#F*ckSmoothness Was Right All Along

>> I think we'll get better at it. >> I think we should more of the Do you remember when I did that thing when we were like >> we just do a sound by where one of us goes I'm never buying this thing again? >> Yeah. But we don't say what it is. Yeah. >> Never mind what it is. Like we just do that and then like come to Patreon for all the juicy secrets >> cuz we now have >> and I was like oh my god that's the best advice I've ever been given. Dot dot dot. And then we just fade to black. >> And then with a logo of Patreon. >> Yeah. >> And probably like the amount of money it is.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And like come to Patreon, we will get naked. >> Uh it's the blur of of Only Fans and Patreon is is becoming stronger >> as the days go on. Well, welcome

everybody. That is of course the intro to the episode 13 of season 4, the best podcast probably in the world. And if I dare say better than get good. So it's it's interesting that >> even is that I mean people don't >> I actually wouldn't know because if it if I did I would it would be better. I wouldn't it doesn't it doesn't hold up cuz obvious fuck it. Um we are the three amigos from all from oh two of us are from England one is from Sweden. Um Arnau and I went to Warhammer World on the weekend. Right. Mine. And you may or may not have known this.

>> I I saw something. I guess I No, I knew that Arn Now was there cuz he posted a thing about the >> the little face >> about the little stuff. Yeah. And it made me angry and jealous and uh resentful. >> That's actually what he was when he posted that. He specifically said, "I fucking hope mine sees this. That little slimy little weasel cunt." I was like, "Wow, Arnell, that's a lot. That is a lot." and he goes, "This little motherfucker thinks he can come to Warhammer." And then he posted the picture. Um, and then he also drew Git Good's logo on the floor and then pissed on it.

>> Did he? >> It's a really He bring one of those big graph markers and he drew the gigg logo and then pissed on it. >> Gang wars. >> I'll be honest, I'm bored of not having um any kind of >> like spiciness. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? We've we're back to our old days. Like we've we've done the bullshit now of Golden Demon and and whatever that thing was we did before Golden Demon. And um coincidentally, not not to derail the intro, but I was reading on I'm quite big on Reddit now, okay? I'm like the top 1% poster in competitive 40k, which is hilarious cuz I know nothing about competitive 40k, can I just say?

But anyway, you don't know. Not not enough to be the top 1% poster. >> Well, I mean, you have the most important and amazing map in TTS in the whole history of humankind. >> Well, I mean, I I didn't want to say it, but uh yeah, it is. >> But you wanted someone to say it. >> It is that Well, it's so good. Have you heard of this thing called Art of War? >> Art of War. >> It's a book, I think, from China or something years ago. It's not >> Yes. >> Su's Art of War. Yeah. Yeah, which I've never read, but um there's um there's a YouTube channel which does competitive like um training and shit like that.

Anyway, they they stole my map and just put their logo on it. So that's how good the map is. >> Oh wow. >> Yeah, pretty good, eh? >> Damn. >> Um what was the point? Oh >> yeah, imagine for for code that I already took from someone else. Admittedly, I changed it a bit, but yeah. Um, so anyway, they were saying going on from the Golden Demon, although I do want to kind of leave a Golden Demon in the dust cuz it's beneath me. But, um, all of them, all the entries are the same. Basically, the point they're making that it's becoming boring and vanilla. Um, >> but this was on Reddit.

>> On Reddit? Have you heard it? >> All right. I've heard of it. Yeah, I know people who enjoy chat groups end up on Reddit. Yeah, I don't think the community is that nice in all honesty, but um >> someone So you you found a post that someone was saying that the GD entries are all the same. >> Well, it was trending, but yeah. Um >> Oh, yeah. >> And I dare say I agree and it makes me sad >> because if you go back far enough 8 years stuff was I don't know. Did you have more artistic freedom? I don't really understand um if it's true, but I feel like it's true. But I also feel like maybe when you get to a higher level, it has to be the same because there's less room to be uh what's that word?

Expressive. >> Expressive, explorative, innovative. I maybe I think it's just uh the people think that uh that there are more constraints than there are. >> What do you think? >> Well, it's funny. It's funny that you bring this up because this was actually um discussed yesterday in the GitG good channel as well. Well, can I just I'll pause you there. We spoke about it first cuz we are better than them. Remember? So, we we've not been influenced just a king doesn't listen to his porns. Do you know what I mean? And that's who we are really.

Um, and I actually I actually think it's a very interesting topic because there is um there is it's it's like very complicated. >> We don't have a meat of the day today. >> We don't have a meat of it. >> Well, we don't officially have a meat of it. >> Well, we do have this is this is news and it's a it's an interesting philosophical segment in the in the news, right? >> Yeah. It's the more interesting thing that happened in the painting oil in five weeks. No, because all that >> Exactly. We're just We're bringing We're staying on top with the latest and greatest.

Should I quickly tell the listeners what we're going to do or should we just fucking blow with the row and go with >> Oh, you want to do your um what's it called? Table of contents far away. >> It is actually. Yes. Curriculum vie. Um >> we went to Warhammer World, crashed our car. I mean, someone crashed into our car. >> Um, I say ours. >> Did they? >> Yeah. Cost a lot of money >> and the guy ran. >> What car was it? Was it a rental? >> No. No. >> Yeah. A rental. >> It was a rental. Well, yours was a rental. >> Literally, why would I need a rental? I don't I I don't need a rental.

>> But because you don't have a car. >> I do have a car. I have the car that got crashed into it. We've driven in that car loads of times. Unless it's a joke. I guess it's a joke. Um, so yes, we were in GBK. We we'd finished Warheim and we were dropping off Albert >> Moretti brought him along instead of me. That makes sense. >> No, no, he couldn't come. Um, but we went to his gaff after to get a burger and then we came out GBK and there were police everywhere and we were like, "Oh, what's this?" I was thinking they found my illegal stash of Warhammer >> um in the boot of the car. Anyway, >> fucking huge smash in the car. smashed into the car in front of my car, a BMW, twatted his car, and then it turned out that four people ran out, a 10-year-old kid, and one woman and two adults, and they ran away. And then the the the police lady was like, "Ah, this is fucking ridiculous. This is the third one today. Fucking hell." She was proper cocknney. Um and and then she said that normally they run away when they're

drunk or something in it. And I was like, "Really?" She's like, "Yeah, they've got insurance and that, but like they just don't want to get fucking caught." And I was like, "Wow, you're a really nice officer." And then we just hugged and that was it. >> I'm imagining a a half troll, half goblin officer. >> Yeah, she's she's more man than woman at this point, but she's, you know, she's lovely. So, yeah, Martin, it was it was completely wrecked. Um, and it's going to put my car out of action for a while.

I had to drive it to the to the garage, leave it there. >> So, I had to drive to Dantingham and and Jamie was all the time complaining like a little >> That's true. >> You're going too fast. Um, go slowly. Doesn't do that. >> No, but that's the good >> is now a good driver. Is >> Annoyingly, he is. Yeah, I was surprised actually. I I'll be honest. I had him down. >> Don't surprise me in the slightest. I can only imagine her now being an exemplary. No, I had him as a bit of a like um a meek bitch driver. Do you know what I mean? Like like he's doing 30 and a 60 and then he'll go, "Oh, no. The the floor. I don't want the rules." Something like that.

>> No. Like like many things in life are now Arnau is is a subtle >> uh >> expert. Yeah. >> Yes. Exactly. He he doesn't he's not a braggadocious good driver. He just knows his shit. He's a master of his vehicle. I don't want to say I'm like the guy who knows about driving, right? Because I'm not. I fucking know. >> Well, I've seen you I've seen you navigate a a big car through some weird weirdly >> uncomfortable situations. >> I very much enjoy I'm I have to say, Golden E, I am looking forward to getting that um truck again. Um I did I did spend a lot of time who Anyway, look, it's not important.

>> Yeah, >> but I do spend time still intro. Welcome to We're only 10 minutes in. It's okay. Got another 1 hour 50 to fill. Um, so fuck me in the beast. Um, a lot of people are like mints around when they drive. Like did he beat me or is this the Arnell doesn't do that? Arnell does he is articulate when he drives. >> Um, he doesn't like speeding. He doesn't like going through red lights. Sometimes it goes around the wrong way in the car park just to annoy you. So >> it was not the wrong way though.

>> It was >> It was the perfect way. >> Went the long way. So um yeah, if anybody wants to know now is probably going to do lessons as well as painting lessons. >> Sure. Yeah. >> Job. >> Yeah. Well, it's only for painters. >> So it's a double it's a double you double up, right? It's called Arnell's Driving and Painting School. And people are like, "How do those things mix?" And the logo is a car that's a brush. >> That's how I train actually, painting while driving. So that's why I I got so efficient because I I can only paint on the red lights.

>> Yeah, >> that makes sense. >> Yeah, it's hard when it dries out. >> That does make sense. >> Yeah. Insane cues on the motorway.

>> It is good to be back. >> What did you What did you guys do in Nottingham? And >> how did it was it How was it terrible and lonely? >> Um Well, you weren't there for one mine. Yeah. >> So, I mean, >> we didn't go to a murder hotel, which is nice. >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Did you stay in a in a better one? >> We stayed in a fantastic over the weekend, obviously. And um >> and it was it was beautiful, I dare say. Like world like the world is beautiful. >> Did you go to Warm World to play Warhammer?

>> No, we are past that now, Martin. That we are It's >> Yeah, I thought I thought that was not it. It was a slightly rhetorical question, but I feel like sometimes people go there and they have like a point, like a destination to >> aside from just going to the museum. You've been there 100,000 times, >> I think. And we will go more because we don't make it out of that first room. So, um, basically it was an interesting trip because normally, um, I'm kind of fired up before a little bit like, yeah, I'm into painting and all this kind of shit, right? Whereas before I felt I had nothing. I'm so >> I'm balls deep. Excuse the pun in um in the map building. Okay.

>> And Ara was like, "Do you want to like is it even?" And I was like, "No, not really." And I was like, "Are you?" And he was like, "Yeah, I am actually." And I was like, "All right." It's like it's like having a child to see if it reignites the relationship, you know? >> But yeah. >> Yeah. Well, so >> it always does. That's the cool thing. It always works kind of thing. >> Well, we um I was Hold on. Hold on. Fucking I don't know who it was who complained, but some little shite complained on the um what's that thing called?

>> Reddit. >> Uh Discord. >> YouTube. Ah, Discord. >> And um they they did complain about this. Hold on. Just wait. Oh, you guys won't be able to see anyway. Oh, fuck. Okay. There's always someone complaining, >> right? Wait, wait for it. Do you Yeah, there you go. Ah, fuck the font. Your names were wrong. Some dickhead was saying Jamie's production shit. Like, fair enough. It is shit cuz Anyway, so my mo It's not that my mojo had gone. I mean, we had I've had I'll be honest, it was amazing. Mine. Okay, I'm I'm I'm back into painting. I haven't painted. I haven't picked up the brush, but I'm up here is where the battle is. It's not over there. Do you know what I mean?

>> The last time before this time you went to warmer world, you had an epiphany about painting. >> That's amazing. >> You went through warmer world, you came in one side, you came out the other, you were completely naked, covered in gold paint, >> and your entire perspective was like different. This is the way you told me. You came out into the shop at Worm World and you were like, I am a golden god. I'm gonna paint 10 times better and more than I've ever done my life. How was this in relation to that? Did you feel And yeah, >> it was not the same though because the the this I think this epiphany in particular was not about Warhammer wall >> was it was like Chinese and friendship and you know and then because the the um art appreciation you already came with it, right?

