Divorce in the Miniature Painting World

Welcome back. I do you know what? I don't even know what episode it is. Fucking I have no fucking clue. Um >> look, I'm sure we can get an answer to that. >> Yeah, I mean I I literally could >> which is important. >> Is it? >> No. God know. >> Good. >> Absolutely not. >> It feels like it's been an like a lot has happened now. We did make a promise not to go into personal stuff at the beginning of the episode. >> Did we? >> When was it? I mean >> LA last week we were like we were like let's just give the viewers what they want which is like hardcore painting shit and then we like I'll give the in I'll give the new >> I mean we we we should keep some some painting things like just to honor our name just >> that's well that's what I'm saying there's a paradigm shift we good good see >> you know >> I don't I don't condone picking noses in public I mean I don't I don't really condone picking noses in public blowing nose This is fine as long as you're using like a tissues and not just like >> Yeah, of course.

>> Although >> got to do what you got to do. >> Somebody does do that. But I'm talking public transport, not just like on the street. Anyway, we have the news. I have no news, but maybe you guys do. We have >> Yeah, we've we've had some some painting activities going on. We can talk about that. >> Thought of the day. >> We have a divorce to discuss. >> [laughter] >> We have [snorts] we have um and then we've got Dr. Love Brush which is basically the main stay of this whole thing cuz we like when we say we don't plan stuff, right? I just want to stress this is the least least planned.

>> Well, let me challenge you on that because I have I do have a topic in case. >> Why the fuck wouldn't we just start with that? because we had like three three. Yeah, we didn't. I recognized this.

>> Well, in look, I will just say we are 2 minutes 50 in and we've already got more done than we normally would. So, a brief nose picking discussion I'm all right with. Sets the tone. People are like, >> "Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course." >> You know, classic mini matters. >> That was like 20 seconds. >> The irony is I mean, that is [clears throat] what we're about. You know, I I was so in in a muddle last week that I didn't even upload a thumbnail, >> right? Or two weeks ago in the last episode. And it it I mean, it did awfully, by the way, the episode. But but at least people watched it. I'm not saying we're good, but we are fucking good, boys. That's all I'm saying. Um so, or I have advert ideas as well.

That's a new segment where I I give you and Oh, no. That actually that's not a segment. That was literally me writing down advert ideas cuz I want to start doing ads on the thing, right? >> Yes. I mean, you had this idea for a while. >> Yeah, I know. But it's so much fucking work. Like, I have to do music. I have to act, which I can't do, by the way. >> Yeah, you can. >> Nah, >> I'm sure you can. This is Scottish. >> All right, mate. Yeah, I suppose. But it's shit acting. Like, like my idea was like you have some famous painter and and like it's a voiceover and it's like struggling to paint models. why not paint someone who doesn't give a fuck about your models and they'll paint it for you? It was like along those lines like you know a commission thing and it was basically taking the piss out of C Studios and also um somebody else who has done stuff for me that was dog shit and they clearly didn't give a shit and you pay all that money for it.

>> So it was a it was a bit of a satirical look at the modern commission world >> and that's just what I'm about, you know. I still got an itch there which I really want to like get but I'm like I just can't. Right. So, >> [snorts] >> um and that's fuck it. That's it. We've got Dr. Love Rush. We've got Thought of the Day. We've got We're together, right? And we're here and and what's more important than being together? >> Nothing. I've missed you very much. I now did have a subject, didn't he? You said you just said you had a a topic for the >> Yeah. I don't believe him.

>> Yeah. It's a very very I don't know how meaty it is. Maybe it's just a very very uh rakitic and almost dead cow, but who who knows? >> I had a theory. >> Dead cows all the time, [clears throat] >> but it's I had a meat of the day, but it's fucking close to home. >> Close to home. It's like >> we're all We're literally inside our homes. >> It's always close to home. >> It's like, should you even talk? It's not like bad stuff like healing children and stuff. It's not like that, but it's like it's too close for people, I think. Just just just >> Okay, how to phrase it? I was going to make a really good racist joke then, but I thought no, it won't that won't work.

[laughter] Basically, all these divorces that are happening, this is the meat of it. >> Oh, okay. Okay. or unhappy relationships, are they caused by model painting or are they a consequence of it? Like are they a side effect of it? Is that going to keep reading? I wonder. Yeah, it's going to keep reading. Right. So, there's [snorts] my mom checking in on me. >> She's lovely. Um, you understand? So, do do all these unhappy relationships in Warhammer happen because people paint or are they unhappy in their relationship which means they paint?

>> Right? And that's the meat of it. Now, there's a lot of assumptions there that anybody, you know, all these painters that are painting don't have happy relationships. But I look around and a lot of people look fucking miserable is what I'm learning. And I think that that like So, do we want to go down that road of meat of it? Oh, it's got you are now. It's zoomed in on you. >> Yeah. Wait, I have to close the doors. >> I see. I see. I see. >> One of our now's hundreds of cats climbed onto him and the camera tried to follow him. >> Uh, [snorts] it's an interesting question.

>> So, you want to theory here? >> Yeah, that's the meat of it then. Fuck it. Right. Let's do a Dr. Love Brush. We'll come back to that later. All right. We're going to I'm going to pepper you with Dr. Love Brushes. All right. Arnel. Fucking hell. Aggressive. Um, Steven the seventh listener has asked >> Mhm. >> We should do news, but fuck it. We can just dip in. Bringing back my question from two weeks ago, which is ironic cuz this was literally 5 months ago now. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> I'm new to display painting. Not anymore. Um, and I never know what to do on the shadow side. I know it depends on setting, ambience of the figure. Uh, what do you guys suggest as the most common way to paint shadows and how can I practice it? And then there's more. Could I use this is his theories. I don't know, Steven. I don't think Steven's even active on the Discord anymore. I think he didn't get an answer to this. He was like, "Fuck you all." Anyway, could I desaturate colors, more saturation, lower overall

values on the model? At the moment, I'm painting a figure situated in a blizzard-like environment. He's probably finished that now. >> Any guidance could be useful. Thanks, boys. You have the seventh useal silent listener. Now, if you want to use models to show an answer, people have been loving it. >> Screen share. >> Oh, no. Go ahead and share your screen and take over this entire question. [laughter] >> Well, I I would have to do some research to to illustrate things properly. So actually if you want to start and while I do some research >> I think I can answer this for now.

>> Okay. >> First of all at Spaghettiios of course >> now this is the only Spanish I ever learned Martin at school. Um and I believe that in fact I think I only know the answer. Don't don't don't desaturate and all that shit. Or maybe you can but most of all don't use blacks. Use um tones with nice beautiful colors and um make it Yeah, fuck. I don't know. Use purples, use blues, don't use blacks, don't use whites. >> This is all good. I think I would also say desaturate a little bit. It sounds good. Uh cooler tones is probably going to look right. I think the key is to not use the same uh paints but fewer highlights. I think that's the way people think they want to go is to just highlight the shadow side less than the but I think rather like >> render it properly but using slightly different I think Arnal is just going to do a much better job of this.

>> Well, he's got to do research cuz he's arty and twatty. But um I think that he said that it's >> any photo of anything you painted. Fuck's sake. >> Well, you've got a blizzard, right? So, he's in a cold atmosphere. Now, I would have thought that my natural instinct on there would be to >> let's say you've got a cloak and it's desaturate. No, sorry. It's on the it's on the front, but his leg is covering it, so it's in fully shadow, right? >> Yeah. >> My instinct would be literally >> mix up some blues, the same blues that I painted the rest of the cloak with, and then whack in annoyingly some black, right? And I know that's going to be wrong because you instantly lose any kind of, I guess, tonal variation. It just goes darker, but it doesn't actually give you any feel, >> but it also goes grayer. You also you also do desaturate it by >> which you will naturally have by having a shadow, right? There [clears throat] is naturally less light.

>> I think that sounds pretty good, actually. >> But what? No, I think it would just it would lose any kind of >> uh what's the word? >> Vibrancy. >> Yes. Well, like it would it would start to be feeling more unnatural, maybe more um >> it would be like a high contrasting thing that I don't want to add this extreme high contrast from black. I think I would much rather have it um be more nuanced and feel tonally darker while still not maybe having that same thing.

A pink Yeah. >> Well, I I think it's >> How did we do Arnell? How was that? Seven out of 10. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, >> no, it was a three then. Basically, >> I think um saturation and contrast are some of the things that they hold a special place in our in our industry in and as in they are goals and they are um you know all these things that we we need to aim for.

