The emperor was a cunt. Exactly. It was the emperor's fault. I'm pretty sure Magnus spoke to Eldrad about it. It's it's a whole thing. Magnus? Who's Magnus? Is that it? Oh, that's Magnus. Fuck. Wait. Yeah, right.

>> [laughter] >> Oh, shit. Right, we shouldn't talk

because now that we're finished we're going to insert this into All right, you're going to Yeah, however I'll I'll just stop. All right, we're back. >> [snorts] >> Um so we mhm thought of the day? Yeah. I've got three fucking now. I've got I mean there's nine now, right? And I've had I've had some good ones. So, one through nine in no particular order. Three. Three. Oh, I thought you I thought you literally meant do three of them.

No, no. I was I was I'm I've played this game before and you ask for one and I went number three. Have we done this one? Driving through London. I mean it's so old now. Driving through the countryside with rain happy versus London gray and sad. No, you've you've mentioned driving through the countryside and being happy. It's amazing. I've heard nothing about London and sadness. Okay, it's interesting. Now, I I'm not easily influenced by the elements, right? Like I don't get seasonal depression which I think is just bullshit. I think that it's I don't think it's depression. I think that yeah you're you're less happy cuz you're out of the house less.

Or yeah, less and you you you know, it's raining and you're stuck in a fucking thing, right? So, oh I might have said that rain in countryside is nice but rain in the city is fucking horrible. Have I said that as a thought of the day? No. No, not really. No, well all right, let's jump in. They're fine. Basically I fucking have. What? Rain in the countryside is a very uplifting thing, right? It's where it I get immense happiness when it's raining and I'm in a field or I'm in a in a cottage in the countryside and I'm viewing rain hit leaves, grass, right?

And you you could be somewhere under a you know, in a bus stop or something and you can hear the rain slapping against natural things and you're like this is what you have evolved hearing and liking and it feels in my opinion glorious. Right? There's no part of me that doesn't like it except if you are camping and you're not in the tent and you've got no spare clothes and you're soaking, then I will admit that that is fucking shit. Yeah, I guess. But does it Does it have anything to do with driving?

So, versus I'm in my car and I'm driving through London and it's a shithole, there's miserable cunts outside, they all look deranged and depressed and depressed is like deformed, okay? Um and That's exactly London. Right? And it's raining. There's mutants everywhere. Yeah, right? >> deranged to deformed. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, right? And mutants, right? So >> people Oh, less horrifying. Yeah, okay. And I'm like Oh, shit. This is not uplifting.

This is slightly like Do you know what I mean? Like like oh, fuck. >> Is that not just a case of the countryside is nicer, period? In any weather. This just sounds very simple. Yeah. Right? >> Even a sunny day in London is is London is a pretty ugly city. Yeah, but the sun does like I'm so so upbeat right now. Like generally in my life, I feel quite amazing and I'm aware that I say this every week and I am, but also I went for a walk yesterday and I was like, "Do you know what? It's all right. This is all right. Yeah, it's not that bad." So walking through I saw some tits. I was like, "Shit, it's that time of year again. This is great." I saw some grass.

I was like, "Oh, shit. This is also good." And it was sunny. And I was like, "Maybe Tina's right. Maybe sun is better than than than autumn and winter cuz cuz I really enjoy winter. I Yeah. Basically what I'm saying is I enjoy everything but when it rains in the city and I'm driving through London it's a shithole and I'm like, "Yeah, now I understand." Also Also, the big difference is London gets gray and then it gets grayer. Countryside gets a different color, nicer different, right?

London >> But But to be fair, when when it's sunny, I think London is really beautiful. In the center. Uh where you live, yes. Not in Seven Sisters, mate. No, yeah. Where where you live is actually really pretty when it's You're basically in the countryside now. That's like a really beautiful place year round. He's right. Yeah, it's true. It's beautiful anyway. But Um still For example, when we go to Sphere uh I I really that is a shithole. >> Good. Good. And when it's raining, it's the absolute shithole with all the mutants and everything. But then when it's lively, there's a lot of eat mutants and and you know, all the It's very lively and even if it's the a shithole it feels less Would you say that it's a sign of a of a beautiful city that it's actually better or or as good when it's raining? I would argue that Tokyo is almost better when it's raining. It's at least incredibly

um pretty and atmospheric and lovely. Makes sense. Not just because of any like desperate Blade Runner references. It's just a really nice cozy place. I I can I could I can't >> I think London London is really cool when it rains if you are a a depressed detective um and that you're about to retire or something. And then you get shot obviously and die Yeah, when it's dark and raining, yeah. I don't believe that narrative that if you had one day to retire, you would go into an active battle like battle. You wouldn't. You'd be like Oh, fuck. I just I just broke my leg. Or shoot yourself in the fucking foot. No, cuz you don't know you're going to die.