>> Yeah, it's painful actually. and and now we need a a reason to put that into into work. >> That's true. That is true. Um so we've still got obviously Bose Questions, um Golden Demon being the same, uh Faction Feud, and Thought of the Day. Um and then quickly to go back. So yes, I a part of me realized I'm not painting for anybody but Martin. Now, you might remember a few episodes ago that we said you shouldn't pay for anybody else but yourself.

>> But I realize that might be wrong, >> but it's not exactly that. Oh, sure. >> No, it's not. Go on, interject, Mr. Sir. >> No, no, no. You you you >> So, obviously, we we came up with the now world famous and probably Get Good will steal this idea cuz they steal fucking everything. Um, by the way, just for new listeners who might think I am sincere in my mugging off of Get Good, I don't know them. I've never met them. In fact, I don't even know what they look like. But what I do know is they love banter. They love it. And that the more aggressive the banter, the more they like it. And their Discord, >> as far as we know, that's true.

>> Yeah. And I've never issued an official. >> Every time you do banter, we should put a a sign banter. Caution banter. So just remember I'm English. Um right. So the the thing that they was be bored. Okay. Now >> Arnell said it's bullshit and it doesn't make sense. And I was like what the fuck are you talking about dude? It's it's it's the best catchphrase or thing I've ever come up with. Now we've come up with a slightly better way of saying it. But we will be sticking with bit bored.

Martin be bored. Pit bored. Good. Now I can't remember what it is now. Do you remember? >> See, and this is one of the reasons why I said that it was bullshit is because you don't even know what it means to have. I just just had to get it. So being bored >> and it's extremely forgettable. >> It's like it just it just doesn't make sense. Like >> so it used to be be bored and now it's what? >> No, no, no. It's going to stay be bored. So basically be bored is the concept of >> you want to like >> you want to you want to challenge yourself. You want to be Yes.

>> You wanna >> Tell me what it is. What the fuck was it? What was the point? >> Sounds like it's something you're striving for boredom. That's not the point. The point was to recognize when you're >> set yourself free is the point. Oh, now do you remember >> kind of not not fully. >> What was the B something? It was B. always a good inspirational speaker or not. >> It it was um it everything came from the from the showing off versus doing something that you want. >> Ah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

>> And you you said that you want you needed to erase all the noise of uh painting which is showing off doing um >> it's tech it's techniques. It's it's I'm like okay I want to learn Eminem today. I want to learn how to do volumes. I wanna Right. So, if you're bored, you don't have you don't have that thing. You're just you sit down and you're just going to paint what you know or or what you think you know. And by doing that, you're going to be bored because you've done that. Like, if you sit down, Martin, now and do a space marine in in heavy metal style, you've done that a billion times. There's no challenge there. So, you're bored.

Your brain is not engaged, right? Well, it's true and I can relate to it to that specific thing >> space marine. Yeah, it's oddly specific. So, so the concept is if you are putting yourself in that situation then naturally you will improve without going okay I want to learn this thing you will you're bored and you will naturally learn to push your boundaries and if you don't then quit painting because you got no place here. >> That's drastic. Yeah.

>> No, but just do like army paint or something. >> Move to China. >> Move to move to China seems like a good place right now. Move to Shanghai. Build your own house. Learn a lot there. >> Yeah. Do you uh what's that in China? No, there's no war in China just now. >> Okay. >> Uh did you do do you did you want to introduce something or now? Did you have a point to what Jimmy was just saying? >> It was also I told him about how when I uh went in my honeymoon in Bahamas, I was two weeks in the beach and I was very bored but at the same time I it was very motivating or inspiring the fact of being bored.

>> See, >> um because I was there was no noise. there was nothing to to do and everything I wanted was to to paint and and do something. So, it relates a little bit to it. I don't really know how. What was the what was this? It was be not impulsive. Be >> No, we we said uh aim to be bored or >> No, it was still two words, but the second word had changed. It wasn't It wasn't It was be or bucket. Who cares? Isn't it? Basically, the point is the point is if I just sat down and painted, let's say, okay, and I had no pre um conceived ideas of what I want to do or be or I'm I'm more likely to sit down and actually paint. And then by being bored of painting, I will naturally have to improve myself or change or do something. Whereas right now, I'm like, "Oh, fuck. I want to. Oh no, this is too hard. Oh no, I can't do that yet." So all this bullshit that I've got going

on, if I'm just be bored by sitting down and being bored, I will I will inherently do more. So I will get that on a t-shirt. One of the eight t-shirts that we promised to have make, but no one will do it for me. Um >> and then on the back, I'm not really sure what it means. >> Or just a confused face. >> Yeah. And um

>> it could be bored or not. I mean, >> just leave it open. >> Yeah. Or or don't. Yeah, that works. >> Yeah, exactly. >> 20 minutes we have done this intro. I dare say this is the best episode we have ever recorded. >> The longest intro for sure. >> It's an ongoing uh uh top 10 list. Uh >> so yeah, thanks mate. It's probably cuz we've only done 10 episodes. Um I suppose we did season 3, right? Some other news that I've been itching to talk about, but I've not been able to. I could save it for next episode.

>> Yeah, you're good. Of course. >> Good. Right. So, >> week away. >> Let us do Let us jump in to the episode, >> the Reddit post with the golden demon shape. >> That's That's the meat though, is it? >> Is it? Yeah, that could be a meat if you want. So yeah, kind of I guess. Well, let's fucking do it, right? Look. Hold on. Hold on. Do we have No. No. This is what you're going to get.

Oh, it doesn't work. Have I muted? What the fuck it? I tried to do a sound the jingle, but it didn't work. Hold on. Let me Let me Okay. Right. Fine. Well, the jingles don't work, so go fuck yourself. Um, Dr. Lovebrush. Now, this is a segment where the users of our Discord and probably patron cuz we're trying to make money. >> We don't care that much. Um, about the show. We don't care enough about the show to do it. Doc, people writing questions. Now, Bo B, positively not BO um, >> has been writing these questions and they genuinely are now 14 months old. I guess they're 6 months old. So if you ever have questions that you want um these two here artists to answer, then please join the Discord and let us know in Dr. Love Brush, we will be bringing it back. I haven't created the threads for it since literally 13 episodes and these are even older than that. Um but now that we're through here, we will have cleared the backlog. We're back to the old hating on get good and making

great content. So we are back and um these might be rehashes. Somebody else might have done them, but both thanks for your questions. We do care, just not enough to have done it earlier. >> Um, so what is your process before? Yep. >> Why don't we talk about the Reddit part? >> No, cuz that's the that's the meat of the day. >> Okay. And do we do it at the end? >> The meat of it. No, we'll just jingle it in. Like we'll just fucking do a couple of these. I don't want to get too bored cuz there's like a fucking lot of questions he asked to be honest.

>> Well, some of these questions have extremely quick answers and some of them deserve longer answers. And to be honest, I don't like to put a label on it now. >> Yeah. Yeah, I know. >> Except specifically when we do do meat of it at which point. >> Oh, yeah. We'll get back to our now's Reddit post and it will be the fair this episode. >> Oh, now if you wanted if you want us to do the the meat of it now. I'm out. I am genuinely happy to jump in. >> I don't care. I just thought that you were talking about it and then you jumped. >> Yeah. See, the only the only issue is that we've postponed answering both questions for 6 months.

>> We should do a couple. >> He deserves it. >> Yeah. I mean, we should we must >> Should we just not Should we just find a reason not to do it? Like like maybe the recording breaks or something going to be like, "Well, sorry, Bo." I mean, he surely he's left by now. Like, he's long gone. He's deep in the Get good camp. >> I mean, he and rightly so. They actually do listen and and do professional content. I heard they do interviews. >> Who knows what they do. I've I have no idea. >> That's That's why I love them cuz they are just stand >> I'm pretty sure it's a cult. I'm pretty sure they're doing something criminal.

>> The fact that the fact that you know they've got a Discord with members on it, but the Discord's private alarm bells ring ding ding ding ding. It's It's Yeah, I don't want to say um but I think it is probably that. >> Yeah. >> What you guys I I deliberately paused it while I said the word so the viewers won't know that I said necroilia. So I think that's quite clever. Um right. So what is your process before you put paint on a model? Now >> this is a fucking huge question.

>> Yes. That's what I'm saying. Like this deserves the process before we put paint on a miniature. I think >> this is a this this we've done this and I think it's it's okay if we do it again. >> Yeah. But let's try to keep it like slightly concise. I think we all three of us would have slightly different answers, but it there's a little bit of like a copout answer to to what you do before you put paint on the brush. If I'm doing like commission work or box art for uh let's say games workshop box arts every metal stuff or whatever then the prep work will be done either by me or someone else for like the range and shit. So it's much less about like looking at the was that >> someone else would prep your models at GD.

>> No, no, it's prep work as in Oh, I guess research. >> The question the question isn't prep work like like prep work. It's uh what's your process before you paint? light direction, color choices, etc. So, he's not talking about gap filling. He's talking about color ideas. I mean, all that stuff will be kind of worked out through like lore and what range it is and whatever. >> I feel like the specifically with with like light direction, color choices, I think are now answer will be more interesting. >> Color choices for me will be usually like um what's the main color of the miniature and what's going to work with that. What did you want to say, Jamie?

So, I think what we'll do is we'll give quick answers to all of these, like a minute or two. Um, then we'll do our meat of it because that might take up the rest of the show. And then what we'll do is the listeners, so all six, I guess, probably less now cuz we've not produced any decent content. >> Three or four obviously. Yeah. >> Um, they can say what they find interesting and then we will literally do meat of it because we are we are struggling for content. We are fucking We are like in the trenches right now. So that's why we're bringing out this shit. Nerf heads bow. They're good questions, mate. But so >> good questions.

>> What do you guys think of that? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, that's cool. >> Would you answer that question? >> Yeah, of course. All >> right. Well, I just it's not it's not in it's not it's not helpful. Um how do I what's the process before I paint a model? Better done. >> Yeah. >> Spray it black. I sit down. I go, "Yeah, fuck." I mean, it's Is it red or black? >> Okay, cool. Let me look at this magazine. I'm trying to get there. I know. I know. Um I know the answers to this by the way. What are now will say what what less so actually. Well, I suppose as you say, the prep, but let's pretend you are doing the prep, >> right? Not that somebody else has done it like >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, sure.

>> Um, if I Arnell is going to basically say he tries to imagine a scene. He likes to put himself there. Thinks of like what could look interesting with this model, how it's maybe not how it's feeling, but what he's trying to portray like light sources and, you know, if it's in a battlefield, it will have this. If it's in a in a dungeon, it will have different lights, it will blah blah blah, right? So, it's just mimi pimby bullshit. And then >> Martin, I guess you'll go like, "Fuck, I've got to keep it how they want it, and I need to come up with a decent color scheme that sells the model well, and I need to do some mock-ups on Photoshop, and then we can discuss in a meeting." >> Pretty much. I think light when it comes to like heavy metal painting is much less of a of an issue or a thought.

There's obviously light, otherwise they would just be black, but there's much less of a discussion of where the light source is and what the light source is. It's always going to be the same kind of light source. It'll never be like this particular guy's in a dungeon or in the middle of the night or lit by a candle or something. But then, so then all the questions really relate to like the background, the IP, and the lore. And then color theory, color schemes, what works together and what doesn't. And yeah, Photoshop sketches are really good for that. Um, some questions will be answered pretty quickly. If there's like if it's a space main chapter, they'll probably already have loads of colors established from previous iterations.