But the saturation and low contrast are actually not bad by itself. They just need to fit a purpose. Most more often than not when when we want to do something desaturated, we'll come across as moody and cold. Uh so more even if we put some blues, but the saturation is not bad at all. It can work. So I'll obviously share my screen because that's what I've been doing.

>> I mean, we've only done it once. So, how have I set this up good enough to click the button? Fuck, I'm good. You guys didn't see that, but it was seamless. Oh, I've literally just shared the screen. I see. Hold on. Okay, so I've I've looked through Pinterest a little bit uh to find some characters in gold ambience. Um and if you see most of them have two things in common which are >> joint okay >> I mean it's it's always simple that um it doesn't even >> um and do you think that this is less impressive because it's gray?

>> No, it fits tonality, right? It fits the scene. you you cold is going to have less of this anyway. >> But it it doesn't even need to be cold, right? Because I don't know this one or >> it does feel kind of cold to be fair. Probably more more for the >> No, but you could have you could have you could have someone on a desert with a sand. The exact same feeling, right? >> For sure. Um, so there is obviously the the super vibrant blue gold which which I've done um not long ago actually the you know this one for example or or this one.

>> Yeah. >> Right. >> Oh shit. Um because it's true that in I mean in social media it's always uh if you want to catch attention it's it's always better to do it very poppy and very colorful. Uh so and for a box art it's always kind of necessary to to make something poppy. That's why I always rather go this route. But I do enjoy very very much um the saturation. Like I one of my favorite pieces of all time that I painted is actually this one which is uh a reproduction of an artwork by uh Louis Royo. And he always paints with browns and and grays basically. And the style is I love it.

>> It seems fucking hard to paint cuz you have it >> is much harder. >> Yeah. you you really have to understand basically everything because one fuck up on there seems I think would >> would show up a lot more than on on a more cartoony um >> yeah you you need to be nuanced by by int with intention instead of um just because you don't you cannot do more so >> do you want to open that up because if we want to talk about shadows if that is still what we're talking In my opinion, um, >> what was I saying?

>> Um, you were talking about the saturation and that you have pop and this is not, this one does not have pop like the other ones. >> You said that you still think that there's a lot of room for >> I was about to answer something that you said, but it doesn't matter. >> Jamie just said that this seems really hard to paint. Yeah. >> Uh, yes. It's actually I think it's uh the doing a desaturated paint job is very easy at the start because pushing paint to the limit is hard when you start knowing how paint works. Doing saturated stuff is kind of easy because it's very easy to put a couple of colors that are very poppy and it's super super I catchy from the start and then the the the extra level is doing something that it's eye catchy without the the vibrant colors because you need to work more in the nuance. You need to work more on the how many colors do you have without making it obvious uh things like that. So for example, in some of

these artworks, uh even if they are very desaturated, they have a lot of color. Like this one, it's the the yellow and purple are very very desaturated, but still work wonderfully. >> Look at that one. That's fucking cracking. The >> the middle one up and >> up one. this this just in terms of shadow play like it's it's so easy to create though but that's the contrast I guess I had in my mind right you've got the extremely bright >> in my mind shadows actually are much more about less about the shadow and what's around them right so obviously when we initially answered the question we were focusing on the shadow itself but it's actually everything around it that creates the illusion of shadow so >> yeah [clears throat] >> if you yeah if you if you just put your hand over like this this area where it's bright where those people you know that you've got the contrast behind them that no longer is that in shadow that piece that is just the piece, right? So, so yeah, >> actually that's a the the next point is that the for example, this one is a very

good example of this. The shadow is actually a relatively light gray, bluish gray, right? It's it's relatively light. It doesn't need to be very dark to be a shadow. Uh, and to to go back to to some to a real figure, um, for example, in this one, the shadows are are not dark. They are just saturated blue. So, you create that contrast by just changing saturation, but it doesn't need to be dark. It's that darkness itself, it's not it just needs to be darker or, you know, create contrast.

>> Yeah. Because even the the value could be the same, but the feeling that it portrays in your own mind makes it darker, right? Basically. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Which is a kind of a mind fuck because as I said, instinctively I'm I'm wanting to add black to my shadows, >> but the reality is it's nothing to do with I mean it is, don't get me wrong, but it it depends on what you're trying to portray and how you're portraying it, right? >> Yeah. One of the things that I get asked more in workshops is about shadows actually in in skin because we when we start painting we start also always from a very very dark shadow and we go up and then we we end up with a really high contrast very unnatural skin and and I always u tell people like look at look at people around you look at you know there's no shadows in in this in [clears throat] the people around you.

There's barely any difference between the lights on in here and in here, right? It's so It depends on the material. It depends on the light situation. If you don't have a um dramatic uh theater focus on on your head, you will not have dark shadows. It's Yeah, it's it's just this very concepts of dark shadows, contrast, saturation that are actually harmful in a way because they don't let you see the reality.

>> Yeah. It's it's goes back to the whole thing about um us hating um GW and Heavy Metal Martin. Um no, but you know this whole thing of we have this, by the way, that was a joke. Slightly based in truth, but but it's still a joke. We have this >> well we have this whole like um preconceived idea of what something should be >> and the way that we've learned it is all this shit like so my initial answer was add some black do some thing do some thing but then I realized cuz I remember having these conversations and thinking about it >> the a shadow isn't in the shadow it's in the it's in everything around it that makes something a shadow right >> but I'm I I'm still not able to take that and put it on a on a on a model >> right I conceptually understand the idea, but I haven't run the test. I haven't tried to paint shadows on complex pieces like these artworks that are just fucking amazing. You know what I mean? I've done it in which is my default the every metal style cuz I still it's still who I am. I can't get past that yet and I haven't let go of

this like Neo jumping off a bridge kind of vibe. Um >> but there is but there is some merit to it. I mean for one thing there has to be a difference in scale. If we look at a full scale one to one wax dummy, there's obviously not going to be a lot of painted on shadows. It will just be one color, >> but a teeny tiny miniature will need more shadows and more highlights to define the shapes. >> Yeah, it's usually more important in in 28 mil. >> You have to just do that test. We can paint everything in just one flat color and it won't look right. So something obviously there is some kind of merit to >> No, but the exaggerating, >> right? The difficulty is on the nuance because you need to be a lot more nuanced and nuances are very difficult >> because you need to paint something that it looks one color but it's not.

>> Yeah. Exactly. >> And and that's where the difficulty comes in because it's it's it's so much so much work. >> Yeah. >> But understanding it, right? Like like I could do a shadow on um a warlock on a thing and that would literally be me adding in some darks. But that's because he's on a base with with sand and there's nothing. There is no ambience, right? cuz I've decided not to give it ambience. But as soon as I yeah put him in a fire base in you know in a volcano or some shit or or some magic spell or then I have to start thinking about this nuance. And that's more what I mean about the emission and the eval style is cuz I I have done that for the last oh little bit of a warning because I've done that for the last 24 years. I've not had to experience trying to really create the nuance and the ambience cuz I've never needed it. Like like um what the fuck is his name? The cunt who won the sword with the ogre and the the w the multi-headed Chris Clayton.

>> Chris Clayton. >> Like he >> Yeah, exactly. Sorry. Yeah. His style is that and everything he's doing is there is not he doesn't need to paint in these shadows, right? Cuz that's the thing he's going for. So you're like, he doesn't need shadows cuz he doesn't want shadows. And I'm doing these 28 ms. I I don't need shadows cuz I don't want shadows. But now I'm getting to this point where I'm like, I want to create these interesting challenge myself and and because it's literally like I'm starting from scratch. from realizing I need to go into this painting and not think this is how you did this and this is but I've tried and it's still fucking impossible to just go right I'll I'll flick the switch off of the last 26 years of me painting you know I can't do it but I understand that the reason why I don't have these skills is because I've never tried to get them >> and then when you try you're like this is fucking annoying fuck this piece of shit making me feel like a little twat like I can't do anything [sighs] I do like painting Yes. Yes.

>> I don't I don't think that there is a a huge difference between how our now approaches a 28 mil and how you do it and how I do it. I don't think that there is a a massive difference in like which paints we choose. It's just I think what you're talking about is that default mode and it's hard to break out of that. But that doesn't mean doing something the opposite of what you've always been doing. It just comes with a little more intention and a little more doing things a little more more deliberately. >> I am not sure.