You wouldn't Yeah, you don't want to do that. But there is is a hot woman that comes into your office and says, "You need to help me." And it's like >> I might help. I don't think I'm going to get any less perverted as I get older. Like I kind of assumed um Less perverted. I don't think anyone thought that. Oh. Well, I I should have. I thought that by like 40 50 60 I might be less like ah fucking fuck that, right? Like but now I'm like Maybe Maybe my thoughts haven't changed. Women are still beautiful depend irrelevant on the age.

What? I think you get more Well, maybe >> Also, you get creepier, right? So it's even That's true. Yeah, yeah. Okay, that's the issues cuz I've I've I'm I'm I'm waiting for this to actually end when I can smile and make jokes and people aren't like weirded out by it, right? But it's going to happen soon. That only happens if you if you look like a real grandpa, you know. Yeah, but I will. I will No, 10 years I reckon. When when this sags more and like this Yeah, but you can you can age like a like a creep or like a cool grandpa, you know. It's like >> yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get you. My dress sense is not very cool grandpa. Uh it's very trampy, actually.

Um You spend all day indoors. I think that's your you have a good excuse. I do like the indoors. But I went walking yesterday. So, um yes, that is thought of the day.

It's good. I [snorts] enjoyed that. You should strike it off your list now so you you'll remember. >> Of course, I actually upgraded my list to a real ordered list now. So when I push enter, it auto adds a number. Before I was doing it manually and having to update um Should we very quickly do Taskmaster? Yeah, fuck yeah. 5 minutes, mate. Hold on. Hold on. Shut the fucking map. >> Go now. Let's go on now. Um Get that fucking job done, mate. Taskmasters. Good. Now I know I've missed the Jingles. Yes, me too. >> [laughter] >> I dreamt about this moment.

Should we fitting of what we were talking today, should we do a base without a figure? Yes. Yeah, I'm well up for that. So, the the the briefing is doing a base base without a figure that it tells something. Obviously, it's If you put some sand in a in a plinth I don't want that. >> Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But uh tell something. You can add creatures if you want, like a little frog or a little Something evocative, something narrative but no miniature. So that's good. Yeah, it doesn't need to be tell the most amazing story ever. Just to be a moment in somewhere.

Nice. Yeah, and how long do we have to do this? A month, right? Well, 22 days. There's going to be overlap though, probably a month. The first Yeah, until the the first episode of May. Yeah. Okay, brilliant. And when they do this, the most important thing is to be bored, okay? I don't even got to try, man. >> [laughter] >> Um what are your thoughts on now? About? What base you're going to do? I have no idea. Good.

I also have no idea. So we are basically right now we're at the same level. But I I'm happy to because I the thing that with not having to put a figure in, you can just do whatever. Like >> Yeah, yeah. I just go to Epic Basing and if I find some Egyptian bits that I like, maybe I'll do an Egyptian base. If I like some I don't know. Some weird shit then I would do a weird shit. I don't I um I've always wanted to do a water base where and and I thought I thought this before everyone else did it but they obviously thought it as well. But I wanted to do my Falcon flying through the water. It's because of Star Wars, obviously. Um I think episode three or four, one of the X-Wing or something flies over the water. Yeah, that's in episode seven.

I I hate to tell you that is actually in The Force Awakens. They Okay, then in episode one. With the pod racer. Yeah. Well, the pod racer And it's not an X-Wing, obviously. No, but maybe they go in the water a little bit. They shut the fuck up. Yeah, there you go. I'm right. That wouldn't be that wouldn't be that difficult to do. You don't need to do a a translucent base. You could do like like Lucas with there's a product in Vallejo, the water effects, that you just literally sculpt water. So you can just sculpt the water doing like this.

That's too easy. Um I won't do it then. But but also also, like you're now saying, the stakes are absolutely zero. If you fuck that up completely, then you will know what the product works like. That's actually something Now you mentioned it, it's something that I thought about as well. This would be a good opportunity to try some products out and see actually do something that I have no experience with because Oh yeah, shit. We never got sent any free samples for basing from anyone, did we? No. They must not have had our address. This is very strange. I don't know why I don't know what they're waiting for exactly.