And if it's like a brand new AOS army, >> they'll one thing I've I've thought about a lot with um >> every any army really is like >> before they used to before they did the colored backgrounds that they do now for the boxes where like all the New York stuff has a green background and all the Black Templars have purple background and whatever else. Before that it was really just like uh uh the same color background for the boxes and then the army would have like their own color. And I I always used to think how important that one color was to really essentially give every army like a very clear visual cue.

>> And whenever we did something new, then there there needs to be something new. Like for a while there there were, you know, Chaos Space Marines and Stitches of Battle that were like exactly the same colors. And for someone who's brand new to the hobby, that might not be instantly recognizable as two different things where like the tow army was white and it's the only army that's very clearly all white. So you could like identify that. >> Um anyway, that's I I I always interesting starting point. >> Sorry.

>> Basically, it's like marketing at that point almost. >> Yeah, exactly. You're thinking about it from like what it looks like in the store as well. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. And how easy is to paint and how shit tower are and stuff like that. >> Definitely. >> My my my answer will be mostly exactly what you said. >> Um in in that I I also put the references because you may think about Yeah. You left an integral part. >> That's such a big Yeah. Go on. Do it do it from the top so people believe. So when you when you want to paint something, you want to paint you you should want to paint it for a reason because you want to create something and this something can be more complex or less complex. If you want to make it more complex, you need to answer all these questions about what type of light, what type of ambient, what type of mood, what's the character, what's what's do what's it doing? you know because at the end of the day you you

are trying to paint a picture even if it's a 3D picture you are trying to paint a scene and I always think about this as giving it a reason to why should I paint just a character that's posing like I'm I'm like he hired me to paint him in in the sense you know like uh >> general of an army me that's too proud. Um, and then when looking at references, something that happens is that you find things that you haven't thought and then it's like, oh, I like this a lot. Then I I will add it to my idea or then, oh, this is much better than my own idea.

and then I change it or so doing research of things it helps you um evolve your idea and make more more more more stuff or complex stuff. But yeah, for me the before is a lot a lot more important than the than the during painting. It it's what sets up the whole like it's what sets up the success of the piece.

>> What it's fucking meat of it. I need to avoid the questions. It's like fast as a race car semi. >> I mean it's not but >> it's only more like at what point were you doing that though? Because it's only >> like at what point were you were you thinking that philosophy? Cuz for me, painting at the moment is more important than the feeling. Now, I'm going to argue I'm playing devil's advocate cuz I kind of disagree. But like, you could only say that when you're good and if you get good, it's really easy to do. But if you're shit, okay, and you can't even really paint, I'm not talking like splotches of bullshit. I'm talking like starting out maybe, but decent level. um you're not going to be able to fulfill your dreams and your thought processes because you're not good enough to put those on uh a model, right?

>> Um I understand, but I think this is actually a massive deal. Why um how are you going to learn to do it if you don't do it? So, exactly. If if you if you don't do it, you will never because then you are you are getting caught in that loop of not doing it and then you get good on the on the branch that is not doing it. >> So I I actually think that it's very very bad for you to not do it.

>> Yeah. Um because all these questions that you are trying to ask and answer before doing they are just you are just trying to solve problems beforehand. It doesn't need to be extremely complex. You can still do it easy, but if you solve your questions, you will have no no dilemas or you will have a more specific idea or thinking, you know, um I want to do this character because I don't know it's a battle scene or is is he just posing? Did he >> Well, I've got um >> good thing to add to it. Yes. is first of all be bored and second of all um it's so much easier in my mind to um have an idea about let's say a single figure in a battle or or in a pub with some lights and a and a campfire and you're worried about the scene more than you're worried about how perfect it looks like it's a million times easier

to paint something with that in mind than it is to paint something oh I want it to be fucking perfect I want it to have this L&M um And that's just been unlocked in my brain because if you're bored, I probably copyright that or something. But if you're worried about the scene and just roughly it looking better, you're not bogged down by all the bullshit that you've created in your own head beforehand. I can't do this because of that and I I won't I won't try that because of this. Um and and those shackles of perfection actually sh uh um change your your outcome completely. It makes you go in a safer route.

>> Which might lead to our meat of it golden all looking the same. >> Oh that's actually very true. Yeah. Good thing. Yeah. >> I am a professional talk show host for a reason boys. Arnell, I'm I'm wondering when you uh let's say you're painting um a bust, like never mind what it is, and there's no you have zero colors set from any there's no artwork reference. Um there's no request from any client or anything like that. What what would be the very first question to answer in terms of color?

What would be your first in not just like something vague like where are they but where what would you want to set first? >> I mean I understand your question but this question comes after the character. So first of all should should be who who is the character? What is the character? >> Yeah >> when you know what is the character then you know more or less other other you know other questions come after that. So, for example, with a with a blue lady I painted not long ago, um before knowing that she was blue, um she was just a a girl with a mohawk, right?

>> Yeah. >> But then it's who is she? She's scatty. Then you look for the character. the character is blue or pale or you know and then you know that she's uh um ambient in cold then you know that the colors will be called then this leads to that. If if it's another character that has no uh reference anywhere and you just have to decide or create then you have families of colors that you can use or or um but it it also depends do I want it to make it moody so darker? Do I want it to make it more saturated? So I want to play with more vibrant colors. So, all these answers come after the what what character do I want to portray?

>> But, and it's it sounds more like it there's never one specific color choice, but all of the color choices together. Is that what you're saying? That most of that stuff will kind of come as a package. >> So, with your with the blue lady, all of those kind of >> color choices and uh mood and atmosphere and temperature and all those things, that was all >> one decision. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But interestingly, H >> I think that's probably the biggest breakthrough we've ever had in the show.

>> Oh, is it? >> I think so. Maybe. >> Why? >> Don't paint what you think you need to paint. Paint what you feel you need to paint. Develop that, please. I think I need to learn NMM. I think I need to learn volumes. I think I need to learn how to paint white elf skin. >> Mhm. >> But I feel like I want to paint an elder running through a battle scene with some explosions.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> That's it. >> It's it's it's the scene. Fuck the all the other shit that So, if I'm bored, let's forget be bored. It doesn't work anymore. Um, >> I fucking said >> this is more this is more important I think. I'm >> It's more like fuck showing off like you know. >> Yeah, like just >> I think Yeah, I think Arnell's been touching on well we have a million times touched on this but it's just this idea of technical uh pedantry which is I think is great once you've got all the other stuff in place. It's almost like uh you can do you can get if you can get your idea across the way you're imagining it and the atmosphere and you can really get a good sense of atmosphere then you can spend ages like glazing and touching up and >> and finishing everything as good as you want. But that but if that's where you start is like making I think that's what

you're getting at Jamie is like if you start with I'm gonna make this axe into the best NMM I've ever done. >> Yeah. You've already way too small. >> I failed already. >> I think technique is a lie. >> I I honestly think like >> it does like it's the least important thing >> out of everything. >> This is very much the school of our now. So I I think I think our house is appreciating you're saying this but >> yeah but he's also like I told you yeah but you know it means six months but is this is this what Alfonso Gerala has always been is this what really fuck smoothness at the core of it was >> fuck I did an interview with him sit gone >> no no I mean fuck smoothness it's um it's it's exactly that it obviously needs a lot of nuance >> nuance and M >> but it's the the fact that if you concentrate in in in technique what you're doing is you're forgetting the the big the big picture and if you're forgetting the big picture then

you are just showing off and showing off little so the skill which is very important and it's in a in a sense is understandable because we all want to the first thing that we want is to be able to do things properly. So we pursue that technique. But then what happens is that we get stuck there and we forget that there is a whole world of artistry that get let's say it's blowing my mind. It's it's mind-blowing. So lots of things in my head right now.

I've liked artwork recently. There's a couple of artists that I love and I don't know their name and that's not important. They don't probably didn't want me to know their name. their art moved me. Okay. Um, and I look at a lot of it and it's a lot more loose than anything that we'll ever do in Golden Demon or or on some people on models, but generally, right, Golden Demon's not that important actually in that case. Um, and I've always wanted to recreate it. like we spoke about it people walking down a field and stuff but actually there's no reason I can't do that on a model except obviously the model is um a specific model is is is already written how you want it but if you create a scene with multi-kit parts you can do what you want basically and the feeling that you can portray is totally up to you it's almost like you are the god he said that before mine um now it hadn't clicked it definitely hadn't clicked I sat how to do those elder and I was so focused on where the volumes are and stuff. And don't get me

wrong, when you paint, you still need to make stuff work, otherwise it's going to look shit, right? But >> but the the it it will come by proxy. If I want a bloke sitting in front of a fire and and it to feel how I want it to feel, the fire needs to look relatively realistic, whereas the technique is not going to get me there. There is no technique on that, right? Uh, one of the things about focus smoothness as well is it tries to get closer to the actual painting to oil painting or you know >> um if you see people paint in a canvas you see how they don't go I mean mostly they don't go and just draw everything and then put uh a lot of effort in something and then put a lot of effort in something they choose those um blocks of of color, right? And then they keep refining these blocks of color and make them more precise.

So, it's the same that happens here. If you have a guy sitting in front of of a fire, are you going to start painting the foot how it should be? Then the calf, then everything. And you you are not going to do this. What you're going to do is you are going to put orange in the whole front of the guy because that's what will happen. And then um you are going to go from this from the um general to specific. Once you have the whole area of orange, you are going to be okay. Now that I have everything that's orange, I'm going to go smaller. And this way you you are doing the same process as an oil painting. just blocks of color. And it's actually so much quicker to paint like this. So much quicker.

>> Well, I'm excited to paint, which is a little bit worrying cuz I got to do this TTS map. But um it also I I just realized it sounds like the last 20 or 10 minutes, 15 minutes we've just been bashing like the opposite style um as if they're opposed, but they I guess they they are different in intrinsically what you're looking for. And I think my first 10 years of painting was to do Golden Demon. And I fucking loved it. I liked that a hundred times more than I'm liking >> I don't think you mean Golden Demon. Do you mean heavy metal or games workshop?

>> I was trying to win golden demons. So I was focusing on that which meant my my my natural style would be what I'd grown up with. So yeah, it'd be metal or golden demon or >> But you did actually mean golden demon. >> Yeah. Yeah. like um and I loved that more than I've ever loved the current thing that I'm trying to do. But I don't know if it if if following that led me down to where I'm at now, which is the the I need to get better at N&M or this blah blah blah, right? And like those things will come out naturally anyway. I think when you when you try and resolve a a feeling, you will need to practice, but it's less focus on, >> right? So, it comes by proxy, but it's not so much like, oh, fuck, I'm paralyzed by this thing. It's like, I'll paint and then I'll I'll get here and then I'll ask my friends for help or blah blah blah. Um, so I don't know if if that's why I got stuck and stopped painting. But, um, yeah, I think they're just, as we've said before, they're just two different things, aren't they? I'm only I'm only putting that in there that I'm not trying to shit on all the stuff that people are doing at Golden Demon.

>> No, no, of course not. I think it's also diff it's also important to I think acknowledge like what are now saying with or what we're saying with u like uh idea before technique or the the the ambience before the technique and all that stuff. It's it's before but it's not instead of I think practicing technique and refining technique is still worthwhile. It's still a good thing to do, but it shouldn't be >> like it's exactly what you were saying with painting that scene in someone in front of a fire. If you start by rendering the knee and then the face and then the sword and whatever else, like that's not going to be as efficient. And especially if you start um with maybe not a fully formed idea and you just kind of you're just painting something like in a vacuum and then you start to think about where to set that scene. Um cuz I think there's there's like good ideas, bad ideas, and then absence of an idea.