>> And and also I mean we've talked about this before. There's a reason why Games Workshop style is the default. It's because it's it's not easy to do well, but it's easy to do at all. >> Yeah. Yeah. To start off like my So my seven-year-old paints and she's painting in heavy metal style cuz it's it's clear and obvious what she's doing, right? And she's like she's trying to fill in a line. And she's trying to not go over the things. The sort, you know, the weapons are black, the thing's a thing, and >> blah blah blah. She's not, she's not, she's conceptually, she's not like, "Oh, I'll put some shadow here, and I'll put this fucking highlight here cuz >> there's a light here, and there's a bulb here." It just doesn't make sense. It's not how you naturally >> I guess that's why it's art, >> cuz it really is a deliberate conscious I want to recreate or or further what is basic or what. Anyway, fuck it. I don't know where I'm going with that. to go back to the thing of of our now does differently like his I think the biggest difference is his mindset when he goes to a 28 mil is different from my mindset he's already planning these things in his head he's already knowing that okay I want I want

to put this person in this scene with this thing right I'm not doing that when I I sit down and I'm like right let me fucking paint this guy to look good and crisp and now's few viewpoint is I'm bored of that because I'm fucking been painting 10 is how can I make this remotely interesting for myself? All right, blah blah blah blah blah. And even without a scenic base or whatever, I can still feel that this little 28 mil twat is in some thing. Whereas when I paint, I don't have that. >> I don't know. I This is >> Yeah.

>> Do I have any any more love things? >> Well, that was just the first one. We've got like 12 more, but we're I'm just sporadically spunking them into your faces as we go. >> Okay. Okay. >> Um, >> now is a good time to go into the divorce now. >> Okay. Do you want to do a break and talk about that? >> We Yeah, we we we the painting part is already accomplished. >> 25 minutes. Fucking hell. And we still got the meat of it. Oh shit. The meat of it. Yeah, the depressing meat of it. Right. So, >> it occurred to me right now. Tina didn't bring up. All right, let's get into it.

How to start, how to finish. All right, the ultimate thing is we we are separated now, okay, which you two obviously already know. >> And we [snorts] are officially um well, we're not divorced cuz it takes fucking ages to get an official divorce in the UK. Um you have to there's a 20we cooling off period, like full stop. So, even if you tell them you want to get divorced, um you still have to wait 20 weeks and then you have a 3 to six month

waiting time where they just won't process it. >> Okay. >> Because they don't want you to get >> a year basically. >> Basically a year. Yeah. It's like it's like official unofficial official unofficial official 7 months. So, yes, stuff could change, but I don't think they will. And [snorts] um like we did a lot of a lot of like good soulsearching conversations where it was like you know I let you down, you let me down. Um we should have done this, we should have done that and that's where we are and why we're there now. Like because effectively we just weren't there for each other in the right way that we needed to be. Um and last episode I had a different outlook on what the relationship was going to look and I was genuinely excited. I thought about it and I was and a part of me would have liked to have done that but really it was the wrong thing to do.

There were a couple of good comments in on YouTube and there was only like two and they were like >> it's it's annoying that every single comment was about this episode. >> I mean I get it but they were all like dude it's done like get over right and and and obviously they said it in in a really unhelpful tone but they were right. Um, but yeah, so the relationship is done and now her and I are on on a on a good ground to like just not hate each other and be parents, right? Which is what we need to be. Uh, and I think I was excited for that concept, but as a as a consequence like and and it's a roller coaster. It is a roller coaster, but the last two days have been consistent. I like I feel a lot happier in myself, right? I feel like and let's see, let's wait like genuinely week by week, episode by episode. But I think what you're seeing right now is a mix of like adrenaline, excitement, and um my natural self. So, I think I'm

going to I I'm going to plateau a bit. I think I'll come down. >> Yeah, totally. >> Right. But I'm right now because things were so bad for so long. Now I'm out. I'm like, "Holy shit." So yes, Martin, you said that when we go to Essen, it will it like it we've got like what four months, four and a half months. Like >> we will be winging. So we will >> This is what I'm worried about. I think I'll be the wingman with the I think I'll be dragging you guys across for myself because like as in >> I mean obviously the analogy doesn't work or the cuz wingman but I like >> you know what I'm like steering the ship. [laughter] Yeah.

>> Yeah. I'm I'm extremely talkative and I enjoy company but but what's happened to me is I I realized I stopped liking other people's company. Right. And that is a hard thing for me or or has always been a hard thing for me to I thought it was age or or something else or >> stop liking other people's company. When did this happen? >> Two years ago, three years. I didn't know. Right. I would actively avoid talking to people. >> That was him avoiding to talking to people. >> Damn. >> Like really I I >> Yeah. Yeah. Didn't notice. Did not notice. Well, that shows how how much I haven't been myself in in that in that that I knew and this goes all all the way to confidence, right? And and like I realized confidence is if you're confident, you're basically happy. Now, I've still got the mindset everything works out, right? And I' like and I've tried to work out and I haven't even broached it. So, I've got a psychiatrist now or a psychologist or I don't know what the fuck they're called. I sit down with the guy, right? and he tells me I tell him shit and he's like fuck that's amaz Oh right wait let me like go back to like professionalism and I've only

done one session with him or two one with Tina and then by myself but um like so I had so I still have the concept of everything will work out and that was there but oh so I think I've been in some form of depression right is what I think now I don't know enough about depression except for my wife had it 12 years so I know about her depression but I don't know what depressions can look like. But because my attitude is is is is like positive, I still felt lots of happiness, but I'd also feel loneliness, right, and sadness. Like I'd listen to music, I'd reminisce about old times. I'd be really nostalgic. [snorts] And I don't know if that's depression, but the fact that I feel like I'm now I'm not there yet, but I feel like I'm more myself, you know?

I'm more I'm I I recognize myself more now from this breakup than I did a year ago, 2 years ago, 3 years ago. And that is extremely uplifting and in a weird gay way like empowering and a and a and to have have to to suddenly see where I was at from the outside is a really weird feeling, right? It's like, okay, how can I how could I have been there and convinced myself I was happy? Even though I knew I wasn't happy because I was talking to Tina every bloody two weeks about how I'm not happy. But but the dayto-day I realized it wasn't happiness. It was existing. So I was just I was just floating through doing this stuff because I want the relationship, I want to be married, I want to be a husband, etc. But I wasn't doing anything for myself, right? And talking to people has always been something I do for myself. I love it. I fucking love it, right? But I I started hating it. I'd actively avoid talking to people, you know, and I'm talking strangers or people. It would got to the

point where I was like, fuck, everything is just mundane and like I don't I don't care about this person, right? >> So, I don't want to talk to them. rather than I want to have some connection with someone and relate to them, get on with them and and leave them feeling better than when I like I come in and leave them feeling energized. And then >> I actually have a counterargument. I think that's a sacrifice in a way. I I know what you're going to tell me. I'm know you're going to tell me about dopamine.

>> I >> You mean me talking to people is a doping. Okay. I wasn't actually, but yeah, maybe >> at some point at some point you will. But uh I think it's kind of a sacrifice and I think not talking to people is actually not a sacrifice. And >> hold on. >> So I actually think that because and maybe it's because I I know you a little bit. I I know that >> a little bit. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Go on. [laughter] the the the effort to talk to other people was something that you could not do. So >> actually it was a self-p protection uh mechanism because that was not so you spend energy >> you spend energy talking to people and and making them feel happy because that's that's what you do. But when you do not have enough to give, then you don't and then you you go back to not doing it, you know. But but I don't think I don't think it's a I don't think I think it's pretty

natural [snorts] >> to go into your shell >> to Yes. Yes. to to to save energy, right? It's like >> Well, there's um there's a lot of logic in that my conversations with people is approval, right? So obviously I seek for people's approval. I don't give a shit about what they think of me like in terms of I fart, I make inappropriate jokes, but they're all in my wheelhouse, right? That I'm in control of that. So it's like I can I if they don't approve of that, that's fine cuz that's something I like a core value, right? Like I I believe in swearing and all this kind of shit. Um but yeah, making someone happy or happier and enjoying their company, finding out about them, experiencing, learning, I guess it's a form of approval >> because I, you know, I create a connection and they're not rejecting me effectively.