>> really enjoying the brushes, by the way, from Monument. Um I do I am liking those. You want to enjoy some more, maybe? 1:52 2:59. Ma- Martin, we're thinking of releasing our own brushes, all right? I got to go. Okay. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. Um yeah. Okay. Cool. All right. >> Peace. Um >> [snorts] >> Ah, fucking hell. Makes us all stiff. Uh >> [laughter] >> There you go.

We are we're back. Well, fuck Bo, off isn't it? We're not doing his uh >> [laughter] >> Poor guy. >> [gasps] >> We can we can Wait another week. We can Yeah, okay. We can that couple of questions. We can go through a couple of his questions. You want to do thought of the day? Is that what you want to do? Yeah, oh yeah, I've got to go as well. So hold on. How do I I'm not sharing my screen. I can jump I know I am sharing cuz I'm filming there. I'll have to pause. Oh GD special. Extra special. Right, so number one through eight.

Seven. This is a good one. You're going to like this boys. Are there any gay fish? Yes. All fish are gay. Well, the reason why I laughed and enjoyed this question in my own brain cuz I I I didn't think of this for you guys. I just thought I wonder how gay fish manifest because mammals procreate with penetration.

Right? And so do fuck people who have eggs. >> [laughter] >> Um People who have eggs. People who have eggs and mammals. Yes. >> Fish don't actually have intercourse. They do have eggs though. Yeah, they just spunk over the eggs. Yeah, right? I think So you can't they're not I feel like they're asexual. I feel like I've heard somewhere that dolphins are gay. That some dolphins will prefer same sex. >> And beavers and a lots of almost all animals I think all animals have gays. 10% of them are gay something. It's exactly same as humans, right? Same as left-handed.

Which also just makes it hilarious that A some religions hate gay people and some people think that you're not born with it. So just just to it doesn't make sense, right? It does not make sense. Um So but then that's why I laughed. First of all I just laughed at the idea of there being a gay fish. And then I got into like would you have a mincy fish? You can't be a mincy fish cuz you're underwater. You're Do you know what I mean? And then I thought about it more logically and I was like uh you would never have a gay fish cuz I don't think they have sexuality.

They procreate but they're not Do you know what I mean? You know you don't have a sexual preference. You're not having sex. You're just squirting your jizz on a fucking egg. >> is is probably unfortunately true. Mhm. Yeah. That sucks. It is actually a deeper question than it seems. I mean as I say I just said it and I cracked up cuz I thought of this gay fish. Yeah, I don't I don't think they can exist because they don't have um they don't have sex. But then again what is Well, you'd argue that being gay isn't a sexual attraction exclusively, right?

You you are in love with another man. Mhm. And okay, yes you want to fuck his brains out but you can love them without the sex thing. It's like Arno saying it's more of a philosophical question with like it just the relationship aspect of fish as well like do they are they drawn to anything Maybe. I mean they're not hanging out. But they forget. Fishes dumb cunts. I personally think you should eat fish. I had this conversation with my wife, right? She's a vegetarian. Used to [snorts] be vegan. And ever since I heard the song by Nirvana fish don't have feelings so it's okay to eat fish. I haven't fact checked that.

I don't know. But I do think it's weird that you're allowed to hook a fucking fish in the mouth and a hook there and you can just pop it out and throw them back in and then they're they're fine. But that's been there's been there's been They must have feelings. Impossible. Yes and and there's been research into that because we can obviously actually double check with those fish that have been dragged out of the Arno wants tension now by the way. That's what that means. This is Arno reacting to me. He's like what? So they've been after people have fished the fish out of the fishing place and then they've pulled the hook out of there. And he's gone There someone else I guess a marine biologist will have picked that fish up and and done a a survey. They're like how did that feel? And they found out that they are super stressed. Except for one fish who's like I fucking love it.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah, that little On a scale from one to 10 how did it and it was yeah and you're like well that's surprising. Like who would have thought >> thing in the world. Yeah. Yeah, is that is pretty pretty obvious. Yes, they hate that. And and they did And I guess they measure things like stress from their heart and their The fact that they're dead on the floor going Yeah, exactly. They're like you were dead for 30 seconds and then someone just threw you back to your home where you used to be. How did you feel about that? >> Don't forget they can't breathe. Yeah, exactly. Slowly suffocating for someone else's sport. The only thing I would say though on that subject is if you're a vegetarian you can be annoyed by the this statement but if you're a meat eater you can't really have any empathy cuz we eat meat. The I think there's a big um distract not distinction between you go to a restaurant and you eat a cow. You don't think it's a cow. You're just eating a burger and it's going in

you and it feels great. Whereas [snorts] if you were the bloke going out and killing cows I wonder how many people would eat meat. Um No for sure but that's that's it's a reality that we we just we are we do have empathy but we don't feel it when we don't see it. Yeah. That's that's the reality of it and we know it. >> And a lot of people would that that graph is like the less you see that what you're eating is an animal the easier it is to eat. So like chicken fingers very far from an animal. Mhm. But like meat that has bones in it or like an entire chicken slightly more like an animal. I don't know. Some children might be put off from eating that. You know what I mean? Well I mean chickens are cunts so it's easier to eat them.