>> And that's kind of the thing that I'm mostly afraid of isn't having a bad idea, but just having none at all. >> And the stuff that I find least inspiring from like Golden Demon is where it's just like a thing that's just painted. >> And I and I honestly I include a lot of my own work there. I think the the thing I'm least happy with about like my Space Wall Squad is the atmosphere and the base and the setting, which I feel is kind of bland, like there's nothing really going on. So, I'm very happy with the work, but that's the one thing that I wish I could have delivered something more interesting is like the atmosphere.

It doesn't feel like they're really doing anything, >> which is also because it's a unit and it's not it's not it's not a diarama. So, that's that's fair. But, you know, that's that's kind of it's not it's a spectrum, I guess, is what I'm saying. It's not like I chose to go down a different route and that's and and therefore I'm exempt from having any atmosphere or any um >> do you not think that if you had put >> any kind of like like Tony's base, right? Tony is TK minis or something. Um >> you mean the Nurgle stuff? like he prayed this amazing base and it was fucking was trees and it was a unit but he didn't get dick right obviously you won you did win that year actually I think or maybe the year before but in the same event >> I didn't win the year he did his nogo guys I didn't win anything >> yeah it's the year before fine but so so had you made that space wolfie >> and slightly more narrative driven you might not have won right so it's like >> maybe but it depends on what you mean by like space wolfy I don't think that they're always I I get what you're But I think like an ambitious base.

>> Yeah, something like that might have been more interesting. I think it's more about the impact with units than the narrative setting or anything like that. >> I think you can you can create something that's more interesting and present the unit more interestingly, but it doesn't have to be more of like a scene. I was actually thinking of loads of ways I could introduce more narrative, but chose not to because I didn't want to turn it into a diorama. It's always tempting to add like dead guys and explosions and things. Not explosions, but you know, >> exactly the point the Reddit was making.

I think that >> we don't know obviously, but I think that you doing that unit and winning and the models are painted extremely well. >> So, it's like it deserved to win, but if you took those exact same models and changed it, might you have not won? We don't know. But the point is that's that was where you got to in your influence and you see more units either like well actually in fairness you see a lot of units just on on plints. >> Um so yours was already a departure from that right. I think you do see some units like yours but but generally there's a there's a >> there's definitely a formula and I do think that and and that's kind of like >> where this get um uh the Reddit post was going. Yeah. Like >> Yeah.

There is a formula for a reason, right? >> Exactly. There's a formula and and and I think more specifically, there's a precedent. People always look at what's been done before as a reference for what to do. >> And not to sound like some cool punk or anything, but I genuinely look at stuff that's been done before to know what's like what not to do almost. Again, not saying that I'm like I do the most original shit, but there's always going to be like um someone will have done something and maybe done it really well. That informs me like, okay, let's not do exactly that then.

>> And lots I don't want to do something that clearly reminds you of someone else's work. That seems like a terrible idea. Oh, it's just >> Yeah, that's boring. M >> either I'm I'm I'll I'll just look like I'm biting someone else's style or I'm just like I you know I'm afraid to to do something that's different or even um even if it's like more bland. I don't know. It's it's weird that it would that people would want to go down some some established safe route because well clearly that worked for this guy and he got gold. It's like that's not a good reason to do it again. M I don't know if you if you read through the through the post through the Reddit post uh but it was very polarized how one one site thought and obviously it's it's more um people who is not a painter who thinks that um which is the side that thinks that everything looks the same and the styles are just becoming one and then the the people who has the way more trained they

do see the differences and they defend that there is more differences but I think it's it's worth uh listening to the other side that thinks that everything is becoming uh the same because they say it for a reason obviously they don't know as much as we do but if if it's blending in their eyes it does mean something means that there's less jeopardy in the proposals for GD even if obviously we can pinpoint uh an artist in a second when we are there but um it's that need of perfection and rendering what makes it more homogeneous you know >> boring >> I mean it depends if you are Not into it. Yes. Boring.

>> Yeah. Cuz now go and finish the thought. >> I mean for me golden demon doesn't inspire me as much because it's not the proposals are not the my jam, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But if it if they are then obviously you are in your own your own sauce. >> There are a lot of PE pieces like Golden Demons that do um inspire not the white board. I'm like holy shit that's good. >> Yeah. Hey, of course. >> Right. Like >> it's not it's not absolute obviously, >> but but and and I think I've said in the past more so at Golden Demon than at Monty, right? Which you would argue Monty favors more expressiveness because they don't penalize you for having 10 models on a or or whatever, right?

There's no real rules. You can you can there's a category for everything. But still, Golden Demon is much more um heartwarming. No, makes it sound like a love story. It's much more um I like it more. There's more pieces I see that are are like, "Oh shit, that's fucking good." And and blah blah blah. Um and whether they look the same, though. Is it also I don't know what like period you go back. But I feel like it's natural human nature that like we said it last episode, Albert's piece is inspiring bases and um Chris Clay style, right? like it it will I don't know if they're like you Martin and they're like they're not trying to copy that makes more sense. I don't think people are like oh fuck. I think they just see it and they like it and they're like I want to go that way. Right.

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> I think both Alberta and Chris Clayton have influenced the the last few years massively >> in style. Massively. >> Yes. And obviously every every single painter has their own style and you can identify it obviously >> but but they are in the same bracket of things in in in a sense like there's no outlandish proposals or you know very different um some some are like for example kaha kaha has a completely different style right but it's one in a it's one in a million there's not that many people who has proposals like is.

>> And it's pretty rare that you it's pretty rare that you see Golden Demon entries where you might actually know instinctively who painted it >> without the name. Like her stuff is looks like hers. >> Um, did she do the night go? >> I just I just uh I just checked out a bit because I was literally reading on Reddit on my phone what what people were saying. So I just wanted to double check what was going on. But isl are now saying is very polarizing and a lot of assumptions from people who don't seem to compete themselves. >> Yeah. But but if you go back in the past before internet and tutorials and everything, right, people found their own style and the the way they were really influenced was by White Dwarf.

There was no other way, right? There was literally no other things in our industry hobby that had um you know 25 years ago. So people still had natural style. So there was more of a swing >> um and probably internet and people winning and and consuming and looking at these pieces in great detail would be my guess into what's influenced and and that's why when we saw Boho's um Magnus it was like fuck it was shocking because it was it was a huge ass conversion and the paint style was so different from from what you normally see. Whereas Davidid's um dragon on a house, like I saw it in hand now, a photo of him holding it.

It's much more impressive in hand and it and and the colors look a little bit more saturated and contrasty, blah blah blah. But um >> it was still a dragon that you've seen loads on a on a on a model that is from GD versus a completely scratchuilt fucking cliff full of snow and shit. So you had extra difference in that. and and and Lucas's um horse, you know, the Pegasus rider and and um probably even that jewel where you had uh we didn't cover it uh except for in the patron one, but the the knight versus um I think it's a griffin maybe. No, the griffin's pinned down in the other one. It's a jewel. Is it got silver?

>> Oh, it's the scaven thing. >> No, the one before that. The scaven was was silver and the one a guy on a horse fighting in a jewel in a in a little I guess it's diarama maybe anyway there so there's not many pieces or or a better example is the custodes >> that piece is different but what won was a completely generic thing that you've seen literally a million times >> um and so >> but the painting of the custodes I I think that it fits on on the category of of >> um expected proposition if you know what I mean >> which it doesn't take away that it's freaking amazing. It it is >> but it's not it's it's a rendering, right? It's the >> it's how how do you think that would be different? How like that specific piece?

I think a lot of people would argue uh that that's a different technique. So, >> I I I don't actually think I would. I think there's a point for most of the Golden Demon entries this year, I think, were essentially what we're used to seeing, including Bora's thing. Like that's pretty pretty similar, but how would you how do you think like the custod would actually be different? >> Imagine imagine it translate this into the We are very used to seeing uh different styles in 2D, but we are not used to seeing them in 3D. So if you think about do you know how when there is an illustration and there's different styles like uh anime and then cartoon and then we are realistic and then uh oil painting and you know all these very very separate styles.

>> Yeah >> try to think about this in miniature painting. So one is hyperrealistic um rendering which is what we are doing. >> But are we doing the brushstrokey um oil painting? Obviously adapted to the to the size. We I absolutely think that we have to adapt it to the size. Are we doing uh cell shading in golden demon? We are not. Are we doing something more abstract in colors like kaha? M >> generally not. So it's about this this box of u painting realism in a lot of quotes painting realism or rendering realism that we we don't think about uh going out. So yeah, it's a guy in a gold armor, but what else could it be? M >> how much how how how could we represent

this other than just trying to make a uh normal metallic? And of course the first step would be to add more complexity with with lights and ambience and all these things but we could also change the size of the brush stroke. We could change the contrast. For example, um the Graffle Studios, Graffle Studios have a very specific style. You can like it or not, that's fine. But what they do is they they don't play with reality because they put one color and then they put another one and they create contrasts, unexpected contrasts. You could do that, too. Or you could, I don't know, painting black and white and then red like Sin City for example, right?

>> Mhm. >> You could do any kind of >> This would get banned in Golden Demon for sure. >> No, but win though, would it? >> They wouldn't win, of course. >> You know what I think it is? I think I just realized this. I think it's exactly like MMA because in MMA originally, and I don't know if this is specifically like UFC or just MMA is the sport, but essentially you could show up and this used to happen and just be a karate black belt and just do karate and then someone else could be uh into Brazilian jiu-jitsu and then someone else could be just a boxer and they were just a boxer. And over time, it's essentially been boiled down to what arguably is like the best combination of techniques and the most efficient. And that just ends up being the same for everyone.

>> So, it's efficient, bland, >> and that's the best. And it's it it's unfortunately objective how that is now the best. So now you have every fighter. Someone might be more a Muay Thai fighter, someone might be more of a wrestler, but they're going to have a combination of those styles. So it'll be like wrestling, Muay Thai, uh BJJ, boxing, and that's, you know, and there's if someone shows up who is like a sumo wrestler, that would be, I don't know, a novelty and they would probably get defeated. I I feel like Golden Demon now is the same thing where there's a few things. Like if you paint the way I do, but you're like way better at NMM than I am, then you'll probably do pretty well.

They they And by they I mean we we we know we talk about this all the time. The judges are not the same for every year and it's not they're not as conservative as people think they are with like what they prefer, but we do end up seeing a lot of similar things year after year. And I think it's essentially that and like not in a good way. I I totally 10,000% agree with you Arnau that it would be so much more fun to see bold different styles, but that would be too dangerous and too weird for people. I I think that there is this sense of efficiency that is prevailent uh prevalent right now.

>> It's interesting though because I would argue that Clayton I mean he's been there for fucking years, right? The longest probably out of everyone. But that that big twat that he did, the sword, I would argue was a departure from the norm. >> Absolutely. It's a great example. >> Like, so I mean, how is that differently painted? >> The technique is very different. It's bl it's bland. It's a rude word. It's flat. It doesn't um it doesn't have these uh edge highlights, these crisp, sharp contrasts. It's it's tones. >> It's not even trying to paint lights and shadows. He's just trying to represent materials.

which >> Yeah. Okay. Sure. >> in a more drastical way. Like if something's shiny, he he puts gloss varnish. If something >> Yeah. And he he actually made his own metallic paint to look like actual metal. Yeah. >> It's the closest part to it's the closest hobby or style to painting ships or you know, you >> I know what you're saying. Yeah. It's like military modeling cuz it's essentially it's like you said he's he's not thinking so much about the light but just the material. That's true. >> I'm I'm sorry >> I was not >> I know I was not making a point about being it better or wanting it but we were discussing if it is happening and I and I do think it is happening in a way u it it only depends on how much broader our vision is of what things could be.