>> I don't understand fully why that's been my way my whole life. I mean, that's probably something to psychological work out why. So my point is that maybe actually it was an improvement in a way. >> No, cuz I was miserable. >> I fucking hate it. Like I I my my most favorite times like Pokémon Girl Laura having that connection with her was lovely. I you could see that she was enjoyed our time and I enjoyed spending time with her, right? It was a it was um uh I don't know what the word is but where you both benefit, right? and mutual >> I'm I'm I'm doing a therapist work which I'm not qualified to do >> but um but did you need that though for I mean are you perpetuating that validation what what is what you're saying like I I argue that maybe not needing those connections is actually the healthy thing in in a way I mean I'm not saying that not having connections is healthy obviously not what I'm saying

is that is that um I don't think it's that unhealthy to to not feel the need of that validation through dopamine or to >> connections or [snorts] well it's it's I don't know if this is introvert versus extrovert or ambivert or whatever the fuck I am right versus you how you are but it's I don't I I'm not sure it's validation I logically it makes sense that there's some validation in there right just looking at I could be like that's validation but what it is is imagine um I don't have an analogy yet lined up here but you [snorts] have this like ball of electricity inside you okay and when you're at home uh depending like me for listening to music that recharges but it doesn't get excited right it doesn't start feeling I can touch it okay but I know it's there and I have this quiet confidence that I'm always happy I've got this ball inside me and then when I start thinking about like I can go to the pub. I feel that ball starting to like statically charge.

It starts getting more electric and it's and then I go to the pub and then I sit down and I see people that look interesting and I'm sitting next to them by myself cuz I you know like there's no I have to watch football whatever I can feel that ball starts to get so excited and big that it has to come out. And that's that's what it feels like. So when I talk to these people, it's because I have this drive, this like yearning desire to to make a joke, to make a connection, to ask them would you rather to that cuz they look fucking bored and you're like right. So >> that's why why >> it's [snorts] just a feeling. I just want to be there. I want to be and experience that with them and I want to not have this mundane view or or always looking at stuff the same way or >> but now is asking what do you get out of it that you can >> ball that ball of excitement can go there's nowhere else I can't get it from anywhere else. So then that ball then explodes and I feel happy. I feel like right this this energy that I had has

now dissipated >> and I feel excited about it. I like I physically am I can feel the excitement in my body when I finish the conversation. When I'm in the conversation, it's like I'll be like not shaking, but I it's it's like nerves, but it's not nerves. It just feels nice, >> right? >> Yeah. We I'm sure we've all experienced this. Yeah. >> And and I I I've always had that for conversations, but that's part of who I am, right? So, >> for my whole life, I've had this this I want to talk to people and I I need to talk to them. And then now all of a sudden for the last three four years that has slowly been dwindling and that's how I identify like it's part of it's a core part of who I am. And now when that was ripped out of me I felt lonely. I felt like I had connections. I had you you know my my friends like my mom blah blah blah. I had the connections but that still isn't enough.

I still need this other side. And I don't get that from you guys. Do you get what I mean? That ball of excitement isn't there because I know you. >> Yeah. Of course. So when I lose that, I realized I just lost part of like a huge part of myself and exciting in thrilling like like you say, okay, dopamine in fairness and I hadn't thought about it, but yeah. So I mean there was a whole point to this about where I was going to go with painting and stuff. We got a little bit deeper, but I mean I'm I enjoy it. So I disagree with the concept that um it's healthy not to talk to people for me.

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, that was not the point really. The the point was not needing it, not not doing it. So, uh I still think that needing it is some sort of validation because what you extract from them is that that feeling of of selfworth, right? Of of making them feel happy. But you are making them feel happy. So you are the one who is >> well it's like you think of this scenario. Okay. Um someone walks into a restaurant and you're standing there for some fucking reason and they go, "Oh, sorry. Could you hold my coat for me for a second just while I do my shoelaces?" You hold their coat and you give it back to them.

You feel more happy for helping them than they do. Right. You feel some connection and warmth and gratitude that

you were able to help this person. >> Exactly. >> Right. Yeah. >> And that to me is where this must be coming from cuz I I feel like I'm giving them something that they didn't have. Obviously like on the paper that's the most obnoxious cunty thing in the world thinking that you can go in and >> but yeah I >> I understand it because I am exactly the same in a different way. >> I totally understand that too. >> I'm I'm very um yeah I I want to make people happy and I do everything I can to make people happy even if it comes at a cost. But the thing is if you only if you can only um be happy with this well it's my point.

>> Yeah. No >> you cannot be happy by yourself. >> That is my point. >> What it is is this was taken away from me this option. >> I'm really happy to sit at home for two weeks listening to music talking and I don't have that bubble. I don't have that need. Right. But that was I literally it was ripped out of me. >> So it was forced upon me that I can't have this. And right now because I'm chasing I'm lon like lonely from you know I've just broken up with the person I was with for 15 years.

I'm clearly um trying to grasp that more. I'm I'm hungry for that more than I would be in a healthy relationship or not in a relationship. Right. It makes sense. I'm I am trying to it's a basically a coping mechanism for me right now. I need those connections cuz I need validation. I need to be wanted and I've been rejected for so long, you know, with the lack of sex and um all the other shit that that blah blah blah, right? Like so I understand why I'm doing it, but I also realize that I'm also catching up for for like the shit that was gone for so long. Now, the thing that I was going to bring it into like and it is interesting and I'm I like like I said like going to a psychiatrist is one of the like to be able to talk to your about yourself and someone listens for an hour. It it that's blow like I feel like I would want to just do this anyway. Like fuck the insights you get on your own psyche from an objective point of view is mindboning.

Like he's like why' you do that? And I'm like shit what do you mean why did I do that? He's like, "Well, just tell me in your own words why you would do that." And I'm like, "Oh, fuck." Like, I have to go into myself now and work out why I would do something. Like, I've never questioned this and and and other questions like, "What? Why would why would this person's mom what do you think of this?" And why would like psychoanalyze her quickly? It's making me ask questions I've never even conceptually thought. Obviously, I've come up with some opinion in my head already because you do for everything, but not in such a out loud and he's just there to support you. He's like, "Dude, you got this." Do you know what I mean? You're all right. And then high five. Not really. It's highly unprofessional, but um so >> with the cat with this cataclysmic change that's happened, right, >> I've realized that I need change in my life because naturally, right, you life's too short. I don't need to do this. and and and that's what's happened. So, I've lost my inhibitions when I'm talking to people. Normally, I'm not going to interrupt these people.

I'll let them live their life. And I'll be like, I'd like to talk to them, but I don't have to. I don't want to force it. But right now, I'm forcing it. I'm like, "God, they're on their phones. They're on a date, but they're both on their phone." So, I'm getting involved. You guys are fucking embarrassing me. Um, and I'm there trying to watch football anyway. [snorts] So, so it's instantly highlighted things that are important in my life. Okay. Now, interestingly, all it is is stop being fat and get healthy so I don't die like at 60.

Embrace things that you want to do, which is talk to people, make my flat now that I've moved better. But what's really interesting is Warhammer, the map I was creating and all the coding I was doing has died. I don't want to do that at all. Now, and this is where the meat of it question came up, right? Um, Warhammer hasn't even come into my brain to paint, but no hobby has come into my brain yet at all. I sat down and I tried to play computer games bored fuckless. I don't want to do them. I've got too much in my like too much energy, too much this like. So, so [clears throat] I hope that Warhammer comes in and painting comes in. I don't understand its role yet. And and it's possible that I just like if I don't want to do it now in the next three, four months, it's realistically it's like do I ever want to do it? Do you know what I mean? Like if I don't want to do it now, when I want to change my life to do things that I've always wanted to do, when am I going to want to do it? Um, and then the meat of it was

like, so we know some people who have been in divorces recently as well, and a complaint that their wives had when they were still their wives was, "You spend too much time playing Warhammer." Now, Tina said, "Um, and fucking Warhammer, like you were in there and you'd be painting Warhammer and blah blah blah, right? And you'd go on your holiday trips. Why didn't we ever go on holiday trip together?" Now, it's basically what is first, the chicken or the egg. Now, I don't know if anybody listening has got relationship issues going on and whatnot, right? And they might have a super healthy relationship with their partner and and they can paint and they support them, right? But from my perspective, the two people I know, myself and one other who who's divorced, I don't know. I've not spoken to him about it, but I'm questioning and Warhammer wasn't that bad, right? Like the other addiction I had was a lot worse than Warhammer, >> but it showed I don't know if I went to Warhammer because I was so miserable that I needed somewhere to put my attention and and

get back some love, some validation, some you know, we go to Monty, we go to Essen, no one's complaining. Everyone's happy as fuck and we're just all doing stuff, right? It's a happy place. It's a It's a safe place. Whereas at home, I don't have that. It was It was not that way, right? So, did I did I retreat into Warhammer or did Warhammer cause some friction and some alienation between >> I think there's more options. >> Go on. Um, probably Warhammer is just something that that you wanted to do and explore and you like it because I I do think that nostalgia I always said that to you that no the absolute need for nostalgia means something and it means that you are wanting something that's not there.