Chickens are cunts. >> Well that's stupid. So this also cunts. We've established this. This was the point I was going to make but I went down another road just now. But the level of intelligence directly correlates to how much I enjoy things dying. So like >> [laughter] >> you kill a chicken he's not he the chicken is not having an existential crisis when he's about to die. He has a knee-jerk reaction that is the desire to live. So it wants to live so it can procreate. That's just an animal basic instinct I think.

Um whereas an animal like um a horse maybe or a dolphin or a whale an elephant these larger thought a crow possibly that they have intelligence, right? So there's some form of self there and that's when I I really disagree with killing stuff. Um but I have no problem whatsoever with killing a chicken and that's where my my fish eating comes in. I don't think that fish is I think he has a reaction and he's stressed but that's only cuz he wants to survive. He's not thinking oh fuck I've got three fish children here and I am fucked if I don't they they really depend on me for my fish food.

Um They're just swimming around being cunts doing what fish do, you know? He eats a bit of a scallop and he's like that was nice. I'll go and have a Like do you know what I mean? They're not even sleeping really. Don't they sleep with half their brain on cuz they can't stop swimming they'll die. Yeah, I don't know the biology. I don't think fish No they don't like that. No, they don't sleep. They sleep in the Some fishes do sleep in the in the floor on the same floor. They go and hide in like kelp forests and under the I'm pretty sure they I'm not sure if it's Water needs to pass through their gills for them to extract oxygen. So you're saying they just hold their breath?

No, but the water moves. Oh you reckon? Do you stay perfectly still and breathe? I mean you Yeah, no but this is doing my moving for me. Yeah, but the gills work similarly, don't they? They Don't think so. No, but the water just passes through. Not in a pond it don't, mate. In a pond maybe not. In a big lake you won't have much like okay a big enough lake but like um I don't think some of our six listeners are marine biologists. If you want to chime in here. Often I think this I've I've got something to talk about like I've got an element with my sinuses and chin and I was really hoping that we had a doctor that I could talk to you about it and then he would go fuck me that guy is about to die and then he could It's really too bad that they don't have doctors in London where you are.

Right, for example. I I actually have I had three surgeries on my sinuses. But I Right, so So yesterday, right? I've got this thing with my chin and the my jaw, [snorts] right? When I open it this this side opens more than this side. This one almost dislocates. No, no. Ouch. And and anyway, so I had I was yesterday I was just spending some It's weird to wear these big headphones but I was spending some time on it and I was like let me massage I massaged it and then all of a sudden snot dripped trickled down my the back of my throat, right?

Cuz I I I This is pointless if there's not a doctor listening. I don't really need to tell you this. Pretty sure. Pretty sure. Like I don't like I don't I don't know about everyone else. It's pretty pointless. So Yeah, but I don't give a shit about them. We've established that. If there's a doctor listening let me know in the comments and then next week I will tell you about my sinus jaw issue. Mhm. Okay? Cool. It was a pretty long thought of the day though. Like one of the longest we've done. Which was just about a gay fish.

Let me Google if there's a Let me like what does a gay >> the day it took an day to think? That's good. Yeah, the only if you search gay fish you just get Kanye West then. >> [laughter] >> I guess it's something that I don't often broach. Oh, interestingly, that is my album of the week, Kanye West new album. He is a He is a rapper from the United States. And uh As I said, I don't listen to lyrics, but the the production is very good. I'm enjoying it thoroughly. Good.

So, our patron's going well? Should do something. There's loads of stuff on our Patreon. Yeah, we We will do something. We promise. Don't believe it. Unsubscribe you two guys. And then resubscribe when we actually pull our

fingers out of our own ass. We are the worst. If you're interested in fingers and asses, go to onlyfans.com/minimadders. I mean, we could have some content for them, like rubbing boxes on themselves. Anyway, see [snorts] you later. Cheers, boys. Yes. Cheers. Bye. Adios.