If you if you understand miniature painting and you don't like anything other than rendering then of course it's it's fine. But if you are if you are are more interested in you know brush strokes or whatever. But so so it basically takes these pioneers people who are who are bored of the um of the status quo and how things are going and and they have the talent also because cuz Chris obviously had that right and but if you took away the conversion and the base he's not getting anything for that painting for sure. He he did the painting is part of it and it's part of the piece, but everything else is is also mind-blowingly good.

>> Um, and I was trying to think of like examples of people, but like even Tibo's entry in America um felt a little bit different and maybe um Andy with that weird bloke and a the Persian guy with all purples and stuff. They're slightly different, but not that different. They're not like huge departures, but they're >> they're different from maybe your squad that won, if you get what I mean, like T-Boss is, but but it's not um something that you can go, "Holy shit, that's really different." If you get what I mean.

>> You just need some weird visionary who's got excellent execution and likes their art. >> To be fair, I do think that most of us paint in the same um in the same bracket of styles. Yeah, there are different styles and nuances, but we all want the same. >> And it's not like we the part and and I understand that someone who is not used to having uh his own head on his butt like we do because we are self um self >> masturbating.

>> What? >> Uh masturbating like we circle. No. >> No. >> Well, masturbating is a given, I guess. I thought you meant like we all love our own sound of our voice kind of vibe. We we >> No. Yeah. We are I don't I can't exactly that word >> but uh it's like a a closed loop. We we do and we watch what we like and >> obviously loop. >> It's a feedback loop. Yeah. >> Um so I understand that someone who is outside this loop >> doesn't see what we seeing.

Is that it? >> Yeah. Exactly. That was was what I was looking >> perpetuating. >> Um, so yeah, I I I can understand the point. >> I mean, I agree completely with it. Yeah. I I like and and that's why when I go to these GD competitions, um I'm amazed by a dog trainer running through some holes, some pipes, and I'm amazed by um some super cool conversion much more than I'm amazed about, like I saw another Reddit post cuz I'm on there now all the time. I'm top 1%. I don't know if I mentioned um and um they were saying like, "Oh shit, that must have taken you hundreds of or like taken you fucking years to do, right?" and and that was the metric of um of what's cool. So I'm imagining that >> yeah the measurement I I completely agree if I'm just looking at uh like almost stepping outside of myself and watching myself react to things. I'm noticing the way I react to

conversions and even just ideas >> is like way way stronger than >> Oh shit. >> Fancy ideas won't win gold in the >> Yeah. And I think especially for the fact that again I technique can still be something that's way beyond my own reach. So it won't be like I'm not interested in this because I can do it. It's like I've seen it and I can I can understand it better. But conversions, I'd be like, "Fuck, that's such a clever idea that you had." >> Like, "Oh, you saw this bit and you did this whole you extract extrapolated this cool idea around this one component." That's the stuff that I really get excited by.

>> Mhm. >> The um >> but that's really kind of subjective. I don't see why necessarily like the competition would go in a direction that awards stuff like that. I don't I think it's harder to award it maybe, but also you have these amazing ideas where the execution technique-wise is not as good as a piece that's flawless and they've clearly spent a thousand hours on. So they're like, "Well, fuck, how can I, you know, in Nottingham Golden Demon, you had the um >> uh Space Marine jumping out of a window of a high-rise building onto a jetack, right?" And you're like, "Fuck." And he's he's done and he's it's forced perspective, right?

>> For perspective. Yeah. >> Fucking brilliant. I don't I don't think he won. I think you might have got commended, but it's like >> No, that was that was bronze. >> Oh, amazing. >> Maybe. Yeah. >> Nice. Um, that won't be something that's really well rendered basically. I don't And and and I'm not saying it should or shouldn't. Maybe it No, like I understand it. It's It's the judges will do it and and every single year without fail if we have different judges, you'll get different results, right? >> Yeah. >> Just like guaranteed. There might be there'll be some that are just clear winners, sure, but generally >> but that's but that specific one is an interesting example because a lot of the other entries in that category were so like Chris Clayton was the gold winner in that category.

>> So essentially that's you know the discussion is for like what do you Yeah. That's the sort of thing. >> But like what else is going on for silver and bronze? And uh and I was in that category with my imperial fist slanish thing. >> And that's uh another another one of those great duels of models just standing next to each other >> uh shouting, which is not such a great idea perhaps idea-wise. That wasn't really That's what I was talking about with like the lack of an idea. It wasn't even a bad idea. It was just >> But in 2012, they were winning. Those jewels were winning where you had people >> Yeah. Yeah. for sure. And the and the painting of that would have won Slayer Sword in 2012. Like that's still the quality of that was nice, but that's like two heavy metal painted miniatures on like a cool detailed base, but they're sort of just standing there.

Whereas the space marine jumping out of a window was an idea. >> Yeah. >> And it was not as well rendered, but it was a cool idea, and that's what was rewarded. >> Yeah. I'm with >> And I can I can definitely see why it was. I can see why they went with that, you know, >> but also to be annoying, the judging panel at that year was very um forward thinking, maybe less worried about marketing and um you know, >> that's true. >> So, >> so maybe uh years down the line, aka two years, um the results might have been different. And it it sadly I mean we can we can only complain as much cuz it's their product so they are doing what they will do but it does slightly frustrate that it's um it's not a competition for the people it's a competition for the business but we do still love it and we go every year and >> yeah of course.

>> Yeah. >> And it's completely valid to to play the game like >> Yeah. It's not it's something that um I did not quite understand was why why is such a bad thing. I mean we we we do want to to appeal to judges in the best possible way and try to do this in the most neatly perfect possible way. So it's it's normal that we all convert into the same style or you know it's it's a broad style but it is a style.

>> It is indeed. >> I am glad that we are here again

together and talking about stuff. >> So that was the first of both questions. >> Y >> well it was meat bow. It was bow and meat, wasn't it? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And then we segueed into the meat, which was a good a good segue. >> God, I'm good. I am fucking good. Do you know sometimes when I wake up and I just think I don't, you know, when I hate life, um I just remember how bloody good I am and I'm like, "Oh, yeah. Life is amazing." >> Because I make it so. Yeah. Cuz I want it to be. Here's another one for you.

Okay. Um would you What would you do for like 10 million quid? >> 10 million? >> Yeah. Someone's just like, "Here's >> what would I do?" >> You're saying like where's where's the where's the limit? Like >> you do almost anything for 10 million, right? >> Very close to anything. Yeah. >> Yeah. Not killing or or or slicing people's fingers off and stuff. >> I don't know, man. >> Close to 500. Fuck it. I mean, kill a bug. Um and then and then if you think like so you do anything for it, but would you not wake up tomorrow for 10 million? 100 million.

>> Not wake up tomorrow. Yeah. So, you get 100 million now and then tomorrow >> you don't wake up. You're dead. >> You're dead. >> Yeah. >> Oh, no. I don't think so. >> Oh, no. >> Yeah. No, of course not. >> So, what you're saying is, let's go back to 1 million quid. 1 million, right? Your life is worth more to you than £100 million. Uh1 billion. So, actually, the greatest gift you're ever going to get in your entire life is just being alive. Nothing money can ever buy is more important to you than your life. So if ever you're like sad or bullshit, try to remember like you're worried about money or you don't have this thing, just your life is more important to you.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Good. Just >> well said. >> Yeah. So, uh, do you take photos of work mid-process to to easier find potential problems? >> Yes. >> What can you repeat? >> This was Bose's second question. Do you want to go to the to No. Yeah. Do you take photos during your pro in your projects to try and find issues? >> No. Okay, good. Next. >> I didn't think I know did I I do sometimes, especially because I do sometimes like Photoshop sketches to >> to try out freehand and uh color scheme changes and shit. So, >> I mean, >> yeah, >> how could I see it better than in my hand, you know?

>> Oh, shit. I mean, not like it's not a it's not a stabbing to anyone, >> but like yeah, I just have it in my hand so why you can see, you know, >> I used to look out. What's that? >> The screen's wobbling for some reason. Is there an earthquake? >> Oh, sorry. >> Fuck. I used to do uh probably before I started using the magnifier glasses, I would take photos to see if like things like eyes were actually if it actually worked.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> Um I remember this one time at band camp when I was Do you remember that? Is that American pie? >> American pie. >> Yeah. Say that all the time and that shows that I've grown up. Um, and I was painting a model and then we went to the cinema and then he came back and he went like this. Wait, I need to see the hand. He went, "Yeah, I thought it was off." He goes, "That's been bugging me the whole film." And and now I can fix that. And he goes, "Just from here." And he was like, "Yeah, cool." So, um, I don't have that in my repertoire yet, Martin, either.

But he he backs up what he's saying with with real life bullshit um >> with with obsessing and not enjoying a movie. >> The I think the film was shit by the way. >> Which film was was it Godzilla? >> Oh, impossibly. It was in in I mean actually Godzilla was quite good. >> Godzilla minus one. >> Yeah, >> we we left the cinema saying this is the worst shit. >> I know. Wait, >> we we we did leave the cinema saying exactly these words bervate him, >> but yeah, go on.

>> Then I thought maybe it's not that bad. >> No, we said how good he felt, how big and scary. But we said the acting was the worst acting we've ever seen in a film in our lives. >> Yes. >> And it was terrible. Like, >> isn't that with um Isn't that with um the >> every Hollywood film? >> Yeah. But it was not Hollywood. No. Are >> you talking about the the Godzilla from like 10 years ago? >> No. No. >> Probably four, five. >> No. Less >> minus one.

>> Yeah. Basically, it was it was like >> it was um the original like first time he ever came out. Not quite a remake, but a homage of someone else's perspective of that. And they spent their entire film's budget on one scene at the end. >> Um and >> the explosions were amazing. Yeah, the best explosions I've ever seen. >> All their money went into that. And they were like, "Do you act?" Just a woman on the street. She's like, "No, right. You're in the film. Come on. You've got the lead." She's like, "Oh shit." Like her whole family's just been nuked to death. And she's like, "Oh no." Like that. Basically, >> it was like anime but in real life.

>> I think anime voice actors are better. Right. Is looking at figures in black and white a good way to assess the overall lighting and value range is good? Absolutely. >> Yep. >> Tick. Word on bow, mate. >> How much do you study real life? Fuck that. >> Well, it's a it's too long. And it's I don't We're going to save some bows for later. >> Uh cuz we've still got to do Faction Feud, boys. >> Yeah, sounds good. >> We've still got fucking thought of the day. We've still got task, motherfucking masters. Okay. >> Oh shit. >> Yeah, this episode is still >> one hour three hours long, >> right? Fucking hell. Okay. He said, "I'm a Greek." No, I'm Italian.

>> Yes. >> Right. It's close. They're both Mediterranean. >> Yes. Very good. So is our now. >> Yes. Saved it. Really? >> Yeah. >> Even though he's from the UK, >> I don't believe in my city in the Mediterranean. >> So really, yeah. >> Where Arno was born is is literally you're drinking the Mediterranean Sea at all times, >> even when you're breathing. Um, okay. >> I I recently found out that Iran >> is not >> Greece.