>> Yeah. From a time that I remember being happy as well. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I I do not think that Warhammer cost anything because if if you if you if you can um do other stuff then the trips matter nothing. It it was not like one a month. It was >> like two Oh, >> yeah. >> No, no, no. I was going one a month. >> Uh yeah. Do you mean the playing, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing to do painting there like fine. I mean >> Yeah. But it's more than the not the not engaging with your partner. Yes.

[clears throat] >> Yeah. That's more what it is. Like is is Warhammer a treat when you are having troubles and then it pushes it makes that gap further. Right. Because oh it's it's horrible here. She's grumpy me and I don't understand why and I've tried to change it. I can't. Okay. Warhammer is consistent. You know there's no kickback on Warhammer. I can sit at my desk for 3 hours and paint and listen to music and I'm I switch off from it, right? Or I'm I've I'm hyperfocused on Warhammer and I'm painting the shit out of it and that means I accidentally don't talk to her.

Like I mean in my case, I don't think it contributed to the divorce or anything, but I sorry that's not right. I don't think it was the cause of it. I think it contributed to it, but there was so many other things that you couldn't ever point it at this. But I'm still interested and like I want to know other people's opinions on it in in that like if they paint and they are are they running away and it's their safe haven like the same way any hobby would be. >> I think it can be in in bad moments but it also can be a way of lifting you up. >> I think even something that >> if it's something that you're doing to avoid um dealing with your relationship then the problem isn't that you're doing it. the problem is that you're avoiding dealing with your relationship.

>> It's just it might be a symptom of the problem, but it it won't be the problem. >> Yeah. I don't think it's >> for you and for anyone. It will just it will be a lack of communication. And I think for for anyone >> I'm sure there's um I say this a lot with guys who are like, well, you know, better not tell the misses I got warmer again. Like I I hope >> you're it's a terrible joke. Fuck off. But I really hope you're joking. If that's your actual relationship with your spouse is that you have to hide things you buy from her. Like >> what the fuck? Like you is is is it a problem that you have a hobby and are you actually doing things you're you haven't agreed that you should do? I don't understand that. I >> Yeah. Yeah. It's just a form of lying, right?

>> Effectively. >> Yeah. >> It's a white lie. Maybe like it's not as bad as you know. >> Yeah. But it's not the it's not the lie, but why could you share it? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Exactly. Like why wouldn't you share that? So, and I think cuz having a hobby, anyone having a hobby should be good if it's probably it it's probably good for you to have it, which means it should be good for for uh your spouse should understand that it's good for you and it's it should be healthy. If you're spending way too much time doing it and you're not helping out with, >> I mean, chores around the house and raising your children, then again, like Warhammer isn't really the problem. you are. Um, so, right.

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's the quickest meat of it we've ever done then. [laughter] >> Like I I kind of knew the answer already. But it I think that for it to be an issue [snorts] first. The wife or the partner would know, right, that you already paint Warhammer and you spend 4 hours or 3 hours in the evening or >> Yeah. >> It could be an issue if it's your >> but it's it's a symptom rather than a cause. No, no, but it could be the cause if if the if it's the priorities, right? If it's more it has more priority than than than her or than yourself even >> one day I'll hopefully have that problem again where she'll be like and I look I'm trying to win golden demon and then she leaves me. Ah shit. it. I

mean that this is the interesting part though of being um you know we met she was 19, I was 25. There were no dating apps or anything. The concept of dating again is is a really weird alien thought. You know, you've you've you've you've braced yourself. You never thought you'd be back in this world and then someone's like, "Yeah, you're back in that world, mate." And now I'm like, "Oh shit, I think I'm going to try and avoid the dating apps." Um my Yeah. The thing is with a face like this, I feel like I shouldn't be on the dating app. [laughter] >> You You talk to literally every single waitress or people who like literally that's something that I always thought why and [snorts] so good.

>> It doesn't matter the answer, but I actually think it's very beneficial from you in this point. >> You're going to be awesome. That's what I was saying about going to Essen together. Like I don't even see why we need to stay at Chiel. I'm just really looking forward to going to Germany with you guys. >> Well, it's going to be great. >> The thing is, I've always had the safety and confidence to know that I can talk to these people without them ever thinking I'm hitting on them, right? And like like Laura, Pokémon girl, >> I was never worried that she thought I was trying to fuck her, right? Cuz I'm a I'm way older. I think it's it's inappropriate for me. She was what, 24?

I'm 40. Like it's not there's not that's not my target market. But I was always confident knowing she's not going to think this is something weird. It's a friendship, right? And now the narrative changes a bit because I'm not wearing a ring. And the way I talk to people is very perceived as flirting, right? And it is cuz I am, but it's not the same narrative of I'm flirting to have sex with you. It's I'm flirting because I want to feel >> that sort of connection. Very similar. But I I flirt with dudes, right? It's like it's not it's not not restricted to just vaginas and t >> I do understand what you mean cuz you're charming. You're naturally charming and that you you don't want to turn that off cuz that would be weird >> and you enjoy No, but it's literally a case of like >> I I see I see what's happening cuz you're like you enjoy how people respond to it.

>> And but so now >> so why wouldn't you keep being that person? Like what is actually wrong with it? You're like, "Oh, this person seems to enjoy my personality. I'll >> I'll keep being this [clears throat] way." I had it with the and I don't want to be that guy but I had it with these chicks I was talking to in the pub. There were three girls and I was again I was by myself and started talking to them and then I was like we spoke for like three hours and >> just just the fact that you started talking with three chicks in a bub. It's like a superhero move like I >> It's insane that it's insane that you said that and then three minutes ago you were like I think I'm going to avoid the apps. Yeah, I agree. I think you >> you don't fucking need apps. The fuck do you need any apps for? You are an app.

>> Yeah. Well, the reason why the apps >> Okay. So, you spoke to the to the three women in the >> probably like three hours I was talking to them. Yeah. Something like that. And then and then in the end, one of them hugged me for too long. And I was like, "Oh, fuck." I was like, "No, I don't like don't don't I don't want you to think like, don't get me wrong, I would, but I'm not I'm not I'm not there yet. I can't just do you know what I mean?" And I She was like, "Bye." And I was like, "Yeah, see you later." And she was like, "Ah, are you are you leaving now?" I was like, "Yeah, I can leave now." I was like, "But but there was no there was no chance of I can't give her anything that she wants is what I'm saying, right? Do you know what I mean?" Like, >> yeah, but then and but I need a sticker that says I'm not trying to fuck you, >> right? And then the moment I am trying to fuck them, I just go, >> you need to wear that at spiel. That's going to be wonderful.

We will make you >> when you guys are playing Pokemon, you'll have a sticker that says, "I'm not trying to fuck you." >> Well, it's also very presumptuous. >> We might all need one of those. Should we do a Mini Matters t-shirt that says Mini Matters, I'm not trying to fuck you. >> And just >> it it's also presumptuous, right? Because I'll talk to loads of people and they won't all think I'm trying to fuck them or they might think it and they don't want to, right? It just happened that this one person out of the last six people that I've chatted to since I've got divorced, well, not divorced, but whatever, >> you know, has been like, "Oh, okay. This guy wants to have sex with me." Um, so yeah, it is a little bit presumptuous to think that everybody I'm talking to in a bar or a bar mate.

>> Yeah. But it's a bit more complex than that, isn't it? like you you you start I think you are you are going to the end very quickly and it's like just just uh well I'm enjoying connection right uh >> who knows who knows >> well I I I am in no way ready to date >> like at all >> of course no yeah yeah for the record um like when I see her I told you I'm still like fuck I love this person a shitload and I I I I I need to I'm just avoiding her cuz I you know I need like so right now I am very very happy with the situation. Now happy is relative but I am happy with the situation because I can see what will come out of it in one or two years.

You know I will be a lot happier than I've been for the last 10 years and a lot happier than I think I would be if we stayed together. [snorts] [clears throat] But that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. And this goes back to the whole question of everything will work out all now. I'm I am literally living now the thing that you said you still would have to go through. >> Yes. But but you know I agree with your point >> but but I I am like Yeah. So am I going to paint? Not yet.

And I'm not going to I'm not going to think about it. You know, I asked a few a few weeks, [laughter] months, years ago, what would happen if you let go? Because I don't think I I actually don't think you ever let go even when you have not painted. I don't think you've let go because you didn't have to because you you know >> and I think actually you may you may have >> admit to yourself you don't want to paint. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Just be like no >> admit you know admit that you don't want to paint.