>> Iran is not Greece. That's right. >> Yeah. >> So, for those of you following at home, the the geography lesson of this episode is Iran is not in Greece. >> It's because they both stick out. So, I thought I thought that was it. But apparently Iran isn't tiny like I thought it was. Someone was like, >> some guy from America was like, I'm gonna fuck up Iran. Okay. Um, and then I was like, >> their president >> probably he's Yeah, I do actually know obviously fully about him. Um, but I don't know if he anyway.

And then I was like, well, it's fine. It's tiny. Like, just go and get the oil and then they can leave, right? I was like, I you know, I'm not a politician. And they were like, what the fuck you took? It's not tiny. It's huge. I was like, "No, >> is actually huge." >> Pretty sure it's tiny. And then I pointed to it on a map and he was like, "That's Greece, you fucking dickhead." And I was like, "Well, I knew that when I zoomed in and saw it, thank you." Um, but then I went to a a map without names. >> It's interesting that that it would be fine to bomb it uh into oblivion because it's >> Yeah. Right.

>> or if it was Greece for that matter. >> Makes it worse. Um, >> the official standpoint of this podcast is not that we should bomb Greece. >> No, I have many Greece friends just covered in grease. Um, >> just a greasy bunch of people. >> How much your study real? No. No. Are your processes the same regardless of scale you paint as with a thick Asian accent? >> That is very much uh an are now question. I've literally just finished one model of a different scale and the process was a little different.

>> I think I'm going to answer for him without him knowing. >> Yeah. Fire away are now. >> I refuse to paint a big size. He won't pay my 30 my 30 cent. No, it's boring for me. Um he he is technically it's the same lack of volume is the same on all scales and um the feeling it's just when it gets bigger it's more boring and harder. You have to refine in more places slightly. >> Oh now yeah that's exactly it. Yeah >> for me it's the same. Yeah.

One day, one day you should you should um do an imitation of me like try to >> I can't do your voice. >> Try to do this fucking har. >> I know I can say arro. >> It's thick Austrian accent. I mean >> do you should we do an episode where we're just imitating each other? That'd be good. I mean, how the fuck are you going to do our now and how are I going to do you?

I can do a Chinese ax and that's it. >> Jesus Christ. >> But I cannot do the You could do All right, mate. You fucking little twat. >> The thing is you don't have traditional >> um chocolate. That's you, Martin. When you, you know, got that little that's Indian, but you've got that little fucking Now you're Indian. >> What the fuck just happened now? Was that something Swedish? >> Yeah, they talk with this fucking little shit. I can't do it. You talk with they have this weird pronunciation on words.

They kind of spit shit, >> which means an accent. >> Yeah, but it's the the Denmark Swedish accent. >> What? We have a different accent because our languages do not sound similar. Swedish and Norwegian sound similar. I honestly thought Norwegian was Denmark. >> Doesn't have that much of an accent. >> That's what I'm saying. How the fuck can you You can't recreate someone without a twatting accent. >> Appreciate I could redo M um MJ. >> MG.

>> What's his mic? >> Yeah, >> I don't know. >> Well, the joke is he's Asian. He's from China, but he's doesn't have >> from Manchester. Yeah. He just sounds like he's from Manchester. >> Look, it was just casual racism. All right. And you brought me up on it. >> Yeah. Yeah. We appreciate casual racism. It's friendly. It's >> for, you know, when I was younger, no one was racist towards me. They were just, he's a white guy. And then as polls became more prevalent in the UK, the endless jokes about me fixing their sinks and uh doing painting and odd jobs around the house. Um >> What kind of name is Hut? Is that Polish? No, it's um the Polish name was um fuck I need to get my birth like Jobsinski.

Um I've butchered my own pronunciation. Um Huter is my dad loves genealogy. He he traced it back to London in like 1640 and then it died. There's no more trace of it. And and loads of Jews came over there and we were massively Jewish. Um and it's probably from Germany because loads of the Jews left Germany then.

Okay. Cool. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. TNM or N&M? >> Wow. >> This is a tough one. >> Is that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? >> Yes. >> Yeah. I am much more into TMM than Eminem. TMNT than Eminem. I think Eminem is a fine MC. I don't listen to any of his music. I know that he's a good rapper. >> I like Teenage Mut Ninja Turtles for just nostalgia. Was that the question?

>> Exactly. And interestingly, I use Eminem to prove that I'm white. >> That's good. That should work. >> People are like, they'll listen to my playlist. They'll be like, "That's a really black playlist." Like, "Hold on." And then they'll be like, "Five." >> Nice. >> No, but I want to still be into rap when I'm trying to be >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Obviously. Um, >> so >> both thinks that we're going to start some shit with >> NM or TM. >> Either or NMM or TMM. >> I didn't realize there was a choice. I thought it was just if you're good, you'll do N&M and if you're bad, you'll do TNM.

>> That is that's 100% the case. >> That is also >> it genuinely >> read more about that on our Reddit uh posts and and argue with us about that. When I first found out >> thinks NM is better >> only at that. When I first found out about um N&M in 2017 or something, I was infatuated by it and I was like whoever does that is a god, right? And I thought I looked down on the tum. Uh and then I started seeing more and more tunams like in pieces without realizing that it was there and you just you don't even know, right? But you still like the piece. So, in a weird way, N&M and Tuminum, N&M only works if it's good, and if it's not good, it ruins fucking everything.

Whereas, tenum, >> completely agree, >> it never ever looks out of place unless you have >> a piece that's like super fucking weird, complex, and then you just bash it like you lose control. But generally, yeah, Tim, I'm like, it fits most purposes much much more. >> Yeah, I agree. I think NMM is much much more unforgiving and if you do it well it can be really uh obviously look amazing and really add something but it does tend to be something that draws attention either because the painter wants it to or because people looking at it are like you said kind of infatuated by what a cool technique it is >> which is a little strange and interesting. I I reacted the same way the first very first time I saw an I also thought like wow >> what a cool crazy different special technique which is a little different to how it is now.

>> Yeah. Well >> what do you think are now? >> Oh I mean it's one of the reasons I am a professional painter. Um, I think it's one of the things that made me want to learn actively. >> And I Yeah, I think the the sky the the ceiling is endless. Is >> literally the sky. >> Literally the sky. Yeah. >> Damn it. But but I I do love pieces with TMM and >> well all my army is painted in DMM and the Ilan also is DMM and I love it. So they just >> I think what one thing that I appreciate with with uh with metallics and TMM that I've I still try to uh I I I I think it's probably not the same kind of ceiling as with NMM like you just said.

I think NMM still has uh a bigger uh range, but I I think when I started working for every metal, there was never really any discussion of should we use metallic paints. That was always going to be the case. So the next question then is like how do you make that look as interesting as possible and keep making that look interesting and add lots of contrast and color. And I'm really glad that that was a challenge that was like set before me and that was being worked on and still is because I do think that there's a lot of things you can do with metallic paints.

So actually I I really tend to um sometimes when I meet people and I do classes and shit there's there's I get a sense sometimes that people are like one of the things that I want to you know finally move on to is like learn how to do an MM and I always say that like that's that's totally fair and you should do it but that's going to be really unforgiving. It's I think what Jamie said just now is actually really a good way to frame it is that it um metallic paint never really looks out of place. Whereas if you do a shitty NMM, especially something big like you want to do the whole armor of something and it looks gray and and blotchy that does look out of place.

>> The light sources simple no metallics for me are like it throw me off. It throws me off. And now I'm starting to look at, and I honestly I think this is 1,000% just the are now effect because I'm starting to look more and more at smooth NMM with just a little more of a stink eye. Like I'm like, >> is that >> is that what I want now? Is that is that I used, you know, it's weird. I'm I think it's my I think No, you don't think it's weird, but I I think it's interesting that I've like I think this is my opinion now and that it's something that I'm I'm not just trying to think what you think because you think it, but you've definitely kind of opened my eyes to like looking at NMM differently. And the more and more I see now of smooth, shiny, perfect, clean NMM, I'm like, hm, it's not it's not looking as right as it used to.

>> Yeah. >> Can look good, but it doesn't look right. I think it's important for us to get those mistakes though as a community, right? You you have to go there to come back. You we don't know and then you explore like we're just doing what painting did for over a thousand years in like 15 20 years cuz we've already got all their experience. Um like I learned it on my Azour and I think the N&M I did is the weakest part of the whole model and I I I don't regret it being there but it's like yellow and weird and and the placements aren't right. it doesn't follow the flow and and like I was thinking about it while I was answering or while you guys were talking like if I did that with Tuminum I think it probably would have taken away from the piece but also maybe not the fact that I wouldn't cuz it's a bigger piece it's like a 120 >> real life 13 cm like if I just added that and then added some highlights in there >> I don't know but definitely right now with with what's there it's like it's kind of shit um compared to where the armor looks okay and blah blah blah.

Like that's like >> I think the the danger of the TMM is that it it's very easy that it doesn't add anything. >> Yeah, it's flat. >> It just completes the piece. >> It doesn't it doesn't detract, but it doesn't add any anyway. Yeah. >> Uh, and so that's the danger. Doing a a good um TMM that adds something to the piece is difficult. Obviously, same as it is difficult to to make an MM that doesn't make you want to put your eyeballs out.

>> Good. Right. Thank you, Bo. We will continue your messages. I mean, Dr. to love brush questions another episode cuz I am >> Oh, I've got I've got a quick one. I've got Wait, wait, wait, wait. I've got a quick one. One of his questions that I know he wants answered. It's going to take seconds. You're He's asking about my proprietary uh patented satin satin varnish mix. >> Uhhuh. >> It's uh AK Ultra Matte. It's uh VJO, what's it called? Polyurethane gloss varnish. because that's just what I happen to have gloss varnish and then it's a bunch of lamian medium I think I'm pretty sure it's lamian medium I think those are the only three basically the ultra the ultram matte is just ultra matte ling medium is slightly satin to begin with but it's just a medium so it's not quite enough to do anything the the polyurethane gloss is has a a real thickness to it gives a coat and then obviously the mix is what makes it satin I use that through the airbrush on a lot

of things I paint to give it like that perfect even. >> Is this now you know what's that? >> Is this what you do on all your models? >> More and more, you know, more and more. I I just found that it really helps to uh to set the finish. If I've done a bunch of glazing, particularly with things like um ar like space main armor and stuff, >> um it's great if I've done a little bit of touching up and glazing. And if the the base coat that I used has a slightly less matte finish than the touching up little dots that I've done in in a in the in a certain light, you can get little weird reflections. I mean, I'm talking very very like minute details, but if I just put the thinnest layer through my airbrush of this satin varnish, then that'll sort it all out.

And if I've been using like transfers and stuff, I'll probably want to airbrush some satin varnish anyway. >> And instead of buying something that that is called satin varnish, but is usually more gloss than I want it to be. I just made my own. >> Yeah, I usually make my own as well with that. >> Yeah, exactly. Yeah. >> Oh, well, there you go. Instead of BJO, I use the what's it called? The GW1 art code. >> Yeah. Art code. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That should work just fine >> with with AK. That's what I use. >> Yeah. >> Well, you heard it here first, boys. Not on the other podcast.

Um, we will put a pin in uh the get good banter because uh they hate it and they've they've publicly said that they wish we didn't do it. So, um I mean I might it might slip out, but until I get confirmation that they're not boring cunts, >> I'm going to I'm going to stop. All right. And we don't need much. We don't just a slit just the smallest >> joke. Somebody else who listens to them cuz apparently our listeners just 100% listen to the same thing. Um I don't need much to work with here. Okay. Good.