>> Believe it though. >> Yeah. >> So you think or now you think that that's the case? Jamie actually does not want to paint. >> Yeah. He likes it. >> I am I am dead sure. But but it's good. I I actually think that when you realize and you accept it, maybe in a few months or I don't know years, maybe >> you would say, "Okay, I could paint." >> I'm now accepting that we're going to I'm separated, right? >> And it took me 14 days or however long it's been. And only after this session with this bloke did I suddenly realize we are separated because it's what she's wanted, right? She's wanted it from the start >> and I've not been willing to accept it.

But now that I'm accepting it and embracing it, it hurts a billion times less. Still hurts. Like I say, I go and see her and I'm like, "Fuck, you are beautiful and I love you and I want to be with you." But I know that that's is, you know, there was there was this weird false hope. And now I know that we don't have that. Avoid contact. It's hard when you've got kids, but avoid as much contact or minimal contact and just realize that this is this is what you want long term. >> And um yeah, and the painting ties into that cuz now I'm it's it's it's literally like a >> these things.

>> No, it's not. I I don't I don't think I've got one. I feel very bad with analogy, but it's it's literally like I'm now saying, "Okay, this this old like this is gone. All this shit that was before, it's just gone, right? It's it's it was painful. It was dark. Blah blah blah." But it's it's in the past. I'm moving on from that. And painting, weirdly, is is kind of in that window, right? >> That's that's not that's not weird at all. I I can I can really understand where you're at, where your mindset is right now with every single part of your life. Mhm.

>> 2 weeks ago or a month ago or 3 months ago. It's it it might seem weird to you that like you've left the relationship behind. You've got this new like physical environment around you every day. You're you're living a new life >> and why would you not be interested in gaming or the TTS or painting. But like that's because all of that is part of your old life. But you'll you'll introduce all of that again >> is the thing. Your your old life as it were is not coming back. But you'll have a new one and it will have many of the same components. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. It's like you you stripped of your all your clothes and now you are just running naked around.

>> Yeah. >> Good. >> I could see you I could see you doing that. And >> I have seen you do that. >> Yeah. Me too. >> Feels good. >> So and and Yeah. And and you are you are the the core Jamie. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm with you when you build it up. Yeah. Some some things will come and some things won't. >> Exactly. And the new and and what and it's nice to hear that you're excited. I am also very excited. New Jamie isn't going to be all new Jamie because that would be your classic stupid midlife crisis where you're like, >> you know, get a toupe and a car and a car. Yeah. All that >> prostitutes probably.

>> Well, that might still happen, but like the the true No, but like New Jamie might still do TTS and all of the other things. >> Yeah. >> And then or now unfortunately might have a point about painting and this might be your your turning point where you're just >> you you realize you're not a painter. >> The whole thing is I'm not I'm not going to >> I'm not going to force it. >> I'm just I'm just going to leave it and and if I paint and Yeah. Yeah. Well, I because I've been doing I forced everything for the last do you know what I mean? There's been my passions, but they've been a passion because of I've got this void at home.

>> You can you can now be an enjoyer, not a painter. >> Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, I um I did something else and I can't remember what it was, but it was cool. And I was like, "Oh shit, that was for myself." And that felt weird, >> you know? I can't remember the last time I I consciously was like, "Right, that's for me." maybe a wink, >> but like otherwise like everything else, you know, like >> yeah, it's just as you say, it's a big >> very exciting change. >> It'sve it's it's it's [clears throat] two weeks of pure hell, by the way, to get to this point.

>> Um, but the whole time I was in there, I was still grateful to feel something. >> That lasted about 5 days and then it went away. But it also goes back to the whole thing when I said I'm looking forward to being sad and I fucking was. And I realize now it's because I had nothing. I wanted to feel something. And the the happiness I felt is still real. But it was only one extreme. I was only feeling happiness and then gray. There was nothing. There was no And I feel like you should feel the whole range of emotions when you're healthy. >> Yeah.

>> Somehow um

>> people do. >> Right. Thought of the day. 1 127 >> six. >> Uh, we might have done this. >> If it's not 67, but all right. If you got stabbed in the chest by something extremely sharp, Wolverine's claws for example. Okay. >> I don't think we've done that. >> Okay. Like wouldn't you just instantly just your lungs would be full of blood and you would instantly choke to death and cough up immense amounts of blood.

>> Yeah, pretty much. >> Just you don't see that in films. >> Yeah, you do. >> I mean films are >> not enough. >> Yeah, I mean in films people's heads explode with a 9 miller and they die when they get shot in the chest. And they they >> one thing that they often one one thing that they often mention in films which I think is true is like if someone sticks a knife in your heart and you leave it there then then that's you know you only it only >> yeah you're fucked when you >> kill you when you pull it out. >> Yeah, >> that sounds about right. I'm sure that's true with Wolverine's claws through your lungs as well.

>> But well for sure though if you cut yourself through a vein and you leave the knife in there you won't bleed out the same way. Obviously you're going to have hemorrhaging inside but Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> But but yeah, like cuz I was just thinking if you fucking punch in my lung with a knife and it's a lot of knives. This is the whole thing will fill of blood cuz I'm bleeding everywhere. And then I'm going to be like and that's it. I'm just I wouldn't be able to talk cuz I can't I can't esphyxiate. I can't >> very unlikely that you would be able to talk. Yeah.

>> I mean you you'd have a few minutes, right? It wouldn't be like instant. >> No, you'd drown though. the oxygen. You wouldn't oxygenate your blood. I reckon you'd pass out in in what, like 20 seconds >> is my guess. >> Cuz you're not able to take in air and then >> noises and shit. >> Yeah. >> If you're a doctor, let us know. That would be great. >> Yeah. Or if you've been stabbed in the lungs. >> Or if you stabbed in the >> No, but this Well, okay, fine. Yes. For our six listeners, I highly doubt one of them I mean, we already know none of them are doctors. All right. Please don't stab anyone in the lungs to find out. By the way, only if this has happened to you do we want to have personal experience.

>> Now I This is cuz we're filling dead space here now. Music what I'm listening to has been an interesting journey. Now I I normally fill up my um repertoire with new albums, right? But I realized I've only had three new albums that I've listened to since 2024. >> That is barren. That is fucking disgraceful. Um, >> but anyway, mostly I've been listening to Interstellar soundtrack. >> It's pretty good. >> It's fucking amazing.

>> If you like the Interstellar soundtrack, what do you not are you not tempted to listen to similar soundtracks by similar artists? >> I do. There's a few I do enjoy. Yes. >> Okay. >> I do partake. Um, >> yeah. I also um listened to a lot of

other music that I've totally forgotten, so no point in really talking about it. [laughter] Um right, Mr. Nicholas M, any tips for trying to blend high value colors or trying to smoothly glaze really bright colors? It's one for Albert. >> Basically, Albert probably is the undisputed champion of that in the world. cuz he's blending. I mean, the concept that you can blend with a thousand brush strokes a high value, not value, but like a punchy color is fucking ridiculous.

Cuz I think the amount of you are literally building the pigment on the model. >> Like >> micro glazing, I guess. >> Stippling. >> Yeah. >> Or finding the color in between and putting it there as well. >> Yeah. pushing the pigment like in one direction >> starting with a really really bright base coat and then only using slightly darker colors over it >> if it's not something too complex could be wet blending wet blending as well blending yeah >> high value colors or trying to smooth you guys really bright colors I like the way he flipped between the two Nick I hope I mean I know maybe you still listen >> mostly He's in the Discord.

>> Is Nick? >> Yeah. >> Well, obviously I know he's from Discord cuz the question's from Discord, but >> No, I know, but I mean, he's been commenting. >> He's active, is he? Hold on. I, you know, I don't know anybody's names. I just do on the icon of the >> Right. Nick. Nick. Nick. Nick. Nick is not online, you piece of shit. We go to offline. Hold on. This is good for on air, though. This is really good. Good. Good quality uh podcast to be with. Yeah. Nick. Nick. Nick. Nick Nick. Oh, Nick M. Okay. All right. Fine. He is here. Um, how the fuck do you paint something as unwieldly as one of those big Carl ruddy dragons from Ling Msure?

Basically, how do you paint a giant piece a big like how can you approach painting a dragon >> references? Yeah. >> Yes. the same as anything and more vision I [laughter] guess >> have a clear idea before what you're trying to achieve. >> Yeah, that applies to everything. Yeah. Um >> not be to be fair, I think it's even more important in big things to not be a pussy and and do big >> go for it. >> Yeah. Nothing there, Martin. Thanks, mate.

[laughter] Um have you ever painted a big dragon? I've not painted any big dragons. The only dragonlike thing I've painted would be >> Angron is a bit dragonlike. I painted a big like uh like crocodile rat dog beast for the cruel boys which uh didn't turn out very well. But, uh, I the only thing I've thought about with some of those big things when they've got, um, and this is kind of like if you're if you're trying to do every metal style, regardless of the box art, what it looks like is like if it has a lot of sculpted texture, you don't always have to add add like tons of edge highlights to it. If it's like a croxyore or or a skink or something, fine. You can edge highlight every scale. But when it's a dragon, that's going to look ridiculous. even like even aside from the amount of time you're going to spend on it.

>> Um so that's I guess maybe worth having a think about how much of the detail you want to be um anal about. >> Analy something I'll never have again. Um yeah, inappropriate and relevant. So I thought that was a good joke. Um >> that's great. >> Thanks. Al could just go homosexual. I did actually entertain going gay for a second after realizing I'm free. like I can do anything I want and I was like let me just see >> if I could be gay and then yeah I can it was annoying like I the opportunity was there I just didn't want it >> you know >> that's fair >> but I did try to be gay >> I just couldn't lie to myself it's annoying though because I as I said I would love to be by would be by would be amazing Yeah, >> you can't really claim to be by if you actually don't want to have sex with men at all. Ever.

>> No, that's what I'm saying. But think how fucking cool it would be to be by and you could find this wife and she's like, "Yeah, dude. Suck as much dick as

you want, but as long as you come home to me, right?" And then >> Essen would take on a whole new meaning. Like, >> oh god. Especially like the dating scene if you want to have a year or two where you just uh >> Yeah, just play the field. Well, the issue is from all the gay guys I know, they they and obviously it's like they have the exact same problems that we have. We being straight people, right, in relationships, there's no difference. >> But it's just the it's just the the ability to get sex really really really really really really easily. >> I've heard Grinder is is ridiculous.

>> I don't even think you need it. Like whenever I go out with my gay mates without fail, >> they'll they'll toss off a guy or they'll get sucked off in a toilet or something like it's it's it's it's ravenous and I'm like please stop telling me like I'm just jealous. It's just annoying. >> Yeah. >> Like here I am especially before in my miserable >> Yeah. But again they have they have the same Yeah. Anyway, it doesn't solve all the problems is what I've learned as much as I think it would. So, um, where were we? Tomatoes and ketchup. Nick M is back. So, this must be a week after his first question. Jamie, [snorts] what are some of the pros and cons of being surrounded by many professional award-winning people?

Now, Nick, I'm glad you asked this. The most annoying thing, and this is a huge con, is the obnoxicity. They are so obnoxious, Nick. They lord their awards all the time. Like Martin will just send me a photo of like three demons and he's just taken a shit and I'll be like, "Martin is double as bad." Like our now he'll just walk around. He see you see that guy over there. He'll go, "Yeah, I taught him." He's shit though, mate. Albert, he's the worst. Fucking hell. Ah, I can't even think of another insult for Albert. [laughter] Also, he's not here and it's just insulting. Um, the cons. I hadn't even thought about a con.

I don't think there are any cons um to it. Like inadequacy, possibly if you if you were that way inclined, maybe you would feel like a shit painter. But again, that only comes from if you set these bullshit things to yourself where you think, um, I have to do this and I have to get there. You know what I mean? So, and I had that where I wanted to learn how to do this and I wanted to learn N&M and >> but but but having people that I could ask wasn't an issue. I just never asked them.

>> Lack of lack of um relatability or or relability. It's like >> really like I don't think you guys have ever done and then no conversation I've ever had with any of you have I gone >> this is over my head. Like there's been times where I've said an opinion, you guys disagree, and I'm like, >> well, I mean, I know I'm right, >> but on paper, they're definitely more knowledgeable than me about this subject, right? And then I've gone, all right, so I just need to like reconfigure my or understand, right? Ask questions and be like, well, why the fuck are you saying that when clearly this is why? But it's never been a case of um like if I did no painting then okay we'd have an issue because but our frame of reference we just you guys would do what you do you talk in fucking Spanish and I don't understand you right it'd be the same for a long time Martin when Albert and I like when we used to first started to hang they would just bust out Spanish and I'd be like guys I can't fucking understand you

>> every single fucking time. >> Yeah. And you'd be like oh yeah sorry sorry 40 seconds later back to Spanish. I'll be like, "Right, I I'm going to stop." Literally, I was like, "I'm going to stop hanging around with you because you're talking so much fucking Spanish." Um, and and now they still every now and then they'll revert to >> It's not so fucking much. >> No, every now and then I said, >> "Yeah, still back then it was not that much." >> Oh god, it is the problem. They didn't know they were doing around with you. I feel like I I very rarely hear Albert speak Spanish at all. Like he's So >> it's Catalan obviously. But >> no, I'm saying Catalan for sake. Fuck.

piece of English shit, huh? >> Uh, apparently is another language, right? So, the pros, I've learned a lot without learning anything. That's a big pro, right? My my painting knowledge is far far superior than your average painter probably. Oh, well, that's a con. So, I know a lot of stuff, but that's a curse cuz I can't implement any of it, >> right? I have no talent cuz I haven't learned this myself. I've not sat down and learned this thing. I just know these principles and I know these concepts and I it's solidified in my mind over six years of not painting. uh want to try. That's it's an interest it's an interesting point actually when you hang around the the conversations that we might have but but maybe maybe even more so when you go to these classes with like Alonso and you listen to our now do his thing and everything like I guess for me certainly with some people when I hear discussions I'm like h I'm not really good at this >> you know like it's sort of >> um and even more so like other people

I'm like fuck yeah this guy doesn't know anything. But it's Yeah, that that I suppose could be a potentially a con if you haven't actually painted a lot of miniatures, Jamie, which you haven't. Like in the last few years, you've been around people talking about painting occasionally. >> Realistically, I think I've probably painted 50 models in my whole life, right? >> Yeah. >> Like is not that many models. And and that is there in lies the problem of why I have no talent because I'm not painting, right? And I I would spend a year or okay this is extreme but 3 months on a model painting you know some elf or golden demon rather than when rather than actually painting and thinking and challenging and so but that that that's half you know glass cup shit in your mouth drink it and it's disgusting thing you know the saying because it's also a massive pro I have a lot more knowledge than I did before.

>> It's a con. Yeah. No, but just just just to yeah, just to to put a nuance to why that is obviously a pro. Cuz you're right, it's nice to know things, but it might also be that that thing of like if you don't actually ever use it for anything, it might just turn what could be a very fun, relaxing, creative hobby into something really intimidating because you start to associate it with art and art theory and professionals. >> And that's your your whole Yeah. And now your frame of reference is >> people like Arnell and Albert >> like I can answer I would say comfortably now 65% of questions are now would get I think I could answer right and then then obviously at the expert level the nuance stuff yeah no because I don't have the experience [clears throat] of it um so maybe the percentage is a little bit higher if you consider the last 20% actually 100% because that's the stuff anyway um and I can I can look at models now so much more objectively and see like just massive problems and shit. Yeah, it's basically exactly what you're saying

because now I sit down and I'm like, hang on, [snorts] I know this is fucking shit, but I can't rectify. And but the but the reality is if I spent enough time doing it, I would be able to rectify it because then I really would be >> analyzing, sitting down, looking, which is analyzing, and and and asking the same questions that I would uh another piece. So, but because I'm not putting that time in, I sit down, I paint for 2 hours, and then I'm like, "Oh, well, this is shit." So, >> really, I'd say it's a it's a plus. Um, but it is interesting. Uh, and and also different different the more artists I hang around, they all have their own style, right? Like even you three, Albert, you are now, you all have literally different styles completely.

>> Yeah. I mean, I I would argue that it's impossible not to have it. >> Yeah. But yeah, >> if you paint enough. >> Yeah, >> you you see some people who learned heavily from certain people who and you like for a while there were artists where I was like is that or is that >> do you know what I mean? >> They they so readily absorbed what they were learning that they didn't have their own style yet. And I I think a couple of them don't even have their own style yet. But you're right. Generally speaking, if you're an artist or you're really learning to paint, you will naturally find >> the more you do, the more you the more you develop it. Um, but but but having that exposure is also really cool. But it's also weird to have it from a perspective where I'm not trying to like learn it. You know, if I really somehow just tomorrow I was like, "Right, bam. I quit my job and I'm a professional painter, >> then it would be interesting >> and and maybe those sources would be a bad thing cuz they would taint and they would, you know, too many people and you can't focus." But yeah, I don't know. I think that answers it.