Good. Um, just just just a fucking little hint that you're not really really boring is all I need. Okay. Now, I'm not even saying you don't like it is fine cuz

then I'll know and that then I won't be like they're boring. I'll just like he doesn't like me and that's fine. I can I can handle that a lot better than I can now. Do you want to do Faction Feud or should we just knock it on the head and call it a day? faction uh task masters and uh thought of the day. >> Let's do that. Yeah. And leave. How long is the episode already? >> 1 hour 36 minutes and 32 seconds. >> Okay. Let's do then dash masters and thought of course.

One, two, eight. One through eight. Five. >> Five. Oh god, this is my more positively bullshit that I do. Um, right. I think I spoke to you on now about this. Maybe it was you and or it might have been my daughter, possibly also my wife. The the concept of having I've never had a bad day in my life. Okay. >> Yeah, we literally talked about it a couple of days ago.

>> It's annoying that I think you're my wife. Um, so Martin, >> I I fulfill a lot of roles. Hm. More than my wife >> and and I don't know if we dived into it deeply. So I Yeah. Someone goes, "I'm having a bad day." And I was like, "What? What do you mean you're having a bad day?" And they were like, "My day's just been awful. I'm having a terrible day." I was like, "This is inwardly." I was like, "I don't know what how can you have a bad day?" And she was like, "Well, fucking hell. Water got splashed on me at work. I ruined my favorite dress. and now some other shit had just happened. I was like, "Well, you're not having a bad day. You had some bad things that happened to you, but your day like you why is your day ruined because of it?" Um, >> that sounds like semantics.

>> Well, she believed that her day had been ruined by these things >> and other people had similar. I've heard it, but I'd never quite clocked that somebody could admit to having a bad day. So, that was it. That was the thought of the day. you bad days don't exist basically. Um if you think that bad days can exist then maybe they can. But really you had one isolated thing that happened to you that wasn't good >> and you're still alive. >> It's it reminds me a little bit. It's funny when people find connections which is very sensible. Well not it's it's logical that you would do that. You would think like three things happened that I'm not happy with. this is now what happened this day instead of thinking about like how you didn't get run over by a car. But it reminds me a little bit of this happened a few times when there was like you know four famous people that someone I know knew of cuz I mean people died like people died all the time and then there was like one celebrity died

and then another one and then another one within the course of I don't know two weeks and then I I I meet some friends and they're like what's going on man like all these people are dying like what's going on? I was like, "Nothing's going on. Do you What do you actually think this is a conspiracy or something? What do you mean by that? Like this is there's thousands of people die all the time. You don't know about most of them and you happen to know the names of like a few because they're famous. >> It's not really that much of a coincidence. >> Um >> or it is absolutely a coincidence is what I'm saying. It's not like actually >> it's like what's going on? It's crazy how many people are dying." Like it's not that crazy. It's just a Yeah, it's actually almost the normal thing that could ever happen.

>> It's It's crazy normal. It's And it's a little bit like that when it sucks when several bad things happen to you in a day. But uh it's Yeah. making that sort of uh >> almost like a label to it to >> Yeah. The labels I don't like as you know. Um although we are the best podcast. So, um, a thought though, uh, on on a flip side, let's just say, um, in the morning you get an email and you've lost your job and it was a job you loved more than anything. Okay? It's your favorite job you've ever had. They give you cake, money, and sexual advances, but you can't act on them by some people in the office.

>> Um, >> best ever. >> It would be really, really would be. And then T would be like, "Why are you so happy?" you were like, "Another girl cracked on me today. What you worried about?" Um, then are you having a bad day? >> Yeah, there's a there's a danger of labeling the bad days, but because then you miss on the good day stuff. >> Admittedly, you you you are put in a worse mood. >> But I've lost many a job and I've got many a job and I've also lost a lot of money. Okay, take that one out cuz edit that because that is definitely you do actually have a bad day then. So maybe it's a chemical imbalance on these people who say they have bad days. Um when I've lost those jobs, I'm not annoyed at the day and there's still either good shit that's happening but for a few or whenever I remember I remember and I'm like oh that was annoying. I think the the the bad day refers to your mood is is a bad day in in the sense of the mood, right?

>> Yeah. >> It it can be the most normal day of your life and you still got a bad day because you're in you're in a rut. >> Yeah. It's like what it is. >> It's not the day that is bad. >> No. No. I never thought the day was bad. I thought that they're having a bad day. And I realized it's probably just my um my predisposition for happiness that means that most days aren't bad. even when bad ditch, you know, and when you lose your job, you're like, well, yeah, okay, that's annoying. And don't get me wrong, like there are things that can happen which will spoil your mood for the whole day and probably actually some weeks, dare say months.

>> I mean, I if if my car was the one that was uh wrecked when we were playing um Hero Quest, >> I would not have done the next game like 100% for sure. >> Well, you wouldn't have gone home and played. No. Uh, in a million years I would have gone like you you had your your car wrecked and then we went home and we played and we laughed. >> If my car was that car >> Yeah, >> I would have Yeah, that game would not happen. >> What? So that would be just like the end of your day or now that would be you're done with that day.

>> I mean I would definitely not go play Hero Quest on >> Well, what would you what would you actually do then? I'm I'm curious now. >> Just go home, I guess. Well, yeah, I would go home. >> Yeah, that so that's what I'm saying. You're you're like, I'm going home and >> it was like 10 in the at 10 at night. So, >> yes, that is true. It was it was it was the perfect time for your request >> and then that day would be So, what if your car crashed earlier in the day? Would would that still be like I need to process this thing with anger and resentment? >> Um, probably not. But I it would take a couple of hours or three to stop.

>> Yes. >> To stop to stop hating on the world. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Of course, >> that's fair. You You got to You got to cope with it the way you got to cope with it. I feel like Jamie, you're very good at coping with things by either not or embracing everything in the most possible way possible. I think it's cuz everything works out. So yeah, but that's it's it's an it's an insane but but somehow accurate model is what it is.

>> Yeah, it isn't. But this is actually a good point. So everything works out. But I don't have a car now. I just bought the car and I loved it. So I'm It's like fuck. Um now I have to look for another car. and spend more money. So it's so many inconvenience that yeah of course when when I go through them yeah everything will work out after I solve them but I still have to solve all the things and I know that I will be okay two years later of course I will be >> slow recovery >> well or or five or three month I get you get you >> but but it's still I still have to go through a lot of inconvenience and I'm annoyed because I have to go through all these inconvenience. But >> think about what you gain from it. You you you this car is immortalized in your head now. You you you that car that you've fucked up that you had and you loved. You will always love.

>> How immortalized would it be? Hm. >> You know how how more immortalized would it be if it was in front of you in my that's very >> No, but that that doesn't like I've got cars in my head that were the worst cars I've ever had and I've had cars that I loved and admittedly I never got any of them until well I've had it once before but yeah you those things aren't big deals. They're nothing. They're a they're a mild footnote. >> They know that it's not a big deal. No one. No one died. But they're inconvenience.

>> But inconvenience in what? Like if you if you an inconvenience is I've lost a finger. >> That's an inconvenience, right? You're like, "Ah, fuck. >> Damn." >> Yeah. >> So what even So when your car got smashed in London, Jamie, that was like that barely deserves a reaction from you. >> It's just something that happens in life. It's just another experience. was talking with the police with the police woman and laughing and >> I in fairness I would have done that but it would have it would not have been a good experience like I wouldn't I wouldn't just be like fuck it I'm guessing you now have to have your car serviced and at your expense or what's going to happen >> well I need to find out if the guy had if it was really but but I don't care it just it will work out do you know what I mean I'll in a couple of weeks I'll remember and I'll I'll fucking I'll call up and chase case and then if I don't they'll probably call me and even if I don't do that it nothing even if I don't do anything and I pay for it so what like

>> I'm not talking about like it just it it's fine it's nothing >> what what would happen if instead of 1,500 plus was 50,000 >> I'll be like damn that's annoying but so what in 10 years I'll pay that off like it's done years like like >> yeah like what my debt was 9 years. It's going to finish in August. I've not once in those nine years thought, "Oh, I can't wait till the end of 9 years." I've just been like, that's just the journey you're on. And it doesn't like it.

>> God damn. >> Everything happens that that will happen, right? Don't get me wrong. Don't get me wrong. If if I if I got in the car and all my family's killed and I end up with no legs, okay, I I will be like, "Fuck, I wish I had have done a shit before we left because then we wouldn't have had that crash." So So there's going to be things in life that you're like, but I mean, you may as well maybe not be alive at that point. I'd probably rather have it died in the car. But like, yeah, it's too it's too extreme of an example because that is life altering, right? And that is that that is changing a lot of stuff in your life. No legs for fuck's sake. And um I won't meet a new girl at that point and I've had to snip.

So the whole family's dead. I've got no chance of meeting new women. I'll have to really engross myself in painting. Um so yeah, it all works out. basically the car crash, everything like they're not inconveniences. They're only in as inconvenient as you feel they are. >> I'm not >> I think I think I I think there's a danger with this attitude, but there's also something very very good about it. The danger is if you never learn from anything and if you forget or ignore when something is actually your >> you do though. You're not you're not just um like >> No, but like there's a danger if if you if you say like oh well it is what it is. This happened, move on. If that if you say that about like a parking ticket as I know you have and uh like I I had a very minor accident with a car when I it was a rental car and I backed into a thing and I had to pay a fine. And I remember and I just thought of it now because you were talking about this

thing with your car and and literally my whole reaction was like >> and then I just paid the money. Um and it was and I would much rather not have paid that money. But it it didn't really get to me that much cuz that was the end of that story was just me paying a fine and was like gh that was a really unnecessary thing. Fuck it. And then I just thought like well you know that's it is what it is. I wish that happened, but I'm I there's so many other better things either, right? Oh, right. Sorry. Sorry. >> Was that >> No, no, go on. Go on. >> Oh, no. That was that was in the It was in the thing I had. They don't have uh they don't have risk uh wave, you know, you can't I couldn't choose to have all of the what's it called? The damages waved. It had It was only >> um It's not a deposit, but it's basically a deposit.

>> Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, if if I do something where uh someone else is uh affected and I you know I fail like my girlfriend in one way or another and she gets upset. If I have the same attitude of like eh well it is what it is. >> That makes me a piece of shit. But you don't have that attitude cuz cuz >> No, I don't. I don't. I'm saying >> no no I'm saying with everything works out doesn't mean you admit all responsibility and you just go around life not you know not calling work not calling doctors if you cancel an appointment like that's that's not the point >> you're not everything works out >> yeah you're not suddenly a a reprimat anything that affects me >> that doesn't upset me I don't care >> my dad's fuming like you've got to do this Albert's incensed when the car crashed into me like I don't I gain nothing from having feelings other than for that thing. Now don't get me wrong that that money that I've lost I could have put into something I love or savings um Magic the Gathering really.

Um but I don't I don't lose anything. Obviously it's different if I have 100 quid in my bank and um I can't pay rent or I can't eat right or I can't pay my bills. That's different. >> So at that point that that's not it will be all right. I mean, actually, yeah, it will probably still be all right. >> But, um, it still has an impact more in your life then, but but yeah, like I mean, I've never had a situation where it something didn't work out. It's just a long enough period. You just have to not you don't be so siloed in on your on.

So, anyway, are now Yeah. All those inconveniences,

they're not inconvenient. They're just something you've got to do. >> It doesn't matter. But I would rather not. >> Yeah, but you you have to. So why think >> Yeah, I know. I know. I mean, and and don't get me wrong, I'm I'm more like you than than not like you, you know. I don't worry too much about all these things. >> But I still would be annoyed that >> my car is fucked. So Jamie, here's another question, and I know how I feel about this, but when you don't get particularly annoyed at the thing that happened with your car, but Albert does, do you appreciate that as like empathy, or do you just think that it's unnecessary?