I learn I basically I know a lot more than I did before and I've not studied. It's it's it's it's a subconscious thing. Everyone, that's all of us. At what point in your painting journey do you look back on with the most joy? Breaking up with my wife. [snorts] That's tainted. H know. >> Interesting. I I tend to not look back but forward.

>> Yeah. But he's asked you to look back on. >> What a bullshit answer. >> Do you know what I mean? Just literally his question literally was >> I was waiting for who of you to say that. >> Um >> to be fair, >> I know mine I could literally tell you it right now. Well, I've got a I've got I've got some

uh uh what you call some contestants, some candidates. I'm not 100% sure. >> My favorite time was at Brent Cross. I was sitting on we're getting the bus to Golden Demon. Well, at Games Day and I was painting um my Eldrad Farcia literally on the bus as we went there for Young Bloodoods and I didn't know anyone. I just got on the bus and I fucking loved it. What year was that? >> 99 or 98 or 2000? [snorts] >> Uh 14 uh 99.

>> Yeah. 99. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Was uh >> I mean it's easy to to to remember fondly the the times when we discovered the thing, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. One of I'd say one of my my uh uh candidates would be like my first game state, which is also Well, that was in 2000. >> Yeah. Yeah. And like coming into I guess it was the NIA then and like they had the music, the cabinets, all the Golden Demon entry, seeing people from studio. >> Oh man, it was amazing.

>> Massive display. I didn't come on a coach cuz I came from Sweden, but I saw all the banners that the coaches had in the in the queue outside and the space marine statue. >> It was mind-blowing. Like it wasn't seen anything like it. It really stayed with me. So that would be one. But then there's stuff like, you know, even like like kind of dragging it out a little bit. Even like the first two months I worked for every metal, just the the very start of the whole thing, my first day in every medal, that was incredible. >> That's like Yeah, I could imagine actually.

I think for me what I remember very very fondly is and going inside the store going in the store that weird smell >> of ink and >> sweat and >> that uh it's a very very specific feeling that I remember. I don't remember anything else as fondly as this possibly. [clears throat] >> Do you know what that that has reminded me of my in the Cambridge store where my dad would take me >> and I I never went to there normally.

I'd go there maybe once every month or something. But yeah, I agree. That was amazing as well. My dad would drop me off and go and do some shit that he'd just I don't know, some boring crap and then you'd just be there chatting away to people and loving life and >> looking at the cabinets. Um again and again and again every single time. Things that you've known for years and still. >> Yeah. >> Did you ever get anything in the cabinet by the way when you were young? >> Staying there. >> Yeah. >> No. >> Did you?

>> Oh, did I? Boys fucking hell. Let me tell you a story. I actually think I I never got them back. Like the store closed down and I never went and got it. And he was like I'm or he was Did I lose a whole case? I think I might have even lost a whole black carrying bag. >> Oh shit. >> But even then I was just like life isn't it? And that's me at like >> 15 or 16 like >> it all works out. >> Yeah. Apparently I've had that my whole life. >> Funnily enough, every single picture I see with with you and and hair in your head so older. Um, you are always kind of angry with very very like this.

>> Yeah. Yeah. There's that one photo because I I it was snowing by the way. >> No, there's more that that one. Yeah, that one's very special. But it's not the only one I saw and all of them are like the same. >> No, no. I'll find you photos of me as a kid. I think like I I'm just non-stop smiling. Like every every photo I've got of me as a child, I'm just grinning. Like there's no reason why. I think life's just fucking brilliant and it's always been amazing. >> Um, and that's someone who just got divorced. >> You should instead collect all the pictures that with with you.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I did I did start collecting jizz faces. And I don't literally mean like I'm jizzing and I'm I had a video of it. It's just all the photos of me where I look like I'm jizzing but you're just doing normal day stuff like it. I was cuz really when you realize every face you ever have could be a jizz face like like you go like this. Wait, that could be a jizz face. [laughter] I don't know. You're never smiling when you're jizzing though, are you? It's like I don't know. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I I'll find it. I've got a photo uh a folder. Um I don't remember what the point here was, but yes, the holiday in >> photos of you when you were a child.

Indeed. But there was a reason why. Oh well, fuck it. >> You had photos in the cabinets. Models in the cabinets. >> So I got my models in the cabinet and and and because I used to game there every week, I'd let them he'd put my carrying case behind the um the security, whatever the fuck it's called. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, having I remember this one time cuz I was a bit of a hot shot painter, you know, when I was 13, 14. And I remember [snorts] this guy in the store telling me how to do gems. And I remember that was the first time the first time I can remember in my life where I was like, I'm four, five, six, seven times better than you at this thing that you're trying to tell me how to do. But I'm young enough.

Not young enough. I'm I have enough humility to just listen and ask him questions even to like, oh, but what about this and what about that? But the reality is I didn't I knew I wasn't listening to what anything he was saying, but I didn't want to be like, "Oh yeah, but just come and look at my gem here cuz it's fucking good and yours is absolutely shit." Um, so that was when I knew I was a nice person. [laughter] >> That's how you found out. >> I love the framing of it though. After two hours of listening [laughter] to two hours.

>> Yeah, it was it was >> Thank you, Mr. McVey. I I knew already knew all [laughter] that. >> He He was called Alex. He had a ponytail obviously like 98. >> He would, wouldn't he? Yeah. >> Really nice guy. >> We'll And we're an hour 25 in. We could keep going and draw this out, but I think we should end it on a high. We did no news. Did you have any news? >> Good. See you later. [snorts] >> I don't. >> Yeah, I don't think so. >> I mean, 11 is big. Well, actually, actually, actually actually there is a fucking huge news that we haven't talked about. Um, we may >> other than task masters. That's true.

Uh, we haven't talked about the Armageddon box. >> No, we've not talked about the Armageddon box. >> I'm not I can't do that now. I because I that is going to take you can leave it for the next. But >> I used to have high cheekbones. I don't know if that's age like or cuz I just got fat. Do you know what I mean? >> One or the other, right? >> Or both. >> Yeah. >> It's usually age changes you in

surprising ways. >> Yeah. >> Not you you, but anyone >> like like >> I can only imagine. I I won't, but I I could. Yeah. >> Well, [snorts] yeah, I don't regret saying it, but that is something I could have not said. [laughter] So, do we want to do the Armageddon box next week or that that sound good? Yeah, we'll do we'll do a proper every single model. >> I want to ask about the Das Ma. >> Mhm. >> I started mine. >> Did you fucking really? Holy shit. My suffering was your motivation. You galvanized you.

>> It always is. >> How is it going? Is it fun? >> Yeah. >> Really? Begrudging? I didn't have much of an idea. I didn't have I didn't have a a huge idea, but I was like, I could just But and then I had and then I've now I've got something. >> It's not great. It It's never fucking great, is it? >> What were you going to say right now? You want to put it >> the the self-deprecation or the self uh >> I mean, it's never great, is it? So, why why bother? I mean, that that's what I hear.

We can do a whole episode on selfre deprecation, self defecation and uh >> in my relationship to it >> trying to be more British by literally hating everything I do. >> I mean I find that very empowering honestly is is when you embrace the everything is shit. Nothing is shit. >> Yeah. Everything is great once you know that everything is shit. >> I don't want to go to war. I think actually >> the war. >> Yeah. Like I would not I really don't think I'd enjoy that.

>> No. >> I I would I would fake a very big injury >> or just shoot yourself in the foot >> if it was the only choice. I would do Yes. >> I think I would fake insanity. I think I would do pretty well. >> They might be like, "Yeah, you're perfect cuz you're on the front line, mate. Get in there." >> Yeah. On death company. >> That's true. Fuck. >> I just think war would be really annoying. However, I do also think that um like we do need some cataclysmic thing to rejig society in the current like dating apps. I think this is bad as fuck and just like monetizes like or or somehow like relationships. I think the social media is completely fucking like it fucked our generation and we didn't have it >> like it's it's Martin you are stuck but I do think that these things are and then you've got AI coming in. Oh, you've unfrozen. Like I basically think society is basically dead in in in the Western civilization.

I I I really like societies that like promote family. You know, you all your cousins and your brothers and everything. You're one big unit and your parents and like Argentina, those kind of Latino families, uh Turkish, Greek, like Indian. I basically think the West has done it completely wrong. You you are two parents with kids and you're responsible for all of that. It's way too much. >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> Good. So, uh >> nice are now very good in like especially when you're flex. Fuck. Yeah.

Look at this arm. You little cunt.