>> Unnecessary. >> Do you empathy? Like, why? Don't be annoyed. I'm >> I'm not annoyed. How can you be annoyed about something, >> right? Yeah. Like it there's things to be annoyed about, right? Like racism, >> homophobia. Get annoyed about those things. No, but really there's there's there's I think there's things to get annoyed about and then and then there's basically >> like a billion other things to not get annoyed about. And money is the last thing you should ever be annoyed about. Yeah. Like if someone broke into my entire house and stole everything, >> all the stuff I have, the money and everything. Um, the thing I'd miss the most would be the memories I have on my computer, not the things that are worth money.

>> Do you know what I mean? Like, >> yeah, >> I'd be like, "Ah, fuck. That was basically my retirement." >> It will still work out. AI will come along. The only thing that probably won't work out is um global warming. Yeah, that I think that one is not going to work out in the uh in the official with with regards to the official motto of the podcast, everything will work out. I actually think >> global warming >> the species will not. >> Yeah. So, >> but again, really that's fine because if all humans die, it still works out.

>> Oh, yeah. Planet Earth is going to be >> Well, unless we fucked it, but I think it could recover once we if we were dead. >> I think it'll recover. Yeah. a couple hundred years are we like oh actually I don't know what >> absolutely >> yeah so it's fuck it the inconvenience that you talk about are only as important as you want them to be >> yeah yeah of course but also it I I look at it from another point of view of you know how my work uh my effort in my work impacts directly on my earning things.

>> Yeah. >> So that means that I will have to put more effort in my work. So it's like a ripple effect of things and I will not be able to do other stuff because you know I depend more on my money >> and I I earn it in in a more difficult way you know so it impacts me in a lot more diff in a lot more ways. But that that just literally means that you you don't yet believe in it in the saying. >> No, I I actually believe in it. I just know that it's through my effort that everything turns out.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, but but it has to be through your effort. The the >> Yeah, of course. >> Yeah. >> But I wish I I didn't have to put all this unnecessary effort that I I didn't have to put 3 minutes ago. We spoke about this though like >> yeah with it length. >> Wouldn't you Martin, would you rather have a million pounds that you'd find on the street? No, you get it. You win it in a competition or some shit. It's not like you steal it. Um or over the next year you work and you get a million pounds. So the outcome's the same. One is no effort whatsoever and the other is you've earned it and it's yours by right. Which would you rather?

This is a very like example. >> No, but that's fundamentally what it is, right? It's is >> it's not >> No, that that was what I was asking you. Would you rather get it for nothing or would you rather earn it? >> No, it's I put you a better example on this. You have a million pounds that you've worked your ass off to get. >> Yeah. And in a heartbeat you lost you lose them because I don't know you forgot something and it fell and and uh crash came burning and just whatever >> and it it destroyed your million million pounds or yours or whatever >> and then would you rather go back in time and and remember >> it's a new one but yeah okay >> and you go back in time and and remember that. So you are able to fix it before it happens or you'd rather go five more years to get to the same point.

>> I mean if it defeats the point of of that is the opposite of >> No, it's not everything works out. >> Exactly what I what what we are talking about. It's exactly what we're talking about because what you're regretting >> is your stupidity is your your your >> your chance of not doing something different. >> No, but the point of the everything works out is is not having those regrets. Martin, your thing is shaking again for some reason. >> Oh, sorry. Sorry. >> So, it's like that that's the whole point though. Everything works out and then all of a sudden you've got a fucking time machine. Where are you going to stop? I'll go back and not make that mistake. And I'll >> It's just a oneoff time machine.

>> I see. I see. I see. I see. The wizard pops out of nowhere and says, "Look, if this is and it will never happen again." >> Yeah, of course. It's a fucking hypo hypothetical. >> Yeah. I would then fine. I would I would go back and not have I'd post somewhere else. Yeah. >> Of course. >> Yeah. But >> of course, >> but but that doesn't prove like like it doesn't change my output. Like cuz then if it's a one-off thing, yeah, I'll go and rectify things that went wrong. But the point is overall arching my concept is like everything will work out. >> Yeah, I know that. Okay, >> I know that everything will work out.

This is pretty loud. >> How is it? Right. Sorry. >> Um I know everything will work out, but I wish I I didn't had >> Yeah. Well, I don't Yeah, I don't because implies that you regret it. >> A minute ago, I didn't have to, right? A minute ago, I had this million pounds in my pocket that I already earned. >> And now for a for a chance, I I need to work it out again. And yes, of course, it will work out, >> right? Yeah.

>> But I just wish I didn't have to work on it again. >> I lost out on on about a million and a half quid by 50p. Okay. um in 2018 or 19. And I don't I don't have regrets about that. So So I think what we're talking about is more about regretting >> because I I I'm aware I remember it, right? Which means that it it impacted me. I I remember it, but I don't think ah fuck, I wish I had have done X to get more. It was basically like on a on a on a CFD, a stock thing. Um, I put like 17 grand into FISA, similar. I can't. And it was worth like I think I bought it 11p and it went up to 200 quid. Okay.

Um, and so, but I don't regret I don't feel guilty that I didn't put 17,50p cuz that's when it stopped out, right? It went over by that. Um, and I'm like, it was just an experience that I did. It taught me. >> Yeah. but to keep trying. >> It's still not the same because you never had those that money. >> What what I'm you know what you're see >> I get what you're saying. Yeah. The concept >> my my thing is you are you were right and now for a chance you are wrong and things will go right again but the fact that it changed from right to wrong.

>> Yeah. But the qu the question shouldn't be can you reverse it. The question should be, will you regret it? Because nobody in their sane mind wouldn't reverse that, right? >> No, I know. I know. And and I'm not going to lose years crying over anything. I'll just be annoyed. >> Yeah. No, I would I would I'd have a I'd have probably one month of severe anger and depression or whatever around that because my wife hates my guts now because I just lost a million pounds. Um, but instantly as soon as I lost it, my my view would be I can get it back again. 5 years is not the end of the world. 5 years is is almost nothing. What really what I'd regret is if I had um five grand in my pocket and uh I had to pay a medical bill and I couldn't afford it and then I' I'd chastise my own self for not maybe having more money, saving better.

Um like the losing a large amount of money that you don't need isn't going to I'm not you can't have regrets over that. You just be like well fuck >> that's but that's a fundamental issue that we are talking about. I'm I'm talking about something that you do need. >> Okay, cool. Let's So, let's say I needed that money. Then I then I would just be like, "Right, how do what can we do now?" I wouldn't be like, >> "Yeah, but I would do that, too." >> Good. >> I'm just I I would I'm not saying that I will not This is the worst episode or whatever. But I'm not saying that I would not fix it. I would obviously, but I would be annoyed. is is just the fact that being annoyed at this is so so natural.

Obviously, it it doesn't take away me fixing it >> or anything anything that that that happens and any setback that you have being annoyed at it is not bad is not acting on it that it is bad, but I could be annoyed and still fix it. That's but yeah, and my point is obviously everyone has their natural um things that and their their things that annoy them. >> My point is if you're able, remember that it all works out and then you will lower or increase your tolerance on these things.

>> Um that's that's the point of everything works out. It's not to give you a trick into just avoiding I know. >> Yeah. So like like I'm going through some shit with Tina right now and which I didn't know about Martin by the way. This came out of the blue out of nowhere. She was just like by the way we need to do some shit cuz this isn't working for me. And I was like but literally two weeks ago you were like this is the best time of our lives. So I need to work out that. But when I was thinking and going through the different scenarios on on we we break up, we have the kids, we blah blah blah, I was I was like, "Ah, but it will work out." Like everything will work out. Whatever happens in that situation, I know what I would rather have happen, but if it doesn't happen to what I want to happen, I'm like, >> it will work out. Like the nothing bad will happen.

It will just be a difference, right? So like we're not married anymore. That's bad on paper and it is bad. I'd rather it didn't happen, but also it's not bad like, >> you know, it just it will be a different reality on the road. It's like timelines from the MCU. You're just on a different timeline and you and if you want to um be annoyed by that than you can or if you want to just go, "Yeah, everything works out and this is where I'm going to be, life's a lot easier." That's the crux of it on now. Can you reverse a million pounds and keep

>> No, I know. >> Yeah, I know. >> You know how I am. >> We spoke about it already, right? Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm not I'm not specially annoyed at anything and I go through things and >> but still it's like Yeah. I wish I wish it didn't happen, you know? Fuck. >> Yeah. I smashed my one meter avatar the 3D print. You did? >> Yeah. Like two and a half years ago, I threw a tea towel into the kitchen and it landed on his sword.

>> Oh, that Yeah, of course. I knew I thought you were talking about a new thing. You told me about the tea towel. >> I was like, "Ah, fuck. I'm going to have to print that all again." >> Yeah, >> but that's a mild inconvenience, right, boys? Oh, task masters. Is it even any point after that last 20 minutes of uh >> I um I don't remember where I am anymore. That was just the most uh >> I enjoyed it. just 45 minute TED talk about it's good philos good philosophy >> it literally was only about 12 minutes >> it's about 12 minutes yeah >> from start to finish like should we >> so task masters is I've not had a a great idea I'm a little stressed with commission work so I I've not done any taskmaster stuff you guys started on yours >> I haven't yet which is not great >> we haven't spoken about it we didn't talk about it at all in last episode >> so that's I wanted to remind um >> we are at the 17th of April already. So we have half a month.

>> Yes, >> it'll be fine. >> Yeah, it will. Everything will work out, right? >> It literally will. So it actually >> right good. Cheers guys. No, but anybody who doesn't know the task master is to create a base uh any kind of base you want. Scenic base, big bass, small base. Um ideally bigger is better than a 28 mil with some sand on. In fact, I I think we dare say that you can't do that. >> Yes. Yes. Please. >> Yeah. It's a >> And if it's possible like Yeah. any make it as beautiful as possible just having a base without any character.

>> Yeah. You can put critters on it though. Small animals. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Wow. It is good to be back. Um that is of course >> Do you have any just just do you have any idea like any whatsoever? I personally don't want to spoil it for everyone. I do uh I do have an idea. It's just going to be an auntie farty little twatty um foresty vibe cuz I've wanted to do that for a while. Um I threw away all my real trees though. Um my mom took them to school. I' I'd had them in the loft for like four or five years. Dried out perfect. Like she took them to school cuz the kids would want them. Didn't bring them back.

Okay, cool. I need to find an idea. >> What kind of an idea? >> Yeah, I don't I've I've got uh probably some what's the word? Some materials, some stuff that I could start building from. So, I might do that. I guess I've had ideas for bases for actual products and I could potentially try those out >> without the model that this seems like a good use of this taskmaster. >> Oh no.

>> Except of course the point of the of task masters is to not have a point. >> Yeah. Well, um I thought of doing an indoor um that's cool >> which I'm not sure if I'll do or or something. I don't know, a little bit different. I have I haven't done I like forest bases, but I've done a lot of them. >> So, probably something would be quite >> with wound or sounds cool >> with uh I don't know.

>> Uh should should we cut out all that conversation, do you think? >> No, no, no. God, no. >> I mean, I could just cut out like 12 minutes of it. >> No. Thought of the day. Conversations around thought of the day. This is important. >> Good. 2 hours, 7 minutes, boys. It might be our new longest episode. Thank you for joining. Thank you for get good for being good sports and always uh matching my banter. And um thank you you two. >> Thank you. F.